GSC/OVIS Law Suit

[kilowatt]

Received a packet today in mail from GSC/OVIS stating they have filed a complaint against FNAWS/ISHA. A lot of legal documents that took 24 pages and 6 counts of charges.

Was this really necessary as Plaintiff is demanding a trial as to all issues. Where is the money going to come from, the hunters I would guess.

There must be an easier way to settle the differences between these groups I would think.

Brian

 

[Outdoordan]

Interesting, what is the grievance?

 

[PleaseDear]

It sucks for the sheep hunting community to have to 'take a side'... between the two sides.....involved.

No doubt as the dirty laundry gets layed out... it will sicken most of us about how much money certain individuals recieve from all the charitable donations many think are going on the mountain....

It was just a matter of time...

Robb

 

[littlebighorn]

I agree!
I received a copy also and tried to read through it to see what it was all about. As far as I can tell, GSCO/OVIS is mad about FNAWS/ISHA using their trademarks and termanology. 3/4 SLAM, etc. They also are mad that FNAWS copies some of their lists of SLAMMERS and uses them in their own publications, etc. I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like they have some legitimate beefs.
HOWEVER, I too am a member of both organizations and it sounds like I am now paying for a law suit against myself!!
I was concerned when GSCO separated from FNAWS for their own convention. Now I am feeling like this was a big money move for them. They state in the law suit that they are a records keeping organization, which is true. But now I am seeing that they have little interest in "putting sheep on the mountain"! Their only goal is to recognize sheep hunters and they want FNAWS to butt out!
I'm afraid they have received my last check!

 

[NVBighorn]

I also understand it's at least partly about the use of phrases that OVIS/GSC feels are theirs and copyrighted. Phrases like Grand Slam and World Slam. While that may be true in this crazy legal system we have in this country I think it's a shame that two groups that should be supporting the same goals will use hunters dollars to fight each other. What a waste. I think it's a black eye. Guess that's why I choose support local "grass roots" (hope that's not copyrighted) organizations.

 

[martini]

Dennis Campbell= OVERSIZED EGO

And it is true, FNAWS is putting sheep on the mountains, and OVIS is taking them off!

 

[PleaseDear]

OVERSIZED EGO...... hell that goes for any of the BOD on both orgs!

Robb

 

[HornedToad]

I have been a "life member" of both FNAWS and GSC for many years.

It has seemed strange to me that FNAWS has continued to promote several of the popular innovations brought in by GSC, such as the 3/4 Slam drawing, and as such, GSC appears to have a point in its complaint.

It is my understanding, however, that many of the leaders at FNAWS are still sore at Dennis Campbell for using the GSC proposed "convention-merger" several years ago as a cover for
"going to school" on FNAWS' process for putting on its convention. Campbell was able to see the entire process from the inside, includng having access to distribution lists, and he copied everything for his competing GSC/OVIS convention.

It has been my view that the sheep hunting/conservation world would be better off with one organization, rather than two competing organizations (one could have predicted that the two would end up in litigation!). I have never heard a decent explanation from Dennis Campbell as to why GSC "had to have" its own convention. And if Campbell is upset that FNAWS is using some of his "Marks", then perhaps FNAWS would have a similar complaint that GSC had never held a convention of any sort, prior to Campbell's "going to school" on FNAWS.

I am a life member of both FNAWS and GSC, and will remain a member of both, but I have continued to attend the FNAWS convention, and I don't attend GSC.

HornedToad

 

[Cozmo8]

My views are the same as above. Why are our dollars going for a lawsiut and not sheep? I am a member of both organizations and believe from the packet of info that FNAWS probaby has not maintained it's agreement. With that being said I will not continue to be a member of GSC is they do not limit this lawsuit. In other words drop it when FNAWS complies or not pursue to "enth" degree. I am more aligned with FNAWS but I see both sides.

Now I think this is a perfect time for FNAWS to develop some different achievement levels for their hunters. The "Grand Slam (GS)" (I hope GSC does not sue me for using their trademark here, ha ha ha) is so hard to get and we are not adopting young hunters into the sport like we need to. The average age of a big game hunter is 42 and going up. I bet the average age of a FNAWS member is oloder than 42. I have taken a dall and Rocky, I probably will never ever draw a desert, I cannot afford it or a stone so like many others there is no way to achieve the GS. I am working for what I call the "Poormanslam" which is four of any North American sheep. As any of you that have hunted sheep know even 4 sheep can consume vasts amounts of time and money. While I realize Poormanslam is not politically correct FNAWS could come up with some sort of other terms or phrases. By the way do not try to take my Poormanslam phrase I have already trademarked it ha,ha,ha. We need to get more young people involved in sheep and this might be a good opportunity.

 

[littlebighorn]

I like your thinking Coz.
I grew up reading Jack O'Connor and he never liked the idea of the Grand Slam in the first place, even though I think he is listed in GSCO as number 1. I recall reading him saying something to the effect that the Grand Slam cheapened the whole idea of sheep hunting. It certainly has made it a rich man's dream.
I am sure Jack is rolling over in his grave over this one!

 

[kilbuc]

Sad, realy sad. Egos are overriding common sense. I like Cosmo8's idea of the "poormanslam" concept. Maybe call it a "sheep slam"(I won't sue if you use the term....LOL".

Cosmo8..good luck on your quest.

from the "Heartland of Wyoming"

 

[dwalton]

Cozmo,

After talking with and e-mailing Ray Lee about things, I can tell you that FNAWS isn't really concerned with recruiting younger people. They tried that and realized that they didn't make enough money. If you read one of his statements about last year's convention, he likened the MDF as the farm club, until the hunters matured and were in a financial position to join the "major league" (FNAWS). FNAWS knows that it takes a specific demographic to be a sheep hunter these days and that seems to be their main focus.

As for the age thing, I believe GSCO did a member survey. If I remember correctly, slightly over half of the members were 50 and over. I'm sure, judging what I saw in Reno, FNAWS is similar. The photos of ISHA's party looked like its median age was 60. History has shown that when organizations become too exclusive, they tend to lose significance and fade away. Anyone remember what a huge deal the One-Shot Antelope Hunt used to be?

I agree on the the 4-ham (no copyright infringement) thing. Unless you have a very, very large sum of disposable income, or an incredible stroke of luck most likely a hunter will never take all 4 sheep. With the current point systems in place, most younger hunters will face even steeper odds. Kind of makes it even tougher to recruit a new sheep hunter. Wish I had some answers to these problems.

 

[Cozmo8]

I think Jack O'Connor was even quoted as saying the he wishes he had never even mentioned the concept of the Grand Slam.

You are right they are probably not intertested in gaining "young members" but at some point the financial aspect and limited opportunity of sheep hunting will become so great that fewer and fewer hunters will be able afford even one hunt. The MDF may be the farm club but the farm club population is getting smaller and smaller. You then have fewer players to join the major league. They may not care because we may not see it in our lifetimes but eventually it is going to catch up to the organization.

 

[NVBighorn]

Cosmo8, think your "poormanslam" is too un-PC. I was thinking "economically disadvantaged slam" but then after reading dwalton's post I realize it's more like "financially average slam". The "financially average" guy will not achieve a 4 legged slam if he has not done it already. At least not most of us. The average guy will be darn lucky to draw one sheep tag in his lifetime. I say "average" knowing a bunch of guys who have more than one sheep but also knowing a ton more still waiting for the first. I had to laugh a while back when I suggested to a grand slam owner that since more and more people and states are recognizing the California bighorn as a different subspecies that maybe the term grand slam should be changed to FIVE sheep (desert, Rocky, Dall, Stone AND California). Wow, did I get an a$$ chewing. Of course I did. That would mean a ton of slammers would need to start over.

Personally I want to hunt sheep as often as I can. I may never fill a slam. I don't really mind that. I would be happy to hunt sheep three or four times in my lifetime and never have a GSCO number than to know I got it but spent my kids (or grand kids) college fund or inheritance getting it.

 

[Cozmo8]

NVBighorn,

Another wrench in the Grand Slam concept is the fact that where the Dall and Stone overlap there is getting to be a high rate of Fannin's. Some "expert's" claim that eventually there will be few Dall's and a lot of Fannin's. This would make it a little easier to add the Stone/Fannin to the portfolio.