Grizzlys
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mightyhunter
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The process is supposed to start for delisting in 2014. The back and forth will be extensive. The lawsuits will start and may drag on for years. I think this fight will make the wolf wars look small. With the 2013 decision made in the Washington D.C. Federal District Court, don't be surprised if the eco-elites file their lawsuits in the federal court in Washington D.C.
You may be hunting them nfh in another 5 to 10 years. I would be surprised if hunting was allowed any sooner than that.
You may be hunting them nfh in another 5 to 10 years. I would be surprised if hunting was allowed any sooner than that.
>The process is supposed to start
>for delisting in 2014. The
>back and forth will be
>extensive. The lawsuits will start
>and may drag on for
>years. I think this fight
>will make the wolf wars
>look small. With the 2013
>decision made in the Washington
>D.C. Federal District Court, don't
>be surprised if the eco-elites
>file their lawsuits in the
>federal court in Washington D.C.
>
>
>You may be hunting them nfh
>in another 5 to 10
>years. I would be surprised
>if hunting was allowed any
>sooner than that.
***I'm hoping you're wrong, but am afraid that you are pretty accurate on that assessment!
>for delisting in 2014. The
>back and forth will be
>extensive. The lawsuits will start
>and may drag on for
>years. I think this fight
>will make the wolf wars
>look small. With the 2013
>decision made in the Washington
>D.C. Federal District Court, don't
>be surprised if the eco-elites
>file their lawsuits in the
>federal court in Washington D.C.
>
>
>You may be hunting them nfh
>in another 5 to 10
>years. I would be surprised
>if hunting was allowed any
>sooner than that.
***I'm hoping you're wrong, but am afraid that you are pretty accurate on that assessment!
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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Currently projected to cost a fellow hunter that has sent numerous Emails and contacted Senator's----to help Wyo. get them huntable----delisted........
Why do those that support ya get so screwed with the non-ressy Grizz draw fee of $6,500.00 vs ressy fee's......??
Plus the Wilderness non-ressy----- need a guide...toss in another cost of what ~~~ $3,500---$5,000 extra fee.....'Wilderness Guide fee'
Do they bring in the non-ressy Grizz draw tag type Grizzz from another state or something and we need to cover that extra cost??
Wyo is not Alaska----just sayin'....lower 48 type thinking here---
Happy Memorial Day Holiday all----be safe for sure....
Robb
Why do those that support ya get so screwed with the non-ressy Grizz draw fee of $6,500.00 vs ressy fee's......??
Plus the Wilderness non-ressy----- need a guide...toss in another cost of what ~~~ $3,500---$5,000 extra fee.....'Wilderness Guide fee'
Do they bring in the non-ressy Grizz draw tag type Grizzz from another state or something and we need to cover that extra cost??
Wyo is not Alaska----just sayin'....lower 48 type thinking here---
Happy Memorial Day Holiday all----be safe for sure....
Robb
BuzzH
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Robb,
There wont be many NR tags issued, not many tags at all for the first few years.
I would expect WY will have no trouble selling what few griz tags they issue to NR's at $6500. A lower-48 griz will be a rare trophy.
I'm being more optimistic with the griz delisting. I just dont think theres much more that can be challenged at this point. The populations are high, the WB Pine issue is solved, the cutthroat issue is solved.
The anti's are going to have to come up with something as they've already over-played their hand.
There wont be many NR tags issued, not many tags at all for the first few years.
I would expect WY will have no trouble selling what few griz tags they issue to NR's at $6500. A lower-48 griz will be a rare trophy.
I'm being more optimistic with the griz delisting. I just dont think theres much more that can be challenged at this point. The populations are high, the WB Pine issue is solved, the cutthroat issue is solved.
The anti's are going to have to come up with something as they've already over-played their hand.
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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No doubt there will be few tags for draw and I will be in line with the rest @ $6,500.00......that is just how it is.
I hope it is closer to 3 years than 10 though!!
Robb
I hope it is closer to 3 years than 10 though!!
Robb
mightyhunter
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I am not as optimistic as Buzz H. The money that can be raised by the eco-elites and their groups in an attempt to delay the delisting of the grizzly bears is huge. If the white bark pine nuts aren't the flavor of the month, they will find something else. Don't be surprised if they argue that the recent delisting and hunting of the wolf has had an adverse impact on grizzly populations.
Also, no one should underestimate the significance of the case waiting for decision in Washington D.C. on the Wyoming Wolf Plan (Defenders of Wildlife v. Salazar). For the most part in the wolf wars, the litigation was confined to Wyoming and Montana. That case allowed the battle to be waged in federal court in Washington D.C. when the judge determined that the case was of substantial national importance. Now some will say, that it doesn't matter where the war is waged. Unfortunately it does matter where the cases are heard. There are few if any moderate judges sitting in the federal district court in Washington D.C. I laugh when I hear people say that the "law is the law" and "the facts are the facts". The grizzly delisting war will be waged less on facts and mostly on emotion.
By the way, just a few weeks ago the Wyoming Fish and Game was trying to trap some grizzly bears just a few miles from my home in Clark. It seems some idiot thought it was a good idea to shoot and dump a sick horse on the banks of the Clarks Fork of the Yellowstone right next to a popular Sportsman's Access. They didn't catch the bears and ended up hauling the horse carcass off. These bears were not in the mountains but in a lowland area. They trapped a couple of grizzly bears out of the same area just a few years ago. As the bears start wandering into lower, more human populated areas,the chance for bear attacks increases greatly. With the high snowpack in the backcountry here, and tourist season upon us, I anticipate an increase in human and grizzly bear encounters in NW Wyoming this year. Be careful out there.
just sayin... mh
Also, no one should underestimate the significance of the case waiting for decision in Washington D.C. on the Wyoming Wolf Plan (Defenders of Wildlife v. Salazar). For the most part in the wolf wars, the litigation was confined to Wyoming and Montana. That case allowed the battle to be waged in federal court in Washington D.C. when the judge determined that the case was of substantial national importance. Now some will say, that it doesn't matter where the war is waged. Unfortunately it does matter where the cases are heard. There are few if any moderate judges sitting in the federal district court in Washington D.C. I laugh when I hear people say that the "law is the law" and "the facts are the facts". The grizzly delisting war will be waged less on facts and mostly on emotion.
By the way, just a few weeks ago the Wyoming Fish and Game was trying to trap some grizzly bears just a few miles from my home in Clark. It seems some idiot thought it was a good idea to shoot and dump a sick horse on the banks of the Clarks Fork of the Yellowstone right next to a popular Sportsman's Access. They didn't catch the bears and ended up hauling the horse carcass off. These bears were not in the mountains but in a lowland area. They trapped a couple of grizzly bears out of the same area just a few years ago. As the bears start wandering into lower, more human populated areas,the chance for bear attacks increases greatly. With the high snowpack in the backcountry here, and tourist season upon us, I anticipate an increase in human and grizzly bear encounters in NW Wyoming this year. Be careful out there.
just sayin... mh
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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I agree with your fear of the unknown mh....
Always a big time factor come the final decision----
If it wasn't for you, Buzz, jm77, (in his own special way wolfhunter!!haha) and the others in your state.....many of us would be on the fence for knowledge...
Thanks man!
Robb
Always a big time factor come the final decision----
If it wasn't for you, Buzz, jm77, (in his own special way wolfhunter!!haha) and the others in your state.....many of us would be on the fence for knowledge...
Thanks man!
Robb
BuzzH
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MH,
I disagree again, you can file a lawsuit on emotion, but you cant win a case with same.
Whats going to matter in any court is the data. This isnt 1960 anymore.
There is population data that is better than ever, with the use of DNA. The WBP issue has been proven to be a non-issue, yellowstone cutthroat in regard to grizzly bears, non-issue.
I dont see a way to stop the delisting on anything based on science. The biologists are in agreement that the species is recovered, the science defends that position.
This one wont be as tough as the wolf delisting, the state of Wyoming may not impede delisting with grizzly dual classification. That was the main hang-up (and still is) regarding the wolves.
Slam dunk...IMO.
I disagree again, you can file a lawsuit on emotion, but you cant win a case with same.
Whats going to matter in any court is the data. This isnt 1960 anymore.
There is population data that is better than ever, with the use of DNA. The WBP issue has been proven to be a non-issue, yellowstone cutthroat in regard to grizzly bears, non-issue.
I dont see a way to stop the delisting on anything based on science. The biologists are in agreement that the species is recovered, the science defends that position.
This one wont be as tough as the wolf delisting, the state of Wyoming may not impede delisting with grizzly dual classification. That was the main hang-up (and still is) regarding the wolves.
Slam dunk...IMO.
mightyhunter
Very Active Member
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Buzz H,
I hope you are right.
You stated that "the science defends that position" (delisting). The suggestion that science can't be manipulated seems to ignore just about everything I have witnessed in the court system over the years. There are many professional expert witnesses in the eco-elite camp that will reach a conclusion (no delisting) and later come up with the scientific reason behind that decision. Remember, they are not paid to say delisting is the correct conclusion.
My feeling is the delisting will be challenged through the trickle theory of litigation. All the numerous eco-elite groups will file a suit here and file a suit there. With the Washington D.C. decision they can now have the case heard in Wyoming, Montana or in D.C. Federal District Court. The cases will be dragged out over time. Sure, delisting may be obtained but later snatched away by some sympathetic judge. Sound familiar.
Slam Dunk, I don't think so. Too much money involved and too many concerned citizens who know nothing about the issue. I can just imagine the comments received from the public when delisting comes up. Again, I hope you are right. Only time will tell as this story unfolds.
I am out of here for a few days so battle on.
just sayin...mh
I hope you are right.
You stated that "the science defends that position" (delisting). The suggestion that science can't be manipulated seems to ignore just about everything I have witnessed in the court system over the years. There are many professional expert witnesses in the eco-elite camp that will reach a conclusion (no delisting) and later come up with the scientific reason behind that decision. Remember, they are not paid to say delisting is the correct conclusion.
My feeling is the delisting will be challenged through the trickle theory of litigation. All the numerous eco-elite groups will file a suit here and file a suit there. With the Washington D.C. decision they can now have the case heard in Wyoming, Montana or in D.C. Federal District Court. The cases will be dragged out over time. Sure, delisting may be obtained but later snatched away by some sympathetic judge. Sound familiar.
Slam Dunk, I don't think so. Too much money involved and too many concerned citizens who know nothing about the issue. I can just imagine the comments received from the public when delisting comes up. Again, I hope you are right. Only time will tell as this story unfolds.
I am out of here for a few days so battle on.
just sayin...mh
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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Hang in there fella's as at least you are up front/sharing about everything with the Grizzz De-listing....
Who knows how much backstabbing Bobbette & $WF-Wyo are doing behind everyone's honest efforts.
Thanks again---
Robb
Who knows how much backstabbing Bobbette & $WF-Wyo are doing behind everyone's honest efforts.
Thanks again---
Robb
mightyhunter
Very Active Member
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An interesting read.
http://missoulian.com/news/state-an...cle_a3a04302-f979-11e3-888f-001a4bcf887a.html
http://missoulian.com/news/state-an...cle_a3a04302-f979-11e3-888f-001a4bcf887a.html
Thanks for the update MH! I would surmize that the bears will be delisted witin the next year or so since they already were in 2007 until a Judge did his thing with a reversal using the white pine bark cones as the reason. Now that the study since then has quashed that reason and the bears continue to reproduce and the number s are still going up there should be no reason not to delist and let the individual states take over.
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