Giuliani gets it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

202typical

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Giuliani Warns on PLO State
Stance Puts Daylight Between Him and Rice

By ELI LAKE
Staff Reporter of the Sun
August 15, 2007

WASHINGTON ?-- In a sweeping repudiation of the conventional wisdom that America's war on terrorism must address Palestinian Arab national grievances, the leading Republican contender for the presidency is warning of the dangers of pressing too soon for Palestinian statehood and is asserting that Israeli security is a "permanent feature of our foreign policy."

"Too much emphasis has been placed on brokering negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians ?-- negotiations that bring up the same issues again and again," Mayor Giuliani writes in an essay published yesterday in Foreign Affairs. "It is not in the interest of the United States, at a time when it is being threatened by Islamist terrorists, to assist the creation of another state that will support terrorism."

In some of the boldest language on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict used thus far by any presidential candidate, Mr. Giuliani writes: "Palestinian statehood will have to be earned through sustained good governance, a clear commitment to fighting terrorism, and a willingness to live in peace with Israel."

That language appears to be a direct shot at President Bush and Secretary of State Rice, who are making just such a push for final status negotiations between President Abbas and Prime Minister Olmert in September, despite Hamas's takeover of Gaza in June.

The former mayor's vision for Israeli-Palestinian negotiations is also a repudiation of the approach of the Baker-Hamilton Commission, a panel on which Mr. Giuliani served briefly. In its final recommendations on Iraq policy in December 2006, the commission urged America not only to re-engage in the peace process, but also to explore ways for Israel to cede the Golan Heights to Syria.

Mr. Giuliani's senior foreign policy adviser, Charles Hill, said yesterday that the Bush administration's current push to forge a peace deal between the Palestinian Authority president and the Israeli prime minister may be "risking too much."

"It looks as though they are trying to get right at the most difficult issues right away and go to the road map," Mr. Hill said in a telephone interview from his office at Yale University, where he lectures on international studies. "It has a Palestinian state coming into being before the negotiations are completed. That is risking too much. We do not want another failure ?-- another failure and a terrorist haven."

Mr. Giuliani is not opposed in principle to a Palestinian state or two-state solution, Mr. Hill said. But he added: "We have one more part of the region given over to terrorism. It is not that we are opposed to an outcome there, but to go to final status talks without seeing the Palestinian political and security process earn its way, at least minimally, in a responsible way, it doesn't make any sense."

Mr. Giuliani's emphasis on creating free institutions in non-democratic states before elections mirrors that of a former Soviet dissident and Israeli legislator, Natan Sharansky. Mr. Sharansky was one of the few Israelis to criticize both the Oslo process in the 1990s, for empowering the late Yasser Arafat, and the Bush administration's approach after 2002, for emphasizing the elections that ultimately led to the empowerment of Hamas.

Mr. Giuliani's cautious stance on elections is evident in his writings on Iraq and Afghanistan in Foreign Affairs. He writes that he anticipates that American soldiers will be fighting terrorists in the two countries for the foreseeable future and that the defeat of Al Qaeda is a laudable goal.

But missing from his definition of success in Iraq and Afghanistan are consecutive elections, which the Bush administration has stressed. "We must be under no illusions that either Iraq or Afghanistan will quickly attain the levels of peace and security enjoyed in the developed world today," the former mayor writes. "Our aim should be to help them build accountable, functioning governments that can serve the needs of their populations, reduce violence within their borders, and eliminate the export of terror."

Mr. Hill went further yesterday, saying he does not expect that Mr. Giuliani, if he becomes president, would support Iraqi national elections, scheduled for 2009, if it appeared that they would empower Islamist terrorist parties and others with their own private armies. "We would have to look at the situation at that time," he said.

While Mr. Giuliani's reluctance to support elections before building strong courts and transparent ministries may seem to put him closer to some of his Democratic rivals for the White House, he differs from them in his expectations for the United Nations. He writes in Foreign Affairs that America should seek to strengthen the "international system," by which he means multilateral and regional organizations, as a front line defense against terrorism. But he cautions that America should have "realistic" expectations about the efficacy of the United Nations. "The organization can be useful for some humanitarian and peacekeeping functions, but we should not expect much more of it," he writes. In the resolution of conflicts, the United Nations has proved itself "irrelevant," he writes, and the institution has failed to combat terrorism or human rights abuses.

Mr. Hill expanded on this theme yesterday, saying a Giuliani administration would seek to reform the United Nations but that it would not be a veto on American action. "The U.N. is going to have to shape itself up or else other ways will have to be found," he said. "That can be unilaterally, bilaterally, with other entities that may come into being."

Major presidential candidates have taken to the pages of Foreign Affairs, the scholarly journal associated with the Council on Foreign Relations, in recent years as a way to outline their prospective foreign policy. Earlier this year, Senator Obama, a Democrat of Illinois, and a former Massachusetts governor, Mitt Romney, wrote about their foreign policy for the journal.

Essays in Foreign Affairs have not always been a road map to what an administration will end up doing, however. In 2000, Ms. Rice wrote that Mr. Bush would not seek to rebuild nations the way President Clinton had. Mr. Bush is now engaged in rebuilding two countries, Afghanistan and Iraq.
 
Yes me too. He is hard on security, fiscally conservative, yet socially liberal. I will take the first two and forgive him the last one. He understands what needs to be done to keep us safe from the islamofacist.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-07 AT 03:37PM (MST)[p]He sure does, but the question is where?

Looks like a perfect candidate for the republican party, he fits the republicans conservative style to a tee, heck he's lived with men who where said to be gay, he's been less than honest to his past wives, I wonder if, like Bush, he's been convicted of drunk driving or possession of cocaine, or maybe he ran away from the guard too and never really served, I'll say this, you neoconservatives really know how to pick-em!


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Thank You T that gave me a great laugh after a hard day. I'm sure incoming will arrive shortly. Question? Why was it such a huge moral issue when Clinton cheated on Hillbillery and it isn't that big of a deal what Giulani did? Yes I know Clinton lied to Congress a big deal to me. However most of my neocon friends still hate Clinton the most for a B.J. in the White House and not the perjury to Congress. I live in the heart of the most conservative area of the U.S. and they can't explain it to me. It appears to me they are both cheaters and liers certainly neither my selection for the presidency.
 
First of all can either T or Corn define Neoconservative. Please spare me the Wickapedia crap.

I never said dude (Gulliani not Hdude) was perfect. No man is. I think if we as a nation do not get over husband and wife infedelities we will never get good candidates to run for the Whitehouse. look at the men that founded this nation. None were completely loyal to their wives, yet they were masters of running this country and laying the foundation for what it is today. I willing to look past that for a candidate that is strong on National Security. Show me one stronger please.

Personnally I have never said anything on this board about Clinton getting BJ. I could care less. Well except for the fact that he could have chosen a better looking intern. But that is beside the point. The part that I did not like was the blatant lie about the trist and the fact that he worked to find her another job pull strings ect....The other thing that is alarming is Clinton is/was a serial abuser of women. That is a person of extreem low character.
 
What a stupid thing to say, Giulianni sounds dumber than Bush. who'ld have thought that possible, 90% of our problems in the middle east can be solved if we solve the Israel-Palistine problem. no wonder Giulianni wasn't popular in NY, I thought he was smarter than that. the more he talks the closer Hillary is to the whitehouse. why can't the republicans pull their head out and get with it, he just lost my primary vote.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-07 AT 05:55PM (MST)[p]In order to get a problem solved you have to parties interested in solving it. Neither the Israeli or Palestinian could afford to bury the hatchet. If the conflict was over the Israeli's lose alot of U.S. money and support.

The Palestinians will not end there conflict with Israel, the Palestinian leaders must have the Israeli's to point as the problem. They do not want to have to face their own people. Imagine if the Palestinian Authority didn't have Israel to blame all their problems on.

No way we can or will solve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. We could end all support of Israel and pay all the bils the Palestinian incur and they would still hate both us and Israel.

Nemont
 
neocon is just a word for new conservative, and it's similar to how orielly and all the right wing media portrays all dems as the far left etc.

as for the rest of your reply 02, i'm with you and I've always said the same thing. I agree. I just cant see how the right would ever support a guy who so far from their moral beliefs as to almost be on a different planet altogether. . .
 
True, but if we pay them good enough though they may hate us they might tolerate us because we're the goose who lays the golden egg. in a way it's like paying extorsion but on the other hand we took it upon ourselves to boot the Palistinians out of their county and give it to the Jews, some price should be expected for that. buy bombs and spill American and Arab blood forever or make the Palistinians and Israelis a deal they cant refuse, it'll be cheaper in the long run. there is no simple or cheap solution to this mess but it must be a top priority for any American leader, and it will be.
 
202 I'm with you. Many of the founding fathers had mistresses, that certainly isn't a criteria for the presidency. Just don't feed me the crap that republicans represent the party of morality. You may not but many do with the family first and anti gay talk. I really could care less Giuliani has lived with men reputed to be gay. #1 for me is can he make intelligent decisions back on the right path. Some of his campaign comments in the last few weeks do bother me, but I haven't ruled out voting for him yet.
 
"Palestinian statehood will have to be earned through sustained good governance, a clear commitment to fighting terrorism, and a willingness to live in peace with Israel."

One of the comments I think is totally unrealistic, this will not happen.
 
It makes you wonder, Giuliani cheated on his wives, lived with gay guys, was married to his 2nd cousin ( he thought she was a 3rd cousin though ????.. yuck ), supported abortion rights, supported gun control, and had an approval rating in NYC of less than 50% . so are the republicans getting more tolerant or are they this desparate? sounds like a real moral warrior doesn't he. sad part is he's probably one of the better candidates.
 
" neocon is just a word for new conservative, and it's similar to how orielly and all the right wing media portrays all dems as the far left etc."

Wrong

A neoconservative (colloquially, neocon) is a former liberal who calls himself a conservative. Neoconservatives favor globalism, downplay religious values, and often disagree with conservatives on key social issues like abortion and homosexuality.

Neo-conservatism was developed by a group of intellectuals graduated from the City College of New York in the late 1930's, a group that includes Irving Kristol, Daniel Bell and Nathan Glazer.[1] Many of this group came to despise the counterculture of the 1960's and what they felt was a growing "anti-Americanism" among many baby boomers. And during the cold war era, many of them came to realize the evil of the Stalinist regime.[2] Kristol described a neoconservative as a "liberal mugged by reality". The development of neo-conservatism was strongly influenced by the work of German philosopher Leo Strauss and Marxist theorist Leon Trotsky. Irving Kristol himself was once a member of the 4th international.

A more cynical view is that neoconservatives lacked any chance for power within the Democratic Party or among liberals, who are already quite crowded with experienced, educated influence-seekers. Neoconservatives have an easier time reaching powerful positions by coming over to the Republican Party, much as other former Democrats (e.g. Michael Bloomberg) have become Republicans solely to advance their own ambition.

The neoconservative movement is atheistic and opposed to religious conservatives on most moral issues.
 

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