Gila Avg Bulls

[Hunt4more]

Monster Muley members... For the Gila National Forest, Wilderness, etc, how big is the average 6x6 bull? What would the average bull score? If we are talking top 10% of bulls what would that look like? What are your expectations for the bow season? Thanks

 

[JFWRC]

The Gila Forest covers many different units and each unit has its pros and cons. I have noted a significant increase in the number of applicants this year for the wilderness (16B) probably due to the thought that the fire in 2012 will load it up.......which it could do very easily.

To your question....it would be MY GUESS that the AVERAGE on the TOP 10% of bulls harvested would be 335-340ish. I am of course considering that there are some pigs taken every year. You did ask for AVERAGE of the Top 10%.

Water is a big issue this year. I have talked to a friend of mine that lives smack dab in the middle of A. He is hauling water to his headquarters every other day......not good. He said the grass is in good shape but tank water is a big problem. He thinks protein levels in grass will be good....translating into normal antler growth......However, the key will be water. Ranchers in 16C 16D and 16E will be watering from their water systems to cattle which will clearly be used by elk and other wildlife in 2013. I just hope they will keep the systems on.

I expect that for the bow season.....hunts will be as usual......"lots of fun" if your lucky enough to draw a tag.

We all pray for moisture.......should we get a decent monsoon rain pattern in 2013, elk will spread out as usual. If we don't they will be concentrated within range of water.

Good luck!

Jim
www.newmexicobiggamehunting.com

 

[STOMPER]

I would say that for the average non guided hunter that knows the area fairly well that the average bull would be 340 to 350. I would say the average for the top 10 percent would be about 370. I know this year I had a tag for unit 34 and passed two bulls over 360. The week before the 3rd unit 15 muzzy hunt I had found a dozen bulls over 340 and 3 over the 370 mark and one over the 400 mark.

I usually hunt unit 15 and I haven't had a year where I didn't pass up at least one 350 bull. I will be going back next year and hopefully get a 390 or better bull. I definitely know where 3 are its just a matter of timing at this point. I am sure I will have an opportunity at bulls over 350 but since I already have a wall full I will pass anything under 375. Not that I don't get excited but due to the fact my wife gets mader and madder everytime I bring back just another so called average bull because I love my racks. She just doesn't understand.

Anyways, I hope this helps.

 

[BigTom]

Average bull harvested is about 320

Top 10% would score at 350 with the Toad thrown in there (370+)

 

[oilcan]

Now i know why i can't draw one of those tags

 

[nmhntr]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-13 AT 04:52AM (MST)[p]The Pope & Young record book does not support the claim of 330 - 350 average bulls. The minimum score for P&Y is 260 so smaller bulls don't even count for the averages. The average size of elk makes P&Y is around 270-280 from Catron county (Gila). Don't know what exactly has caused the average scores to drop, my guess is that it is due to high powered rifles, three archery seasons with people sitting on all the water holes, wolves, and tons of professional hunting guides harvest nice quality elk before they can mature to be huge bulls. Some big bulls (350-375) still come off big private ranches like the "Double H" that RMEF recently sold. Those bulls are able to live their entire life on the ranch with minimal hunting pressure.

The quality in the Gila isn't what it was in the 1990s. In my opinion, there is still way too much hype with the Gila.

Edit: I also bet that modern equipment like laser range finders and 300ft/sec+ bows have helped increase the effectiveness of the harvests.

 

[leftturnabq]

I'd have to say JFWRC has it pretty much nailed. The average top 10% in the Gila is probably around 340". With the overall average 6x6 scoring somewhere between 300"-320"...sorry, but I do not believe that 270"-280" 6x6 bulls are the average down there despite P&Y entries based on what I've seen.

There are 350"+ bulls on public land, but it should pretty much go without saying that they are definitely harder to find than the average bull. The potentitial definitely still exists, but the average hunter is usually more than willing to pull the trigger on the average Gila bull.

 

[1FastGambler]

Jim & nmhntr are both right. I'm a measurer for both P&Y & B&C.

It is extremely rare to see a bull make either the awards book (360 min) or the all time B&C book (375 min) from any of the Gila counties/units. Less than one per year is the average I beleive for the last decade.

The reputation for the Gila far exceeds reality. Does that mean that it sucks? No, not at all. It just means that the number of big bulls in reality does not stand up to it's reputation.

However, it is my most favorite place in the world. Not because there are monster bulls behind every tree, no sir. I love the Gila, specifically the 16's for many other reasons.

2012 was the first time I've hunted in 15. It was actually my son who had the late December bull tag. He has an issue with his legs which prevents him from walking very far, so that kept of from getting into some of the places I wanted to take him. We didn't find many bulls and the ones we did find were dinks. BUT... I will say that I've never seen a place with more rubs and sign of bulls & big bulls to boot.

I think Stinky might not be blowing smoke and I am starting to beleive that unit 15 is truly where it's at for high numbers of big bulls.

Jim's comments about the Wilderness (16B) hit home also. I have no doubt that the Wilderness will be the BOMB in the next coming years!

Anyone got a few good mules for sale?

 

[DoeNob]

It ain't what it used to be, I'm applying in other areas of the state now.

 

[leftturnabq]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-13 AT 02:33PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-13 AT 02:33?PM (MST)

So how many bulls are actually even brought in for official scoring versus how many are harvested?

I personally would never bother unless I took a bull that I really thought might make the all-time.


If we're really going to get into score stuff, according to records, what are the actual averages today versus 10, 20, 30, or more years ago? Or whenever it was whatever it used to be?

 

[Hunt4more]

I'm looking for a 330"+/- bull, if he's bigger I'll try and calm the nerves and i'll take the xtra bone. From what I gather from all the posts, without giving away where I am putting in, I would say 330"+/- is a realistic possibility. Thank you.

 

[massivecoues]

I don't think many people score their bulls and put them in the books so thats why you dont see as many from the Gila. For example my brother has killed two bulls over 350 P&Y in the past 3 years and neither one of them were ever entered. You can kill a 350 bull in any of the gila units on any hunt. You just have to put in the time to find the bulls and hunt hard! IMO

 

[leftturnabq]

BeastN,

330"+/- is a very realistic possibility if you know what you are looking at and are willing hold out for the right bull. In the past 10 years we have taken 3 bulls that fit your criteria, and know of bigger taken. Every year we've hunted down there we've seen larger bulls than that, but just could not close the deal.

Good luck.
Dave