Gangs

H

huntindude

Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-07 AT 09:04PM (MST)[p] Why do we put up with gangs on American streets? the cops know who they are and what they do,there's seldom a time they couldn't bust them for something but they don't seem to be a priority.

Today in Portland a 71 year old man was beaten nearly to death with a baseball bat by a 15 year old gang member while he waited at a mass transit station. cops had him arrested in short order because they knew what gang it was where they hung out, he was so unconcerned he was only blocks away. they say it was his initiation to the gang.

This isn't a lib or conservative thing it's a lack of interest thing, we don't have to put up with it but we do, why? as far as I'm concerned this is domestic terrorism. that kid would be staked to an ant hill if I had my way, he knew full well what he was doing and he knows he'll get a slap on the wrist from us and a pat on the back from his hommies ( is that how you spell it?). I'm sick of hearing about this crap, train special teams and arm them for war. if the gangs resist waste them, whatever it takes it needs to end.
 
Pull out of portland because we can't win this thing. Portland is just a swamp anyway with no oil to speak of or any stratigic value.


Ransom
 
Dude sorry about the last post. Must have been my doppleganger.
I actually agreed with most of your post, may wonders never cease.


Ransom
 
Dude,

Gangs are a high priority for the police, but unfortunately in todays society, the criminals outnumber the police by a large margin. Therefore, most police forces are forced to take a reactive approach to gang violence rather than a proactive approach. Most agencies would LOVE to be more proactive on crime, but call load and man power most the time doesnt allow it. That is why you see specialty units assigned to specific problems, ie gang, drugs, etc., but unforunately you have a ver small percentage of the police force trying to be proactive on a problem that causes a large percentage of the crime.
 
Remember.....hands off the wetbacks......and most of them are wet in my area. "they just come here to work" remember.

JB
 
Agreed! Dude how the hell are you? I hope everything is going great in Dudeland. I will bet that gangs or gang mentality is as old as humankind (approx. 6,000 years). I used to share your view that these tribal acts of manhood should be acknowledged as domestic terror. But it's difficult to compare this one on one act to say..Timothy McVeigh.

I live not too far from the 1986 Murder Capitol of the U.S. East Palo Alto. A diverse city hahaha that was 60% Black, 30% Hispanic, 8% Pacific Islander, 1% Asian, and 1% white. When the F.B.I. jumped in with joint city task forces they arrested over 800 known gang members over a 9 month period. The murder rate dropped by 90%, along with other violent crimes and robberies in the neighboring cities. Now East Palo Alto has seen a major shift in it's racial demographic and property values have increased 600-800% in the last 20 years.

So when the strong arm of the law flexes I do believe they can clean up the streets. I also believe that a vast majority of the gang members simply relocated to outlying areas like Oakland/Hayward and Sacramento/Stockton.

I have 1 viable solution. Reinstitute chain gangs and clean up our interstate highway and national park system. Since these individuals have a propensity for ganglife I say reward them and chain them to other enemy gang members for 12 hours a day. Keep them supplied with tools, whether it's cleaning or ditch digging all while sharing living quarters. Of course this pleasuredom would only be available for gang members that are U.S. citizens. Non-citizens would be entered into the new unarmed Fodder Unit of the Infantry to serve in checking suspected car bombs, caves, drawing fire, or clearing mined fields.
 
Good to hear from you FTW, well said.

Interesting how dumb Americans can be. we attept to start WWIII on the other side of the world because somebody might possibly maybe someday it could happen terrorize us, but we won't fund the manpower needed fight the creeps killing and terrorising women, kids and old people right where we live today.

When the troops return from Iraq lets have the police hire the ones who want the job and sick them on the gangs, if they resist terminate them. if they're arrested hard labor will adjust their attitude.

I carry a Beretta 96 whenever I go to the big towns but against a gang that would be of little use, hard to say if that old man would have been much better off if he was packing.
 
Why don't police get tough on Gangs:

Because the
ACLU would sue everyone for everything
Jesse Jackson would cry to the cameras
Al Sharpton would find someone to boycott
 
Dude,

I don't think they're that brave......I don't think very many of them would need to be shot dead by seemingly defenseless old men to make them think twice. We need to stop prosecuting people for defending themselves and make it known it is encouraged and OK. See if you can run that past your liberal friends.

JB
 
FTW;
You hit the nailhead on the gang problem. When the FBI got involved with the local task force, those gang members were not prosecuted under our liberal state courts. The vast marjority of them ended up in federal courts where they used the "RICCO" act on them for running a organized crime family. Federal courts will hand out a sentence that is twice as long as a state court will do.
But you biggest problem is your local D.A. who will plea bargain the serious crime down to a lessor crime to avoid having a court trial. Little punk is back on the street in no time at all. The very first thing they will plea bargain off is the use of a firearm in the commission of a crime, mandatory 5 years by itself. Now you know why gun control does not work. Even the NRA has supported the "firearm use in crimes" and rightfully states if it was used right, we would see a vast reduction in violent firearms crime.
Anyone not believing this, do yourself a favor and web search " Project Exile" that was used in Richmond, Virginia. Richmond Virginia was the #1 FBI listed "Murder Capital" of the world and had some of the most stringent gun control laws on the books and they did not work. Until the powers to be decided not to enact any more laws, that the gang bangers ignored, and started "Project Exile". What they did was get their D.A.to enforce the gun use in crime laws they already had on the books and not plea bargain it any more and got the judges to not grant any probation or parole if convicted of using a gun.
The gang bangers and drug dealers went off to prison for five years if they used a gun or or got caught with one as a ex-felon. Homicide dropped 65% in less then two years, and other violent crime also took a big nose dive.
But yet our liberals in congress will not speak of this, even though Richmond, Virginia is a suburb of Washington D.C.

RELH
 
"I have 1 viable solution. Reinstitute chain gangs and clean up our interstate highway and national park system. Since these individuals have a propensity for ganglife I say reward them and chain them to other enemy gang members for 12 hours a day. Keep them supplied with tools, whether it's cleaning or ditch digging all while sharing living quarters. Of course this pleasuredom would only be available for gang members that are U.S. citizens. Non-citizens would be entered into the new unarmed Fodder Unit of the Infantry to serve in checking suspected car bombs, caves, drawing fire, or clearing mined fields."

I could not agree more.



?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
pomona cal. my dad had a gang member slip into his house he was shaving at the time looked over a guy had a pistol on him. he looked at the pistol it was his and he knew it was loaded. the kid said old man keep shaving he did. he called the cops told the story they said your lucky. sometime later he seen the guy at the lake fishing. the went to his car to get some beer. my dad got the plate # called the cops. he seen a fish cop and told him he said no way i might get shot. my dad is pissed off now. well he waited no cops went home called agin made a report. sometime later he gets a call he went down there and they have his pistol and got the guy. rick
 
I like the sheriff in Arizona...Take all convicted gang members and put them in the Arizona desert for 5 years. Carry a concealed weapon permit and a gun and take care of it when you see it. Nobody would fault you for shooting a punk gang banger beating a 71 year old man for no reason. Until this country gets back to the good old days of punishing people for their bad behavior it will never change.
 
Tuff,

+1

buck1.gif


Later, Brandon
 
So gangs are a bigger threat to this country then another Terrorist attack is? Help me out here, when have gangs pulled off an attack the size of 9/11?

Not saying that gangs are not a problem or that something shouldn't be done about them but they are not going to attack our financial and political infrastructure in order to bring chaos to our society. I also don't think there are gang bangers that are plotting and praying daily for the destruction of America.

Nemont
 
What do you want to bet over the years gangs have killed more Americans than 9/11? and have we spent the money or 4800 lives to stop them we have in Iraq? no, because we accept it.

If you want to take us back to the war debate again I'll say prove Iraq has made us any safer again. did you watch the bit last night on 60 Minutes about Curveball? the con man who gave Bush the testimony Powell presented to the UN to justify going after Saddam? I've been reading on him and to say the least the whole situation is pathetic. no American interviewed him and the German's said he couldn't be verified but that's good enough to start a war. his chemical weapons plant was a seed cleaning plant, there were no mobile labs, and we already know about the phoney African uranium deal. I can prove gangs are hurting Americans, can you prove Iraq would or could have? if not what's your point? I like to argue also but keep it real.

By the way what are you going to do about Pakistan? if you want to fret there's a real concern you don't even have to cook up crap for.
 
60 minutes was good last night huntindude that was some good info the whole show was good. as far as curveball goes i think someone will wack him now the word is out. rick
 
Who mentioned Iraq once. PLease show me where I said one word regarding Iraq.

Here is the first reference to the war debate in this thread

"Interesting how dumb Americans can be. we attept to start WWIII on the other side of the world because somebody might possibly maybe someday it could happen terrorize us, but we won't fund the manpower needed fight the creeps killing and terrorising women, kids and old people right where we live today".

I didn't bring up anything other then to ask a question. If you believe that gangs are a bigger threat then a terrorist strike that could kill thousands at once then you can hold that opinion.

More Americans have been killed by cigarettes and cars then by 9/11, does that reduce the impact that 9/11 has had. It is the size and scope of a terrorist attack that makes so....terrorizing duh. while an attack on a 71 year old is reprehensible and should be prosecuted to the extent of the law it does not affect the dollar, price of oil, international alliances, confidence, interest rates.... pick something. A terrorist attack affects out way of life.




Which of the gangs goes to bed every night praying for the destruction of America? The gangs here are under surveilance and are inflitrated to a large degree. They are a police enforcement issue. Internation terrorism is a Federal Government issue. You know the whole seperation of powers and such as spelled out in the Constitution. If gangs are a problem in your local area you should elected local officials to enforce the laws and make gangs a priority. If gangs cross state lines the FBI is there to nab them.

The issue of gangs and terrorism are completely and totally seperate. I know you cannot see past Iraq but once in a while you may want to.

Also I have never said we are safer.

Nice try though.

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-07 AT 02:05PM (MST)[p]I spent a couple years in Honduras, where gangs rule the towns. MS13 and 18th st were the law. There was one small town that had no gangs at all though. A few years ago the townspeople got fed up and made their own law. Anyone displaying gang signs, tattoos, or clothing would be set on fire. No joke, the people carried little jars of gasoline and matches and would light gangsters on fire on sight. Gangsters soon learned that they would not be tolerated there and left............

Bottom line, it pisses me off to hear people blame the police for social issues. That's not their job. It falls on us to not tolerate this crap. Start in your own home and neighborhood. Cops are there to respond to emergencies the gang problem IMO is due to the destruction of the family. These guys have no positive male influence and find acceptance with other kids like them.


Andy


-----------------------------------------------
http://www.trophyblogger.com/Andymansavage
 
Torch gang bangers? I like it.

Nemont if the war hasn't made us any safer why did we do it? and why defend it? it was fun anyway so what the hey huh? the war is now seen for the mistake it is by the vast majority of Americans so it's time to let it die, the war is so the debate should too. The failed hunt for Bin Laden should and will continue.

I'm tired of arguing over it so tell you what, just to save time I'll say the war is great and so are gangs. gangs are just a minor inconvienence and boys will be boys after all.
 
Just had a wonderful idea. When we catch a radical muslim in Iraq or Afghanistan, ship him over here. Then strap some explosives on him and have him run into a gang house or a street corner filled with bangers. Boom! Kills two birds with one stone. Or maybe it kills one raghead and a bunch of shitbirds with one stone.
 
If we deported all the illegal alien gang bangers, that would help. All the legal-alien gang bangers should then be rounded up and deported too. I'll bet the total of those two groups is better than 25% of all bangers nation wide, higher in CA and AZ. MS-13, Mex Mafia, Surenos, and the rest of the pin-heads. That would really clean out the jails. Then the police need to start locking up US citizen bangers long term when they screw up.
 
Nemont WWWIII started 20 years ago and not by us. Hell it was more than 20 years ago. What a crock
 
Gang thing is scary. The little f@#&ers think they can get away with anything, 'an when they are caught, it's a badge of honor to the homies.
And like what has been said, they know they can bargain their way back on the street soon enough.
Wish we could gather 'em all up, put 'em out in the desert in a remote valley, arm 'em to the teeth 'an watch 'em slaughter each other.
Shoot any that are left... or right!
 
Well, I guess I will chime in. The problem is that being a member of a gang isn't illegal, and being part of a gang that is known to be involved in criminal activity isn't illegal either. The problem is that we are so concerned with everything else that we forget about America's problems. Here is what we do; we lock up the borders, and I'm talking complete isolationism, we shoot everyone we see or catch that comes over illegally, only allow adoptions of American born children, kill anyone who is incarcerated for life or has shown a propensity for breaking the law, and people who have shown an inability to support themselves or be productive members of society (i.e. people that refuse to get off of government housing, food stamps, welfare, etc.) America is done-for unless people realize that we can't help anybody until we help ourselves first.
 
Gangs? No they'er terorists,parasites and cowards. I know this,I've had to deal with them "professionally" for over half my life. In 1984 at a family dinner I got into an argument with one of my Uncles over the "gang" situation as it was in Sacramento,Ca. in 1984. He was a Lt. and was spokesman for the Sacto.Co. SO. I was learning alot about gangs at that time of my life and knew enough to know that Sacramento was in trouble. He stated their gang task force of four officers had the situation under control and that they were working hand in hand with LA Co. SO. I stated "now I know you are in trouble, LA lost the war years ago". No offense meant to LA Co.or PD. I have nothing but respect for them or any other PO. They are targets every time they suit up. Their hands are tied just like all Peace Officers hands are. I also stated even "Ricky Recruit" could read the writing on the walls, litterally! My Uncle and I didn't talk much for a couple of years as a result of our "discussion". He later appologized stating they had no idea at the time what a foothold the gangs had in Sac. Co. How to deal with gangs? Our society is not ready to face the truth about dealing with these parasites. Bangers are not afraid of prison. Hell, the California Prison system (it's hard to call it a prison system, it has become a social care system for convicted felons,the victims of society) (sorry I kinda got off track for a second), as a result of numerous court orders by the liberal Ninth Circuit is forced to cater to the pukes. Doing time is just a part of life and is a status symbol for gang members. Do time at Susanville, you ain't about dodo, but hey make it to the "Bay" (Pelican Bay State Prison)and you're somebody! The gang culture is generations deep. Their kids are born into the gang. It's all they know. When society finally gets fed up they just might figure out how to deal with them. The solution is final and most humans fear it. Laws would have to be dramatically changed and the Sheep Dogs would have to be turned loose against the wolves. You figure it out!
Until then the parasites will continue to flurish, victimizing good citizens as well as their own kind (they don't discriminate). Law enforcement agencies for the most part are reactionary and can not be there to protect you when the big bad wolf calls. Be prepared and don't be a sheep...BAA!
Norkal
 
Nork, I like your thinking and your passion about the issue. what does it take to make Americans say enough already? half the gang members have a warrant or are breaking parole so we have cause to check them out everyday. we don't have the man power or the funding to handle this situation, it shows a lack of national interest to make it a priority is all I can see.

Do you think police forces would like to have the resources to take care of this ? can it be done without new legislation? it's illegal for the military to be envolved so it falls back on law enforcement, maybe something new needs created just for gang extermination? I'm not sure what the law enforcemnt community has to say about this but I find it hard to believe they don't want to rid our streets of these creeps. we need to give them whatever they need to do it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-07 AT 10:20AM (MST)[p]Gangs are a big problem - a big sleeping dog that no one wants to wake up. If you look at the infrastructure of the terrorist groups and the gangs, they are pretty much the same. The terrorist groups base their massacres on religious ideology, which is just an excuse to gain territory and control of resources and political offices, which is exactly what the gangs do, or try to do but on a smaller scale. If you want a historical example of how organized crime and terrorist-like groups did lead to the desctuction of a society, let me know and I can refer you to a great book that chronicles over 4000 years of two separate civilizations here in the Americas that were ultimately destroyed by gang-like secret combinations and crime syndicates. PM me if interested.

We have enough laws on the books - we just need to enforce them and fight against new laws that limit our ability to protect ourselves as private citizens.

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
Our society is not ready yet to curb the gang problem for several reasons. We are not ready to pay the taxes that it will cost to really put a dent into the gang population.
CA. is a good example. As stated above our prisons are nothing but a vacation for gang bangers until they return to the "hood". We can not put very much more of them in prison due to our prison systems being so overcrowed that the Feds are threating to take over the state prison system.
We need to build bigger prisons and that will be a drain without new taxes. Our liberal bent wrist do gooders will not accept a jail or prison system that makes the convicts do hard labor and work to reduce the cost of feeding and maintaining the convicts.
No, it will get a lot worse before society is fed up and pushes for the gang problem to be resolved. In the mean time, I always pack and will defend myself and family until the bent wrist liberals take that option from me also. One thing I can say based on experience, 99.9% of the gang bangers are lousy shots, I am not.
RELH
 
I agree with most of that but how can you blame liberals for the problem when you've had a republican governor, president and congress for years? it has much more to do with caring than politics. we can elect to start a war in the middle east in a matter of weeks but we've ignored gangs for generations.

Gangs don't have much effect on me personally but I'm willing to pay my share of whatever it takes to crush them. when enough people care we will.
 
Killing terrorists in foriegn lands is a totally different story than killing terrorists that are Americans, citizens or illegals, doesn't matter. The fact is that our society is not ready to resort to using lethal force on people within our own boundries. Unfortunately I do not believe there is any other means of eliminating the gang culture. California prison and street gangs are now found in EVERY major city in the United States and I believe Canada also. This is not the fault of our law enforcement agencies, it is the fault of our society and legal system. The thought of resorting to lethal force is a scary one as it could lead to real problems. People in power as a rule seek one thing...more power. Turn law enforcement loose on bangers what would be next? Personally I think it would be worth the risk as long as the people are allowed to remain armed. I am going to laugh the day the ACLU has to defend that right! I have debated the gang issue many times with many people, most of which are in the law enforcement profession. Some say legalization of drugs would wipe out the gangs,BS! Others say community involvement is the ticket. Still other believe rehabilitation in prison is the answer. The're wacked! Ever hear the story about leading the horse to water? The gang culture would just find some other illegal activity to get involved in. It is their way of life. One thing is for sure, when it comes to resolving this problem the glass is half empty, and things will get far worse before they get better!
Norkalnimrod
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-07 AT 04:01PM (MST)[p]I'm starting to believe Pancho Villa had the right idea. Line em up against the wall and for less than a dollar they're gone for good! Have the first time offenders witness it and tell them if they get caught here again the same will happen to them no second chances period. No more walls, welfare, stealing, raping, gangs etc. they will be beating feet back to ole mexico where the living is easy and corruption abounds. The liberal thinking in this country and the politicians are to blame for the issue. The laws exist to end the problem they just need to be enforced.

If that's too brazen for some we could ship them out to a pacific atoll and let them eak out an existance there until they're done. I beginning to think incarceration is just a way of getting by w/o a job getting 3 squares a day and a roof over your head. That's just too damn easy and way too expensive!
 
Theres this one gang that keeps wanting me to join, cuz I'm pretty good with a bowstaff......
 
Nothing will be done about gangs for the same reason nothing will be done about illegal aliens. They only affect the lower and middle class people. Obviously a low priority item.

Blow up the WTC and kill "important" people and the govt. will declare a World War.

Adolf Hitler was totally misguided in his beliefs but I like his solution to the over crowded prisons.

Sorry, I'm in a funk today.......

Eel
 
Tony... that gang's initiation is eating nothing but steak for 3 solid weeks.
Maybee a kay-sa-delia once in a while.
 
50% of gang members in LA are illegal aliens. They can't shoot worth a #####. I think it's few that figured out that using a shotgun increases their odds of hitting a target. I know the feel good liberals don't want to hear this, but in my own modest opinion, being involved in a gang should be a capital offense. No years of hearings and all of that horses#@t. Charge the sob and fry him. That will make them think twice. Put all of our surplus landmines on the border. This country is so ruled by poliical correctness and human rights bs, it's no wonder we are in the state we are in. Hell, make a new law. If some gang banger kills someone, automatic immediate death penalty. If a gang banger gets caught doing something else, automatic life in prison, with no incoming or outgoing mail. If they screw up in prison, which most will do, automatic death penalty. In a lot of ways, this seems very tyrranic or communist, but what the hell else do we do? The touchy feely liberals aren't gonn solve this problem.
 
I agree with 99% of what you say though much of it hard if not impossible get done. the liberals keep getting the blame for this but ask yourself, have the conservatives made gangs a priority? nobody has so why is this the liberal's baby?. it's everyones fault and that includes us for not demanding our politicians take action clean up our streets. I want people to be happy and safe in the big towns if for no other reason than to keep them there and out of my hair.
 
Dude I know you are stirring the pot now for the sake of having a good old argument. You and I both know, and most common sense folks, that it has been the liberals who appose the death penalty. It is the liberals who feel that we must not punish the criminal instead we must provide rehab to curb his evil ways.
It is the liberals who have fought for more rehab programs and half way houses for the criminals instead of putting the money into prisons and keeping them away from the public.
You are right about the average citizen needing to get off his/her butt and demanding that our politicians quit listening to the liberals and their failed programs and get down to brass tacks and make a dent in crime or be voted out of office.
It is the liberals fault for their misguided beliefs and pushing those beliefs by yelling the loudest, but the everyday average Joe and Jane have to accept fault for failing to counteract this movement even when they do not believe the program that is being pushed down their throats. Like I said before, the general public is not fed up enought yet to get involved and push for a drastic change in our goverment and how it represents the majority of the people.
In the meantime, keep your firearm close and practice every chance you get in the event you have to protect yourself and your family.
RELH
 
I'm all for the death penalty and it could be used a lot more in my opinion. before you can execute a gang banger you have to catch and convict him, how much effort has your republican govorner, president and until last year congress done towards that? the ultra liberals screw up their share of stuff you'll get no argument from me on that, but they make great scape goats too.
 
You know Dude, I have a bad habit using the word liberals instead of using the word "complete idiotic assholes"
My bad. You are right. Most of what I want done will never happen or is unconstitutional. None the less, controlling the border will help control the meth and gang problems. And all the same, I still consider anyone who is PC, who thinks we can talk to the Al Quaeda and make peace, and anyone who rides a bike to work a damn liberal. I can still dream about mine fields, a croc filled Rio Grande, and me having a license to kill (tweekers) just like Bond, James Bond.
 
Like I said, libs make great scape goats don't they?

The far right's time in power is ending and things are a mess, it's the libs fault . Brilliant
 
Dude you keep forgetting that our Gov. Arnold baby, married into the Kennedy family. He ran as GOP, but is very liberal and Dem. at heart.

RELH
 

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