Funny USFS Story

[mightyhunter]

It is not my intent to stir the pot with this.

A few weeks ago I was hiking in the Sunlight Basin. I hit the trail at first light. I made about an 8 mile loop and was about 2 miles from the truck. I heard a bunch of voices below me in a gulch. I repeatedly heard "where is the d*** trail", "where is the f****** trail" "I can't find the trail". I had no idea who it was. I circled around the voices and dropped onto the main trail and headed to the truck.

Parked next to my truck were 4 USFS vehicles,including two Ford pickups and two small fire rigs. I left and headed down the road. At the Little Sunlight Campground, I ran into a USFS employee in another truck. I asked Will about the people and rigs and he knew nothing about it.

I decided to turn right to Cody at the Chief Joseph junction with the highway. I needed a wood permit to get some campfire wood. I paid my money and struck up a conversation with the older lady at the desk. The district ranger was also in the front. I asked the lady at the desk what the rigs and USFS people were doing in the Sunlight. I told her about the voices in the gulch and what they were saying. The lady at the desk said that is really embarrassing. The look on the District Ranger's(also a woman)face was contorted and she was trying not to laugh.

Apparently, this group with the USFS was a bunch of new hire "seasonals" and their trainers. They were training to do trail maintenance and upkeep. I told the people in the office that the "seasonals" need to find the trail before they try and maintain it. I was told by the lady at the desk that with the "seasonals" they hire they just hope they keep them alive, uninjured and located at all times until the summer season is over.

The trails in this forest usually have no trailhead markings or signs where ever the trails cross or join. Most trails come and go because when a tree falls across the trail the horseman, outfitters and hikers usually create a new path around the trees. It reminds me of someone chasing a snake. I pack a 12" Dandy Saw and try to do my best limbing the downfall across the trails so you can step over them.

I would guess the "seasonals" had no GPS and they hadn't mastered the PAS that most people in the backcountry rely on.

just sayin...mh

 

[Zeke]

I really can't blame them for their out-bursts.
You should have heard me today when I lost the trail and got into some really nasty spots.
I was hot, tired and thirsty and think I said something about abusing someone's mother. 7600'+ of elevation change over a short 5.5 mile hike will do that to a guy!
Sorry,
Zeke

PS: funny story MH.

 

[Deerlove]

I'd rather be lost in the woods than in a big city.

 

[mightyhunter]

Someone sent me a PM and asked what the PAS system was. The PAS system is "Pay Attention Stupid" as in pay attention to where you start, what direction you are going, and especially how to get back to where you started.

mh

 

[YBO]

Zeke. Was that elevation change up and down or was it pretty much straight up? How long did the hike take you?

 

[Zeke]

It was up AND down added together.

Even though it was only 3800'+ up it felt STRAIGHT UP and there were no "recovery" slopes in the 2.75 miles (one way). The return trip was even worse since the sun was well up and hotter than hell before I got back to the road. Kind of tough on the old knees but I feel pretty good tonight. Good thing I've been hard at it for 2 months before that hike!

Total time was 6 hours. Don't snicker, I'm old! Haha. That includes some photo time and just enjoying the beauty of being above all the ruckus.

It's a little used trail and I know why. It isn't a walk or a hike. It's a climb and very few guys want that kind of an ordeal. I'll go it again a couple times before my September sheep hunt in Wyoming.

Oh the things a sheep tag will make a guy do!

Zeke

 

[nfh]

Im surprised they were even up there to clean trails and maintain. Mostly clubs/outfitters and contractors do up keep on the trails.

I know the trail your talking about mightyhunter and isn't there tree markings on the trees?

 

[mightyhunter]

nfh,

I think they were practicing or something. I was hiking there again on Thursday and couldn't tell that they had done a thing. Apparently, they did find their way out as I found no bodies.

I had to laugh about your comment that outfitters do upkeep on the trails. They spend much of their time trying to conceal where they are going. They are the worst for going around downfall, winding around and making twisting trails up and down from deadfall. I have seen the backcountry horseman working a few trails around Crandall and the state line with Montana.

I knew a contractor (Carl Jones) who used to do a few trails but mostly he worked South of Cody. I never heard of him working on the South Fork, North Fork, Sunlight or Crandall areas. Personally, I don't care if the USFS works on the trails. It gives me an excuse to wander around when the trail disappears. It is amazing what you can find when you wander around.

mh

 

[nfh]

I know Carl. That old fart amazes me that he is still working like a fool.

most of the outfitters cut in trails that they use for shortcuts. very few of them clean the main trails.

I use to clean trails a lot with the Shoshone backcountry horseman.

 

[BuzzH]

mightyhunter,

That is a funny story, but one that goes on all the time anymore.

If you think the trails in Crandall and Sunlight are bad, try the Frank Church sometime. I cant tell you how many times I've said "where is the f-ing trail" in that country. There are hundreds of miles of trail in the Frank that are either gone, or so bad, that they wont exist at all in the near future. The trails in little loon, cottonwood ridge, marble creek, trapper creek etc. etc. etc. out of the Middle Fork are all tough to even follow anymore. This isn't limited to the Church, its everywhere I work in UT, NM, AZ, ID, MT, WY, CO, NV.

With basically no funding going to districts for trail maintenance, the NF trail systems are falling apart. Sure, most districts have a small trail crew, but about all they can do is maintain the most used trails. The FS also gets some help with trails through various state conservation corps kids and other similar programs. Congress has done an outstanding job of defunding land management agencies, while expecting them to do more with less for the last 15+ years. The results of those defunding efforts are now being felt.

The only way to change the situation is to tell Congress that land management costs money. Let them know that your trail systems, roads, etc. need to be maintained.

 

[mightyhunter]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-15 AT 02:15PM (MST)[p]Buzz H,

I have spent some time in the Frank Church and know what you say about it is true. The roads in and out are also a little scary. I remember a narrow road half way between Darby, Montana and Elk City, Idaho. I met a pickup with a horse trailer going West the other direction. No one was backing up and there was no turnout. My tires were on the East edge of a drop off into hell. The trailer was pulled up on a side hill at a horrible angle with the horses fighting to stand up. Our mirrors had to be folded in. Beautiful country.

The intent of my story was not to condemn the USFS. But you did bring up some thoughts on what the cause is.

I do think the issue is more than just funding. It also involves local allocation of funding and issues of common sense. The four rigs at the trailhead in my story had enough room to seat a couple of dozen people. Just by judging the footprints in the trail down by the road, there could not have been more than 6-8 people in the woods. Was it necessary to have four vehicles in this remote location? A few years back, I also remember running into a couple of USFS employees riding horses on a Friday in the Crandall area. I had just hiked the main North Crandall trail. The ladies claimed they were looking for cows on USFS land. I hadn't seen a cow pie or a track in all the miles I had just hiked. They were out killing time and money courtesy of the taxpayers.

I think many folks also believe that the USFS is top heavy. You may or may not share this opinion. Too many administrators and not enough people actually accomplishing something. Lots of administrators also equals higher GS pay levels. USFS lifers may have as much as 8 weeks of paid vacation. Try getting that in the private sector. Limit paid vacations to a maximum of 4 weeks and you would have lots of money to hire worker bees and you would have more continuity in the workplace without lifers and managers disappearing for weeks at a time.

You have heard me complain about a lack of signs in the wilderness and other areas. Lots of idiots steal these signs. For the life of me, I do not understand why. I also don't understand why the USFS, when it is issuing permits to outfitters, doesn't require the outfitters to clear and maintain the trails in the areas they outfit in. That seems only logical to me. The outfitters are making money off the land and should give back to it. The USFS permit fees charged are minimal. The grazing permits should also require this from ranchers using the resource. I do what I can to clean up trails and to pick up trash(my pet gripe)along the trail. I have even dragged a chainsaw on my back over the years to help. You can't do that in the wilderness areas. Now at age 60, the chainsaw is getting heavy and so is the gas and bar oil to keep it going. I don't own ponies.

In all fairness to the modern USFS, the old school employees did not have to deal with all the stupid studies, lawsuits and EIS rules that exist today. Years ago, there were timber sales to administer but that has become somewhat of a thing of the past. Timber management around here seems to be conducted by a few small controlled burns, tiny timber sales and more lately by large uncontrolled burns. I have witnessed three big fires in this area that were for the most part left to burn in the name of forest management. The USFS could never get permission, without intervening lawsuits, to actually manage the dead timber or "god forbid" harvest the timber. Mobilizing huge numbers of fire fighters to watch these "needed" burns and control the perimeters makes very little financial sense. I also remember a fire in Crow Creek a few years ago. It started on National Park land in the eastern parts of YNP. The let it burn policy of the NPS was fine until it jumped to National Forest land as a raging out of control forest fire.

If money was the answer to all our problems, the U.S. would have the finest education system in the world, the most efficient military, and the best elected officials. I think most people think they are taxed to death. It is not my intent to get you started with my comments. Just some observations that I have accumulated personally. I am glad you appreciated the story. The funniest part of the story for me, was the office people telling me that what all they hoped for with the seasonals was no injuries, no deaths and no one getting lost.

just sayin...mh

 

[nfh]

Well said MH

 

[BuzzH]

mightyhunter,

Theres some good stuff in this post, and some of it is way off base.

For starters, there are no FS employees that get 8 weeks of paid vacation a year. The maximum vacation time per year is 208 hours, 5 weeks and 1 day. That's only after 15 years of service. An employee can carry over 240 hours of AL. I don't think that's out of line when compared to what 15+ year employees get in the private sector.

Is the FS top heavy? I think you may have a case at the RO/WO level...district level, no way. I think you would be shocked at the average GS level at a district.

The funding issue on fire, I agree with you on that. During many severe fire seasons, project money is diverted to help off-set the costs of fires. IMO, fire should have its own budget, separate from the rest of the FS/BLM budgets. There should be an appropriation from congress for fighting wildland fires and the money should be divided up between the FS, BLM, and States. Make congress accountable for the funds they're spending on wildland fire fighting and let them answer for it. Instead, they put the demands on the FS/BLM/States to fight fires via their rural constituents who live in the wildland/urban interface. Then, that same Congress complains about and blames the Agencies for the high costs associated with fighting fires.

More funding, and more importantly SECURE funding, needs to get to the district levels if we want better management and maintenance of our trails, roads, wildlife, etc.

Its funny that people think they're taxed to death and unwilling to demand Congress to appropriate 1% of the National budget to manage public lands...then never say a word about defense spending.

 

[COLOelkman]

My only comment on the issue is that here in CO the FS seems to close more and more roads permanently because of a "lack of funding" from what I've heard. It is very frustrating to go to areas I've hunted in the past to find out that many areas are now nearly inaccessible due to many miles of roads being shut down. Historically, I've actually not seen them doing maintenance on the type of roads I'm referring to which are 4WD roads or just 2-tracks off the beaten path. I've seen them maintain the main roads but backroads have typically never been touched based on my 35+ years of travels. Makes me think they are just wanting to keep the public out of much of the FS with the "back-to-original" mindset.