Former VP of SFW now on the Utah WB????
- Thread starter tallbuck1
- Start date
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,603
You mean to tell me that the same people who have been involved with wildlife programs are still involved with wildlife programs??????//
OMG, what's this world coming to????????
Lock away all yer purdy women-folk!
PS: Just so you can stay up, the above is satirical
Zeke
OMG, what's this world coming to????????
Lock away all yer purdy women-folk!
PS: Just so you can stay up, the above is satirical
Zeke
My dear friends........The Foxes have been running the "Hen House" for a long time now!! Most are just to nieve or uninformed to be aware of this. You can bet your asz their will be some interesting changes comeing to Utah Big Game Hunting over the next few years. "SHALL WE ALL REST IN PEACE"
Agreed... This has me extremely nervous for the future of Big Game here in Utah and what it will mean for the "Average Joe" Hunter. It will suck having a guy who ran a CWMU and now is part owner in a Camo Company, and was also a key player in a Non Profit Conservation group be part of the decision makers for Big Game Conservation and Hunters (Majority Average Hunters) for the state of Utah.
Is it just me or is there a HUGE conflict of Interest here?
Tallbuck1
Is it just me or is there a HUGE conflict of Interest here?
Tallbuck1
S
SMELLYBUCK
Guest
Tall,
It is not a huge conflict of interest as the Wildlife Board is supposed to represent different backgrounds.
What aggravates me are these trophy groups have successfully marketed themselves to the state as representatives of ALL sportsmen. They do not represent me. Sounds like they don't represent you either. I am at complete odds with them. Every time they get their way with policy and regulations, I lose opportunity. I'm still waiting to see the pay off for all my sacrifice.
An argument should be made to the wildlife board to get representation of trophy hunters and to get representation from general hunters. THEY SHOULD NOT BE LUMPED TOGETHER.
Additional positions should be made on the board to represent general hunters.
It is not a huge conflict of interest as the Wildlife Board is supposed to represent different backgrounds.
What aggravates me are these trophy groups have successfully marketed themselves to the state as representatives of ALL sportsmen. They do not represent me. Sounds like they don't represent you either. I am at complete odds with them. Every time they get their way with policy and regulations, I lose opportunity. I'm still waiting to see the pay off for all my sacrifice.
An argument should be made to the wildlife board to get representation of trophy hunters and to get representation from general hunters. THEY SHOULD NOT BE LUMPED TOGETHER.
Additional positions should be made on the board to represent general hunters.
Smelly,
I do see it as a conflict on the point that TWO people who used to work of SFW are now on the state board. But I do see your point.
I 100% agree with you also on there should be equal representation on the board and that is my beef as well, and it sounds like we have the very same views.
Since the WB members are chosen by the Governor we should (all average joe hunters) write a letter to Gov Herbert and let him know that we dont approve of the choice and that there needs to be valid represention of ALL hunter types, (Trophy High Money Guys, and Average Joe Hunters).
Tallbuck1
I do see it as a conflict on the point that TWO people who used to work of SFW are now on the state board. But I do see your point.
I 100% agree with you also on there should be equal representation on the board and that is my beef as well, and it sounds like we have the very same views.
Since the WB members are chosen by the Governor we should (all average joe hunters) write a letter to Gov Herbert and let him know that we dont approve of the choice and that there needs to be valid represention of ALL hunter types, (Trophy High Money Guys, and Average Joe Hunters).
Tallbuck1
stillhunterman
Active Member
- Messages
- 608
I hear what you guys are saying and agree with most of it. Nothing has been finalized as of now. Applications to apply to be a board member run until March 15th, then the process begins until ultimately the Gov makes his pick. There are also positions opening on the RAC's.
http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/news/42-utah-wildlife-news/1059-two-openings-on-the-wildlife-board.html
http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/news/4...p-decide-how-wildlife-is-managed-in-utah.html
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/news/42-utah-wildlife-news/1059-two-openings-on-the-wildlife-board.html
http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/news/4...p-decide-how-wildlife-is-managed-in-utah.html
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
J
joeaveragehunter
Guest
Take me, take me. I'm a average hunter & add to that, flat I'm broke. I qualify.
You'd be shocked at what an average joe can do foe ya! Open'er up baby, we're going hunting under my tenure, by Gawd we will.
You'd be shocked at what an average joe can do foe ya! Open'er up baby, we're going hunting under my tenure, by Gawd we will.
S
SMELLYBUCK
Guest
I actually just applied for the wildlife board position because of this thread. I can't complain if I don't try.
I'm sure it was a waste of time. Special interests lobbyists look better on paper and have a profit motive to get the connections they need.
I made my case that a voice for general hunters needs to be considered.
I hope DWR wakes up to this and can start figuring out how to improve the general hunts.
I'm sure it was a waste of time. Special interests lobbyists look better on paper and have a profit motive to get the connections they need.
I made my case that a voice for general hunters needs to be considered.
I hope DWR wakes up to this and can start figuring out how to improve the general hunts.
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,812
I'm an average joe hunter and I think Ryan would be great. I think it's funny how everybody that opposes the SFW claims to be an average joe hunter or at least trying to champion the average joe hunter. The truth is most of us are average joe hunters and we still disagree on plenty of issues.
Speaking of the DWR fixing things, it was great to read the new directors article in the new Sportsman Voice and hear his thoughts at the SFW banquet in Richfield last weekend. He seems to have some great ideas and gathering lots of support.
Speaking of the DWR fixing things, it was great to read the new directors article in the new Sportsman Voice and hear his thoughts at the SFW banquet in Richfield last weekend. He seems to have some great ideas and gathering lots of support.
stillhunterman
Active Member
- Messages
- 608
I don't personally know Ryan nor do I know for sure what his philosophies with regard to Utah's wildlife are. I'll hold any opinions until such time they become relevant, if he does get appointed to the board. I have other preferences as to who I would like to see appointed, but don't we all? Anyway you're right Muley, Greg does have some good ideas and certainly is gaining some support. He has been very receptive to hearing some of the ideas from the UWC as well. Seems like he might do well in his new position. Guess time will tell where things will head on his watch; lots of folks will be following closely.
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-13 AT 06:41AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-13 AT 06:40?AM (MST)
>I'm an average joe hunter and
>I think Ryan would be
>great. I think
>it's funny how everybody that
>opposes the SFW claims to
>be an average joe hunter
>or at least trying to
>champion the average joe hunter.
> The truth is most
>of us are average joe
>hunters and we still disagree
>on plenty of issues.
>
Muley_73
I am the Average Joe Hunter, (Minimum Work Vacation Time and Decent Salary). I actually worked for SFW for 7 years (2001-2008) I know how it operates and what personal agendas are getting pushed and which were not. I don't think Ryan will be great. I have my own personal beliefs and facts of what I did see while working with SFW. I believe that he will push a lot of agendas that will not entirely benefit the Average Joe and that hunting will still continue to move to a Rich man's world leaving the Average Joe to have the scraps.
I know of A LOT of "Average Joe's" that gave a lot of time and money to SFW because they have a dream and desire to help a good cause. Unfortunately I and many of those people over the years have stepped away from SFW due to them having their feelings hurt as SFW (shocker) says they would listen but then didn't in the end.
You are right though that we all cannot agree on everything but If there were less Money Driven Contention issues within our community like Conservation tags, SFW showing there books, the Expo Money allocation, and a few other's then I think the majority of all the other Average Joe issues might go away or seem a whole lot easier to resolve.
Tallbuck1
>I'm an average joe hunter and
>I think Ryan would be
>great. I think
>it's funny how everybody that
>opposes the SFW claims to
>be an average joe hunter
>or at least trying to
>champion the average joe hunter.
> The truth is most
>of us are average joe
>hunters and we still disagree
>on plenty of issues.
>
Muley_73
I am the Average Joe Hunter, (Minimum Work Vacation Time and Decent Salary). I actually worked for SFW for 7 years (2001-2008) I know how it operates and what personal agendas are getting pushed and which were not. I don't think Ryan will be great. I have my own personal beliefs and facts of what I did see while working with SFW. I believe that he will push a lot of agendas that will not entirely benefit the Average Joe and that hunting will still continue to move to a Rich man's world leaving the Average Joe to have the scraps.
I know of A LOT of "Average Joe's" that gave a lot of time and money to SFW because they have a dream and desire to help a good cause. Unfortunately I and many of those people over the years have stepped away from SFW due to them having their feelings hurt as SFW (shocker) says they would listen but then didn't in the end.
You are right though that we all cannot agree on everything but If there were less Money Driven Contention issues within our community like Conservation tags, SFW showing there books, the Expo Money allocation, and a few other's then I think the majority of all the other Average Joe issues might go away or seem a whole lot easier to resolve.
Tallbuck1
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-13
>AT 06:41?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-13
>AT 06:40?AM (MST)
>
>>I'm an average joe hunter and
>>I think Ryan would be
>>great. I think
>>it's funny how everybody that
>>opposes the SFW claims to
>>be an average joe hunter
>>or at least trying to
>>champion the average joe hunter.
>> The truth is most
>>of us are average joe
>>hunters and we still disagree
>>on plenty of issues.
>>
> Muley_73
>
>I am the Average Joe Hunter,
>(Minimum Work Vacation Time and
>Decent Salary). I actually
>worked for SFW for 7
>years (2001-2008) I know how
>it operates and what personal
>agendas are getting pushed and
>which were not. I
>don't think Ryan will be
>great. I have my
>own personal beliefs and facts
>of what I did see
>while working with SFW.
>I believe that he will
>push a lot of agendas
>that will not entirely benefit
>the Average Joe and that
>hunting will still continue to
>move to a Rich man's
>world leaving the Average Joe
>to have the scraps.
>
>I know of A LOT of
>"Average Joe's" that gave a
>lot of time and money
>to SFW because they have
>a dream and desire to
>help a good cause.
>Unfortunately I and many of
>those people over the years
>have stepped away from SFW
>due to them having their
>feelings hurt as SFW (shocker)
>says they would listen but
>then didn't in the end.
>
>
>You are right though that we
>all cannot agree on everything
>but If there were less
>Money Driven Contention issues within
>our community like Conservation tags,
>SFW showing there books, the
>Expo Money allocation, and a
>few other's then I think
>the majority of all the
>other Average Joe issues might
>go away or seem a
>whole lot easier to resolve.
>
>
>Tallbuck1
Excellent post tallbuck1, It would be real interesting to share some information with you. I also supported SFW for many years, along with my friends in many ways. But now, we have walked away from this group with hard feeling. I do not think they represent the "Average Hunter". How the hell could they, they never ask for any members opinion on any issues they present to the DWR board. All they seem to do is collect our membership money, go to the board and say "WE" 10k plus members wants this to be done, but never ask any members opinions. Nor will they ever. SFW is the only group I have ever seen where no members have any input on who runs the show. Maybe its because no one wants to give up that 100K plus salery!!????
>AT 06:41?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-13
>AT 06:40?AM (MST)
>
>>I'm an average joe hunter and
>>I think Ryan would be
>>great. I think
>>it's funny how everybody that
>>opposes the SFW claims to
>>be an average joe hunter
>>or at least trying to
>>champion the average joe hunter.
>> The truth is most
>>of us are average joe
>>hunters and we still disagree
>>on plenty of issues.
>>
> Muley_73
>
>I am the Average Joe Hunter,
>(Minimum Work Vacation Time and
>Decent Salary). I actually
>worked for SFW for 7
>years (2001-2008) I know how
>it operates and what personal
>agendas are getting pushed and
>which were not. I
>don't think Ryan will be
>great. I have my
>own personal beliefs and facts
>of what I did see
>while working with SFW.
>I believe that he will
>push a lot of agendas
>that will not entirely benefit
>the Average Joe and that
>hunting will still continue to
>move to a Rich man's
>world leaving the Average Joe
>to have the scraps.
>
>I know of A LOT of
>"Average Joe's" that gave a
>lot of time and money
>to SFW because they have
>a dream and desire to
>help a good cause.
>Unfortunately I and many of
>those people over the years
>have stepped away from SFW
>due to them having their
>feelings hurt as SFW (shocker)
>says they would listen but
>then didn't in the end.
>
>
>You are right though that we
>all cannot agree on everything
>but If there were less
>Money Driven Contention issues within
>our community like Conservation tags,
>SFW showing there books, the
>Expo Money allocation, and a
>few other's then I think
>the majority of all the
>other Average Joe issues might
>go away or seem a
>whole lot easier to resolve.
>
>
>Tallbuck1
Excellent post tallbuck1, It would be real interesting to share some information with you. I also supported SFW for many years, along with my friends in many ways. But now, we have walked away from this group with hard feeling. I do not think they represent the "Average Hunter". How the hell could they, they never ask for any members opinion on any issues they present to the DWR board. All they seem to do is collect our membership money, go to the board and say "WE" 10k plus members wants this to be done, but never ask any members opinions. Nor will they ever. SFW is the only group I have ever seen where no members have any input on who runs the show. Maybe its because no one wants to give up that 100K plus salery!!????
>I'm an average joe hunter and
>I think Ryan would be
>great. I think
>it's funny how everybody that
>opposes the SFW claims to
>be an average joe hunter
>or at least trying to
>champion the average joe hunter.
> The truth is most
>of us are average joe
>hunters and we still disagree
>on plenty of issues.
>
>Speaking of the DWR fixing things,
>it was great to read
>the new directors article in
>the new Sportsman Voice and
>hear his thoughts at the
>SFW banquet in Richfield last
>weekend. He seems to
>have some great ideas and
>gathering lots of support.
My defination of average Joe Hunter is ......a hunter that has no chance to pay 10k-200k for a conservation permit. a hunter that does not have a CWMU to play on, nor is a guide, friend nor family member of a CWMU operator. .......A Joe Hunter is a hunter that applies for Utah limited entry tags that must wait 15 years to draw a tag, and in the mean time, hunt on public land with low numbers of Deer and Elk. With a small army of hunters around him opening day and every day. A hunter that is lucky to shoot a 2 pt. buck or a spike Elk every year. He sure as hell is not taging out on 27" Bucks every year, nor 5 pt Bulls or better every year. He has no personell play ground to hunt!!! "UNTILL THE PLAYING FIELD IS LEVEL, NOTHING WILL CHANGE"
>I think Ryan would be
>great. I think
>it's funny how everybody that
>opposes the SFW claims to
>be an average joe hunter
>or at least trying to
>champion the average joe hunter.
> The truth is most
>of us are average joe
>hunters and we still disagree
>on plenty of issues.
>
>Speaking of the DWR fixing things,
>it was great to read
>the new directors article in
>the new Sportsman Voice and
>hear his thoughts at the
>SFW banquet in Richfield last
>weekend. He seems to
>have some great ideas and
>gathering lots of support.
My defination of average Joe Hunter is ......a hunter that has no chance to pay 10k-200k for a conservation permit. a hunter that does not have a CWMU to play on, nor is a guide, friend nor family member of a CWMU operator. .......A Joe Hunter is a hunter that applies for Utah limited entry tags that must wait 15 years to draw a tag, and in the mean time, hunt on public land with low numbers of Deer and Elk. With a small army of hunters around him opening day and every day. A hunter that is lucky to shoot a 2 pt. buck or a spike Elk every year. He sure as hell is not taging out on 27" Bucks every year, nor 5 pt Bulls or better every year. He has no personell play ground to hunt!!! "UNTILL THE PLAYING FIELD IS LEVEL, NOTHING WILL CHANGE"
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-13 AT 07:26AM (MST)[p]8mmMag,
I am sorry that you were one of the many that have hard feelings after investing what you did. I would love to chat as it is funny to run into guys who also have hard feelings and compare notes.
You bring up great points with your comment about asking the membership how to vote on a particular topic. Things were brought up at SFW board meetings but it was always personal agenda and NOT what the so called "Sportsmans Voice" was truly saying because they were NOT asked! Misrepresentation of their members was always the case as personal agendas were pushed first and foremost.
8mmMag Said
"Maybe its because no one wants to give up that 100K plus salary!!????" This is funny because Ryan Just stepped down from his VP Job with SFW... Must be making a sweet deal off of SFW as I am sure Kings will again be the Official Camo of SFW and who else knows.
Anybody know if he has his "Full Curl" yet?
Tallbuck1
I am sorry that you were one of the many that have hard feelings after investing what you did. I would love to chat as it is funny to run into guys who also have hard feelings and compare notes.
You bring up great points with your comment about asking the membership how to vote on a particular topic. Things were brought up at SFW board meetings but it was always personal agenda and NOT what the so called "Sportsmans Voice" was truly saying because they were NOT asked! Misrepresentation of their members was always the case as personal agendas were pushed first and foremost.
8mmMag Said
"Maybe its because no one wants to give up that 100K plus salary!!????" This is funny because Ryan Just stepped down from his VP Job with SFW... Must be making a sweet deal off of SFW as I am sure Kings will again be the Official Camo of SFW and who else knows.
Anybody know if he has his "Full Curl" yet?
Tallbuck1
>>I'm an average joe hunter and
>>I think Ryan would be
>>great. I think
>>it's funny how everybody that
>>opposes the SFW claims to
>>be an average joe hunter
>>or at least trying to
>>champion the average joe hunter.
>> The truth is most
>>of us are average joe
>>hunters and we still disagree
>>on plenty of issues.
>>
>>Speaking of the DWR fixing things,
>>it was great to read
>>the new directors article in
>>the new Sportsman Voice and
>>hear his thoughts at the
>>SFW banquet in Richfield last
>>weekend. He seems to
>>have some great ideas and
>>gathering lots of support.
>
>
>My defination of average Joe Hunter
>is ......a hunter that has
>no chance to pay 10k-200k
>for a conservation permit. a
>hunter that does not have
>a CWMU to play on,
>nor is a guide, friend
>nor family member of a
>CWMU operator. .......A Joe Hunter
>is a hunter that applies
>for Utah limited entry tags
>that must wait 15 years
>to draw a tag, and
>in the mean time, hunt
>on public land with low
>numbers of Deer and Elk.
>With a small army of
>hunters around him opening day
>and every day. A hunter
>that is lucky to shoot
>a 2 pt. buck or
>a spike Elk every year.
>He sure as hell is
>not taging out on 27"
>Bucks every year, nor 5
>pt Bulls or better every
>year. He has no personell
>play ground to hunt!!!
>"UNTILL THE PLAYING FIELD IS
>LEVEL, NOTHING WILL CHANGE"
EXACTLY... Until this concept is known by EVERYONE and 100% understood nothing will change for Utah.
Tallbuck1
>>I think Ryan would be
>>great. I think
>>it's funny how everybody that
>>opposes the SFW claims to
>>be an average joe hunter
>>or at least trying to
>>champion the average joe hunter.
>> The truth is most
>>of us are average joe
>>hunters and we still disagree
>>on plenty of issues.
>>
>>Speaking of the DWR fixing things,
>>it was great to read
>>the new directors article in
>>the new Sportsman Voice and
>>hear his thoughts at the
>>SFW banquet in Richfield last
>>weekend. He seems to
>>have some great ideas and
>>gathering lots of support.
>
>
>My defination of average Joe Hunter
>is ......a hunter that has
>no chance to pay 10k-200k
>for a conservation permit. a
>hunter that does not have
>a CWMU to play on,
>nor is a guide, friend
>nor family member of a
>CWMU operator. .......A Joe Hunter
>is a hunter that applies
>for Utah limited entry tags
>that must wait 15 years
>to draw a tag, and
>in the mean time, hunt
>on public land with low
>numbers of Deer and Elk.
>With a small army of
>hunters around him opening day
>and every day. A hunter
>that is lucky to shoot
>a 2 pt. buck or
>a spike Elk every year.
>He sure as hell is
>not taging out on 27"
>Bucks every year, nor 5
>pt Bulls or better every
>year. He has no personell
>play ground to hunt!!!
>"UNTILL THE PLAYING FIELD IS
>LEVEL, NOTHING WILL CHANGE"
EXACTLY... Until this concept is known by EVERYONE and 100% understood nothing will change for Utah.
Tallbuck1
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,812
Well I would fall under all of your average joe requirments other than feeling lucky to shoot a 2 point every year. I dont need a tag every year nor do I feel lucky to hunt in a state that I should have to feel lucky to find a 2 point.
Oh and I am ok with the Expo and conservation tags, because the truth is they are an overall benifit to our wildlife. That is just a fact as much as us poor peasant average joes want it not to be so.
Oh and I am ok with the Expo and conservation tags, because the truth is they are an overall benifit to our wildlife. That is just a fact as much as us poor peasant average joes want it not to be so.
S
SMELLYBUCK
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-13 AT 08:37AM (MST)[p]Muley 73,
It has nothing to do with being or defining "an Average Joe." It has everything to do with the state moving from a general hunting state to an exclusive hunting state. Do you want more exclusive hunting opportunities or more general hunting opportunities?
Have you ever wanted more general tags? Have you ever wanted fewer restrictions? If not, don't tell me you're an Average Joe.
Does it offend you when you see a lot of hunters on a general hunt, even on a high success year? Are you happy to see tags cut? Do you take comfort knowing the crowds and competition are smaller? Do you delight in more limited entry opportunities? If so, don't tell me you're an Average Joe.
SFW and other organizations would not want more general tags and fewer restrictions even if the deer population doubled.
Their treasure is in exclusive hunting opportunities where you go out, have very few hunters, and get your pick of the litter. That's their treasure, and that is where their heart is. They have never advocated for more general hunting opportunities. They want to cut the general hunt in exchange for more exclusive hunts.
The general hunters in this state are treated like dogs. We get the reject limited entry areas, while CWMU's constantly get more public land in exchange for an immaterial amount of tags.
So what are you for Muley 73? Regardless if the herd shrinks or grows, do you want more exclusive opportunities or more general opportunities?
It has nothing to do with being or defining "an Average Joe." It has everything to do with the state moving from a general hunting state to an exclusive hunting state. Do you want more exclusive hunting opportunities or more general hunting opportunities?
Have you ever wanted more general tags? Have you ever wanted fewer restrictions? If not, don't tell me you're an Average Joe.
Does it offend you when you see a lot of hunters on a general hunt, even on a high success year? Are you happy to see tags cut? Do you take comfort knowing the crowds and competition are smaller? Do you delight in more limited entry opportunities? If so, don't tell me you're an Average Joe.
SFW and other organizations would not want more general tags and fewer restrictions even if the deer population doubled.
Their treasure is in exclusive hunting opportunities where you go out, have very few hunters, and get your pick of the litter. That's their treasure, and that is where their heart is. They have never advocated for more general hunting opportunities. They want to cut the general hunt in exchange for more exclusive hunts.
The general hunters in this state are treated like dogs. We get the reject limited entry areas, while CWMU's constantly get more public land in exchange for an immaterial amount of tags.
So what are you for Muley 73? Regardless if the herd shrinks or grows, do you want more exclusive opportunities or more general opportunities?
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-13
>AT 08:37?AM (MST)
>
>Muley 73,
>
>It has nothing to do with
>being or defining "an Average
>Joe." It has everything
>to do with the state
>moving from a general hunting
>state to an exclusive hunting
>state. Do you want
>more exclusive hunting opportunities or
>more general hunting opportunities?
>
>Have you ever wanted more general
>tags? Have you ever
>wanted fewer restrictions? If
>not, don't tell me you're
>an Average Joe.
>
>Does it offend you when you
>see a lot of hunters
>on a general hunt, even
>on a high success year?
> Are you happy to
>see tags cut? Do
>you take comfort knowing the
>crowds and competition are smaller?
> Do you delight in
>more limited entry opportunities?
>If so, don't tell me
>you're an Average Joe.
>
>SFW and other organizations would not
>want more general tags and
>fewer restrictions even if the
>deer population doubled.
>
>Their treasure is in exclusive hunting
>opportunities where you go out,
>have very few hunters, and
>get your pick of the
>litter. That's their treasure,
>and that is where their
>heart is. They have
>never advocated for more general
>hunting opportunities. They want
>to cut the general hunt
>in exchange for more exclusive
>hunts.
>
>The general hunters in this state
>are treated like dogs.
>We get the reject limited
>entry areas, while CWMU's constantly
>get more public land in
>exchange for an immaterial amount
>of tags.
>
>So what are you for Muley
>73? Regardless if the
>herd shrinks or grows, do
>you want more exclusive opportunities
>or more general opportunities?
Well said Muley73....If anyone doubts what Muley73 has said in his statement.......just contact anyone in Wyoming DWR and ask how often SFW has tried to get them to close units to public hunters, to create more limited entry draw opportunities. I got this info from 2 Wyoming F&G cops, when I contacted them about hunting in Wyoming. Without even bringing up SFW, when they found out I was from Utah. They pumped me for information and my opinion's and experiences greatly about SFW. Both conversation's were over 1 hour on the phone. Their words exactly were, we dont want them(SFW) here, we dont want Wyoming turning into Utah.....little to no opportunity for the regular guy!!
>AT 08:37?AM (MST)
>
>Muley 73,
>
>It has nothing to do with
>being or defining "an Average
>Joe." It has everything
>to do with the state
>moving from a general hunting
>state to an exclusive hunting
>state. Do you want
>more exclusive hunting opportunities or
>more general hunting opportunities?
>
>Have you ever wanted more general
>tags? Have you ever
>wanted fewer restrictions? If
>not, don't tell me you're
>an Average Joe.
>
>Does it offend you when you
>see a lot of hunters
>on a general hunt, even
>on a high success year?
> Are you happy to
>see tags cut? Do
>you take comfort knowing the
>crowds and competition are smaller?
> Do you delight in
>more limited entry opportunities?
>If so, don't tell me
>you're an Average Joe.
>
>SFW and other organizations would not
>want more general tags and
>fewer restrictions even if the
>deer population doubled.
>
>Their treasure is in exclusive hunting
>opportunities where you go out,
>have very few hunters, and
>get your pick of the
>litter. That's their treasure,
>and that is where their
>heart is. They have
>never advocated for more general
>hunting opportunities. They want
>to cut the general hunt
>in exchange for more exclusive
>hunts.
>
>The general hunters in this state
>are treated like dogs.
>We get the reject limited
>entry areas, while CWMU's constantly
>get more public land in
>exchange for an immaterial amount
>of tags.
>
>So what are you for Muley
>73? Regardless if the
>herd shrinks or grows, do
>you want more exclusive opportunities
>or more general opportunities?
Well said Muley73....If anyone doubts what Muley73 has said in his statement.......just contact anyone in Wyoming DWR and ask how often SFW has tried to get them to close units to public hunters, to create more limited entry draw opportunities. I got this info from 2 Wyoming F&G cops, when I contacted them about hunting in Wyoming. Without even bringing up SFW, when they found out I was from Utah. They pumped me for information and my opinion's and experiences greatly about SFW. Both conversation's were over 1 hour on the phone. Their words exactly were, we dont want them(SFW) here, we dont want Wyoming turning into Utah.....little to no opportunity for the regular guy!!
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,297
>Well I would fall under all
>of your average joe requirments
>other than feeling lucky to
>shoot a 2 point every
>year. I dont need
>a tag every year nor
>do I feel lucky to
>hunt in a state that
>I should have to feel
>lucky to find a 2
>point.
>
>Oh and I am ok with
>the Expo and conservation tags,
>because the truth is they
>are an overall benifit to
>our wildlife. That is
>just a fact as much
>as us poor peasant average
>joes want it not to
>be so.
I have NEVER understood this concept. IF selling premium tags to the highest bidder is such a great concept and so lucrative, why isn't the state just doing it themselves? Why is the "cash strapped" DWR letting third parties pocket the cash? SFW/MDF exist solely to further SFW/MDF. These "conservation tags"(notice these heros of conservation don't donate anything, they trade for tags without waiting periods or draws) could be put up on ANY site(KSL, Craigslist, etc..) and sold the exact same way with the state pocketing 100% of the money. We wouldn't have to give SFW tags, give them tax exempt status, give them HUGE tax breaks for the expo, then get the price of the tag while SFW/MDF make bank. The whole process can be done by 1 IT guy in his moms basement. 20 years ago, maybe SFW could make a point that they were needed to administer these "special" tags, but like everything else they became obsolete with technology.
You want to get rid of the CANCER that is SFW, lobby the state to run their own "special" program to make sure the deep pockets can get what they want. Then we can see how much they do for wildlife based soley on donations, not gift tags from the state.
Do gotta give THE DON on thing, he is VERY effective. He knows that he is enemy #1 of the MAJORITY of the hunters in the state, he knows that his activities are watched all the time, and he still gets his people EVERYWHERE he wants them, guy has stones as big as boulders!
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>of your average joe requirments
>other than feeling lucky to
>shoot a 2 point every
>year. I dont need
>a tag every year nor
>do I feel lucky to
>hunt in a state that
>I should have to feel
>lucky to find a 2
>point.
>
>Oh and I am ok with
>the Expo and conservation tags,
>because the truth is they
>are an overall benifit to
>our wildlife. That is
>just a fact as much
>as us poor peasant average
>joes want it not to
>be so.
I have NEVER understood this concept. IF selling premium tags to the highest bidder is such a great concept and so lucrative, why isn't the state just doing it themselves? Why is the "cash strapped" DWR letting third parties pocket the cash? SFW/MDF exist solely to further SFW/MDF. These "conservation tags"(notice these heros of conservation don't donate anything, they trade for tags without waiting periods or draws) could be put up on ANY site(KSL, Craigslist, etc..) and sold the exact same way with the state pocketing 100% of the money. We wouldn't have to give SFW tags, give them tax exempt status, give them HUGE tax breaks for the expo, then get the price of the tag while SFW/MDF make bank. The whole process can be done by 1 IT guy in his moms basement. 20 years ago, maybe SFW could make a point that they were needed to administer these "special" tags, but like everything else they became obsolete with technology.
You want to get rid of the CANCER that is SFW, lobby the state to run their own "special" program to make sure the deep pockets can get what they want. Then we can see how much they do for wildlife based soley on donations, not gift tags from the state.
Do gotta give THE DON on thing, he is VERY effective. He knows that he is enemy #1 of the MAJORITY of the hunters in the state, he knows that his activities are watched all the time, and he still gets his people EVERYWHERE he wants them, guy has stones as big as boulders!
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
Smellybuck, Quick question. You ask the question have you ever wanted more general tags, then you say does it offend you when you see a lot of hunters on a general hunt. As for more limited entry units, Now aware of any new ones for a while but do know that two units were changed this year to general hunts. At the Wild Life Board last year did you know that SFW pushed NOT to have tags cut? SFW has advocated for more general hinting opportunities. Did you know that when the conservation tag situation started, there were 12 sheep tags state wide? Now because of the money raised off the conservation tags, look what has happened with the sheep. Ten times the tags. Sure some tags were taken out of the general draw but in return look at the tags that were added because of the money raised by those rich guys you hate.
Found this Statement off SFW's Website..From their Claims and Truths PDF...
"At least 95% of all public land tags go to public land hunters. From 1998 to 2012, the number of quality permits on public land has more than doubled. This means more tags in the state's limited entry drawing for Utah's public land hunters."
Interesting that it means that more tags in the States LE Areas but NOT in the General units across the state. Have the General units of the state doubled like the LE units they claim have?
Tallbuck1
"At least 95% of all public land tags go to public land hunters. From 1998 to 2012, the number of quality permits on public land has more than doubled. This means more tags in the state's limited entry drawing for Utah's public land hunters."
Interesting that it means that more tags in the States LE Areas but NOT in the General units across the state. Have the General units of the state doubled like the LE units they claim have?
Tallbuck1
>Smellybuck, Quick question. You
>ask the question have you
>ever wanted more general tags,
>then you say does it
>offend you when you see
>a lot of hunters on
>a general hunt. As
>for more limited entry units,
> Now aware of any
>new ones for a while
>but do know that two
>units were changed this year
>to general hunts. At
>the Wild Life Board last
>year did you know that
>SFW pushed NOT to have
>tags cut? SFW has
>advocated for more general hinting
>opportunities. Did you know
>that when the conservation tag
>situation started, there were 12
>sheep tags state wide?
>Now because of the money
>raised off the conservation tags,
>look what has happened with
>the sheep. Ten times
>the tags. Sure some
>tags were taken out of
>the general draw but in
>return look at the tags
>that were added because of
>the money raised by those
>rich guys you hate.
Sheep Tags.....Really......Have you ever been to a Utah FNAWS banquet. Talk about feeling out of place. I believe my friend calls these people "The Elite". 30K-50K for one tag. I thought some here were speaking about the regular guy!! This group wants and waits for nothing!! Of course the Sheep situation has improved,....what better way to get your Grand Slam,...than improve the playing field. I know some guys from Ogden Valley area that want a Moose permit, that are not very happy about the Moose situation in their area now, at the expence of improveing Sheep in Utah!! Transplanting/Exchangeing Moose for Sheep.
>ask the question have you
>ever wanted more general tags,
>then you say does it
>offend you when you see
>a lot of hunters on
>a general hunt. As
>for more limited entry units,
> Now aware of any
>new ones for a while
>but do know that two
>units were changed this year
>to general hunts. At
>the Wild Life Board last
>year did you know that
>SFW pushed NOT to have
>tags cut? SFW has
>advocated for more general hinting
>opportunities. Did you know
>that when the conservation tag
>situation started, there were 12
>sheep tags state wide?
>Now because of the money
>raised off the conservation tags,
>look what has happened with
>the sheep. Ten times
>the tags. Sure some
>tags were taken out of
>the general draw but in
>return look at the tags
>that were added because of
>the money raised by those
>rich guys you hate.
Sheep Tags.....Really......Have you ever been to a Utah FNAWS banquet. Talk about feeling out of place. I believe my friend calls these people "The Elite". 30K-50K for one tag. I thought some here were speaking about the regular guy!! This group wants and waits for nothing!! Of course the Sheep situation has improved,....what better way to get your Grand Slam,...than improve the playing field. I know some guys from Ogden Valley area that want a Moose permit, that are not very happy about the Moose situation in their area now, at the expence of improveing Sheep in Utah!! Transplanting/Exchangeing Moose for Sheep.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,122
From Ryan's email on the Utah sub-forum;
"I bleed SFW and will continue that commitment."
"I bleed SFW and will continue that commitment."
My Opinion is that over the past 10 years SFW has focused on Sheep and sheep hunting in Utah. Don't get me wrong as it is a good thing for those wanting to hunt sheep and see sheep in Utah...
***BUT***
When SFW Elite got the sheep bug after hunting with Arctic Red River Outfitters (See all the client photos off there website wearing SFW gear for the past 10 years), SFW forgot about the other big game in the state except for when it came to selling the HIGH DOLLAR TAGS!!! Elk objectives have suffered, Mule Deer have suffered (Hunting season restrictions and tag numbers dropping on General areas). Moose have been on the decline for the past 8 years or so... Sheep craze followed here in Utah with Karl Malone and Don shelling out BIG BUCKS to transplant sheep and ensure there buddies could buy sheep tags. The Full Curl Society was formed (since Wild Sheep foundation was not part of the expo anymore), so they could then have another means (conservation group) to sell more tags. Ryan Foutz took over UTFNAWS as president and Antelope Island became a Hot topic for sheep hunting. Again, all in the name of the General Hunter and giving us more opportunity for drawing a LE deer, Elk or OIL tag right???
But it really has only helped line the pockets of the Elite and fill up there buddies Man Rooms with Sheep at the cost of Deer, Elk and Moose in Utah and the cost of a general hunter opportunities for building memories with the next generation.
Remember when SFW started and the focus was building Utah's Elk herd from 60K to 85K? Well that is done and they had to find some other means to raise money and Sheep was the golden ticket so please don't try to pull one over my eyes...
Tallbuck1
***BUT***
When SFW Elite got the sheep bug after hunting with Arctic Red River Outfitters (See all the client photos off there website wearing SFW gear for the past 10 years), SFW forgot about the other big game in the state except for when it came to selling the HIGH DOLLAR TAGS!!! Elk objectives have suffered, Mule Deer have suffered (Hunting season restrictions and tag numbers dropping on General areas). Moose have been on the decline for the past 8 years or so... Sheep craze followed here in Utah with Karl Malone and Don shelling out BIG BUCKS to transplant sheep and ensure there buddies could buy sheep tags. The Full Curl Society was formed (since Wild Sheep foundation was not part of the expo anymore), so they could then have another means (conservation group) to sell more tags. Ryan Foutz took over UTFNAWS as president and Antelope Island became a Hot topic for sheep hunting. Again, all in the name of the General Hunter and giving us more opportunity for drawing a LE deer, Elk or OIL tag right???
But it really has only helped line the pockets of the Elite and fill up there buddies Man Rooms with Sheep at the cost of Deer, Elk and Moose in Utah and the cost of a general hunter opportunities for building memories with the next generation.
Remember when SFW started and the focus was building Utah's Elk herd from 60K to 85K? Well that is done and they had to find some other means to raise money and Sheep was the golden ticket so please don't try to pull one over my eyes...
Tallbuck1
8mmMag, Yes there are tags at the FNAWS that sell for a lot of money. That money must go back into the sheep and that is were the transplants of sheep are coming from. True with more sheep tags, more tags are auctioned but also more tags are going to as you say, the average joe.
As for the moose population dropping, and trading moose for sheep, I am not aware of that and do not think it has happened. I know that Karl Malone spent over $100,000 dollars to bring in sheep out of state to be turned loose in Utah so he could hunt them. The moose are declining because of different issues. SFW has already donated $35 thousand dollars for the study of moose and has agreed to spend more, close to $100 thousand dollars to learn what is going on with the moose. You many not be aware that starting about three weeks ago the DWR started capturing cow moose and taking blood, teeth, measuring them and checking fat content then collaring them to keep track of them. There goal is to find out what is the biggest threat. Moose are subject to a worm that blocks the blood flow to the brain. Also the flies you see around horses eyes, they get with the moose and eventually cause blindness in moose. Yes the moose are declining, SFW and MDF have been working with the DWR to find out why and see if it can be fixed. I was at one of the moose captures and the biologist from the University of Wyoming who is doing the work stated that they are fighting the same problem in Wyoming. No where do I see that the deer and elk and moose are being sacrificed to increase the sheep. True it is getting harder to draw a tag, but the application for LE hunts increased by about 30 thousand people making it even harder to draw a tag.
As for the moose population dropping, and trading moose for sheep, I am not aware of that and do not think it has happened. I know that Karl Malone spent over $100,000 dollars to bring in sheep out of state to be turned loose in Utah so he could hunt them. The moose are declining because of different issues. SFW has already donated $35 thousand dollars for the study of moose and has agreed to spend more, close to $100 thousand dollars to learn what is going on with the moose. You many not be aware that starting about three weeks ago the DWR started capturing cow moose and taking blood, teeth, measuring them and checking fat content then collaring them to keep track of them. There goal is to find out what is the biggest threat. Moose are subject to a worm that blocks the blood flow to the brain. Also the flies you see around horses eyes, they get with the moose and eventually cause blindness in moose. Yes the moose are declining, SFW and MDF have been working with the DWR to find out why and see if it can be fixed. I was at one of the moose captures and the biologist from the University of Wyoming who is doing the work stated that they are fighting the same problem in Wyoming. No where do I see that the deer and elk and moose are being sacrificed to increase the sheep. True it is getting harder to draw a tag, but the application for LE hunts increased by about 30 thousand people making it even harder to draw a tag.
Here is a link for the Trade for Moose for sheep that I found quickly while searching google... I am sure there is more out there...
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...4shAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NJcFAAAAIBAJ&pg=7487,5293561
Also, most of what you bring up for researching and capturing moose to find out what is going on is happening NOW, why was nothing done for the past 5 or so years? Yes I am aware of the moose capturing as I am a passionate hunter who is involved and in the know about things going on with wildlife in the state.
Deer have not been as much of the focus over the past as SHEEP have and that is a known FACT that you cannot deny over the past 10 years. It wasn't till just the past 2 years that more studies and pressure to get deer hunting traditions and the herd population has been a priority to the states gov and wildlife board to find out why deer have truly been in a loosing battle.
Tallbuck1
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...4shAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NJcFAAAAIBAJ&pg=7487,5293561
Also, most of what you bring up for researching and capturing moose to find out what is going on is happening NOW, why was nothing done for the past 5 or so years? Yes I am aware of the moose capturing as I am a passionate hunter who is involved and in the know about things going on with wildlife in the state.
Deer have not been as much of the focus over the past as SHEEP have and that is a known FACT that you cannot deny over the past 10 years. It wasn't till just the past 2 years that more studies and pressure to get deer hunting traditions and the herd population has been a priority to the states gov and wildlife board to find out why deer have truly been in a loosing battle.
Tallbuck1
talbuck1, You got me there as I glanced through the paper but could not see the article you are referring to. I do see that the paper is in 1992 several years before SFW even came about. No I do not know a lot about the past. Only know what has been going on for the past few years when I decided to prove SFW was nothing more than someone trying to make a bunch of money. I decided to prove them wrong. Could not. Found out in my opinion that they are trying. If moose were traded for sheep I could not find the article. I am guessing it must have been with Colorado because they did send moose to Colorado. You are also right stating I am talking about what is going on now. In the last five years there have been situations where SFW and other groups have tried to do things. Just like when SFW decided to try to transplant deer this year, the DWR said it could not happen. It took several years to get this project going. That is why SFW could not use any conservation tag money for this project. They wanted to at least try. I was at Salt Lake when the DWR said you can not transplant mule deer as it would fail. Now they have done it with the permission of DWR and we will see if it will work.
You understand that transplants that take place on public land like Forest Service can not take place without the permission of the Forest Service. If they feel the animal is not indigenous to the area the answer is now. Then other ways must be figured out.
More moose will be captured in the near future. Hope others will get involved. It is a great learning experience.
This new director of the DWR is a person who will make changes and push to increase hunting opportunities for the future. I am excited as I have grand kids that are starting to get interested in hunting. I what to try to make a difference.
You understand that transplants that take place on public land like Forest Service can not take place without the permission of the Forest Service. If they feel the animal is not indigenous to the area the answer is now. Then other ways must be figured out.
More moose will be captured in the near future. Hope others will get involved. It is a great learning experience.
This new director of the DWR is a person who will make changes and push to increase hunting opportunities for the future. I am excited as I have grand kids that are starting to get interested in hunting. I what to try to make a difference.
If my memory serves me correct,.....it was 3 years ago that a petion was started from a man that lives in the Pineview area, and signed with many signatures at Kent's Gun Shop in Ogden. Given to a Utah State Rep. which went to the State Capital to stop the transplanting and tradeing of Moose because of the stiff decline in the Utah Moose herd.
>Here is a link for the
>Trade for Moose for sheep
>that I found quickly while
>searching google... I am
>sure there is more out
>there...
>
>http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...4shAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NJcFAAAAIBAJ&pg=7487,5293561
>
>Also, most of what you bring
>up for researching and capturing
>moose to find out what
>is going on is happening
>NOW, why was nothing done
>for the past 5 or
>so years? Yes I
>am aware of the moose
>capturing as I am a
>passionate hunter who is involved
>and in the know about
>things going on with wildlife
>in the state.
>
>Deer have not been as much
>of the focus over the
>past as SHEEP have and
>that is a known FACT
>that you cannot deny over
>the past 10 years. It
>wasn't till just the past
>2 years that more studies
>and pressure to get deer
>hunting traditions and the herd
>population has been a priority
>to the states gov and
>wildlife board to find out
>why deer have truly been
>in a loosing battle.
>
>
>
>Tallbuck1
If my memory serves me correct. A Utah biologist told me the DWR bases tag numbers being issued/herd status, based on the last 3 years of harvest reports on age and size. Unfortunately, the Utah DWR found out late, what many hunters in the field already did know. The numbers were down and so was the size. If you ask any man or lady that has hunted, camped, hiked the Ogden Valley, Unita North Slope, the number and size of Moose has been going down for 7-10 years. It's a shame we had to hit rock bottom before this was recognized!!! I know many hunters with 10-15 bonus points that are not worth .10 cents now!! "Little help here Please" Where was the Moose being transplanted a few years ago when the helicopter crashed up Parlies Canyon. If I remember correct a pilot and DWR employee died, I think they got cought up in some power lines!! I remember this being on the news!!
>Trade for Moose for sheep
>that I found quickly while
>searching google... I am
>sure there is more out
>there...
>
>http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...4shAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NJcFAAAAIBAJ&pg=7487,5293561
>
>Also, most of what you bring
>up for researching and capturing
>moose to find out what
>is going on is happening
>NOW, why was nothing done
>for the past 5 or
>so years? Yes I
>am aware of the moose
>capturing as I am a
>passionate hunter who is involved
>and in the know about
>things going on with wildlife
>in the state.
>
>Deer have not been as much
>of the focus over the
>past as SHEEP have and
>that is a known FACT
>that you cannot deny over
>the past 10 years. It
>wasn't till just the past
>2 years that more studies
>and pressure to get deer
>hunting traditions and the herd
>population has been a priority
>to the states gov and
>wildlife board to find out
>why deer have truly been
>in a loosing battle.
>
>
>
>Tallbuck1
If my memory serves me correct. A Utah biologist told me the DWR bases tag numbers being issued/herd status, based on the last 3 years of harvest reports on age and size. Unfortunately, the Utah DWR found out late, what many hunters in the field already did know. The numbers were down and so was the size. If you ask any man or lady that has hunted, camped, hiked the Ogden Valley, Unita North Slope, the number and size of Moose has been going down for 7-10 years. It's a shame we had to hit rock bottom before this was recognized!!! I know many hunters with 10-15 bonus points that are not worth .10 cents now!! "Little help here Please" Where was the Moose being transplanted a few years ago when the helicopter crashed up Parlies Canyon. If I remember correct a pilot and DWR employee died, I think they got cought up in some power lines!! I remember this being on the news!!
Bird man...
I know that most big game hunters are also passionate bird hunters...
Question, Has the Goose Trailers been actively used since the 2 years of Goose Transplants? Is SFW funding more of this to help with the Resident Goose problem on public and private land since 2008?
Question, what is SFW doing to help with the Frag problem out on the shores of the GSL? Is this a Priority to them? the answer is NO. Why? Who knows... I am sure don has taken his sons out waterfowl hunting and I am sure that the other elite go waterfowl hunting as well. In fact i know that Don has been out on Millionaire Duck club... WOW! But yet where does the average joe get to go and walk out miles to get to open water... Has more access be acquired to gain access to open water along the shore lines for public access?
SFW stepping up to ensure habitat for Pheasants, and transplanting more Chuckars, hat about Lek counts for Greater Sage Grouse across the state (not just on one mountain). What about Sharptail Grouse? Ensuring access to CRP land for Upland Game hunting? Of course you are going to say SFW does put up guzzlers and they help ALL species. Well you are correct, but they install the guzzlers for transplanting sheep! Look at the Newfoundland and the Stansburys...
Tallbuck1
I know that most big game hunters are also passionate bird hunters...
Question, Has the Goose Trailers been actively used since the 2 years of Goose Transplants? Is SFW funding more of this to help with the Resident Goose problem on public and private land since 2008?
Question, what is SFW doing to help with the Frag problem out on the shores of the GSL? Is this a Priority to them? the answer is NO. Why? Who knows... I am sure don has taken his sons out waterfowl hunting and I am sure that the other elite go waterfowl hunting as well. In fact i know that Don has been out on Millionaire Duck club... WOW! But yet where does the average joe get to go and walk out miles to get to open water... Has more access be acquired to gain access to open water along the shore lines for public access?
SFW stepping up to ensure habitat for Pheasants, and transplanting more Chuckars, hat about Lek counts for Greater Sage Grouse across the state (not just on one mountain). What about Sharptail Grouse? Ensuring access to CRP land for Upland Game hunting? Of course you are going to say SFW does put up guzzlers and they help ALL species. Well you are correct, but they install the guzzlers for transplanting sheep! Look at the Newfoundland and the Stansburys...
Tallbuck1
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,812
Smelly,
Just like I posted in my orginal post. Everybody trying to claim to be the voice of the average hunter. I am not sure why your definition is "THE" definition of the average hunter?
Expo and Conservation tags have not cut the oppurtunity in Utah it is the decline of deer that has cut the oppurtunity. 800,000+ deer and now we have 200,000. Your dammmn right I support a reduction of deer permits. Has nothing to do with being rich or average or poor. It has to do with being a responsible sportsman.
We live in a world that it takes money to accomplish certain things. I for one am thankful that some of these sportsman are willing to put money that I dont have into the investment of our wildlifes future.
Hope you are lucky enough to catch a two pointer and spike elk this season. I believe I'll probably be spending my time chasing big bulls on the Pahvant and bucks on the Paunsy. Good times for all!!!
Just like I posted in my orginal post. Everybody trying to claim to be the voice of the average hunter. I am not sure why your definition is "THE" definition of the average hunter?
Expo and Conservation tags have not cut the oppurtunity in Utah it is the decline of deer that has cut the oppurtunity. 800,000+ deer and now we have 200,000. Your dammmn right I support a reduction of deer permits. Has nothing to do with being rich or average or poor. It has to do with being a responsible sportsman.
We live in a world that it takes money to accomplish certain things. I for one am thankful that some of these sportsman are willing to put money that I dont have into the investment of our wildlifes future.
Hope you are lucky enough to catch a two pointer and spike elk this season. I believe I'll probably be spending my time chasing big bulls on the Pahvant and bucks on the Paunsy. Good times for all!!!
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,297
>Smelly,
>Just like I posted in my
>orginal post. Everybody trying
>to claim to be the
>voice of the average hunter.
> I am not sure
>why your definition is "THE"
>definition of the average hunter?
>
>
>Expo and Conservation tags have not
>cut the oppurtunity in Utah
>it is the decline of
>deer that has cut the
>oppurtunity. 800,000+ deer and
>now we have 200,000.
>Your dammmn right I support
>a reduction of deer permits.
> Has nothing to do
>with being rich or average
>or poor. It has
>to do with being a
>responsible sportsman.
>
>We live in a world that
>it takes money to accomplish
>certain things. I for
>one am thankful that some
>of these sportsman are willing
>to put money that I
>dont have into the investment
>of our wildlifes future.
>
>Hope you are lucky enough to
>catch a two pointer and
>spike elk this season.
>I believe I'll probably be
>spending my time chasing big
>bulls on the Pahvant and
>bucks on the Paunsy. Good
>times for all!!!
I will take this one. Oppurtunity has INCREASED. The Manti, and Nebo have been sacraficed at the hands of the banquets and expo. The Wasatch will be next. In order to get money for sheep or for projects where the money want better animals(Doyle "not guiding the governors tag"), the 2 biggest units in the state were sacraficed from near trophy, or trophy status, to what it is now.
Facts are a stubborn thing. SFW was going to give the average guy a say in wildlife. THE DON, Byron Bateman(who hunts Deseret), and now Ryan Foutz are average guys? Seriously? How many "average" dudes do you know that walk away from a 100k job for little compensation like Ryan is? How many average guys have hunted "over 30 times" with Karl Malone(young dudes, Karl made tens of millions playing basketball) how do you get in this stratosphere as an "average" guy? How did creating a deer hunt on AI that gives the bought tag a 5 day head start advocating for the little guy? GET FREAKING REAL!! The next time you run into THE DON on the general season deer hunt will be the first time. I know Byrons son, they don't hunt general season either, and I would bet Ryan doesn't. How do you advocate for the little guy having auctions where tags push over $200k? WHere you put on a "expo" where guides and outfitters sell "hunts" that cost more than the trucks the average guy drove there in? How do you increase access to anything by supporting stream bed restrictions? If SFW is for the little guy, why didn't they nominate one for the WB? SFW is for access, access to all the best units, without draws and waiting periods for anyone who can pay the price. For everyone else, they want to increase access to retiring from hunting.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>Just like I posted in my
>orginal post. Everybody trying
>to claim to be the
>voice of the average hunter.
> I am not sure
>why your definition is "THE"
>definition of the average hunter?
>
>
>Expo and Conservation tags have not
>cut the oppurtunity in Utah
>it is the decline of
>deer that has cut the
>oppurtunity. 800,000+ deer and
>now we have 200,000.
>Your dammmn right I support
>a reduction of deer permits.
> Has nothing to do
>with being rich or average
>or poor. It has
>to do with being a
>responsible sportsman.
>
>We live in a world that
>it takes money to accomplish
>certain things. I for
>one am thankful that some
>of these sportsman are willing
>to put money that I
>dont have into the investment
>of our wildlifes future.
>
>Hope you are lucky enough to
>catch a two pointer and
>spike elk this season.
>I believe I'll probably be
>spending my time chasing big
>bulls on the Pahvant and
>bucks on the Paunsy. Good
>times for all!!!
I will take this one. Oppurtunity has INCREASED. The Manti, and Nebo have been sacraficed at the hands of the banquets and expo. The Wasatch will be next. In order to get money for sheep or for projects where the money want better animals(Doyle "not guiding the governors tag"), the 2 biggest units in the state were sacraficed from near trophy, or trophy status, to what it is now.
Facts are a stubborn thing. SFW was going to give the average guy a say in wildlife. THE DON, Byron Bateman(who hunts Deseret), and now Ryan Foutz are average guys? Seriously? How many "average" dudes do you know that walk away from a 100k job for little compensation like Ryan is? How many average guys have hunted "over 30 times" with Karl Malone(young dudes, Karl made tens of millions playing basketball) how do you get in this stratosphere as an "average" guy? How did creating a deer hunt on AI that gives the bought tag a 5 day head start advocating for the little guy? GET FREAKING REAL!! The next time you run into THE DON on the general season deer hunt will be the first time. I know Byrons son, they don't hunt general season either, and I would bet Ryan doesn't. How do you advocate for the little guy having auctions where tags push over $200k? WHere you put on a "expo" where guides and outfitters sell "hunts" that cost more than the trucks the average guy drove there in? How do you increase access to anything by supporting stream bed restrictions? If SFW is for the little guy, why didn't they nominate one for the WB? SFW is for access, access to all the best units, without draws and waiting periods for anyone who can pay the price. For everyone else, they want to increase access to retiring from hunting.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,812
hoss,
Where did I state that those guys were average joe hunters?
I was addressing lost oppurtunity. And the fact is that it has been lost because the deer herd has gone from 800,000+ down to 200,000. And it should have been lost.
Without the Expo I would be able to apply for either deer, elk, or pronghorn. And either, rocky mountain bighorns, deseret bighorms, rocky mountain goats, moose, or bison. With the EXPO I am able to put in for all of them I call that more oppurtunity!!!
Where did I state that those guys were average joe hunters?
I was addressing lost oppurtunity. And the fact is that it has been lost because the deer herd has gone from 800,000+ down to 200,000. And it should have been lost.
Without the Expo I would be able to apply for either deer, elk, or pronghorn. And either, rocky mountain bighorns, deseret bighorms, rocky mountain goats, moose, or bison. With the EXPO I am able to put in for all of them I call that more oppurtunity!!!
>Smelly,
>Just like I posted in my
>orginal post. Everybody trying
>to claim to be the
>voice of the average hunter.
> I am not sure
>why your definition is "THE"
>definition of the average hunter?
>
>
>Expo and Conservation tags have not
>cut the oppurtunity in Utah
>it is the decline of
>deer that has cut the
>oppurtunity. 800,000+ deer and
>now we have 200,000.
>Your dammmn right I support
>a reduction of deer permits.
> Has nothing to do
>with being rich or average
>or poor. It has
>to do with being a
>responsible sportsman.
>
>We live in a world that
>it takes money to accomplish
>certain things. I for
>one am thankful that some
>of these sportsman are willing
>to put money that I
>dont have into the investment
>of our wildlifes future.
>
>Hope you are lucky enough to
>catch a two pointer and
>spike elk this season.
>I believe I'll probably be
>spending my time chasing big
>bulls on the Pahvant and
>bucks on the Paunsy. Good
>times for all!!!
Friend, I honestly dont know who you are, nor your experience or interest with the man spoken about in the origional post. But, there is alot more in this discussion than just conservation permits and expo permits and the money being generated for the DWR.. And rich hunters buying tags. To be honest, this is the least of my concerns!! Some her make posts because of what is going on, on the side lines. Their are more than just a few hunters here that have been members of SFW. Friends or co-workers of the "Big 5 of SFW" and "The Don". Some on MM have seen a little to much, heard a little to much, been privy to a little to much. The fact is SFW and those that are the face of SFW, do not have the regular guy/public land hunter best interests at heart. Far to many decisions have been influenced not for all, but for what is best for a few. SFW was started in the begining to represent all sportmen. HENCE the name of their magazine "The Sportmens Voice". Of course SFW has done some great things as far as funding and co-funding with other groups, some great and much needed wildlife projects. The DWR is just short on funds and needs some help. We all agree on this, right!! But, at what cost to ALL UTAH SPORTSMEN!!! And what gain to a few!! Does anyone really think they would have so much influence if they did not give back where it is needed. Its what slips between the cracks that up sets many. I dont want to call out specifics....But I damn sure know enough to have a opinion here on this matter. And it is not 5th hand information either!! I am sure all the men in these conservation groups started out with good intentions, great ideas, hopes and dreams. But, the fact is money and power corrupts. To often personal interest and personal gains influence decision makeing here in this state that effects us all. Do you really think someone from these groups that has not hunted on public land for over 20 years has the same passion or hopes as the man hunting Monte, or Echo, or the Unita's. You think the guy paying 200K gives a damn about the joke of a hunt the public deals with every year on public land. Until we all hunt under the same rules and hunt dates set down by the DWR,....nothing will change!!! I'm done!!
>Just like I posted in my
>orginal post. Everybody trying
>to claim to be the
>voice of the average hunter.
> I am not sure
>why your definition is "THE"
>definition of the average hunter?
>
>
>Expo and Conservation tags have not
>cut the oppurtunity in Utah
>it is the decline of
>deer that has cut the
>oppurtunity. 800,000+ deer and
>now we have 200,000.
>Your dammmn right I support
>a reduction of deer permits.
> Has nothing to do
>with being rich or average
>or poor. It has
>to do with being a
>responsible sportsman.
>
>We live in a world that
>it takes money to accomplish
>certain things. I for
>one am thankful that some
>of these sportsman are willing
>to put money that I
>dont have into the investment
>of our wildlifes future.
>
>Hope you are lucky enough to
>catch a two pointer and
>spike elk this season.
>I believe I'll probably be
>spending my time chasing big
>bulls on the Pahvant and
>bucks on the Paunsy. Good
>times for all!!!
Friend, I honestly dont know who you are, nor your experience or interest with the man spoken about in the origional post. But, there is alot more in this discussion than just conservation permits and expo permits and the money being generated for the DWR.. And rich hunters buying tags. To be honest, this is the least of my concerns!! Some her make posts because of what is going on, on the side lines. Their are more than just a few hunters here that have been members of SFW. Friends or co-workers of the "Big 5 of SFW" and "The Don". Some on MM have seen a little to much, heard a little to much, been privy to a little to much. The fact is SFW and those that are the face of SFW, do not have the regular guy/public land hunter best interests at heart. Far to many decisions have been influenced not for all, but for what is best for a few. SFW was started in the begining to represent all sportmen. HENCE the name of their magazine "The Sportmens Voice". Of course SFW has done some great things as far as funding and co-funding with other groups, some great and much needed wildlife projects. The DWR is just short on funds and needs some help. We all agree on this, right!! But, at what cost to ALL UTAH SPORTSMEN!!! And what gain to a few!! Does anyone really think they would have so much influence if they did not give back where it is needed. Its what slips between the cracks that up sets many. I dont want to call out specifics....But I damn sure know enough to have a opinion here on this matter. And it is not 5th hand information either!! I am sure all the men in these conservation groups started out with good intentions, great ideas, hopes and dreams. But, the fact is money and power corrupts. To often personal interest and personal gains influence decision makeing here in this state that effects us all. Do you really think someone from these groups that has not hunted on public land for over 20 years has the same passion or hopes as the man hunting Monte, or Echo, or the Unita's. You think the guy paying 200K gives a damn about the joke of a hunt the public deals with every year on public land. Until we all hunt under the same rules and hunt dates set down by the DWR,....nothing will change!!! I'm done!!
S
SMELLYBUCK
Guest
You are completely missing my point.
I'm not trying to define average. I'm trying to help you see that your hunting ambitions are at odds with the general hunt. I don't care if you are average, extraordinary, or challenged. You do not represent the interests of hunters who like to participate in the general hunt!!!
A lot of exclusive minded hunters just need to speak their minds and say..."We hate the general hunt and would like to replace it with limited entry hunts." They try to side with general hunters for political purposes - you know how SFW always pretends to represent all sportsmen when advocating for policy changes to the state.
Every exclusive minded hunter has an ulterior explanation for why we should cut out the general hunt - biology, crowds, low numbers.....
What would it take for you to want to increase general deer tags and remove restrictions? High success rates? population 600,000? High percentage of mature bucks?
I suspect a lot of exclusive minded hunters would never want a general hunt again - not even one like the 60's. They don't like the crowds. They don't like the lack of fees. They don't like the feeling of common. They want to feel exclusive, like they have the whole place to themselves. I don't think public natural resources should be managed in a way that makes a select few feel exclusive.
I too would like to see a bigger deer herd with more mature bucks. I'm willing to sacrifice for this, but I don't think we have to have an exclusive hunting system to grow the deer herd.
I'm not trying to define average. I'm trying to help you see that your hunting ambitions are at odds with the general hunt. I don't care if you are average, extraordinary, or challenged. You do not represent the interests of hunters who like to participate in the general hunt!!!
A lot of exclusive minded hunters just need to speak their minds and say..."We hate the general hunt and would like to replace it with limited entry hunts." They try to side with general hunters for political purposes - you know how SFW always pretends to represent all sportsmen when advocating for policy changes to the state.
Every exclusive minded hunter has an ulterior explanation for why we should cut out the general hunt - biology, crowds, low numbers.....
What would it take for you to want to increase general deer tags and remove restrictions? High success rates? population 600,000? High percentage of mature bucks?
I suspect a lot of exclusive minded hunters would never want a general hunt again - not even one like the 60's. They don't like the crowds. They don't like the lack of fees. They don't like the feeling of common. They want to feel exclusive, like they have the whole place to themselves. I don't think public natural resources should be managed in a way that makes a select few feel exclusive.
I too would like to see a bigger deer herd with more mature bucks. I'm willing to sacrifice for this, but I don't think we have to have an exclusive hunting system to grow the deer herd.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,297
>hoss,
>Where did I state that those
>guys were average joe hunters?
>
>
>I was addressing lost oppurtunity. And
>the fact is that it
>has been lost because the
>deer herd has gone from
>800,000+ down to 200,000. And
>it should have been lost.
>
>
>Without the Expo I would be
>able to apply for either
>deer, elk, or pronghorn. And
>either, rocky mountain bighorns, deseret
>bighorms, rocky mountain goats, moose,
>or bison. With the EXPO
>I am able to put
>in for all of them
>I call that more oppurtunity!!!
>
But I thought SFW was going to save the mule deer? As for the expo, why with auction sites a dime a dozen do we need to give SFW tags for them to auction then give back SOME of the money to wildlife? The DWR couldn't just cut out the middle, third party and do it themselves and keep ALL the money? When someone can see KSL.com cut their gun section, and in 2HOURS have a new site up and running, why do we need SFW to do it? Face it, without the handout tags, SFW would fail. Other than helping in the prop 5 debate, can you name one other thing they are successful in other than sucking up state welfare?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>Where did I state that those
>guys were average joe hunters?
>
>
>I was addressing lost oppurtunity. And
>the fact is that it
>has been lost because the
>deer herd has gone from
>800,000+ down to 200,000. And
>it should have been lost.
>
>
>Without the Expo I would be
>able to apply for either
>deer, elk, or pronghorn. And
>either, rocky mountain bighorns, deseret
>bighorms, rocky mountain goats, moose,
>or bison. With the EXPO
>I am able to put
>in for all of them
>I call that more oppurtunity!!!
>
But I thought SFW was going to save the mule deer? As for the expo, why with auction sites a dime a dozen do we need to give SFW tags for them to auction then give back SOME of the money to wildlife? The DWR couldn't just cut out the middle, third party and do it themselves and keep ALL the money? When someone can see KSL.com cut their gun section, and in 2HOURS have a new site up and running, why do we need SFW to do it? Face it, without the handout tags, SFW would fail. Other than helping in the prop 5 debate, can you name one other thing they are successful in other than sucking up state welfare?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
First of all, the title of this is 'Former BO of SFW now on the wildlife board. I hope that he is but he is not and no one knows right now who will be. I do know he or she can not be from the central region. They have two. As for Ryan resigning from SFW, I do not know. I do know that he has been interested in finding a job that would give him some kind of retirement. He once told me that there is no retirement with SFW and he would like to find something to give him retirement. So I am guessing he found something and took it.
I don't know where all the big wigs of SFW hunt. Don't care. I have only hunted general season deer my whole life. In fact I drew my first limited entry tag last fall on muzzy elk. I have a ton of moose points and yes I would like to hunt moose before I die. Not sure I will be able to. My other goal is to shoot a whitetail which I have never been able to do. I am a guy that can not afford much but has a lot of ambition.
As for the goose situation. That is handled under the fed boys. They are complaining there are too many geese thus the spring hunts. Some states with no limit. So there will be not planting of geese in Utah. Thus I have not heard of SFW doing anything with the geese or ducks. As for the frag problem. By law no money from conservation tags can be used for that. Where Don hunts ducks and geese I do not know nor do I care. He made his money in engineering and can spend it any way he wants. And those people that are buddies with Karl Malone can hunt with him all they want. As for pheasants, SFW turned loose thousands of pheasants the day before the pheasant hunt and then again the second weekend for kids. They are also planning on turning thousands of hens loose this spring with some roosters hoping things will help the population. SFW has also put out guzzlers in areas that there are no sheep. They put them there for the WILDLIFE.
Now the fact that people with deep pockets buy conservation tags because they can for go the money helps all sportsmen. That money is ear marked for use for the animal that the tag was sold. 90% of all conservation tags go back to the DWR. The DWR has stated that they are not interested in running the conservation tags because of the hastle it would cause them. I would say to those that do not like the groups keeping 10% start up a group of their own and go after the tags and market them and give all the money to the DWR. The fact is the DWR needs the money and wants the money.
I am just a pee on when it comes to money and hunting. My big spending is a couple of days a year pheasant hunting on a private place. I love to hunt, just can not afford it. But looking at what is going on and attending the racs and WLB meetings and seeing what is going on I realize how these things really work. Most of what is said on MM is not true or hear say and I just wish people would take the time to find out what really happens and how it really works so they know what they are talking about.
I don't know where all the big wigs of SFW hunt. Don't care. I have only hunted general season deer my whole life. In fact I drew my first limited entry tag last fall on muzzy elk. I have a ton of moose points and yes I would like to hunt moose before I die. Not sure I will be able to. My other goal is to shoot a whitetail which I have never been able to do. I am a guy that can not afford much but has a lot of ambition.
As for the goose situation. That is handled under the fed boys. They are complaining there are too many geese thus the spring hunts. Some states with no limit. So there will be not planting of geese in Utah. Thus I have not heard of SFW doing anything with the geese or ducks. As for the frag problem. By law no money from conservation tags can be used for that. Where Don hunts ducks and geese I do not know nor do I care. He made his money in engineering and can spend it any way he wants. And those people that are buddies with Karl Malone can hunt with him all they want. As for pheasants, SFW turned loose thousands of pheasants the day before the pheasant hunt and then again the second weekend for kids. They are also planning on turning thousands of hens loose this spring with some roosters hoping things will help the population. SFW has also put out guzzlers in areas that there are no sheep. They put them there for the WILDLIFE.
Now the fact that people with deep pockets buy conservation tags because they can for go the money helps all sportsmen. That money is ear marked for use for the animal that the tag was sold. 90% of all conservation tags go back to the DWR. The DWR has stated that they are not interested in running the conservation tags because of the hastle it would cause them. I would say to those that do not like the groups keeping 10% start up a group of their own and go after the tags and market them and give all the money to the DWR. The fact is the DWR needs the money and wants the money.
I am just a pee on when it comes to money and hunting. My big spending is a couple of days a year pheasant hunting on a private place. I love to hunt, just can not afford it. But looking at what is going on and attending the racs and WLB meetings and seeing what is going on I realize how these things really work. Most of what is said on MM is not true or hear say and I just wish people would take the time to find out what really happens and how it really works so they know what they are talking about.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,122
>I just
>wish people would take the
>time to find out what
>really happens and how it
>really works so they know
>what they are talking about.
>
My sentiments exactly!
First of all, the title of this is "Former VP (Not BO, whatever that means.) of SFW now on the Utah WB????", which makes it a question, not a statement as you imply. You're correct that no one knows right now and therein lies the crux of this thread. Some think he's already been chosen, but many of us think we still have a chance to block it by contacting the Governor who makes the final choice. That's why this thread was started.
As for Ryan resigning from SFW, I also do not know, but what I do know is that it wasn't solely for the reason you suggest. While there is no retirement program for SFW, Ryan has been paid $96,000 or more per year since at least 2008 ($131,000 in 2009) as an officer of SFW (Secretary until 2011) and, at that rate, a simple Roth IRA would have given him all the retirement he needs had he stayed. Additionally, he resigned to become a partner with Kevin Pritchett and Jed Nelson in the ownership of King's Camo which makes him a self-employed business owner who has to designate his own retirement program which he could have done with SFW. And, FWIW, King's Camo is the "offical" camo of the EXPO, so he hasn't moved very far from SFW. And, as he stated in his email regarding his resignation, "I bleed SFW and will continue that commitment." That's why some of us are concerned about him joining John Bair as former SFW officers on the Wildlife Board.
I also don't care where the SFW (MDF, RMEF, FNAWS) bigwigs (or Karl Malone) hunt, but I do care that they are able to so heavily influence the Utah Legislature and Wildlife Board with proposals that increase their opportunities to do their kind of hunting while diminishing yours and mine. The increased buck to doe ratios, loss of statewide archery, unit by unit deer hunting, loss of 6,000 general season deer tags and $5 increase in permits for biologically questionable coyote control quickly come to mind, but there are others.
Although I have issues with Convention permits and CWMU permits and some issues with Conservation permits, I'm certainly not concerned that those organizations keep 10% of their Conservation permit money and I applaud them for the great work they've done. I hope they can continue doing their part, because they're an important part of the system. But so am I and so are you! In fact, the bulk of DWR's money is generated from the sales of licenses and permits to the general hunting and fishing public. It's folks like you and me that keep them afloat! Your peon spending is vital to the system because it's added to the peon spending of 400,000 sportmen (and women) and is as vital as the spending of 500 or so big-money sportmen. But to say that the buying of Conservation permits helps ALL sportmen isn't necessarily true and when the changes in the system generated by those big-money sportsmen begin to shove us aside, there's bound to be trouble brewing. If you pick and poke at the foundation long enough, the whole building will come down and everyone loses. Maybe not in my lifetime or yours, but it's bound to happen, and I, for one, will do all I can to prevent it.
I've been around a while and I know I don't know it all, certainly not even enough, but I do know that our hunting and fishing opportunities are being eroded for social reasons that have nothing to do with biology. And without fixing the social reasons, we'll have a hard time fixing the biology!
I encourage you to keep going to the RAC's and Wildife Board meetings so you really see how things work (or not). I learn something about human nature every time I go.
>wish people would take the
>time to find out what
>really happens and how it
>really works so they know
>what they are talking about.
>
My sentiments exactly!
First of all, the title of this is "Former VP (Not BO, whatever that means.) of SFW now on the Utah WB????", which makes it a question, not a statement as you imply. You're correct that no one knows right now and therein lies the crux of this thread. Some think he's already been chosen, but many of us think we still have a chance to block it by contacting the Governor who makes the final choice. That's why this thread was started.
As for Ryan resigning from SFW, I also do not know, but what I do know is that it wasn't solely for the reason you suggest. While there is no retirement program for SFW, Ryan has been paid $96,000 or more per year since at least 2008 ($131,000 in 2009) as an officer of SFW (Secretary until 2011) and, at that rate, a simple Roth IRA would have given him all the retirement he needs had he stayed. Additionally, he resigned to become a partner with Kevin Pritchett and Jed Nelson in the ownership of King's Camo which makes him a self-employed business owner who has to designate his own retirement program which he could have done with SFW. And, FWIW, King's Camo is the "offical" camo of the EXPO, so he hasn't moved very far from SFW. And, as he stated in his email regarding his resignation, "I bleed SFW and will continue that commitment." That's why some of us are concerned about him joining John Bair as former SFW officers on the Wildlife Board.
I also don't care where the SFW (MDF, RMEF, FNAWS) bigwigs (or Karl Malone) hunt, but I do care that they are able to so heavily influence the Utah Legislature and Wildlife Board with proposals that increase their opportunities to do their kind of hunting while diminishing yours and mine. The increased buck to doe ratios, loss of statewide archery, unit by unit deer hunting, loss of 6,000 general season deer tags and $5 increase in permits for biologically questionable coyote control quickly come to mind, but there are others.
Although I have issues with Convention permits and CWMU permits and some issues with Conservation permits, I'm certainly not concerned that those organizations keep 10% of their Conservation permit money and I applaud them for the great work they've done. I hope they can continue doing their part, because they're an important part of the system. But so am I and so are you! In fact, the bulk of DWR's money is generated from the sales of licenses and permits to the general hunting and fishing public. It's folks like you and me that keep them afloat! Your peon spending is vital to the system because it's added to the peon spending of 400,000 sportmen (and women) and is as vital as the spending of 500 or so big-money sportmen. But to say that the buying of Conservation permits helps ALL sportmen isn't necessarily true and when the changes in the system generated by those big-money sportsmen begin to shove us aside, there's bound to be trouble brewing. If you pick and poke at the foundation long enough, the whole building will come down and everyone loses. Maybe not in my lifetime or yours, but it's bound to happen, and I, for one, will do all I can to prevent it.
I've been around a while and I know I don't know it all, certainly not even enough, but I do know that our hunting and fishing opportunities are being eroded for social reasons that have nothing to do with biology. And without fixing the social reasons, we'll have a hard time fixing the biology!
I encourage you to keep going to the RAC's and Wildife Board meetings so you really see how things work (or not). I learn something about human nature every time I go.
elkfromabove, You are right. It was a question and not a statement. Most took it as a done deal. That it is not. I know that Ernie Perkins is from the North region and would suspect that the new member will also be from the north region. Not sure if there is another one from the north or not. If there is then the mew member can come from any region that does not have two members already.
With Ryan going to Kings then I would have to think it was for more money. Ryan has been in retail for many years and knows what and how to market things. He would be an excellent add to Kings. I do not know Jed but know Kevin really well and have done business with him.
One of the things that go on in this state is that not all agree on everything. There are those that do not like where the hunting is headed in this state and there are those that do. There are those that think special interest groups have to much power and then there are those that disagree. Right or wrong, things get done through lobbyists to state legislators and that is why they get there way. Opposing groups to what goes on need to do the same. Like it or not, that is the way the system works. There are lots of people that follow the special interest groups and like what they are doing. If not, they would not exist. But not all people agree on things. There will always be people that disagree but that does not make them any more right than those that they disagree with. We all have our own opinions. That is probably for the best. I really do not like the idea of if someone does not agree with me I will call them names and make fun of them. We all live in this world and most all on this sight have one thing in common, that being hunting. We all want the same thing but have different ways of going about it. I wish all luck in the draw this year. We all need it.
With Ryan going to Kings then I would have to think it was for more money. Ryan has been in retail for many years and knows what and how to market things. He would be an excellent add to Kings. I do not know Jed but know Kevin really well and have done business with him.
One of the things that go on in this state is that not all agree on everything. There are those that do not like where the hunting is headed in this state and there are those that do. There are those that think special interest groups have to much power and then there are those that disagree. Right or wrong, things get done through lobbyists to state legislators and that is why they get there way. Opposing groups to what goes on need to do the same. Like it or not, that is the way the system works. There are lots of people that follow the special interest groups and like what they are doing. If not, they would not exist. But not all people agree on things. There will always be people that disagree but that does not make them any more right than those that they disagree with. We all have our own opinions. That is probably for the best. I really do not like the idea of if someone does not agree with me I will call them names and make fun of them. We all live in this world and most all on this sight have one thing in common, that being hunting. We all want the same thing but have different ways of going about it. I wish all luck in the draw this year. We all need it.
