For all the bad management guys

HOLY GOOD GAWD!

I Mentioned Cutting 10 Tags That The UDWR Had Already Cut & THE KING Had A Come Apart!

Wait Till He See's the 8,350 The UDWR Cut!

I Can't Imagine How Mad The KING Will Be At The UDWR!

And I Quote:

In response, Utah cut the number of available big game hunting permits for the fifth year in a row.

Sorry I Ruined Your Day Niller!

But It Wasn't Me That Cut Em!

The Good Thing Is:

Hossy Has His PISSCUTTER/OPPORTUNIST Tag & That's All That Matters!

Don't Believe Me?

Just Ask Him For Yourself!
 
elkassassin said:
HOLY GOOD GAWD!

I Mentioned Cutting 10 Tags That The UDWR Had Already Cut & THE KING Had A Come Apart!

Wait Till He See's the 8,350 The UDWR Cut!

I Can't Imagine How Mad The KING Will Be At The UDWR!

And I Quote:

In response, Utah cut the number of available big game hunting permits for the fifth year in a row.

Sorry I Ruined Your Day Niller!

But It Wasn't Me That Cut Em!

The Good Thing Is:

Hossy Has His PISSCUTTER/OPPORTUNIST Tag & That's All That Matters!

Don't Believe Me?

Just Ask Him For Yourself!
Click to expand...
It is always about you
 
Goodness Bess…you are dense, but you are not THAT dense!

You’re illustrating my entire point. The only management strategy that has consistently been used the last 40 years is cutting tags. Yet you geniuses think cutting more will somehow finally change things after all these decades.

Maybe now you’re finally getting it through that thick skull?
 
Question For The KING?

Are Deer Numbers Rising In This State?

Or Are They Decreasing?

Vanilla said:
Goodness Bess…you are dense, but you are not THAT dense!

You’re illustrating my entire point. The only management strategy that has consistently been used the last 40 years is cutting tags. Yet you geniuses think cutting more will somehow finally change things after all these decades.

Maybe now you’re finally getting it through that thick skull?
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Question For The KING?

Are Deer Numbers Rising In This State?

Or Are They Decreasing?
Click to expand...

So with all the tag cuts deer numbers are still decreasing?

It's almost as if cutting tags, DOESN'T WORK.


SO, of course, let's do it again, and see it not work, then again, then again over and over.

Because OBVIOUSLY, if we do it enough times and it doesn't work, then do it one more time and watch it not work.
 
If there was just somebody that could show up ten years ago and start telling people the truth instead of what they want to hear and get people to quit staring at fake arguments like "opportunity" and "expo tags". If that person could just see past the bull5h!+ and educate people on here about the failure of an entire wildlife system to be dynamic maybe we could start turning the ship. Maybe he would warn us that our bad decisions then were going to screw our kids out of hunting.

 
Can you even call it Management when they are not managing herds? they are managing tag numbers. Gotta make that money at all costs. ?
 
1692730422237.png


Man if we just knew some guy that warned everyone for years of the future while everyone attacked him.?
 
Vanilla said:
Goodness Bess…you are dense, but you are not THAT dense!

You’re illustrating my entire point. The only management strategy that has consistently been used the last 40 years is cutting tags. Yet you geniuses think cutting more will somehow finally change things after all these decades.

Maybe now you’re finally getting it through that thick skull?
Click to expand...
I'd argue the most used strategy(and detrimental), in Idaho at least, is fire suppression. I don't hunt Utah or Colorado but those pretty cities next to the mountains eat up a lot of winter range.
 
Can you imagine if there was a guy that knew all aspects of the decline for the last couple of decades and was warning everyone about it but a bunch of people just wanted to argue about deer tags and not listen.

 
Tristate said:
Can you imagine if there was a guy that knew all aspects of the decline for the last couple of decades and was warning everyone about it but a bunch of people just wanted to argue about deer tags and not listen.

Click to expand...

Can you be more specific, theres a lot of dudes who have seen a biologically weak, non competitive species struggle
 
Tristate said:
Little birdies don't worry about fences. Everything is going to work out perfect for them.

Quit worrying about deer.
Click to expand...

When your good friend WLH shuts down his deer hunting operation ton"save the mule deer", I'll get concerned.

Until then, not so much
 
hossblur said:
So with all the tag cuts deer numbers are still decreasing?

It's almost as if cutting tags, DOESN'T WORK.


SO, of course, let's do it again, and see it not work, then again, then again over and over.

Because OBVIOUSLY, if we do it enough times and it doesn't work, then do it one more time and watch it not work.
Click to expand...
Let's just give unlimited tags and end this agony faster....
 

I heard someone reported me to these folks. I am being investigated as an interdimensional time traveler who only cares about saving mule deer.
 
Not Only NO!

But HELL NO We Haven't Missed That Part About You Being An OPPORTUNIST!

Did You NOT Read Post # 2?

You Want A Tag Every Year!

You Want Others To Cut Their Tags Up Before Season!

You Wanna Hunt A PISSCUTTER Every Year!

You Wanna Shoot a PISSCUTTER Every Year!

In Your Mind Bucks Are Worthless!

Well!

You're Kinda Right!

If You Don't Let Them Grow Up They Ain't Much Good!

But At Least You Got Your OPPORTUNITY TO BE AN OPPORTUNIST & Shoot That Lil Ole PISSCUTTER Because In Your Mind He Does No Good & Is No Good!

And Yes For The Billionth Time We've Heard You Say:

Bucks Don't Have Babies!

And The Does That Get Shot Every Year,Well Guess What?

They Don't Have Babies Either!

Keep Poundin Them!

When They're Completely Gone I'm Sure The DWR Will Still Be Willing To Sell You Your OPPORTUNIST Tag So You Can Still Go Hunting For Something That Isn't There Anymore But BY GAWD You'll Still Have Your OPPORTUNITY!





















hossblur said:
Have you missed the Im an OPPURTUNIST line I've typed at least 300 times?
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Not Only NO!

But HELL NO We Haven't Missed That Part About You Being An OPPORTUNIST!

Did You NOT Read Post # 2?

You Want A Tag Every Year!

You Want Others To Cut Their Tags Up Before Season!

You Wanna Hunt A PISSCUTTER Every Year!

You Wanna Shoot a PISSCUTTER Every Year!

In Your Mind Bucks Are Worthless!

Well!

You're Kinda Right!

If You Don't Let Them Grow Up They Ain't Much Good!

But At Least You Got Your OPPORTUNITY TO BE AN OPPORTUNIST & Shoot That Lil Ole PISSCUTTER Because In Your Mind He Does No Good & Is No Good!

And Yes For The Billionth Time We've Heard You Say:

Bucks Don't Have Babies!

And The Does That Get Shot Every Year,Well Guess What?

They Don't Have Babies Either!

Keep Poundin Them!

When They're Completely Gone I'm Sure The DWR Will Still Be Willing To Sell You Your OPPORTUNIST Tag So You Can Still Go Hunting For Something That Isn't There Anymore But BY GAWD You'll Still Have Your OPPORTUNITY!
Click to expand...


I want guys to STFU, and start ACTING.

Do not come in here crying about tag cuts and shutdowns AFTER YOU AND YOUR FAMILY HUNTED DEER.

Not AFTER. If it is so bad, that YOU believe not having hunters in the field is the cure START WITH YOURSELF, THEN YOUR KIDS, Then The REST OF YOUR CIRCLE BEFORE The season.

BUT, don't come in here, after YOU GOT YOUR HUNT, and demand others lose theirs.

You, your kids, your circle, stay home. Think how many deer you saved. Do it for 5 years, look how great the herds will be.

That's why I 100% support LE or OTC draws. Let's let the "quality" crowd back their mouths and sit for decades in order to draw a "quality" tag, without the 2nd choice of going OTC. Leave the rest of us to chase pisscutters.

Finally, AND I EXPECT AN ANSWER,

If large numbers of bucks are so important to herd strength, why does the rut happen, expanding energy, fat reserves, and causing injury, right as winter is starting leaving bucks more likely to die in winter? Perhaps mother nature knows something? Like bucks are only good for sperm in the long run?
 
hossblur said:
I want guys to STFU, and start ACTING.

Do not come in here crying about tag cuts and shutdowns AFTER YOU AND YOUR FAMILY HUNTED DEER.

Not AFTER. If it is so bad, that YOU believe not having hunters in the field is the cure START WITH YOURSELF, THEN YOUR KIDS, Then The REST OF YOUR CIRCLE BEFORE The season.

BUT, don't come in here, after YOU GOT YOUR HUNT, and demand others lose theirs.

You, your kids, your circle, stay home. Think how many deer you saved. Do it for 5 years, look how great the herds will be.

That's why I 100% support LE or OTC draws. Let's let the "quality" crowd back their mouths and sit for decades in order to draw a "quality" tag, without the 2nd choice of going OTC. Leave the rest of us to chase pisscutters.

Finally, AND I EXPECT AN ANSWER,

If large numbers of bucks are so important to herd strength, why does the rut happen, expanding energy, fat reserves, and causing injury, right as winter is starting leaving bucks more likely to die in winter? Perhaps mother nature knows something? Like bucks are only good for sperm in the long run?
Click to expand...
How about AFTER someone tells you what's happening decades ago and all you do is talk crap about high fences?????? Or expo tags???????


For the longest time you were an epileptic with your finger on the trigger of the gun in your mouth and all you wanted to do was talk crap about who made the bullets.
 
And while we are forever blaming the decline of deer herds on the killing (or not killing) of pisscutters or trophies/mature/quality bucks, cheatgrass keeps expanding and killing sagebrush, bitterbrush, native grasses, forbs and herbs all over the nation (including Texas and Hawaii) which mule deer need to survive! But maybe there's hope for a developed solution to our little insignificant dilemma yet now that cheatgrass fires, unfortunately, have taken the lives of well over 100 PEOPLE in Maui, with 800+ missing. It now has the attention of the whole world.
 
Tristate said:
How about AFTER someone tells you what's happening decades ago and all you do is talk crap about high fences?????? Or expo tags???????


For the longest time you were an epileptic with your finger on the trigger of the gun in your mouth and all you wanted to do was talk crap about who made the bullets.
Click to expand...

Decades ago? You mean like when we were told in the 90's if we'd just cut 130,000 tags it would "save the mule deer", and yet, here we are at 90's population numbers?

Don't let math and facts get in the way of creating your newest personna
 
hossblur said:
Decades ago? You mean like when we were told in the 90's if we'd just cut 130,000 tags it would "save the mule deer", and yet, here we are at 90's population numbers?

Don't let math and facts get in the way of creating your newest personna
Click to expand...
I didn't tell you that.
 
HOLY *****!

I Knew I'd Probably Touch A Nerve!

Yes Hossy!

We Know What YOU Want!

But You Don't Wanna Practice The Same BS As You Preach!
 
Bess, I have a dedicated tag. Not sure how much more of an opportunist I can be in Utah. So do both of my boys.

How many tags you and your kids got?
 
Unfortunately I can't magicly roll back time or instantly make more mule deer.

I can only tell you what the future holds and how to avoid it. Maybe next time give your hurt ego a rest and listen to the people who actually can help you.
1692835599364.png
 
Tristate said:
Unfortunately I can't magicly roll back time or instantly make more mule deer.

I can only tell you what the future holds and how to avoid it. Maybe next time give your hurt ego a rest and listen to the people who actually can help you.
View attachment 118335
Click to expand...
I am sure I will be ridiculed for asking, but what would you do to fix things if you were in charge?

Mark
 
middlefork said:
Almost like there is a conspiracy.

Mule Deer Working Group – WAFWA

wafwa.org wafwa.org
Click to expand...
This org. has been around a long time. In my opinion, as a Western org what apparently includes every western State and holds its self up as a focal point to look to for guidance and solutions, it may actually be largely responsible for the very long term mule deer decline, in all western States.

When you raise your hand and say look to me for the answers, maybe they better start taking the heat for the consequences of their failed guidance.
 
newguy said:
I am sure I will be ridiculed for asking, but what would you do to fix things if you were in charge?

Mark
Click to expand...
There's hundreds of things I would change. From now on you have to get accurate ANNUAL population estimates. After that no more harvest management for opportunity. Every single tag is calculated and issued and expected to be a dead deer. 100% of all big game tags are auctioned from here on. We massacre the predators.

This is just the beginning.
 
Tristate said:
There's hundreds of things I would change. From now on you have to get accurate ANNUAL population estimates. After that no more harvest management for opportunity. Every single tag is calculated and issued and expected to be a dead deer. 100% of all big game tags are auctioned from here on. We massacre the predators.

This is just the beginning.
Click to expand...
I don’t think auctioning off all of the tags is realistic but they could certainly charge a lot more than they do especially for resident tags, but really no state has found the price limit for nonresident tags, while saying this I would hate to see families priced out of hunting.

Do you think predators are the single biggest problem and is money what is stopping the agencies from dealing with them or is it other things?

Not looking for a debate here just asking questions,

Mark
 
Could you imagine caring SOOO much about what other people think that you sit and post on a state’s forum you don’t even live in?

There are some folks that need life adjustments, no doubt!
 
Maybe Somebody Better Start Listening!

He's PISSED Hossy Off Already!

Vanilla said:
Could you imagine caring SOOO much about what other people think that you sit and post on a state’s forum you don’t even live in?

There are some folks that need life adjustments, no doubt!
Click to expand...
 
He don’t have the ability to pizz me off Bess. It’s beyond his capabilities or capacity.

He ain’t the only one.
 
newguy said:
I don’t think auctioning off all of the tags is realistic but they could certainly charge a lot more than they do especially for resident tags, but really no state has found the price limit for nonresident tags, while saying this I would hate to see families priced out of hunting.

Do you think predators are the single biggest problem and is money what is stopping the agencies from dealing with them or is it other things?

Not looking for a debate here just asking questions,

Mark
Click to expand...
They could set up an online auction very easily now. 20 years ago it might not have been possible. As for non res tags not finding a ceiling, that's what I am hoping for. As for families being priced out of hunting, it's too late to worry about that. The resource has to be saved now. I told people this was going to happen and they were screwing our descendants out of hunting. Now it's a reality.

No I do not believe predators is the single biggest problem. But they are a real problem and a quick way to stabilize populations in a growth direction. Laziness keeps the agencies from stopping them and money is the acceptable excuse.
 
Tristate said:
They could set up an online auction very easily now. 20 years ago it might not have been possible. As for non res tags not finding a ceiling, that's what I am hoping for. As for families being priced out of hunting, it's too late to worry about that. The resource has to be saved now. I told people this was going to happen and they were screwing our descendants out of hunting. Now it's a reality.

No I do not believe predators is the single biggest problem. But they are a real problem and a quick way to stabilize populations in a growth direction. Laziness keeps the agencies from stopping them and money is the acceptable excuse.
Click to expand...
I understand the urgency and I also understand the frustration and the “outside the box problem solving” solution suggestions TriState. I believe outside the box solutions are the only way this ever get turned around BUT, I can’t get behind the auction concept, other than the need for huge capital that is going to be needed. I would prefer a broad sharing structure where sportsmen all, as a whole community, step up and pay whatever it costs to run the program… together. If that mean 10x or a 100x more $ for a tag, so be it. All those that wanted to hunt could belly up and pay the “fee” and the others could spend their money on a trip to Paris or go ski in Austria, or go play 9 at the municipal golf course. I believe, to keep the life style, for those that want it, need to pick the life style they want and pay the price the life style costs, as a like minded group…….. not as competitors.

An auction is the purest form of capitalism but I don’t believe it’s the answer to public hunting……… unless we are going to give in and privatize it completely.

I’ve said, the youth need to plan to hunt on private property in the future…… because there will hardly be anything left to hunt on public lands. And that’s a fact, as I see it. But if this conversation about is saving the lifestyle and it is for me, it’s public land hunting that needs to addressed. That’s my wish but it certainly isn’t my expectation.

In truth, private land hunting is very very close to going full on auction sales for their hunts already.
 
Tristate, I hardly ever agree with what you have to say, but I am in partial agreement with you on this one. However, for you to say you told people they were being cheated out of their inheritance was just underscored by you wanting mule deer being auctioned off to the highest bidder. Do you have a taxidermy business or what. I am getting up there in years and have seen it all, from the best to the worst. Most of us old timers have seen the Mule Deer herd being decimated at every turn thru the big one being mismanagement, but drought, and hard winters have to be included as a reason. Even taxidermy has added to the problem - - why? Your statement of money being an acceptable excuse. Taxidermy and Guide Services have made it an acceptable excuse with Big Game Boards, Politician's, and Land Owners. And yes, with your attitude - You!. If I was the governor I would put in the most active, honest, sportsman and the poorest to hold some of those positions, not landowners, guides, and the richest ones. So NO, money is not an ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE. No you don't deserve any accolades. You would give it to the rich and take it from the poor. Give those credits to the Old-Ones who have seen this coming for more years than you probably have been on this earth. The ones who have tried to do something about which has made them unpopular with the DWR, Big Game Boards, and yes even Sportsmen Groups of which some are very short sighted. Not most, but some.
I used to hear from the DWR biologists that the browse was eating down by the deer, now they say its to high and old with little nutrition value, can't hunt predators like we use to. See one - shoot it. Now the bear populations are exploding. Lets never forget the elk - They are a problem for the deer. If you hunt animals as long as we do. They will be driven to the valleys - thus being exterminated by does hunts and landowners, directly or indirectly. I have only touched on the surface. The Game Management people are using drought and harsh winters as a reason. I call it an excuse. Isn't it a reason? If they would do drastic things they can do something about. Then it becomes a reason. If they carry on the way they have. Then it becomes an EXCUSE.
 
2lumpy said:
I understand the urgency and I also understand the frustration and the “outside the box problem solving” solution suggestions TriState. I believe outside the box solutions are the only way this ever get turned around BUT, I can’t get behind the auction concept, other than the need for huge capital that is going to be needed. I would prefer a broad sharing structure where sportsmen all, as a whole community, step up and pay whatever it costs to run the program… together. If that mean 10x or a 100x more $ for a tag, so be it. All those that wanted to hunt could belly up and pay the “fee” and the others could spend their money on a trip to Paris or go ski in Austria, or go play 9 at the municipal golf course. I believe, to keep the life style, for those that want it, need to pick the life style they want and pay the price the life style costs, as a like minded group…….. not as competitors.

An auction is the purest form of capitalism but I don’t believe it’s the answer to public hunting……… unless we are going to give in and privatize it completely.

I’ve said, the youth need to plan to hunt on private property in the future…… because there will hardly be anything left to hunt on public lands. And that’s a fact, as I see it. But if this conversation about is saving the lifestyle and it is for me, it’s public land hunting that needs to addressed. That’s my wish but it certainly isn’t my expectation.

In truth, private land hunting is very very close to going full on auction sales for their hunts already.
Click to expand...
Your feelings on the matter make sense but I don't believe it will work in a real world scenario. I think the intent and principles are good but it leaves to much open for the government to screw up. I guarantee if the government is deciding and setting prices on these tags it will turn into a committee based beaurocracy that just chews into funds we can't afford to loose for the actual work that needs to be done.

I do believe you are correct that my design is pushing public hunting towards capitalism, AND I AGREE. But treating game tags like a socialist system while the rest of the nation operates in a form of capitalism has actually created problems for managing wildlife in the US. But it doesn't mean that hunting has to be privatized completely.

I agree with you that wildlife on private lands seems to be the future of hunting in the US but I believe a minority of public hunters can exist within that future.
 
Well, Utah has always allowed free yearound coyote hunting. In fact, they pay you to kill them! And we now can shoot an unlimited number of cougars yearound with just a hunting license and/or trap them with a trapping license!

However, the auction may or may not save the deer depending on how the money is used, but it certainly will become a rich man's sport, so what would be the point for the majority of Utah's hunters?
 
cannonball said:
Tristate, I hardly ever agree with what you have to say, but I am in partial agreement with you on this one. However, for you to say you told people they were being cheated out of their inheritance was just underscored by you wanting mule deer being auctioned off to the highest bidder. Do you have a taxidermy business or what. I am getting up there in years and have seen it all, from the best to the worst. Most of us old timers have seen the Mule Deer herd being decimated at every turn thru the big one being mismanagement, but drought, and hard winters have to be included as a reason. Even taxidermy has added to the problem - - why? Your statement of money being an acceptable excuse. Taxidermy and Guide Services have made it an acceptable excuse with Big Game Boards, Politician's, and Land Owners. And yes, with your attitude - You!. If I was the governor I would put in the most active, honest, sportsman and the poorest to hold some of those positions, not landowners, guides, and the richest ones. So NO, money is not an ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE. No you don't deserve any accolades. You would give it to the rich and take it from the poor. Give those credits to the Old-Ones who have seen this coming for more years than you probably have been on this earth. The ones who have tried to do something about which has made them unpopular with the DWR, Big Game Boards, and yes even Sportsmen Groups of which some are very short sighted. Not most, but some.
I used to hear from the DWR biologists that the browse was eating down by the deer, now they say its to high and old with little nutrition value, can't hunt predators like we use to. See one - shoot it. Now the bear populations are exploding. Lets never forget the elk - They are a problem for the deer. If you hunt animals as long as we do. They will be driven to the valleys - thus being exterminated by does hunts and landowners, directly or indirectly. I have only touched on the surface. The Game Management people are using drought and harsh winters as a reason. I call it an excuse. Isn't it a reason? If they would do drastic things they can do something about. Then it becomes a reason. If they carry on the way they have. Then it becomes an EXCUSE.
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstood my statement. I do not feel that money is an acceptable excuse. I was trying to inform the readers that the wildlife agencies use money as an excuse and our leadership accepts it.

As for droughts and winter kill being acceptable excuses they are not. If proper management was done the effects of these limiting factors would diminish significantly.

The truth is when you have a population decline like this it is many factors coming together at once.

If you want to give the credit to old timers who said we were going to screw it up that's fine. You don't have to give me any credit at all. My point is people were telling people right here on these forums this one coming and most of the people here thought they would fix it with hate, ignorance, and infighting.
 
elkfromabove said:
Well, Utah has always allowed free yearound coyote hunting. In fact, they pay you to kill them! And we now can shoot an unlimited number of cougars yearound with just a hunting license and/or trap them with a trapping license!

However, the auction may or may not save the deer depending on how the money is used, but it certainly will become a rich man's sport, so what would be the point for the majority of Utah's hunters?
Click to expand...
I guess you have to love wildlife as much as you love hunting wildlife.
 
Classic.

Tri now is parroting Don Peay.

So, just for the slow folks.

In order to "save the mule deer", we must cut out avg hunters, sell off a limited amount of tags to deep pockets.

And, we need to kill coyotes.


Comical that Tri keeps talking about time machines as he plagiarizes Don Peays ideas from 93'.

And yes, it's just laziness that the DWR doesn't kill predators?
 
hossblur said:
Classic.

Tri now is parroting Don Peay.

So, just for the slow folks.

In order to "save the mule deer", we must cut out avg hunters, sell off a limited amount of tags to deep pockets.

And, we need to kill coyotes.


Comical that Tri keeps talking about time machines as he plagiarizes Don Peays ideas from 93'.

And yes, it's just laziness that the DWR doesn't kill predators?
Click to expand...
Keep making up crap and slinging it at the wall. You've done it for years and it hasn't worked. I bet it will this time.

Face it. I TOLD YOU SO.
 
Remember the old Midas commercial? "Pay me now or pay me later". The "Un-Action" of the DWR and Wildlife Board has almost made it to the Pay-Me-Later phase of Mule Deer. existence. Their smokescreen makes me sick. Then they had the main news media think that this is all happened this year because of the drought and last years hard winter. They were just counting on this past winter. Are they lucky or what! I don't think there is a conspiracy with them. I just think they drink too much Kool-Aid together and don't know any better. Seen a bunch of sheep in the mountains one time, single file all in a row. They went where the head sheep went. They just take each others advice. Their Motto is: ALL SPORTSMEN LIE. Really sad.

I guess this person South of the Payson/Dixon Line needs to write the Governor again. Hope all of you do the same. He really reads your comments.
 
Tristate said:
Still the same behavior for the past umpteen years and you can't figure out its hurting you.
[/QUOTE


How?

While your sitting in Houston, I'll be hunting starting tomorrow, until possibly into Nov.

You confuse trophy hunting, livestock killing(the Texas model), and opportunity.

All I need is the OPPURTUNITY. If I fail, it's on me, not the DWR, or in your case, a guide.

Mule deer are struggling everywhere they are found, including Texas.

Selling more tags to rich dudes I'm sure helps the taxidermy industry, but it doesn't change the factors affecting deer.

And, those factors aren't going to change because folks want houses, freeways aren't going anywhere.


But, let's say your right, we are fighting over who shoots the last deer.

Then it damn well should be avg Joe, not Jimmy John.
Click to expand...
 
cannonball said:
Remember the old Midas commercial? "Pay me now or pay me later". The "Un-Action" of the DWR and Wildlife Board has almost made it to the Pay-Me-Later phase of Mule Deer. existence. Their smokescreen makes me sick. Then they had the main news media think that this is all happened this year because of the drought and last years hard winter. They were just counting on this past winter. Are they lucky or what! I don't think there is a conspiracy with them. I just think they drink too much Kool-Aid together and don't know any better. Seen a bunch of sheep in the mountains one time, single file all in a row. They went where the head sheep went. They just take each others advice. Their Motto is: ALL SPORTSMEN LIE. Really sad.

I guess this person South of the Payson/Dixon Line needs to write the Governor again. Hope all of you do the same. He really reads your comments.
Click to expand...

When you look at the WB, how many are from the commercial side? Outfitters, guides, orgs.

If you believe there is a management issue, maybe start with those that set policy?

How many tags do you and your family have?
 
Hoss,

I have a tag. 3 other tags in family.

Seems like dudes know your calling bullshit on them, so they don't answer that question.

I give tge Antis WAY more credit. They have beliefs and will buy tags and tear them up to support those beliefs.

None of these guys you keep challenging have beliefs or they'd do the same. Which is the genius of your video challenge, and now this question.

I didn't realize dungeons and dragons were so popular in Houston
 
Tristate said:
Your feelings on the matter make sense but I don't believe it will work in a real world scenario. I think the intent and principles are good but it leaves to much open for the government to screw up. I guarantee if the government is deciding and setting prices on these tags it will turn into a committee based beaurocracy that just chews into funds we can't afford to loose for the actual work that needs to be done.

I do believe you are correct that my design is pushing public hunting towards capitalism, AND I AGREE. But treating game tags like a socialist system while the rest of the nation operates in a form of capitalism has actually created problems for managing wildlife in the US. But it doesn't mean that hunting has to be privatized completely.

I agree with you that wildlife on private lands seems to be the future of hunting in the US but I believe a minority of public hunters can exist within that future.
Click to expand...
When the modern west was young, infrastructure was much in need, especially power, irrigation, transportation, mail circulation, etc. Various Public Utility Regulator type systems were established, they served two primary purposes, to grow the service and protect the public from monopolies and monopolistic style capitalists. It was a successful solution for many decades but like all human systems, man’s innate ability to circumvent gates and find a way to “corner cross” (to use a MM understood term) any system, given enough time. Eventually these Public Utility Regulatory systems became fraught with as much or more corruption as the monopoly itself. Which is exactly the point you are make saying government can’t do this because government is or becomes come as corrupt as the monopolistic captivated. And…. You’re right, it does. That’s completely true but the same can be said about capitalists, left to their own, they are either corrupt or in time they become corrupt. Checks and balances must be put in place regardless of the ideology running the program. That’s where a free public must play its roll and that is to step forward and keep both government and free enterprise from monopolizing and abusing the system that was built to provide the solution.

Right now, the monopolistic capitalist is in bed with the government……. the absolute worst way to run a county. So………. Back to your discussion on auction sales to pay for wildlife restoration. If…… and it is certainly a huge IF, some kind of system came out of a State using my “shared” approach for funding, a Regulator system would have to be established that would have to be closely monitored by the “share holders” and crush corruption for as long as it could, hopefully, long enough to regrow healthy wildlife herds again.

The Pipe Dreams of a passing generation, wanting the best for our children and grandchildren.
 
You caught how many guys buy tags yearly then *****? Why it's almost as if they are,....... wait for it........... opportunists

@elkassassin .

How many tags in the fam this year?
 
2lumpy said:
When the modern west was young, infrastructure was much in need, especially power, irrigation, transportation, mail circulation, etc. Various Public Utility Regulator type systems were established, they served two primary purposes, to grow the service and protect the public from monopolies and monopolistic style capitalists. It was a successful solution for many decades but like all human systems, man’s innate ability to circumvent gates and find a way to “corner cross” (to use a MM understood term) any system, given enough time. Eventually these Public Utility Regulatory systems became fraught with as much or more corruption as the monopoly itself. Which is exactly the point you are make saying government can’t do this because government is or becomes come as corrupt as the monopolistic captivated. And…. You’re right, it does. That’s completely true but the same can be said about capitalists, left to their own, they are either corrupt or in time they become corrupt. Checks and balances must be put in place regardless of the ideology running the program. That’s where a free public must play its roll and that is to step forward and keep both government and free enterprise from monopolizing and abusing the system that was built to provide the solution.

Right now, the monopolistic capitalist is in bed with the government……. the absolute worst way to run a county. So………. Back to your discussion on auction sales to pay for wildlife restoration. If…… and it is certainly a huge IF, some kind of system came out of a State using my “shared” approach for funding, a Regulator system would have to be established that would have to be closely monitored by the “share holders” and crush corruption for as long as it could, hopefully, long enough to regrow healthy wildlife herds again.

The Pipe Dreams of a passing generation, wanting the best for our children and grandchildren.
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Well said.

But as long as the politician appoints the regulator(WB) it won't happen.

We did it to ourselves. We bought into cutting all those tags, with it went the clout and $$$. Into the void stepped a private interest group. The costs of management didn't go down, so those with the money had outsized power.

The system is set up to keep corporate hunting in power yearly, so it's no surprise corporate interests are taken care of, while the avg dude gets the scraps.

LET THEM EAT CAKE
 
Tristate said:
Well you finally said something that was true.

But the problem is its going to keep getting worse because you didn't learn anything from it.
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We did.

Fortunately all the surrounding states learned from us to, which is why $fw is a one trick pony.

But as to your points. Utah finds itself nearly Texas. If guys like me would shut up, $fw and their ilk would complete the transformation of Utah into total corporate state.

Notice the guys bitching about deer are guys who keep getting squeezed into smaller and smaller areas while the corporate entities expand their coverage greatly.

Same amount of dudes on smaller landscapes will always equal game going to less pressure areas.

We have the same deer issues as every mule deer state.

But our biggest issue outside of that, isn't fixed by management. It's only fixed in ballot boxes. But because, we did it to ourselves, we gave up political power for a fairy tale, and so that's the reality.

The DWR can't manage capitol hill, and as long as the special interests write checks, they get what they want. Same as any other special interests
 
hossblur said:
We did.

Fortunately all the surrounding states learned from us to, which is why $fw is a one trick pony.

But as to your points. Utah finds itself nearly Texas. If guys like me would shut up, $fw and their ilk would complete the transformation of Utah into total corporate state.

Notice the guys bitching about deer are guys who keep getting squeezed into smaller and smaller areas while the corporate entities expand their coverage greatly.

Same amount of dudes on smaller landscapes will always equal game going to less pressure areas.

We have the same deer issues as every mule deer state.

But our biggest issue outside of that, isn't fixed by management. It's only fixed in ballot boxes. But because, we did it to ourselves, we gave up political power for a fairy tale, and so that's the reality.

The DWR can't manage capitol hill, and as long as the special interests write checks, they get what they want. Same as any other special interests
Click to expand...
Yeah run to the politicians. They save deer all the time.?‍♂️

Your still hating and blaming everything on the same people you did over 10 years ago. Didn't fix anything then and sure as hell won't fix anything now.
 
Tristate said:
Yeah run to the politicians. They save deer all the time.?‍♂️

Your still hating and blaming everything on the same people you did over 10 years ago. Didn't fix anything then and sure as hell won't fix anything now.
Click to expand...

The buck stops at the leader.

Your wrong.

It's been 20+ years, and you are correct, they didn't fix anything, and sure as hell won't now.

We literally are where we were when we were sold a myth.

Low deer numbers coming out of a brutal winter.

So what did we do? Cut more tags. But not $$ tags.

The avg guys gave up 150,000. When the corporate class gives up 2/3 of their tags, I'll be happy to listen. But, me sitting home so Jimmy John can hunt deer, doesn't improve herds, grow population, or improve hunting.

You want a tag = dead deer?

Fine. Stupid, but fine.

Ive advocated for years no points draws.

So if the answer is 20,000 tags, then so be it, as long as it's 1 man 1 chance. No buy outs, cons tags, raffle tags.

1 man=1 chance.

Good luck selling the outfitters and CWMU that saving the mule deer means giving up repeat guaranteed buisness yearly.

What you want is exactly what $fw wants.

Highest bidder benefitting of a publically owned asset
 
Tristate said:
I told you so.

No need to be bitter about it.

Hanging onto decades old anger won't change it.
Click to expand...

I don't have much hope of getting rid of the cancer. It's stage 4. Terminal. In the court of public opinion, Utah hunting isn't about food, family, tradition. It's about 6 figure contests among gazillionaires to shoot animals with names, that have been harassed 365 days a year.

Colorado follows California, Utah follows Colorado.

My only fight anymore is not giving up more of the young guys hunting future for the corporate guys. The money guys can keep their big schlong contests going, and dudes can pretend they are one of them, groveling for the leftovers every Feb.

But anger, nah, your stuck in Houston, I'm going bow hunting tomorrow. Life is good.
 
hossblur said:
I don't have much hope of getting rid of the cancer. It's stage 4. Terminal. In the court of public opinion, Utah hunting isn't about food, family, tradition. It's about 6 figure contests among gazillionaires to shoot animals with names, that have been harassed 365 days a year.

Colorado follows California, Utah follows Colorado.

My only fight anymore is not giving up more of the young guys hunting future for the corporate guys. The money guys can keep their big schlong contests going, and dudes can pretend they are one of them
Click to expand...
So for you it is ending exactly as I said it would.

Nothing more than an argument over who gets to kill the last deer.
 
Tristate said:
So for you it is ending exactly as I said it would.

Nothing more than an argument over who gets to kill the last deer.
Click to expand...

No. Argument is whether we cut our own throats, or let special interests do it

Difference is you try to sell magic pixy dust that if we enrich more outfitters and special orgs, magically everything is fixed. Cuz Denny killing AI deer sure did save the mule deer in this state, so of course we should double down

And, unlike you, I actually talk to dwr folks, they ain't exactly getting rich with all their greed.
 

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