First Ever WY Governors Wild Bison License

S

SMOKESTICK

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-13 AT 06:14PM (MST)[p]2013 Wyoming Governor's Complimentary Wild Bison License Reverse Raffle!

Tickets are $100 each or 3 for $150!

What is a Reverse Raffle?

Instead of the FIRST ticket drawn being the winning ticket, the LAST ticket drawn is the winner.

* Only 500 tickets will be sold
* All tickets must be purchased before the event

During the day of June 8th, tickets will be drawn and posted.
Your ticket may win a variety of prizes randomly distributed throughout the raffle. Even if you don't win the grand prize, there are other great prizes available as well.

Lonnie Stout, Cheyenne Store Manager for Sportsman's Warehouse, donated a Remington 700 rifle chambered in 300 Remington Ultra Mag. This item will be awarded prior to the Governor's Complimentary wild bison license, values at over $2500 (non-resident license cost).

To purchase tickets, visit www.wysfw.org and click on the provided link.

Over 5000 people applied for this license this year. This raffle will give you better odds, plus opportunities for additional prizes.

Need not be present to win.

Good luck to those that choose to participate!
 
What are the raffle proceeds going to be used for?

If they go to Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife I think I will pass.

Also, your math is seriously flawed. 5,000 people applied for 200 bison licenses. That's around 4% odds. On the nonresident side there were 1,056 applicants for 22 tags this year. That's just over 2% odds.

1 tag out of 500 tickets = .2% odds. You would have to buy 10 tickets at over $500 to get the same odds as the $20 paid to the state gets you.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-13 AT 08:49AM (MST)[p]npaden---Giving correct information on this website has never been a strong suit of his, LOL!!! Good decision! I see also the thread Header says it's a first ever license of it's type. I've not heard of that license being created/available, especially to the WYSFW!!! I wonder what gives on that and how it came about!
 
npaden,

Most of the money is returned to the state as it is a Governor's license.

I purchased the list from the WY G&F Department. There were over 5400 applicants included in that list.

Yes, the more tickets you buy the better your chances are at winning the license. The one thing you forgot to mention was that it cost you as a nonresident over $2500 for your license. Since this is a Complimentary license awarded by Governor Matt Mead, the license is free. In addition, if you were lucky enough to have drawn a low enough number to ensure that you are coming to hunt wild bison, you could actually win another license. Yes, you could actually take two bison in one year. I would think it would be funner to bring along a family member or friend as one bull is enough work for a long time.

The other thing is, if you have already used your once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, you are still eligible for this raffle and could take another wild bison.

No body is twisting your arm to purchase tickets for the raffle or to participate. I guess it all about how badly you want to hunt an iconic species of the west, from Jackson Hole, WY.
 
So Bob, what is "most" of the money and where did this Bison License come from all of a sudden? I've never seen it offered before and you say it's new and only the WYSFW appears to be involved in it's sale! How did it get created and how did WYSFW come up with it? These are legitimate questions that I believe people should know the answer to seeing as you're offering tickets for sale on a public website.
 
Can somebody SPLAIN to me what wysfw stands for?




The Dew I had for Breakfast wasn't Bad so I had one more for Dessert!:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-13 AT 09:38AM (MST)[p]>Can somebody SPLAIN to me what
>wysfw stands for?


It's the Wyoming Chapter of Sportsman for Fish & Wildlife that your good buddy Don Peay started in Utah!!! Smokestick (Bob Wharff) is the Executive Director of the Wyoming Chapter.
 
70% of the money is obligated to return to the Wyoming Governors Big Game License Coalition. WY SFW can retain up to 30% of the proceeds.

The reason you have never seen it offered before is because this is the FIRST one ever offered.

WY SFW asked Governor Mead for it and it was awarded to us.

It was Senate File 0149. Here is the link to the state legislative website: http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2013/billindex/BillCrossRef.aspx?type=ALL

You can look up SF0149 and it will provide you with additional information.
 
elkassassin,

WY SFW is Wyoming Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife.

It is a state organization of Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife; otherwise known as SFW.

As TOPGUN stated, I am Bob Wharff, aka) SMOKESTICK. I am the Executive Director of WY SFW.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-13 AT 10:01AM (MST)[p]Okay, so I see from reading this Bill that it increases the existing Governors Licenses by five Bison tags, two of which are for bulls. Where can I find the piece of legislation that allows SFW to keep 30%, rather than the standerd 10% that all sellers of the Governor's tags have been allowed to keep in the past? This looks like a real winner for SFW and patterned exactly like the Utah tag sales! Was the tag offered to all organizations before being given to WYSFW and will this tag be given to the WYSFW every year or will other worthwhile organizations have a chance at it and the other four tags? Again, these are all legitimate questions people should have answers to and not have to ferret out for themselves if everything was done on the up and up!!! I'm sure it was though because you've always said that the chapters are completely independent of Mr. Peay and the UTSFW started by him!
 
WY SFW is getting 30% because that is what we were told we would get. No one really knows how much money wild bison licenses will raise.

Really? What little bit of creditability you once had, you are now saying that this is similar to what Utah has for tag sales?

Since these license(s) are awarded by the Wyoming Governor, I guess it will be up to him to decide how he wants to awarded his Complimentary licenses and to whom they are awarded.

TOPGUN, you sure are inquisitive this morning.......
 
LMMFAO!

I knew I'd get a Reply!(Or two!):D





The Dew I had for Breakfast wasn't Bad so I had one more for Dessert!:D
 
If it has SFW behind it I'd be real skeptical. It all starts with 1 tag and the grabs goes up from there. I know Wyoming Fish and Game is strapped for cash but bringing in SFW is not the answer. I certainly hope sportsman speak up to the state in opposition.


"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."
 
>WY SFW is getting 30% because
>that is what we were
>told we would get.
>No one really knows how
>much money wild bison licenses
>will raise.
>
>Really? What little bit of
>creditability you once had, you
>are now saying that this
>is similar to what Utah
>has for tag sales?
>
>Since these license(s) are awarded by
>the Wyoming Governor, I guess
>it will be up to
>him to decide how he
>wants to awarded his Complimentary
>licenses and to whom they
>are awarded.
>
>TOPGUN, you sure are inquisitive this
>morning.......


***Credibility that I ONCE had, LOL! Give me a friggin break with more of your BS and YOUR credibility issues! You are an outright lobbyist that people just love and maybe I would even say a great conman who says just enough to try and get what he wants and keep people happy! How can you just be told that you'll get 30% unless there was a rules change increasing it from 10% to 30%? Also, what will any proceeds be used for when Bison are not managed by Wyoming like what the other species money goes for that those tags represent? Who presented this piece of legislation to the Senator and Representative that took it to the Legislature and got it passed? You are up there all the time for SFW and I would presume you were the one who asked for that tag, were you not? Being the upstanding organization that you have always stated WYSFW is, are you going to tell them you will only take 10% like has always been the case? Yea, I'm REAL inquisitive this AM and any other time that an organization with the SFW initials is involved in politics and big money involving wildlife! This whole thing reeks of stuff done under the table just like has happened in Utah, etc. and now it looks like it's come to Wyoming!!! IMHO the ******* is going to hit the fan in Wyoming when this crappolla is brought out before the general hunting community!!!
 
TOPGUN,

All this from the fruit cop? Give me a break!

You won't believe anything I say so I am done answering your silly questions. These licenses are no different than any other license. The link is provided for the bill. You can read it if you would like.

The licenses are awarded by Wyoming's Governor. The percentage must also be up to the Governor as they are the ones which offered the 30% (for a one-time only) split with WY SFW. Perhaps he has his reasons, I don't know as I didn't ask him.

From what I understand, there is no established split and it remains unknown as to whether or not a MOU exists as well. I have offered to help put everything in statute so that all parties can participate and on an even platform. We will see which direction the Governor wants to go with his Complimentary licenses. Of course, any action taken will also require involving the state legislators.

Nothing was or has been done under the table. That might be how you are accustomed to getting things done but that is not how WY SFW has operated. WY SFW realized there was a problem with too many wild bison on the National Elk Refuge (NER). They are competing for limited winter range and eating supplemental feed supplied for elk. Something needs to be done to bring them down in numbers. Perhaps Wyoming's Governor Mead understands the need to do something different. I don't know, you will need to ask him. You might also want to look at HB0041 as well. Of course, I think we all know, it isn't about learning anything about the issues only about attacking another sportsman's organization.

Maybe there is some fruit somewhere you can go protect. You better handle it as I have other fish to fry!
 
wyobackcountry,

No! These license are in addition to what was already offered. As far as I know, only one license will be issued this year. The law allows the Governor to issue up to 5 Complimentary licenses. This mirrors the other 4 species also available under current Wyoming statute.
 
Yup, this makes SFW even more legitimate with a lead spokesperson creating personal attacks in a public forum where potential future members and purchasers for the Buffalo raffle frequent.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."
 
There are sporting groups that "get it"...and some that dont.

Just sayin'...

Bigper20Gameper20Tags_Page_1.jpg


Link:

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=254814&highlight=RMEF
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-13 AT 12:31PM (MST)[p]Well now you're really coming down to what I thought you would to try and deflect away from what this thread is really about! FYI I've been retired for 11 years from a legitimate, meaningful 30 year LE job in consumer protection, but let's forget all that and just get right down to the BS you just posted. That's right, I said more BS, and that's just what it was. First of all, absolutely NONE of those questions I asked of you were "silly", as you stated, so why not answer them?! Are you kidding me and others with that nonresponsive post, LOL! You must think people reading this thread are stupid to put out what you did. I read the Bill and everything else on that link and even told you what was in it in my last post! You have now admitted that YOUR group took that request for those tags to the Legislators. I wonder if SFW was given one of those tags before any other organizations was even made aware that they existed, maybe as a payback? Naw, that would never happen! Funny, but I guess it was just a coincidence that you were given one of the tags and now the seller fee has also gone up to 30% for your services, LOL! I asked where the 30% came from and the answer you gave IMHO is far from a solid one for a person in your capacity who was instrumental in the passage of the Bill! If there isn't an enacting rule that gives 10% to the seller of the other 20 tags, there should be, and in any event why not just take 10% so that things are kept on the same level with the other groups? If not, why not? Your organization is not designed to be a money maker, so why not give that other 20% back if the Bison problem is so critical and when the G&F is in a budget crunch? FYI I don't do anything under the table, just as I don't put up with BS remarks from you or anyone else and will call them out on it every time! Therefore, I'll tell you that I knew all about this Bill and your 30% answer before you even posted it, but I asked because I wanted to see what kind of BS you would post after that original "most" sentence. Why not just say you keep 30% instead of "most" is given back in that original response? We both know why don't we, LOL!!! IMHO it was just another attempt to keep things you didn't want out to the public under wraps, which seems to be just the way SFW has operated in other states. I'm sure taking five animals with those tags is really going to help that dire situation that was the reason you designed that Bill too! The other post in which you say it appears that is the only Bison tag of the five that will be issued this year makes it look even worse and to say it mirrors the other 20 tags is false if WYSFW is getting 30% and other groups are getting 10%! Is this tag for a bull or a cow, as even in the website to buy tickets it doesn't say?
 
It seems to me that SFW is like a title loan. Game and fish needs money, gets it from these have real quick but end up paying way more than what they initially planned for. Kind of a shame to call yourself sportsmen for wildlife when all you are is a money making racket.....
 
Smokestick, may I ask what WSFW plans on spending the 30% on? How much of the 30% is going into WSFW member pockets such as yourself?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-13 AT 02:34PM (MST)[p]>2013 Wyoming Governor's Complimentary Wild Bison
>License Reverse Raffle!
>
>Tickets are $100 each or 3
>for $150!
>
>* Only 500 tickets will be
>sold
>
>Over 5000 people applied for this
>license this year. This
>raffle will give you better
>odds, plus opportunities for additional
>prizes.

This is the part of the original post that I think is just plain wrong. Anyway you cut it, this raffle doesn't give you better odds than just signing up for the draw like you normally would.

Nonresidents had 2% odds this year and residents had around 4% odds this year. $20 got you a draw chance.

This 1 chance in 500 tickets for 2 tenths of one percent odds. .2 percent.

For a nonresident your odds are TEN times better in the regular state run draw, for a resident your odds are closer to TWENTY times better in the regular state run draw.

A raffle ticket also costs FIVE times more than the regular draw.

You can try to sell the tickets however you want, but saying that the raffle will give you better odds is just flat wrong.
 
Smokestick,

What will WY SFW do with their 30% (up to $15,000)? Will WY SFW be asking for even more governor's tags in the future? Is this the WY SFW plan to make up the gap in Wyoming Division of Wildlife funding?
 
>I am sure I have better
>odds of being picked last,
>so I am in.


I was thinking the same thing!:D






The Dew I had for Breakfast wasn't Bad so I had one more for Dessert!:D
 
I got a letter in the mail. Got to "SFW" and tossed it.

Not a penny. Not in Utah. Not in WY. Not in MT. Not in ID.

Support RMEF for tag raffles and auctions or better just yet have the state handle the raffle. States will soon realize the hunting conventions NEED tags as part of being relevant so 0% should be provided to cover expenses including credit card fees.

Grow a pair and watch the conventions blink first.
 
grosventrehunter,

None of the money from this license will go towards personnel costs. I don't know what the Board will elect to do with but I can think of 2 options I would put forward to the Board.

One
There are currently 2 law suits challenging Wyoming's wolf management plan; one in Washington, D.C. and the other, here in Wyoming. WildEarth Guardians has asked the Wyoming court to dismiss their law suit and Wyoming (as well as all intervenor's including WY SFW & the USFWS) are asking the Wyoming court to NOT dismiss the law suit.

The Washington, D.C. law suit is a different matter. It will increase our costs to fight this battle in 2 separate fronts but that is the hand that has been dealt to Wyoming's sportsmen.

Two
I mentioned the need to reduce the size of the wild bison population as it is having a significant impact on the number over elk the National Elk Refuge (NER) can sustain on native feed and increasing overall costs of supplemental feed. Some may be unaware that WY G&F splits the feed costs 50/50 with the NER. WY SFW may offer the money up for augmenting that program. WY SFW has been one of the only groups which has rallied in defense of state ran elk feed grounds. Wyoming Outfitter & Guides Association (WYOGA) has also participated but to a lesser degree.

It will be the Boards decision not mine in where the money is allocated; however, I do know that it was never intended to cover operating costs of WY SFW.

Thanks for asking, though.
 
Utah400Elk,

I answered this question. I believe it is post #27.

I don't know how you came up with $15,000 but I believe it would be more like $7500.

No this is not WY SFW's plan to make up the gap in G&F funding. This is something that has been in the works for a few years.
 
npaden,

I guess it is all however you want to call it. Since this is a reverse raffle EVERY ticket will come out of the drum.

Yes, the raffle ticket cost more money; however, the license is FREE. That means if you are a non-resident, you are getting the license for 0.04% of the original cost of a license; and that is only if you buy 1 ticket at $100.

Like I said before, you can either enter the raffle or not. It still remains your choice.
 
>Utah400Elk,
>
>I answered this question. I
>believe it is post #27.
>
>
>I don't know how you came
>up with $15,000 but I
>believe it would be more
>like $7500.
>
>No this is not WY SFW's
>plan to make up the
>gap in G&F funding.
>This is something that has
>been in the works for
>a few years.


***Your math is still as fuzzy as the rest of your presentation! 500 tickets at $100 per ticket, if/when sold separately, brings in $50,000. 30% of $50,000 is the $15,000 he mentioned, not your $7,500 figure. I assume there will be a committee appointed that will decide where the 70% is spent just like there is on the 90% that the other four species tags take in. Why not give that extra 20% you're getting back to the G&F and let that committee decide how it's spent, rather than the public hoping that ANY of it is used for the benefit of anyone but the organization itself?
 
Anybody know when they'll be Raffling PISSCUTTER Tags?





The Dew I had for Breakfast wasn't Bad so I had one more for Dessert!:D
 
>npaden,
>
>I guess it is all however >you want to call it.
> Since this is a
>reverse raffle EVERY ticket will
>come out of the drum.
>
>
>Yes, the raffle ticket cost more
>money; however, the license is
>FREE. That means if
>you are a non-resident, you
>are getting the license for
>0.04% of the original cost
>of a license; and that
>is only if you buy
>1 ticket at $100.



>
>Like I said before, you can
>either enter the raffle or
>not. It still remains
>your choice.


***Who cares if the winning ticket is the first or last drawn, LOL?!!! The money spent on a ticket is still the same for the small chance of winning the tag just like npaden mentioned!
 
I guess I know that so far not one person has only bought one ticket. Most, apparently, have figured it out that it is cheaper if you but them 3 at a time instead of one at a time. At least I can now see how Utah400Elk came up with the $15,000 figure.

I didn't think you ever assumed anything!? I am just doing as I was instructed to do. BuzzH can confirm that as I know he knows as well. I am certain that there will be an accounting of the money and what/where it went towards.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-13 AT 06:21PM (MST)[p]Smokestack


Edit** Smokestick
Since you/SFW are so concerned about the buff population please explain the science of how one $OLD BULL bison tag helps reduce the population on the NEF?
 
I guess I'm the odd man out. I don't see a problem other than the 30%. We have auction tags up here, 2 per species I believe with 90% going to the Dept and specifically earmarked for access and habitat. The 10% commission going to the selling org can be used for anything.
A cpl tags per species, not pulled from the draw, generates some needed revenue. Just keep the tags in check and don't fall for the Utah model.
 
WapitiBob---The 30% is exactly the issue here. There is no reason to give a group more than 10% of the proceeds in these auctions/raffles, especially when that is the protocol on the the 20 tags that have already been in existence in this particular situation! It would appear that there is nothing in writing mandating the 10% that the groups are retaining since the program started under Governor Freudenthal, but rather it sounds like it has been more of a "gentlemen's agreement". IMHO that should change and the percentage should be stipulated in writing that 10% is the max before things grow and Wyoming becomes another Utah.
 
So, I am one of the "mis-informed" people out there that could be a possible supporter of something like this. Having said that, Smokestick (Bob) has flip-flopped in his responses enough that he reminds me of Obama on this thread.

Complete Bull shiit, if you ask me. No thank you, cannot participate in this pisscutter SFW fundraiser hunt.

For what it's worth, a little honesty & tact by the OP would go a mile to credibility here. And please, do not insult everyone here by sayng you are 100% honest & forthcoming.

Very sad indeed!
 
Not one penny of mine to SFW in any of its chapters or flavors.

I got sent a letter for this raffle and tossed it as soon as saw SFW was the pimp involved. God help Wyoming if SFW is the answer. UT and AZ see the backroom dealing and thankfully AZ grew a pair. Hopefully WY hunters will, too. UT is hopeless.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-13 AT 09:16PM (MST)[p]>We also have raffle tags but
>the raffle is conducted by
>the game dept directly, no
>middle man.

IMO this is the only way these tags should be handled since all wildlife are property of the people of the state whom entrust the State for proper over sight of the wildlife. There is absolutely no reason why the state can not earmark the funds raised from a tag auction for a specific cause.


"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."
 
WY SFW did not request the 30%, it is what was offered to us. I don't know if it came from the Governor's office or someone else; however, I do know that it was how it was presented to me.

It is interesting that TOPGUN mentions he would like to see the split in statute rather than leaving it to chance. I offered to take that action but was told not to by someone that is on the inside of the Wyoming Governor's Big Game License Coalition.

So WY SFW is getting vilified once again over something that is not written any where and is now being stated that it is more of a "gentleman's agreement". I guess since WY SFW has been intentionally excluded from this process WY SFW should have known all about this "gentleman's agreement"!

The truth is the current system excludes all but a limited number of organizations from obtaining Wyoming Governor's Complimentary Licenses. WY SFW is tired of being treated as a second class citizen. No where in this country has that ever been acceptable. If it is such a great program then why is it set up to exclude others?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-13 AT 10:07PM (MST)[p]Smokestick,

If you dont like the program, why did WYSFW push to add 5 more tags via legislative action?

Why have you taken tags a number of times in the past?

Why are you taking the "first ever Bison tag?"

Its a bit hypocritical to slam the program, but then take tags, and money, from the program you dont like.

Heres what the Governors tags have done.

Sheep:

http://www.whfw.org/_pdf/2012/June 2012/WGBGLC Sheep Projects.pdf

Moose:

http://www.whfw.org/_pdf/2012/June 2012/WGBGLC Moose Projects.pdf

Elk:

http://www.whfw.org/_pdf/2012/June 2012/WGBGLC Elk Projects.pdf

All wildlife:

http://www.whfw.org/_pdf/2012/June 2012/WGBGLC All Wildlife Projects.pdf

Deer:

http://www.whfw.org/_pdf/2012/June 2012/WGBGLC Deer Projects.pdf

That is as transparent as it gets, and one of the reasons the program really is a success and a big part of what makes it great.

It puts dollars on the ground for wildlife, wildlife habitat, research, etc. and that is the goal. Its about the wildlife, and thats how it should stay.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-13 AT 10:38PM (MST)[p]"WY SFW is tired of being treated as a second class citizen. No where in this country has that ever been acceptable. If it is such a great program then why is it set up to exclude others?"

People have been saying that in Utah for a while now. If tags are going to auction, they need to be spread out across all the states Orgs.
 
Excellent post BuzzH and others!!! Now the truth has really come out in that last post Smokestick made and I knew if he kept talking he would step on his ****! He's basicly not worried about the wildlife that these tags are designed to help, but rather that SFW gets a bigger piece of the action! Thus, go to the Legislature and get this Bison tag put into the program. That, in and of itself, may not be a big deal even if the SFW got all five tags, but to not turn down the 30% in favor of staying with the status quo speaks highly of the group IMHO! They are not being forced to take 30% and as I posted before, why not take the standard 10%, be happy you're now in the program and move on. IMHO the reason this whole thing was started by SFW was to get their foot in the door and if things go like I think they will the SFW will be back knocking on the door in the near future wanting more and more just as has happened in Utah! BuzzH can correct me if I'm mistaken, as I think he sits on the Moose Committee, but I believe the whole program was designed to have the various organizations that are dedicated to one particular species sell those tags for that species with the theory that they would be able to generate the most revenue for that particular species. That may not seem fair to some, especially reading the crybaby post by Smokestick, but the program was designed to help wildlife, not the WYSFW!!! Again, IMHO I think this whole deal is a true testiment to the way the SFW organization was started in Utah and continues to try and spread it's tenticles to the other western states under the guise of helping wildlife, when in actuality it's more to help the higher ups gain control of the various state fish & game agencies. God help us all if things grow in other states the way it has in Utah!!! Az stopped it before it even got started and Wyoming residents need to do the same IMHO!!! Sorry for my long posts, but as most on MM know, this issue is one that I will not let pass without a fight.
 
Topgun, Glad to see that you are gearing up for a fight. It will be interesting. In Utah SFW earns more money to put on the ground than any other organization. Second is MDF and a distant third is RMEF. As long as the money is coming in they will be around and doing all the good that they do. Other states have started to look at Utah's program and have been talking to Utah how it works. If they will follow is still up in the air but they are looking. This information comes from the WLB. You can check it out. It is in the minutes. It is good to see that Wyoming is looking at the program. Wyoming usually has a tag every year at the expo.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-13 AT 10:21AM (MST)[p]Topgun, Glad
>to see that you are
>gearing up for a fight.
> It will be interesting.
> In Utah SFW
>earns more money to put
>on the ground than any
>other organization. Second is
>MDF and a distant third
>is RMEF. As long
>as the money is coming
>in they will be around
>and doing all the good
>that they do.
>Other states have started to
>look at Utah's program and
>have been talking to Utah
>how it works. If
>they will follow is still
>up in the air but
>they are looking.
>This information comes from the
>WLB. You can check
>it out. It is
>in the minutes.
>It is good to see
>that Wyoming is looking at
>the program. Wyoming usually
>has a tag every year
>at the expo.


***Please save your posts regarding how great your group is for the Utah debate threads! Your UTSFW organization may take in more money than any other group in your state, but until they are completely transparent like the current Wyoming system is and show where ALL the money actually ends up I think maybe you need to remain quiet on this thread! Reading and believing your WLB comment and your thinking that Wyoming, other than WYSFW is looking at Utah, is a real stretch! If and when UTSFW does as RMEF has requested of all organizations involved in these raffle and auctions, maybe we'll talk again! Since they've been given plenty of time the last couple years to do that, I don't believe they have the clout you think they do in other areas. The debacle in AZ proved that and, yea, I know you'll say that didn't involve your group at all, so this comment will save you responding back about that, LOL! From what I see and am hearing it appears that the WYoming G&F isn't interested in the SFW way of doing things. Thus, the Legislative push the group is doing to try and be heard when most others in the know want them to go away and take all their BS with them!
 
My friend works for Idaho F&G, and said they are trying to get a foot hold in Idaho, and he said a " group of people" from Utah " LOBBIED" some of the legislature higher ups to oppose our governors bid for a lady rep. on the fish and game board, because she opposed any such group sprouting up in Idaho. Well she was voted down by one vote,and the thing that is against these Utah folks,are she was nominated by our governer! Big misstake, there's one thing you don't do is PISS OFF BUTCHY!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-13 AT 11:58AM (MST)[p]Birdman,

Bob says that WY SFW is not looking to follow Utah SFW's steps in regards to the conservation tags. He has gone out of his way to explain the two organizations are separate. Are you now suggesting that WY SFW is trying to follow Utah SFW's footsteps? Do you think the conservation organizations should get 30% of the proceeds from the tag sales for overhead?

Smokestick,

The math is simple, it has been explained but I find it funny/odd you didn't know the math before you started this thread. Also, you are saying that Matt Mead was the person that suggested WY SFW should keep 30% of the proceeds from this tag?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-13 AT 02:02PM (MST)[p]Tristate,

I'll answer your questions, even though I'm not sure why I should even bother.

Other than to point out the fact that I am involved in as an active participant regarding Wyomings wildlife and you arent.

You really have no reason to even respond to this thread, other than to make yourself look like a fool.

But...here we go.

That's right more hunting opportunity and yall are screaming like children.

Wrong, nobody is screaming about more opportunity, they are asking questions about how the bison were added to the Gov. tags, why one tag was given to WYSFW, and why WYSFW gets to keep 30% of the money when the sheep, moose, deer, and elk keep 10%. That is a legitimate question to ask, for a number of good reasons.

Do you ever ask the state DWR's out there where the hell all the money went?

Yes, and the WYG&F has provided proof to WYSFW as well as every hunter in this state that takes 5 minutes on a google search. They have shown significant budget cuts the last 2-3 years. Further, I provided links to where every penny of the current Gov. tag money has went since 2003. Did you bother to look at any of those?

Do you ever wonder why you have fewer and fewer hunting opportunities?

Not sure where you're getting this. I can legally take 3 elk, 2 buck deer, 2 buck antelope, 4 doe antelope, at least 4 doe deer, 2 wild turkeys, 2 mountain lions, a wolf, and a black bear every year. Wyoming also is the top, if not the top state in Bighorn sheep hunting opportunies. We issue more Bison tags than any state I'm aware of. Wyoming is also one of the top states in the number of moose tags issued. We dont have many goats, but still manage to give out a fair number of those as well.

Clearly, I'm not seeing fewer and fewer opportunities. I've seen more opportunity since I moved here in 2000.



Terrified someone is going to get a chance at "your" deer tag.

They are the Wyoming Citizens deer...no question of that, and crystal clear as part of the Public Trust Doctrine. Further affirmed by the passage of S.339

Now you are freaking out about an actual new hunting opportunity and where the 15k is going?

As the established owners of the game within the borders, Wyoming Residents have the absolute right to know where the money is going via the sale of the States Wildlife.

Look at the millions your game agencies piss away year after year with ZERO results.

Start another thread with zero results...I'll fill multiple pages of zero hunting results in Wyoming, including 180+ mule deer, 80+ pronghorn, and elk up to 370. I dont doubt your personal results are ZERO...mine arent.


then all you guys terrified you will have fewer tags next year don't even realize you weakened the whole system by paying virtually nothing for your tags year after year. You want to cry about money but nobody better actually make YOU pay what a tag is worth.

The one group that lobbied against any Resident, or Non Resident license fee increases was WYSFW. I testified, in person, in favor of license fee increases on Resident hunters multiple times. I didnt see you making any comments are even bothering to show up in Cheyenne.

You women don't care one bit over whether there is a future in hunting as long as yall can decide who gets to kill the last deer.

Yeah, right. I spend more time a year volunteering for, and supporting wildlife and the future of hunting than you do hunting and bitching on this forum. If people didnt care, then WYSFW would be running the show. Pretty obvious that enough people care to not allow that to happen.

Its also funny that you'd choose to post on this topic. I didnt see you testifying in Cheyenne, and I havent noticed your name popping up on any committees or any wildlife orgs. that are active in Wyoming.

That doesnt stop you from strapping on the velcro pants and showing the world your arse though.

Congratulations?
 
"Tristate,

I'll answer your questions, even though I'm not sure why I should even bother.

Other than to point out the fact that I am involved in as an active participant regarding Wyomings wildlife and you arent."

I am an active participant on these forums and the behavior of you anti-hunters on here is what concerns me. Not whther there is a buffalo tag in Wyoming. Your argument already isn't an argument.

"You really have no reason to even respond to this thread, other than to make yourself look like a fool.

But...here we go."

I respond to anti-hunting propaganda wherever it rears its ugly head.

"That's right more hunting opportunity and yall are screaming like children.

Wrong, nobody is screaming about more opportunity, they are asking questions about how the bison were added to the Gov. tags, why one tag was given to WYSFW, and why WYSFW gets to keep 30% of the money when the sheep, moose, deer, and elk keep 10%. That is a legitimate question to ask, for a number of good reasons."

LIKE I SAID "SCREAMING LIKE CHILDREN"! Just because you say it isn't doesn't make it so.

"Do you ever ask the state DWR's out there where the hell all the money went?

Yes, and the WYG&F has provided proof to WYSFW as well as every hunter in this state that takes 5 minutes on a google search. They have shown significant budget cuts the last 2-3 years. Further, I provided links to where every penny of the current Gov. tag money has went since 2003. Did you bother to look at any of those?"

I ain't talking about where they spent the money. I am talking about WHERE IS THE WILDLIFE GOING! If you know where the money went and you still don't have improved herds WHY WOULD YOU BE SATISFIED?

"Do you ever wonder why you have fewer and fewer hunting opportunities?

Not sure where you're getting this. I can legally take 3 elk, 2 buck deer, 2 buck antelope, 4 doe antelope, at least 4 doe deer, 2 wild turkeys, 2 mountain lions, a wolf, and a black bear every year. Wyoming also is the top, if not the top state in Bighorn sheep hunting opportunies. We issue more Bison tags than any state I'm aware of. Wyoming is also one of the top states in the number of moose tags issued. We dont have many goats, but still manage to give out a fair number of those as well."

That's great. Just thinking about what you have and no one else will take you far. WHy don't you ask the previous generations what kind of hunting opportunities they had and compare them to yours.

Clearly, I'm not seeing fewer and fewer opportunities. I've seen more opportunity since I moved here in 2000.


"Terrified someone is going to get a chance at "your" deer tag.

They are the Wyoming Citizens deer...no question of that, and crystal clear as part of the Public Trust Doctrine. Further affirmed by the passage of S.339"

Are you still buying that crap? They belong to the government and if you think they give flying flip what they do with "your" deer you are kidding yourself. By the way the IRS just collects taxes and Obamacare is going to save lives.

"Now you are freaking out about an actual new hunting opportunity and where the 15k is going?

As the established owners of the game within the borders, Wyoming Residents have the absolute right to know where the money is going via the sale of the States Wildlife."

OKYDOKY. SO you think you know where the money is going. It certainly isn't helping your wildlife. You think accountability is a dollar figure. Everyone else thinks accountability is PERFORMANCE.

"Look at the millions your game agencies piss away year after year with ZERO results.

Start another thread with zero results...I'll fill multiple pages of zero hunting results in Wyoming, including 180+ mule deer, 80+ pronghorn, and elk up to 370. I dont doubt your personal results are ZERO...mine arent."

SO that's all that matters is YOUR big deer or somebodies big pronghorn they killed. I have news for you buddy there is A LOT more to conservation and herd management than whether you took something to the taxidermist.


"then all you guys terrified you will have fewer tags next year don't even realize you weakened the whole system by paying virtually nothing for your tags year after year. You want to cry about money but nobody better actually make YOU pay what a tag is worth.

The one group that lobbied against any Resident, or Non Resident license fee increases was WYSFW. I testified, in person, in favor of license fee increases on Resident hunters multiple times. I didnt see you making any comments are even bothering to show up in Cheyenne."

Be realistic. I ain't buying plain tickets to Wyoming to argue with government officials who don't give a damn about the wildlife anyway. I'm not talking about raising a deer tag $50 either. I am talking about jacking those things a $1000 or more.

"You women don't care one bit over whether there is a future in hunting as long as yall can decide who gets to kill the last deer.

Yeah, right. I spend more time a year volunteering for, and supporting wildlife and the future of hunting than you do hunting and bitching on this forum. If people didnt care, then WYSFW would be running the show. Pretty obvious that enough people care to not allow that to happen."

You don't know how much time and money I drop into conservation so quit talking out of your butt.

"Its also funny that you'd choose to post on this topic. I didnt see you testifying in Cheyenne, and I havent noticed your name popping up on any committees or any wildlife orgs. that are active in Wyoming.

That doesnt stop you from strapping on the velcro pants and showing the world your arse though.

Congratulations?"

Once again that isn't even an argument. Seeing as this is what you call logic, I know why wildlife is doomed.
 
Topgun and Buzz

I appreciate the attempt but I think everybody knows you will have a better chance talking to a wall. Apparently accountability of public funds is now equal to anti-hunting.
 
Utah400elk,

Its not for tristates sake that I respond.

Nobody really pays any attention to his posts, but its a great way to prove your points with facts.

I do agree with you on the summation of tristates "thinking"...
 
"Utah400elk,

Its not for tristates sake that I respond.

Nobody really pays any attention to his posts, but its a great way to prove your points with facts.

I do agree with you on the summation of tristates "thinking"..."


Really????? Then send him a PM. The sole purpose of you posting that is so I would read it. I own you.

I take that back. I co-own you. SFW owns you also.

I don't mean the way that you think you own wildlife. I mean real ownership. The kind where you can't make logical arguments, or even realize what real threats are because you are too busy being owned.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-13 AT 03:57PM (MST)[p]"Really????? Then send him a PM. The sole purpose of you posting that is so I would read it. I own you"


Tristate it seems I am not the only one who "need(s) some self gratification going into the weekend keep living the dream."

And by the way I like some of the adjectives you selected this time:

"Listen to you bunch of women"

'You women don't care one bit over whether there is a future in hunting as long as yall can decide who gets to kill the last deer."

These ought to really make your mother proud. As for me I believe they speak loudly about your character and respect for others.
Although I have argued I have always tried to understand and give the benefit of doubt. I seldom find others I cannot find common ground and some respect for. However I am calling it as I see it, You are an azzhole. I am sure you will not agree but don't waste your time telling me about it.
 
Tristate: "I am an "AZZHOLE". I am not arguing that."

***It's hard to argue against facts, LOL!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-13 AT 05:30PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-13 AT 05:28?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-13 AT 05:27?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-13 AT 05:26?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-13 AT 05:24?PM (MST)

BuzzH,

You and I have already spoken about this but I can do it again.

Your first question: If you dont like the program, why did WYSFW push to add 5 more tags via legislative action?

The current system us set up to empower 4 organizations; Wild Sheep Foundation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Mule Deer Foundation, and North American Moose Foundation. These groups, as you already know, are listed as the Primary Sellers. All other groups are Secondary Sellers. The only way a Secondary Seller can obtain a license is if a Primary Seller is willing to offer or make available to that group.

I did not like the program because it excluded WY SFW from participation. Rather than fight or take away licenses from the current select few Primary Sellers, WY SFW met with the Governor's Office and proposed adding wild bison to the list of Complimentary licenses available to the Governor. From day one, WY SFW has coordinated efforts regarding the legislation with the Governor's office. At NO time was WY SFW ever promised anything in return. Never did WY SFW discuss splits because WY SFW never knew whether or not they would be obtaining a Complimentary wild bison license. It was the same phone call where I learned that WY SFW was going to be awarded the first wild bison license that I also learned about the split being offered to WY SFW. They graciously offered it and I graciously accepted it.

Your second question: Why have you taken tags a number of times in the past?

WY SFW has never taken any tags. WY SFW has requested licenses from WY G&F Commissioner's since 2003. WY SFW has been in full compliance with every WY G&F Commissioner's license ever granted unto it. This statute was in existence long before WY SFW entered the state. It was not created by WY SFW nor is it exclusively reserved for WY SFW. Why is it that you and a host of others have singled out SFW when other groups in Wyoming have specific licenses set aside for their exclusive use? I won't name them but you know which ones I am referring to. Seems like more than a double standard exists in Wyoming.

Your third question: Why are you taking the "first ever Bison tag?"

WY SFW did not "take" this license from anyone. WY SFW asked if Governor Mead would consider awarding a wild bison license to their organization. Why is the such a big deal to you or anyone else? Governor Mead may have had others request a license, I do not know that and have not asked him about it. The law allows for up to 5 wild bison licenses to be awarded annually.

Here is my question to you: Why is it okay that since the Governor's Big Game License Coalition was formed that only 4 organizations were allowed to have exclusive use of them?

I will answer that question for you.... because that is how Governor Freudenthal set up his program.

Well, I'll tell you what, Wyoming does have a new Governor and he is entitled to change the program to fit his needs, wants, desires, etc. Who are you or anyone else to dictate who gets them or determine who should be allowed to use them? The law is pretty straight forward; they are called the Governor's Complimentary licenses for a reason.

Your parting statement: Its a bit hypocritical to slam the program, but then take tags, and money, from the program you dont like.

You are a bit self-righteous in trying to protect an exclusionary process, of which you are part, and hypocritical to say that it is okay for some groups to have this exclusive opportunity while others are told they should be content with the crumbs. I have told you that I believe it is a better system than what was before Governor Freudenthal was elected. I also told you and you confirmed to me that WY SFW had nothing to do with the suggested 30% split. It was never the intent of WY SFW to change anything other than expand the pool of licenses available and hope that WY SFW could become a member of the Wyoming Governor's Big Game License Coalition. Yes, we would like to be listed as a Primary Seller or see the program changed to where more organizations can participate.

Why is it an exclusionary group and WY SFW is the organization being beaten?

The projects are great. Too bad more organizations are not allowed to participate. I always thought it was competition that made America great! Self-serving, protectionism is harmful at best.......
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-13 AT 07:07PM (MST)[p]I hope BuzzH gets back to you since your post was to him and I'm sure he will in due time if his work schedule allows. I realize you have stated that you won't answer any of my "silly" questions, but I will certainly make a few comments after reading your last post to BuzzH! In your Executive Director position with WYSFW and with your knowledge of the system that you have now publicly stated that you don't like, please don't try to tell anybody that you didn't know there was a 90/10 split on all those other tags. If you were "graciously offered 30%", IMHO there was absolutely no reason that you couldn't have "graciously" said no thank you to that big amount, "we'll just stay with the 10% that all the other organizations have agreed to since inception of the program"! That is the big problem I, and probably most others, have and not the fact that the WYSFW got a tag. It is, however, rather strange and unique that WYSFW was given a tag so quickly right after the ink dried when the Governor signed the Bill and the other tags, to the best of my knowledge, are still wanting for a seller! Therefore, knowing how and why the tags came about, it appears rather suspect after reading your stated reasons of why you did what you did knowing the way SFW operates in other states. It is especially interesting and hard to agree with your "crybaby" comments about SFW being "beaten", etc. Your following statement, therefore, seems to make our suspicions correct: "It was never the intent of WY SFW to change anything other than expand the pool of licenses available and hope that WY SFW could become a member of the Wyoming Governor's Big Game License Coalition. Yes, we would like to be listed as a Primary Seller or see the program changed to where more organizations can participate". Again, it would seem that WYSFW just wants a piece of the pie due to the money they can make, rather than to help wildlife. Taking 30% of the proceeds really seems to me to make that statement and assumption correct.
 
Da Ding......it's ALL about the money!!

C'mon....one guy did'nt realize that 30% of 500 tags equaled $15K? Really??

The other guy want's to sell these tags for "thousands"? Really??

I personally don't care what they sell for, thousands included. The amount is not the issue. The issue is the money needs to go back to helping the wildlife, not to enrich some good ol' boy's pockets. And, don't give me the story of how bad the DWR is at managing things.....until RMEF, SFW, MDF or whoever else is officially managing things, then they do not need 30% of said funds. If & when any of those groups become the official manager of game herds, then the money can go to them. Until that point in time, 10% is more than enough.

To "lobby" for tags is for one reason, and one reason only......$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Carry on
 
Topgun, You are amazing. As a foreigner maybe I can clue you in. Every tag that is auctioned off by SFW there is a DWR member present invited by SFW to keep track of the amount the tag sells for. Then it is reported back. Thus the DWR knows and gets the money that they are suppose to get. As for RMEF goes, we will see if they hold true to their word. As of last year, they still kept 10% of the money from the tags that they sold. We will see about this year. Again, Governors talk. Yes there has been some talks. Right now Wyoming has a great Governor. When Utah is ask how they get their money, they may not like the way Utah has done it but they like the results. Remember, money talks.
Utah 400 elk, I never said that SFW WY is trying to do what Utah SFW is doing. I am not involved in for Wyoming SFW. I said that Wyoming has talked to Utah to see how Utah gets the money that they do to get projects completed no matter what group. As for the percentage to the group, that is up to the state. I never seen where SFW WY ask for the 30% only that it was offered. I also seen where SFW WY said it depends on the SFW WY board says the money goes. Bob said where he would suggest the projects would go and also said that the money would not be used for administrative. Until the money is spent, I would guess we would have to trust Bob.
 
Yes! Its all about the money. Without money wildlife wouldn't exist for you to hunt at all. The more money our wildlife is worth the more chance it has of continuing the cycle. Your gun ain't free. Your pack ain't free. NOTHING but maybe friendship from a dog in this entire country is free. Why are yall so dead set in thinking your hunting should be free or at falsely discounted rates?
 
" Again, it would seem that WYSFW just wants a piece of the pie due to the money they can make, rather than to help wildlife. Taking 30% of the proceeds really seems to me to make that statement and assumption correct."


This is the best line on this whole thread. This is what substitutes logic now in America and on its very best day it wouldn't even qualify as instinct. What is amazing is the poster flat out admits he is riding an assumption, but tries to proof it with other assumptions.

I think its time for Statistical colleges to rid themselves of Logic courses. Or at least offer a graduate program called " Assumed assumptions logically proven" Credibility? Who Needs it?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-13 AT 08:01AM (MST)[p]>Topgun, You are amazing.
> As a foreigner
>maybe I can clue you
>in. Every tag
>that is auctioned off by
>SFW there is a DWR
>member present invited by SFW
>to keep track of the
>amount the tag sells for.
> Then it is reported
>back. Thus the DWR
>knows and gets the money
>that they are suppose to
>get. As for RMEF
>goes, we will see if
>they hold true to their
>word. As of last
>year, they still kept 10%
>of the money from the
>tags that they sold.
>We will see about this
>year. Again, Governors talk.
> Yes there has been
>some talks. Right now
>Wyoming has a great Governor.
> When Utah is ask
>how they get their money,
>they may not like the
>way Utah has done it
>but they like the results.
> Remember, money talks.
>Utah 400 elk, I never
>said that SFW WY is
>trying to do what Utah
>SFW is doing. I
>am not involved in for
>Wyoming SFW. I said
>that Wyoming has talked to
>Utah to see how Utah
>gets the money that they
>do to get projects completed
>no matter what group.
>As for the percentage to
>the group, that is up
>to the state. I
>never seen where SFW WY
>ask for the 30% only
>that it was offered.
>I also seen where SFW
>WY said it depends on
>the SFW WY board says
>the money goes. Bob
>said where he would suggest
>the projects would go and
>also said that the money
>would not be used for
>administrative. Until the money
>is spent, I would guess
>we would have to trust
>Bob.


***You're a foreigner alright and a very naive one at that, LOL! You might know how much a tag sells for in Utah, but you have no friggin idea how much money is possibly going under the table to the higher ups in the UTSFW and MDF as sorry as it appears the books must be if they won't show them! They say trust us and you have as one very naive guy! Please don't even discuss the way Utah does business when compared to the transparent system that Wyoming has in place that BuzzH posted. Just trust everyone is definitely your motto, which is about as friggin naive as it gets in this day and age, LOL! Your comment on the RMEF is also absolutely ridiculous since the request letter by David Allen went out after the auction you mentioned where the money was kept. With the tags being auctioned off right out in the open everyone knows how much money they went for, so how in the world do you think RMEF would be able to get around not giving back everything for God's sake! For them to not do what was asked in the letter would ruin the entire organization in a heartbeat. Also, how in the world do you know if the two Governors have talked on anything, especially on what we're discussing? Just trust you is I'm sure the answer you'll come up with! Were you there when they met, as that would be the only way to know what you stated? Trust me on that, LOL! As far as the 30% seller fee issue, it's out in the open that WYSFW didn't ask for it, but Bob damn sure "graciously" accepted it (his words) with full knowledge that all the other groups were getting 10% and have been since the inception of the program. That's a great way for a group to join the program and keep harmony going amongst everyone! As others have stated, it's greed on the part of an organization to keep that kind of proceeds for themselves knowing there is nothing in writing stating what it's to be used for. That's just another "trust us" deal for you, as everything will certainly be done properly! Why not just leave the seller fee at 10% so everyone is on an equal playing field and leave it open and above board as to where the 90% is used like the committees do, rather than SFW deciding on where that extra 20% goes? Nothing says they had to accept that 30% offer and the way Bob talks it was like he was forced into it. It's basicly similar to the crap that's been hashed out time and again where your Utah organizations have been keeping quiet on what all that Expo tag fee money is used for. Finally, you end with the statement to just trust what Bob says, which is another friggin joke when he's been caught numerous times either stretching the truth or saying things that are just flat untrue like some things in this thread! This latest deal is a good example where his first posts stated they asked for the Legislature to come up with some Bison tags because of their competition with elk on the feedgrounds and the dire need to reduce the herd numbers. Now the truth comes out that Bob doesn't even like that program because certain organizations aren't included, but wants in on it as a main player so they more than just get their foot in the door IMHO. Certain organizations that he speaks of is his WYSFW, as I doubt seriously that he's worried about any other groups getting a slice of the pie!
 
Topgun, You are really an interesting fellow. Is there anything that you do not know??? You as well as others have no idea how the system works. Course you think that you do as I thought that I did. Not until I got in the meetings and started to listen and learn how the system works did I find out skills, they also suck. You are so far off it is ridicules. And as I said, we will see this fall when the dollar figures come out if RMEF really does give all the money back and then we will see if they keep their statement. As once before, they were giving 100% back and then started to keep the 10%. And of courses Bob is lying right off the bat. Why not wait and see if SFW WY does put the money on the ground like Bob said they would. You must have a special see in the future. You are really a special person. Know everything, but really you know very little as to what goes on. I really do not care if you trust me or not. Not my loss. You seem to think everyone is dishonest. If that is the case, you must be also. Does your head rattle when you shake it.
 
Trollstate---Please do a complete C/P if you're going to quote someone and then try to disparage the quote like you often do because your last two posts doing that are just more BS that make no sense as always. The 30% fee that WYSFW will make on that Bison tag is 3 times the percentage other organizations are making and that certainly is greed on the part of WYSFW when it could have been turned down and kept at 10% like the others. That extra 20% will be able to be used for anything they want when it should definitely be going back to the animal that made them the money and that is owned by the public trust. You just don't get it!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-13 AT 08:32AM (MST)[p]>Topgun, You are really
>an interesting fellow. Is
>there anything that you do
>not know??? You as
>well as others have no
>idea how the system works.
> Course you think that
>you do as I thought
>that I did. Not
>until I got in the
>meetings and started to listen
>and learn how the system
>works did I find out
>skills, they also suck.
>You are so far off
>it is ridicules. And
>as I said, we will
>see this fall when the
>dollar figures come out if
>RMEF really does give all
>the money back and then
>we will see if they
>keep their statement. As
>once before, they were giving
>100% back and then started
>to keep the 10%.
>And of courses Bob is
>lying right off the bat.
> Why not wait and
>see if SFW WY does
>put the money on the
>ground like Bob said they
>would. You must have
>a special see in the
>future. You are really
>a special person. Know
>everything, but really you know
>very little as to what
>goes on. I really
>do not care if you
>trust me or not.
>Not my loss. You
>seem to think everyone is
>dishonest. If that is
>the case, you must be
>also. Does your head
>rattle when you shake it.
>
*** I know you're naive and a SFW puppet to keep saying the same thing over and over with no basis or facts and if you aren't smart enough to understand the simple post I just made with your continual drivel about "trust" it's a damn shame. Your last few sentences have now brought you down to the leveI of trollstate, so I hope your happy! I, however, am very disappointed to see you stoop to those kind of remarks. No, I don't think everyone is dishonest, but we've all seen what money can do to even the best of people. That's exactly why we all keep crying out for transparency and you just keep crying out "trust us"---BS to that motto because it just doesn't hack it in the world we now live in!!! I'm done with both of you and it's a shame that trollstate has again hijacked a thread! It now appears that you're trying your best to follow suit!!!
 
TOPGUN,

Just because you are in the "dark" and do NOT fully know all of the things that WY SFW has been doing pertaining to bison being over objective and negatively impacting the NER doesn't mean that I have stretched the truth one bit! It simply means that you are making several assumptions based on your limited knowledge of the facts.

You are so smart, perhaps you should look at HB0041 and see what that bill was about.

Secondly, by having a Governor's Complimentary Wild Bison License we can now talk about the problem and it will raise the awareness of the plight of the NER and how bison are impacting and affecting the number of elk that the NER can sustain. While you are following every post on the World Wide Web, others are actually tackling tough issues.

It amazes me that so many on this thread and this site seem to think that it is okay to allow some groups exclusive use of a very limited number of Governor's licenses. These same individuals seem bent on protecting this exclusive use and attacking WY SFW for asking our Governor to consider allowing our organization a chance to have one of his wild bison licenses. Perhaps, WY SFW was given the extra 20% because this system has excluded it from participation since its inception? I don't know what prompted the offering of 30% to WY SFW, all I know is that it happened just as I said it did. Even BuzzH knows this to be true.

Yesterday, I learned that Governor Mead will be able to attend our event. He will pull the last raffle ticket out of the drum and hopefully be able to award it the individual. Since you do not need to be present to win, that lucky individual may not be in attendance.

I like the justice system on mm as well. It appears as though some have already tried, convicted and are attempting to execute WY SFW before anything has even transpired. You have all heard what I have to say in how I will recommend the money is spent.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, they are not entitled to rewrite or alter the facts. Those that know me, know me. The facts will bare out who can be trusted on this site and who cannot be trusted. I am fine with that!

Good luck to those who have chosen to participate!
 
TOPGUN,

You said: " The 30% fee that WYSFW will make on that Bison tag is 3 times the percentage other organizations are making and that certainly is greed on the part of WYSFW when it could have been turned down and kept at 10% like the others. That extra 20% will be able to be used for anything they want when it should definitely be going back to the animal that made them the money and that is owned by the public trust."

Who the **** are you to say how much WY SFW should be able to keep? If the Governor said WY SFW could keep 100%, who are you to question that? There is absolutely no restrictions in statute. As has already been stated on mm, a "gentlemen's agreement" exists. That agreement was established between Governor Freudenthal and a few selected organizations. Did it offend anyone when he changed the previous system? Probably did but guess what, it was changed none-the-less! Is Governor Mead obligated to do things exactly as his predecessor? I don't think so.

What you don't seem to understand is that it has gone through the public process and therefore, it doesn't violate any public trust doctrine.

Furthermore, you have no idea how much it has cost, nor how much money it will actually generate. I was told the reason we were allowed to keep a higher percentage was because no one knew how much money a wild bison license would generate nor how much it would cost to market one. Since I don't have a crystal ball and I have trust issues with you, I guess I am in the same camp as I have no idea how much it will generate nor how much it will cost WY SFW to market it. I do know that so far, just as expected, no one has bought just one ticket. Some have predicted that it will only raise $6000; however, I hope to raise at least $10,000 but will push it for all I can. Not because of the 30% WY SFW can retain but because I believe a Governor's Complimentary Wild Bison License should generate a lot more money FOR WILDLIFE than those that set the bar at $6,000. I guess it can be said that since WY SFW pushed to establish this license, just as the WSF, NAMF, MDF and RMEF, we have more incentive to ensure that these licenses generate the highest amount possible. Perhaps, the established groups would like to see WY SFW fail in our attempt, but who would that really be hurting, WY SFW, WY Governor, Wyoming's Wildlife or all three? I guess only those that participate will know the true outcome!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-13 AT 09:34AM (MST)[p]>TOPGUN,
>
>You said: " The 30% fee
>that WYSFW will make on
>that Bison tag is 3
>times the percentage other organizations
>are making and that certainly
>is greed on the part
>of WYSFW when it could
>have been turned down and
>kept at 10% like the
>others. That extra 20% will
>be able to be used
>for anything they want when
>it should definitely be going
>back to the animal that
>made them the money and
>that is owned by the
>public trust."
>
>Who the **** are you to
>say how much WY SFW
>should be able to keep?
> If the Governor said
>WY SFW could keep 100%,
>who are you to question
>that? There is absolutely
>no restrictions in statute.
>As has already been stated
>on mm, a "gentlemen's agreement"
>exists. That agreement was
>established between Governor Freudenthal and
>a few selected organizations.
>Did it offend anyone when
>he changed the previous system?
> Probably did but guess
>what, it was changed none-the-less!
> Is Governor Mead obligated
>to do things exactly as
>his predecessor? I don't
>think so.
>
>What you don't seem to understand
>is that it has gone
>through the public process and
>therefore, it doesn't violate any
>public trust doctrine.
>
>Furthermore, you have no idea how
>much it has cost, nor
>how much money it will
>actually generate. I was
>told the reason we were
>allowed to keep a higher
>percentage was because no one
>knew how much money a
>wild bison license would generate
>nor how much it would
>cost to market one.
>Since I don't have a
>crystal ball and I have
>trust issues with you, I
>guess I am in the
>same camp as I have
>no idea how much it
>will generate nor how much
>it will cost WY SFW
>to market it. I
>do know that so far,
>just as expected, no one
>has bought just one ticket.
> Some have predicted that
>it will only raise $6000;
>however, I hope to raise
>at least $10,000 but will
>push it for all I
>can. Not because of
>the 30% WY SFW can
>retain but because I believe
>a Governor's Complimentary Wild Bison
>License should generate a lot
>more money FOR WILDLIFE than
>those that set the bar
>at $6,000. I guess
>it can be said that
>since WY SFW pushed to
>establish this license, just as
>the WSF, NAMF, MDF and
>RMEF, we have more incentive
>to ensure that these licenses
>generate the highest amount possible.
> Perhaps, the established groups
>would like to see WY
>SFW fail in our attempt,
>but who would that really
>be hurting, WY SFW, WY
>Governor, Wyoming's Wildlife or all
>three? I guess only
>those that participate will know
>the true outcome!


***Again for a top official in your organization it was real cool for you to ask me with an expletive as to who the **** I think I am to say what WYSFW should keep! A simple answer is that I am the public trust, just as all other citizens. Yea, it went through the public Legislative process, but that's pure BS to say that means it doesn't violate the public trust doctrine. Your 30% reasoning is also flawed in that all the other organizations started out at 10% with no real clue as to whether they'd go in the hole or not, so why should the WYSFW be any different?! You wanted the tags and pushed it through the Legislative process and have now received one, so get your members together and do your best with a 10% return, rather than 30%, just like the other groups did and are still doing. Again I will remind you that those tags aren't there, just like the others aren't, to subsidize an organization. You just don't get the picture that with the huge disparity between that 30% and 10% it makes your organization look like a bunch of money grabbers interested in yourselves, rather than a worthwhile conservation outfit dedicated to wildlife! It follows the same pattern of things that are happening in other states where the SFW is trying to become a major player in how wildlife is managed. Most on the different website I frequent say that the way the groups are going about it in all the states sucks!!! Why can't you understand simple reality with all the bad things that people aready feel about any group with the SFW initials? IMHO, and in many others from what it looks like, this Bison tag will end up being a huge ball and chain around the neck of your group and I'd bet there will be some real negative repercussions that you aren't going to like. Time will tell whether your Bison idea was a good one or something that will unite hunters throughout the state of Wyoming to stop things just like the folks did in AZ! Sir, I don't want to see your group fail at anything as long as things are done on the up and up like everyone else appears to be doing in a transparent manner and wildlife benefits from it!
 
TOPGUN,

Here are your own words: "You just don't get the picture that with the huge disparity between that 30% and 10% it makes your organization look like a bunch of money grabbers interested in yourselves, rather than a worthwhile conservation outfit dedicated to wildlife!"

Oh, I get it! You think that WY SFW is unworthy of anything, let alone the additional 20% that was given to us. Perhaps, it also stems from the fact that WY SFW is not a member of the Governor's Big Game License Coalition? Why shouldn't we decide how/where the money is spent, we raised it! The fact that you keep insisting that it is some how benefiting WY SFW or its members directly is ridiculous. Where is your "proof" that WY SFW has benefited from this additional split? WY SFW gets to decide where an additional 20% of the proceeds are spent. No one ever said that WY SFW is able to keep the additional 20%.

Again, your words: "Again I will remind you that those tags aren't there, just like the others aren't, to subsidize an organization."

Where is it written that this is a subsidy for WY SFW? DO you just make this stuff up? You have nothing but your own "fear" of what "might" happen and you relentlessly disparage WY SFW and SFW in general.

Once again your own words: "A simple answer is that I am the public trust, just as all other citizens. Yea, it went through the public Legislative process, but that's pure BS to say that means it doesn't violate the public trust doctrine."

Wrong! You are a part of the public trust. You are not the public trust. While you might think the legislative process is pure BS is irrelevant and matters not! It is the public process whereby our laws are created. Wyoming's legislature is comprised of Wyoming citizens and they are accountable to their constituents. The Constitution is what I hold inviolate, public trust is something that can and will change over time. You are the one that is not getting it! You are entitled to your own opinion but NO ONE is obligated to conform to your ideals.

Once again, your own words: "Most on the different website I frequent say that the way the groups are going about it in all the states sucks!!! Why can't you understand simple reality with all the bad things that people aready feel about any group with the SFW initials?"

Here you show your bias clearly. Several groups participate in every state. Each state has their own way of doing things. Each state has used a very public process to establish their own programs. WY SFW has pointed out that Wyoming has a program in place that is exclusive in who is allowed to participate. You clearly seem to have no problem with these groups excluding WY SFW and everyone else. Why is that? Could it be that you hate WY SFW so much that you should be able to pick and choose winners and losers? You are so pompous and arrogant. We live in a Republic not a Democracy. It isn't mob rules, it is the law of the land which governs the public.

You conclude by stating the following: "I don't want to see your group fail at anything as long as things are done on the up and up like everyone else appears to be doing in a transparent manner and wildlife benefits from it!"

Sorry, I am forced to call BS on this statement! You are in fact condemning WY SFW without the full facts. You continue to use supposition instead of fact. You continue to question everything, even though you have nothing to stand upon. You continue to insist that something must be amiss because someone decided to allow WY SFW to have the oversight of how an additional 20% of the proceeds is spent. You have not even allowed WY SFW to be accountable in your haste to condemn us. You continue to place your emphasis on the 30%; but you fail to recognize that the Governor can change the program any ways he so desires.

Once again, back to the topic of this post: WY SFW has been awarded a great opportunity. You can choose to participate or you can choose not to participate. Those that do participate, I thank you for your support and wish you well in the drawing!
 
TOPGUN,

Once again your own words: " That money is put into use by a Committee of appointed citizens like BuzzH that determine where it will be spent and they make sure it happens wherever it goes."

Who is it that appoints these citizens to this exclusive committee?

Another TOPGUN quote: "The G&F, however, receives an appropriated amount by the Bill itself ($12,500 at the present time), to compensate for issuance of those complimentary licenses and that money comes out of the General Fund."

How did that bill come about? Who do you think supported and helped pass that bill? Where did that idea come from? Is that money actually guaranteed?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-13 AT 11:32AM (MST)[p]>TOPGUN,
>
>Once again your own words: "
>That money is put into
>use by a Committee of
>appointed citizens like BuzzH that
>determine where it will be
>spent and they make sure
>it happens wherever it goes."
>
>
>Who is it that appoints these
>citizens to this exclusive committee?
>
>
>Another TOPGUN quote: "The G&F, however,
>receives an appropriated amount by
>the Bill itself ($12,500 at
>the present time), to compensate
>for issuance of those complimentary
>licenses and that money comes
>out of the General Fund."
>
>
>How did that bill come about?
> Who do you think
>supported and helped pass that
>bill? Where did that
>idea come from? Is
>that money actually guaranteed?


*Why should I answer any of your questions when you have stated that you won't answer any of my "silly" one's, LOL?!!! You know who appoints the members, so why ask that silly question when you have already said the same guy or his Office offered you the 70/30 split?! It's been stated as to how the Bill came about during the Freudenthal Administration and it was along with interested organizations wanting to help wildlife, so what the heck was the point in that question? Sorry you weren't there to get in on the action and are now crying about it like you're the only group that's not selling tags! How should I know who all supported the initial Bill or yours, other than to look to see if I can find what Legislators voted yea on them to get them passed? I won't take my valuable time to attempt something that isn't necessary and that I don't need to know! You also said the idea on this latest Bill creating the Bison tags was yours and came to fruition after several years, so again, why ask that quesion of me?! Is what money guaranteed? The only thing guarantee is our death and taxes, LOL!
 
Wiii Topgun, What I said about you knowing what is going on I stick with. As for your investigations and remarks being inaccurate I also stick with. One question to you. You keep saying that I am wrong about SFWAZ. You say you know better. Will you please tell me how they are the same organization except for the initials?? Show me otherwise. Your great investigation experience should show you know better. I am not talking hearsay I am talking show me the facts. After all you know.
 
"***I said I was done with you, but with another stupid post to me and with plenty of time this AM before I cut grass, I can't resist to remark on how stupid your posts and you are."

Because I own you.

" If you can't understand that when the term "animal" is used that it represents the species and not the dead animal as you suggested, you're indeed stupid and a hopeless case, but I think everyone has already come to that conclusion."

Ok let' follow this crawfish and see where it goes. Now you want to give money to the "species". Your words quoted not mine. Do you right a species a check? Where exactly does the bison herd bank at? Can I get an accounting from the head of all bison on where they are spending that money?. The more you crawfish the dumber and more spineless you look.

" If you haven't been paying attention to this thread, and it appears you haven't, the G&F doesn't get the 90% in proceeds from any of those Wyoming Governor tags. That money is put into use by a Committee of appointed citizens like BuzzH that determine where it will be spent and they make sure it happens wherever it goes."

You still are paying money into government. Not a trust. A group of people that spend money that YOU don't own. Its just the group of people who you like even though BuzzH says you don't even belong to the public trust or this argument since you don't live in Wyoming. His argument not mine. If SFW using the money is a violation of the public trust, which it isn't, then giving the money to a wildlife board is too.

" The G&F, however, receives an appropriated amount by the Bill itself ($12,500 at the present time), to compensate for issuance of those complimentary licenses and that money comes out of the General Fund. Read the Bill before you make any more BS remarks because you have no basis for making them as usual!"

The bill has nothing to do with the fact that you can't give money to dead animals, or species which is what you argued for. The bill doesn't require 90% of this new tag so your silly bill is nothing more than a hoop dream. Its like saying there is a bill stating that highway speed has to be 55 so you are pissed if anybody goes faster or slower anywhere else. The BILL IS NOT UNIVERSAL. You keep screaming about a bill hoping somehow you will get credibility and no one will realize you are a rabid idiot.
 
"Is what money guaranteed? The only thing guaranteed is death and taxes, LOL!"


With that attitude why do you keep screaming about %90 or %70. You don't believe anything should be guaranteed anyway. I guess your beliefs are a little selective. When you hate someone you can have all kinds of beliefs. When someone wants answers you don't believe so much. I see how you are.
 
TOPGUN,

Here is the question I asked, once more: "Who is it that appoints these citizens to this exclusive committee?"

I asked this question because no one has answered it yet. Even BuzzH gave me the same answer as you did. It is not clear who appoints this exclusive committee and apparently everyone is assuming someone else is appointing these people.

Who is it that appoints these citizens to this exclusive committee? Are you saying it is the Governor or someone else?

You don't need to answer my questions. It appears that you are incapable of answering most of them. The amazing thing is then you act offended that I don't answer your questions. No double standards around you are there?
 
>TOPGUN,
>
>Here is the question I asked,
>once more: "Who is it
>that appoints these citizens to
>this exclusive committee?"
>
>I asked this question because no
>one has answered it yet.
> Even BuzzH gave me
>the same answer as you
>did. It is not
>clear who appoints this exclusive
>committee and apparently everyone is
>assuming someone else is appointing
>these people.
>
>Who is it that appoints these
>citizens to this exclusive committee?
>Are you saying it is
>the Governor or someone else?
>
>
>You don't need to answer my
>questions. It appears that
>you are incapable of answering
>most of them. The
>amazing thing is then you
>act offended that I don't
>answer your questions. No
>double standards around you are
>there?


***Sorry you lack reading comprehension, as I answered every one of your stupid questions and the more you post now the bigger ass you're making of yourself and the organization you represent. I'm done with this whole thread, as everything has been said that needs to be said and trying to talk to Birdman and Trollstate are a waste of my time and anyone else that reads their BS!!!
 
TOPGUN,

You did not answer my question! You implies someone, but who were you implying? Just how much do you really know? Who was it that told me WY SFW would be allowed to keep the 30%?

It also appears as though you are starting to profane? Once again, the TOPGUN double standard rears its UGLY head!

You are simply amazing!
 
Smokestick,
Just because you can do a thing, does not mean you should. As hot of a topic as auction tags and the use of funds is, you might consider the wisdom of accepting the present amount. It also sets a precedent and odds are that rather than foster an image of political favoritism, the governor will move toward adjusting others' amounts to 30%. Keep the big picture in mind. I tend to stay neutral about most organizations and have about yours. If you can't administer that tag within 10% of funds raised, it needs to go to a different organization so the greater amount will go to the direct benefit of the animals. If you can do it within 10%, you have no reason to accept the other 20%. Looks like my neutrality is coming to an end and I will begin to discourage others from supporting your organization.


If there is a need to thin the bison herd, there are any number of people vying for an opportunity to hunt them. Raise the quota!
 
Topgun, I will put it out in the open, not a PM. You tell me how na?ve I am about what is going on. You tell me how SFW AZ is part of the Sportsman For Fish and Wildlife family. You tell me how stupid I am. You put the post on with the language, not me. You may not have spelled it out but it is hard not to know what you meant. You say I can not see the forest for the trees. I say you have know idea how it all works. I see first hand, I am not sure how you see. You tell me to prove this and that with facts. I say prove to me that SFW AZ is part of Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife and you get all upset. You seem to get all upset when ask to prove a statement you make but then demand I PROVE otherwise. I know otherwise. You want to slam me, I will slam back. I do hope you have a better day. But I do know. DON'T trust me. Don't want you to trust me. Want you to prove for yourself.
 
"Smokestick,
Just because you can do a thing, does not mean you should. As hot of a topic as auction tags and the use of funds is, you might consider the wisdom of accepting the present amount. It also sets a precedent and odds are that rather than foster an image of political favoritism, the governor will move toward adjusting others' amounts to 30%. Keep the big picture in mind. I tend to stay neutral about most organizations and have about yours. If you can't administer that tag within 10% of funds raised, it needs to go to a different organization so the greater amount will go to the direct benefit of the animals. If you can do it within 10%, you have no reason to accept the other 20%. Looks like my neutrality is coming to an end and I will begin to discourage others from supporting your organization."

This is socialist logic. Why let certain people have money when it is more than the populace decides they need. Maybe you would like to have funds in you accounts scrutinized under the premise of "what you need". That ain't America brother.


"If there is a need to thin the bison herd, there are any number of people vying for an opportunity to hunt them. Raise the quota!"

I have no argument there.
 
I think it is ridiculous that a conservation group is allowed to keep 30% of the revenue from a conservation tag. It may be legal under Wyoming law but that does not make it right. Utah's administative rule creating the convention permits allowed the groups to keep all of the money and required no accounting. That also was not right. These groups and their members should each be self-policing and looking to do what is best for wildlife and sportsmen generally. Until that occurs, the public's frustration with these groups will continue to grow.

On a sidenote, I consider it a badge of honor for any poster on this website to get tag-teamed by Tristate and Birdman. Anyone that follows these threads can see the pattern.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-13 AT 02:50PM (MST)[p]Amen 100000000000 times to Hawkeys post, both paragraphs!!!

http://stg.do/9LDc

When I read the post from a few people, and I wont mention names, this little short video from Paul Harvey comes to mind.
This was from 1965 if I remember, called, "if I were the Devil."
 
"I think it is ridiculous that a conservation group is allowed to keep 30% of the revenue from a conservation tag. It may be legal under Wyoming law but that does not make it right."


Perfectly normal response and opinion there Hawkeye. I may disagree with you but that is still a normal opinion. But when Topgun goes on some bat crap crazy rant throwing out ideas and "facts" he knows zero about the his opinion starts to slide off the side.

" Utah's administative rule creating the convention permits allowed the groups to keep all of the money and required no accounting. That also was not right. These groups and their members should each be self-policing and looking to do what is best for wildlife and sportsmen generally."

They are self policing. You just don't agree with the rules that they write for themselves.


" Until that occurs, the public's frustration with these groups will continue to grow."

Even if they start offering accounting sheets yall will still scream for their heads. It doesn't have to do with accounting or %10. It is all based around selfish competition over deer tags. Until the organizations run themselves with absolutely know relationship to deer tags yall will hate them. That's what started this war and it hasn't gone anywhere since.
 
Robiland,

If I were the devil I would make a welfare tag system that would consume men's attention and passion and make them sit around their computers waiting to learn if a government that had replaced God was going to grant the subjects a hunting tag. I would make a hunting club that on its own is not evil but through the nature of man corrupts them with greed and consumes them with a competitive desire to screw all of their brethren in search for the worthless bone which rides atop the head of one of Gods glorious creatures. If I were the devil you would not know I was here. You would talk about, "God's Country", and family time, and blessings, while you unknowingly vacated the land of wildlife, took away the chances your family had for a future in hunting, and thought a preference point was a blessing.

Be careful. The hand you hold can hold you down.
 
Smokestick,
A couple comments to your first post, where you tried to answer some of mine...

BuzzH,

You and I have already spoken about this but I can do it again.

Your first question: If you dont like the program, why did WYSFW push to add 5 more tags via legislative action?

The current system us set up to empower 4 organizations; Wild Sheep Foundation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Mule Deer Foundation, and North American Moose Foundation.

No it doesnt, you seem more intent on the "empowerment" of these tags. There is no sense of empowerment, its a FUND RAISER FOR WILDLIFE, where 90% of the money is returned to on the ground projects with undisputable transparency. Something that has been lacking from every branch of SFW. If you post your finacials to the level of detail that I provided, I'll gladly take that back and eat crow. Frankly, however, I could give a chit what the 10% goes to...if WYSFW wants to blow it on pizza and beer...go for it. The reason that most are OK with that is because 90% is coming back, where transparency isnt an issue, and the public can see its not spent on beer and pizza. Its all there, black and white, crystal clear for 90% of the money.

I did not like the program because it excluded WY SFW from participation.

Thats funny, I just have a question for you. Wheres your outrage over SFW keeping control of 200 tags at the expo for their exclusive use?

Secondly, If I didnt like a program, the last thing I'd ever want to do is become part of something I dont agree with. I dont lease any hunting property. I dont pay access fees. I also dont agree with shooting animals in pens, and I dont do that either.

WY SFW has never taken any tags.

So I reckon the moose permits that were raffled in Utah the last 2 years, that listed WYSFW as the seller, just showed up via a miracle? Again, if you were that fundamentally outraged about the program...why participate at all?

Your third question: Why are you taking the "first ever Bison tag?"

WY SFW did not "take" this license from anyone. WY SFW asked if Governor Mead would consider awarding a wild bison license to their organization.

Again, if you hate the program so much, why accept the license? Nobody has forced you to accept a license...ever.

Why is the such a big deal to you or anyone else?

Its a big deal because I'm not blind. I know where your next move is, and thats exactly why you've made the decision to burn down the current Gov. Tag program. To you it has nothing to do with wildlife, and thats apparentl from your rant here. You dont care about anything but the "empowerment" and because you feel WYSFW is being left the crumbs. Get over it...do something for wildlife, just once, without having a personal agenda to see to.


Here is my question to you: Why is it okay that since the Governor's Big Game License Coalition was formed that only 4 organizations were allowed to have exclusive use of them?

Again Bob, how many people even knew about the Gov. tag program before you started slamming it? How many times have you seen the RMEF, MDF, WSF, or NAM claim how great they were because they sit on this committees? Those groups are not the ones that should, nor are they, taking credit for those tags. The people that need to be thanked are the citizens of Wyoming, in particular the hunting public, that sure as hell are giving opportunity to see this program put 90% of the money back on the ground. The hunting public is the real hero here. You've trumpeted on about how WYSFW got this new bison bill passed, BFD, the heavy lifting was done long ago...and thats a fact.

Well, I'll tell you what, Wyoming does have a new Governor and he is entitled to change the program to fit his needs, wants, desires, etc. Who are you or anyone else to dictate who gets them or determine who should be allowed to use them? The law is pretty straight forward; they are called the Governor's Complimentary licenses for a reason.

The people, in particular hunters, who choose whether or not to cast a vote for the Governor. Thats who they think they are. Many a politician better start realizing that the hook and bullet crowd vote, hunters are organizing, and they're tired of being rail-roaded. Ask Denny Rehberg how that worked out for him...throwing hunters under the bus...he's drawing unemployment for his efforts.

You are a bit self-righteous in trying to protect an exclusionary process, of which you are part, and hypocritical to say that it is okay for some groups to have this exclusive opportunity while others are told they should be content with the crumbs.

Self righteous? Until you made these posts, nobody even knew I was on the committee. Thats how it should be. I dont take any credit for this great program, none. I give to the program, I dont take a thing. I dont get compensated for mileage, my time, or my efforts in ANY way. I dont feel any sense of "empowerment", only want to see it continue into the future so that the hunting public can CLEARLY see where 90% of the money is going for their sacrifice of both opportunity and wildlife resources. They dont just deserve that, they're entitled to it.

It was never the intent of WY SFW to change anything

You really expect anyone to believe that, when you clearly say you dont like the program, that WYSFW was being vilified, and that you've mentioned over and over again how WYSFW wants to take credit for part of the Gov. tag program? Yeah...sure. If you didnt want the original program changed, dont ask for bison tags.

The projects are great.

Yes, they are, and why the program needs to be left alone, as is.

Too bad more organizations are not allowed to participate. I always thought it was competition that made America great!

To some, Bob, Wildlife isnt a competition...and its more than blatantly obvious you see it as nothing but competition, on every level.

I'm not inclined to burn down a great program and I wrongly thought you were better than to do so...I was wrong.

Nice work!

Self-serving, protectionism is harmful at best.......

Go tell that to Don and UTSFW...where they keep 200 tags for exclusive use of SFW each year. Clean up your own house first, and try leading by example, just once.
 
Hawkeye, Good to see a post. I also think that 30 percent is too high but coming from a person that represents the law you should know ethics and the law are different. It is what is done with the money that matters. You talk about all the money from the convention tags being kept by two groups. it was true. A venture between the State of Utah and the two groups. $5 for an application fee. True it brought in a lot of money because a LOT of people like the idea. If it was not popular it would not be so successful. As for Topgun, There is no need for some language on either side to be put on this web sight. The abbreviations still say and mean the same thing and everyone knows what it means. There is also no reason for a personal message to be sent with bad language in and slam someone. I ask him or anyone to prove SFW AZ is part of the Utah organization. No one can because it is not. I guess it is alright to ask a person to prove he is right, but if that person says prove me wrong that is a sin.
 
Smokestick,

I don't know a whole lot about your organization, but I find it in poor taste that the leader of any "nonprofit" would actually type "Who the **** are you....." on a public forum. I understand the need to defend yourself and your organization, but that line alone will prevent me from giving you the benefit of the doubt regardless of your stance on wildlife management.
 
Smokestick,

I don't know a whole lot about your organization, but I find it in poor taste that the leader of any "nonprofit" would actually type "Who the **** are you....." on a public forum. I understand the need to defend yourself and your organization, but that line alone will prevent me from giving you the benefit of the doubt regardless of your stance on wildlife management.
 
"This is socialist logic. Why let certain people have money when it is more than the populace decides they need. Maybe you would like to have funds in you accounts scrutinized under the premise of "what you need". That ain't America brother. "


What's socialistic about it? I shared my opinion, suggested the realities of politics and something that Smokestick might want to consider, expressed a desire that the funds go more directly to the wildlife, expressed my personal displeasure with something... Suggested that an organization's direction may lead me to discourage others from supporting it, but not suggesting that legal influence should force the issue... A lot of expressed ideas, enjoying my freedom of speech: what is more American than that? What is American is that we can all freely express our ideas, agree or disagree, call names if so desired, seek accountability, work for the system to work the way we desire whether many others do or don't disagree...

Socialism is a pretty broad term that includes a number of economic and political theories. Tristate, perhaps with your theoretical take on the term, what I say seems socialistic. I don't think much of my thinking on things (per what I think and not others' interpretation) would be congruent with most any of the theories. Its a word that is often overly used and misused.
 
I didn't use the word socialistic lightly. I used it because that's exactly what your statement was. You are promoting a system where SOCIETY will determine what a private conservation group decides how much money is too much money for them to have. Whether that be just to pay administrative bills or to actually fund projects in the wildlife industry. You may not like the stigma that you got but you earned it.

By the way I never claimed your view point to be un-American or that you were very different than most people around you. I think America has changed and most people are very happy thinking they should have control over every ones business outside their own.
 
Tristate-

You are up in the night (again) It is not socialism for sportsmen to express concern about so-called conservation groups taking huge chunks of money (30%) from the sale of so-called conservation permits. Those permits are public assets. If these groups went out and raised money in the private sector without these public tags then that would be an entirely different issue. Your comment is ridiculous.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
30% is way to much, give some back,,,,these tags are like quicksand. once you get in you cant get out'
 
Hawkeye,

we are not talking about conservsation permits. And yes it is socialism whether you like it or not when someone outside of an organization starts claiming to know what other people "need", his words, for their organization, and trying to influence law to do so. You may not like the title but it is what it is.
 

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