First Death by DWI

NMHUNTNUTTG · Jan 1, 2008

Well it happened here in NM.This morning at around 1AM a drunken ##### got behind the wheel and caused an accident that took two lives.An Airmen from the base here got into his truck and was headed home after tying one on.He flipped a UTURN and got on the gas. Some other people saw this and were in the process of calling DRUNK BUSTERS HOTLINE when this drunk ran a red light and T-ed up another vehicle. The impact was so hard that both vehicles were welded together(the news anchor's words) , none the less by the time parimedics were on seen both persons in the other vehicle were pronounced dead , and whats worse , is this airmen who was 2 times over the limit , walked away with NO injuries! Can you believe that? It seems like more and more you hear about deaths by DWI and the drunk walking away....This pisses me off so bad.....I can only take comfort knowing that my wife is going to prosecute the liquor establishment that over served this man and take yet another alcohol license away and hopefully just hopefully the D.A. WILL END THE FREEDOM of this sorry P.O.S.!

I feel so sorry and terrible for famalies who are robbed of loved ones by drunken stupid ass drivers...

DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE, IF ANY OF YOU DO , FROM ME TO YOU , YOU ARE THE DUMBEST FORM OF SHITT, and I can only hope that you are caught and pay with everything you have and everything you were ever going to have!DRUNK DRIVERS SUCK !!!!!

Larry G

creamofthecrop · Jan 1, 2008

back in high school i had buddies drinkin and a drivin, one of my best friends loved to drive drunk he thought it was fun. i always stopped him when i was with him but on the night he drove off the road rolling his truck and killing him 11 days later, i was not there. and i am glad no one else was driving with him. and thank god he didnt hit any one else. its sad not only when they take there own life but when they take away anothers, just aint fair.

nickman · Jan 1, 2008

That is very sad, DWI is the height of ignorance.

............so, that means your wife would prosecute Smith & Wesson if some dork shoots someone with one of their handguns?

WTF...ever worked in a bar, especially on New Years Eve? Just how is the liquor establishment supposed to control EVERYONE in the place? What was under the seat in the guys truck? What did he smoke after he left the bar? Unbelievable!

That is soooooo stupid; take away someones livelihood because some a-hole can't be responsible for his own actions......you hate drunk drivers, so do I.....but I also hate your wife!

The drunk did a stupid and irresponsible thing and now innocent people are dead. Your wife and her boss (educated ?) are deliberately ruining some poor bastards life on purpose, without the benefit of alcohol!

tageater · Jan 1, 2008

LAST EDITED ON Jan-01-08 AT 11:54PM (MST)[p]ok i'll chime in Nick, the establishment has the right and responsibility to cut people off, that they determine have had too much to drink!

The only way this country can get it through to these people that want to continue to drink and drive and to serve those that have had too much to drink is prosecution, to the full extent of the law. If one bar owner sees another lose his business then he'll not be as likely to sell a drunk another beer for the road.

that bar isn't going to go broke if they dont sell to one drunk. they will go broke if they do sell to him!and as a bartender you should want to keep your job, and to do that, dont sell the drunk another. he can get a ride home and drink all he wants

I've got my DUI, thank god i didn't kill any one! i've learned that leason, i dont drink and drive any more,period! I've been cut off,at a bar, for having what they thought was too many. i hated the bar tender that night, next morning i knew it was the right call on her part.

Edit:As for your thoughts about it being like suing S&W- no its like suing the person that gave the mentally unstable person a loaded gun.not the maker of the gun, you'd have to sue budweiser to make that comparison.

thats my opinion on that.

nickman · Jan 2, 2008

I NEVER said that a person that has had to much to drink should not be cut off....86'd is what it's called here. My issue is, how does a bar or restaurant owner know that one person out of 100 people has had too much?

Sure, in a bar with 10 customers, it is easy to know how much one particular guy has had, but what if you have 3 bartenders and 6 waitresses and 100 New Years Eve idiots......?

Who knows what he did after he left one business in particular? I have a lot of friends that always keep a case of beer on ice in the back of the truck, others with a jug in the toolbox.....just in case.

It's a BS call to prosecute the bar......just another way for lawmakers to put the blame for our actions onto someone else, instead of making YOU responsible for what YOU do. Ambulance chasers love this attitude. It exposes way more people to lawsuits.

I also didn't say it was the SAME as suing gun manufacturers....but it is definately the SAME mindset.

COSA · Jan 2, 2008

I agree 100% with you nickman.

People like your wife have ruined any notion of personal responsibility in this country. It only takes 3 drinks to be over the limit. How many bars cut people off at 3 drinks on New Years Eve or any day for that matter? Our country is going to hell because of the blame culture people like your wife make a living off. Before you even say my wife is a "good" lawyer because she is a prosecutor, We wouldn't need any "good" lawyers if there were not so many "bad" ones.

NMHUNTNUTTG · Jan 2, 2008

Well let me go ahead and respond.
First of all , the state of New Mexico 5 years ago was the #1 state in the US for alcohol related deaths, not 5, not 10 but number 1.The state in general, the Governor, law enforcement and the citizens throughout the stae wanted something to be done.Because "we" as a society are no longer accountable for our own actions at many times, and don't blame me , I'm only 34 years old but this is the society we have developed and have accepted. So now here in this state , new rules were put into postion to actively help reduce drunk drivers , from increased mandatory jail to alcohol breathalizor ignition units put on DWI offenders vehicles.More guidelines were also accepted and have been in place for "bars". Owners of any and all liquar licenses know that "we" can't always regulate our own selves so they also had to/have to police their own establishments , the servers of any liquar establishments are also required to have a servers license and in ataining this license they are supposed to be trained on how to identify a person getting in a drunke state. This is nothing new here, it's not like New Years came and these laws and guidelines were put into play.All bar owners in this state are aware of this as more and more "bars " are being prosecuted because , again in our society the almighty $$$ is what is more important than anything , including a life , a life that sometimes another person could have saved if just to cut off the drinks and get disignated drivers. This problem of deaths because of DWI will never go away , it's one of the problems that is what it is , but it can be decreased and part of the tools that the State of NM is using to help fight this is such things as also making the "bar "owners responsible for the business that goes on inside of thier walls.You say if there are 10 people than it's easy to see whos' drunk or getting drunk , well that's not for me to say it is or isn't but if an owner has a bigger building and can serve people in the 100s' than they should get more people on staff to help identify ingorant drinkers , atleast thats how it is here in NM.

So Jack , go ahead and hate my wife, I see how DWI deaths affect famalies year round as I'm lucky enough to be married to a very educated very successful wife who also see's first hand the damage this causes but she gives a damn and does something about it. Poor guy my a$$ , these bar owners have more money than you and me and need to be held accountable for the business they conduct.I pray you never go through it , I'd never wish such an aweful thing on another because that is a pain that never goes away. It is not like someone shooting another and then going after the maker of the gun , but it would be if the gun maker just sold a weapon out the door to just anybody with no back ground checks.Each line of business has it's own system of checks and balances , for gun sales , it's tools such as back ground checks and waiting periods in some states and in this state it is the tools I have explained to help in the fight of DUI-DWI....

MortgageMan · Jan 2, 2008

She should sue the truck maker too. They shouldn't sell vehicles to drunks.

NMHUNTNUTTG · Jan 2, 2008

COSA , you are 100% right about the 3 drink limit .So does that mean that because a place will not stop serving a person after 3 drinks especailly on a night like New Years Eve that nothing should be done? If your a bar owner and you know these laws and guidelines are in place yet you accept and allow your hired staff to go ahead and serve just another drink because God knows it's the night you as a bar owner is going to make the big $$$$ than YES you are accountable and should have to deal with the consiquenses , because YOU are the owner and you hired the staff and in the end you are partially responsible , remeber it's your business.

No I won't tell you anything about my wife being a good prosecuter, I don't believe she or I are any better than anybody to be-little another...But I will say this , the Liquar Industry governed in this state knows she's good or bad , depending how it's looked upon.,many a bar owner hates that they follow the rules and guidelines and are never sited yet they have to deal with all the negativity because of the view in the public eye has labeled them with....

COSA · Jan 2, 2008

LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-08 AT 02:36PM (MST)[p]If you're going make and enforce those kind of laws, then you should shut down every bar in the state. Realistically, How many people go to a bar to have one or two drinks? And maybe we need to hold owners of mini-marts and grocery stores responsible for what they sell as well. How can a waitress, bartender, or clerk differentiate between someone that has had 2 beers and someone that has had 5 beers? How many gun stores give you a drug test/breathilizer before buying a firearm? Maybe we should shut down Cabelas the next time some meth head uses a gun bought at their store. What I'm saying, is unless someone is pretty intoxicated, its pretty difficult for the bartender, waitress, ect. to enforce these laws.

And I wasn't refering personally to your wife's prosecuting ability. It just torks me when lawyers say their "good" just because they don't chase ambulances. They need each other like Norton needs the computer virus creators. This country would be so much better off with a 90% reduction in attourneys. Our nations biggest problem: People blaming everything and everyone and not taking responsibilty for themselves morally and financially. Suing.

Anyways, its really too bad about the accident, they should hold that guy responsible. One reason why I stay home on New Years.

NMHUNTNUTTG · Jan 2, 2008

COSA, you do have some very valid points and I do agree with you about how one is to be able to say whether or not another is drunk or close to drunk , 1 drink vs. 4 or 5 drinks.My family is friends of another famaly who owned and operated a great resturant and bar in Santa Fe for some 25 or so years called Foxes , it was possibly one of two very popular local owned places . Any how , this past year they closed the doors to this place , they said it was just way too difficult controling thier patrions drinking habits and was too hard for the servers to keep up with the amount of drinks as many times people get up and wonder around the inside of the bar visiting with others and order from a number of different wait staff , this was alomost impossible to keep drink counts on 1 or 2 people let alone a place full with close to 100.It is a hard piece of the system, and I for one wouldn't want to be in the business because of all the problems as an owner one can be faced with simply because we cannot be responsible for our own actions.

Yes I agree it is very sad about the deaths and this young man who caused it. He is Military police and is only 23 years old. The base was offering free rides, pick-up and drop offs to any and all military persons, but he didn't take advantage.Now two lives are taken and he will surely see the walls in the state pen for years to come.....I too stay home on New Years and have for some years now, just take the girls out for a steak and then we come home and watch movie or two and will toast here at home with my wife. I do like my beer and I can say , I have had to straighten out over the years maybe some with maturity and even some because I love my family so much and couldn't fathem the thought and would never want to be that cause....Happy New Year Bud....NM

creamofthecrop · Jan 2, 2008

i thought 86'd is when your thrown out of the bar for 3 months, thats what they called it on the last bar fight

Ropinfool · Jan 4, 2008

If the bar made everybody take a breathalizer test before buying every drink, then you could blame the bar. But until then, it's not their fault. There's only one idot to blame and that's him. People need to take responsiblity for their own actions and quit putting the blame on everybody else.

woodruffhunter · Jan 4, 2008

I have no sympathy for drunk drivers. A few years ago my and a friend headed out new years morning to go rabbit hunting. We were a few miles out of snowville when we came up on a car driving about 25 mph down the freeway. When we passed him, we could see him speeding up and slowing down; obviously drunk.

Any way we came of the exit and there was nowhere to turn but right or left. This dumb##%$ comes up on me going about 60 or 70 before we could make the turn. I thought we were hit. He slammed on his breaks at the last minute.

Meanwhile I called 911 to report. The idiot dispather from Utardville told me to call Idaho dispatch since we were on the border. This drunk pulled into the gas station driving reckless and about took out 2 or 3 cars. He stopped near the gas pump and couldn't figure out what to do. He took off, and we followed him back on the freeway to get his plate number. He was leaving us like we were standing still at 90 mph. So I am not sure if he killed anyone or not.

I HAVE NO SYMPATHY from Drunk Driver. However, I don't see how the liquor store/bar can track how much one patron has drank.

Cookie2 · Jan 5, 2008

Sorry your wife is catching so much grief here nutt! I guess people don't understnad that it IS the law here and she is DOING HER JOB prosecuting the owner. I think it must be too hard to understand. I believe that it is illegal to serve one who has obviously(key word) had too much to drink. It IS irresponsible to serve or sell to them and that's all there is to it. No discussions about it. You don't give a loaded gun to a three year old and you DON'T sell booze to someone who is obviously drunk. If you do you are respondible in part for what happens afterwards. I bet these people have that little sign in their window stating that they "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" What's that for??????????

Ropinfool · Jan 7, 2008

Her job should be to prosecute him. I have no sympathy for drunk drivers either but prosecuting the bar isn't going to stop it. Besides, what if he wasn't at a bar when he got drunk? Who you going to blame then? Plenty of people get drunk at home and then drive. Going after everybody else is just a way for these politicians to get votes. Throw the book at him and quit blaming everybody else.

NMHUNTNUTT1 · Jan 7, 2008

He'll get all of the book don't worry about that.

Let me put it to you guys a different way , put some thought into my words before responding right away , because my words are true....

Lets say , your, wife,sister,or mother works for a company like , WALMART. Now some sorry SOB from the back stock room working late with your family member gets her and rapes her. Now he gets caught and will go to jail , but you damned well know that you or your family is going to 100% certain going to sue WALMART because it happened in their walls , it was their responsibilty to protect your family , because they should be held accountable for what takes place there at the business.The rapist is caught and will pay through the judicial system, but what about the victim???Don't for one second say my words are not true because you damned well know better.Just an example...

Lets go back to this original topic. YOUR son goes to the bar and gets over served, gets drunk and passes out , only to die later that night from alcohol poisoning.You as a parent are wondering why in the world did no one stop serving him, and you want some one to answer for this , true case as this happened in Las Cruces to a 4.0 college student on his 21st birthday.

How about this , you driving home from your kids soccer game and an over served drunk driver hits you head on killing every one in your vehicle except you.Your kids and wife are gone from this life because some jackass had to get drunk and some other jackass didn't stop serving the drunk driver.Another true case example from this past year here in Santa Fe only it was one of three sister who servived, she lost her two little sisters and both parents that night.The airline that over served this guy lost their alcohol license this past Novemeber , my wife was the hearing officer over that deal.

If you can just read my words and place yourself in those true events , then buddy let me tell you , you would damned sure want bar owners more aware of persons NOT being over served!Go ahead and disagree with me, I wouldn't expect you just understand and agree , your responses proove you write before thought, but just look at it from more than just your perspective.And to end this , it just doen't matter what the helll you think , because in this state NM it's the LAW!

Ropinfool · Jan 7, 2008

I do think before i write and it's still wrong to blame someone else. I take responsiblity for my own actions and everybody else should too. I'm from nm and am aware of a couple of those that you described above. I still disagree with you. While they are all tragic, they are the result of a poor decision by one person. I teach my kids that there are consequences for everything they do. If you drink & drive then this could happen, do drugs...... I know we are a sue happy society. Are we really solving the problem or just trying to share our pain? My family has lost somebody to drugs. I don't blame the person who sold them to him. He made the choice knowing what the consequences were. He chose that lifestyle. I chew tobacco and if it kills me, it's my fault. Yes, it is my companies responsiblity to provide a save work environment, but if i do something stupid, it's not their fault. The rape thing is a tough one. I'm not sure what walmart could have done to prevent that one. If somebody walks into walmart and shoots somebody else, is it walmarts fault?....i think not. Another idot this year in denver i believe, shot a rifle in the air for new years and the bullet went through a roof and killed a lady. If he's caught are we going to prosecute the person who sold him the bullets? Where do we stop?

NMHUNTNUTT1 · Jan 7, 2008

Ropinfool , you say "you" take responsibilty and that you teach your kids.That is very good other than you only control your own actions.It's great you can take responsibilty , it's sad in our society too many others cannot. Now you say you teach your kids , but they decide what they will do regardless of what has been taught.My parents did a good job raising myself my brothers and sisters , yet there was a time in my life that "I" KNEW MORE THAN ANYBODY, and I made some very stupid decisions , not because I wasn't tiaght right but because I was ignorant. Your words...

While they are all tragic, they are the result of a poor decision by one person. well this is true and that is why these laws for liquar establishments have been put into place , because my first posts on this thread stated that "we" cannot and don't always make the best of decisions , more so when alcohol is involved.....

MortgageMan · Jan 7, 2008

Just curious. How does a bar owner decide when they should stop serving someone? If .08 is the legal limit then any amount over that could get them in trouble, right? For many that is 2 or 3 beers. I am curious as to what the procedure is for a bar. What are they required to do to protect themselves and their patrons? They obviously don't breathalize anyone. They could count your drinks and divide by your weight or something like that but even that may not be accurate. I agree with everyone 100%, people that DWI should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I have no sympathy for them. They are the ones to blame because they made that choice.

NMHUNTNUTT1- What are bars supposed to do by law?

nickman · Jan 7, 2008

LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-08 AT 05:30PM (MST)[p]Well, I was going to leave this alone because it was obvious that you were NOT going to see my point of view. You are clearly to young to appreciate the ethic.

I would advise caution when telling others to "think" before they respond....it it obvious that your wife has all the education in the family.....argueably, misplaced.

Now you throw in the Walmart thing.... which I totally fail to see the connection....along with all those other examples.....you are simply looking for someone to blame for someone elses mistakes.

This will give your wife experience for when she goes into private practice and can sue a sh..load of people and then you can afford expensive hunting trips several times a year.

Cool, it's the modern way. Have at it, but don't expect the rest of us to "drink the kool-aid" along with you.

NMHUNTNUTTG · Jan 7, 2008

nickman I'm very open minded and try and see the views of others.Your right about her being educated but don't understand your arguably mispalced comment..If you will please explain...

As for my examples , I'm not trying to blame anyone else,I was trying and giving an example to you or any others by asking you to put yourself in the place . I stated the "State Law" Jack aSS! Not my views or opinions but state mandated law!

Yep she may just do that, go and sue the helll out of people just so I could benifit and go on multiple expensive hunts ...I don't expect crap from you , your obviously not able to see from outside the blinders on your head , your set in your "old ways and yes I'm young and probably a jerk at a times.It's not my intention , if you read my posts they are not aggressive towards anyone except law breakers.Yes I see your views and understand where you come from , but because I don't drink your kool-aid and just agree with you , I'm the one in the wrong , too young and uneducated eh.I have tried to converse in this thread, others have too, we won't always agree but doesn't mean anything other than we don't agree.Yet some come on here and show their briliance and their such strong educated back ground by saying I'm wrong and how much my wife is hated, simply because she is doing her job and I don't agree with you. Well you know what that little white speck on top if chicken shitt is right , well it's chicken chit too , does the side of your head hurt from your ears stretching???As far as I'm concerned nickman , your nothing more than that little white speck....Larry

NMPaul · Jan 7, 2008

A guy buys a bar. He now has the ability to sell a mind impairing substance that is strong as most illegal drugs just the only difference is that it is legal.

This guy has the ability to make good money, but, he also has the liability of the product he is selling. If he wants to push the edge of the envelope to make a few extra bucks he is making a business decision that may cost him his business. If he is not careful about who he hires he is also taking a chance.

I do not pity the business at all that allowed a customer to leave drunk and now may pay the price. They know the rules.

Sorry to hear about the loss.

By the way i own 2 Aamco Transmissions and in one of my shops i have 3 different guys that have multiple DUI arrests. I tell them straight up that they should not have a license. They are also very good guys in many other aspects.

NMHUNTNUTTG · Jan 7, 2008

NMPaul you probably have said the best words to this whole thread. My oldest brother was a 10 year veteran of the NM State Police before passing some years back , but my other brother got pulled over by some other police officers , he was drunk. They called my older brother who was then a sgt. and asked what they should do.My older brother said they were to uphold the law, that the law was not biased or intended for some guilty and not for others guilty.They arrested my brother and took him to jail , it was a very hard lesson.He now services pump jacks in the natural gas fields in San Juan county and last year recieved a safety award. Your sure right that just because they make a mistake, they like most people still have so much good to offer and are for the better part decent people.

nickman · Jan 8, 2008

See..........now you have resorted to name calling. I guess I can rest my case, you just simply aren't going to get it.

jmcenulty · Jan 8, 2008

I think we should just outlaw alcohol all together, because it's obvious that no one in society today is responsible enough to self govern their own actions. Better yet we should take away everyone?s car and make everyone use public mass transit. This would drastically reduce all vehicle accidents. We should also put cameras in all public spaces to monitor any malicious behavior such as a rape in Wal-Mart. Wouldn't this be a utopia society where you didn't have to worry about others free choices violating others right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Although under a totally controlled society what would be life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
Wake up our freedoms are slipping away and it is at the price of "protection". There are many groups out there with a lot of laws that they are trying to pass under the idea of "protection".
I for one do not drink or smoke but I do not want someone telling me I can't. Our society was created to be a free society not a controlled one.
Now before you start reading into this and adding words to my posting, I am not advocating that all laws should be abolished. It's obvious that some laws are needed. Like murder, stealing, drinking a driving, rape, etc.. What I am saying is that it's observed to start going after others because of some one else's actions and giving up our rights is not the answer.

NMHUNTNUTT1 · Jan 8, 2008

Nope I'm not going to get it , not from you when your not willing to see the position and reason of the law. NMPaul said it best , re-read his post.You rest your case , now that I resorted to name calling eh , I believe it was you who said "I hate your wife", with no knowledge of her or what she is like , yep you showed how educated and mature you really are.But when your called out and given a title VERY FITTING, you go back and say "you rest your case"....the only thing I get from your post is you are dead set in your ways , and not willing to see anything from another point of view and that unless another simply agrees with you , the other person is just too young and un-educated.Buddy you need to look in the mirror and realize your not always right nor are you even close to being clever....I know, I'm thinking about my own words as I write this , I'm being a jerk but so be it , it's only to a little white speck....

3Toes · Jan 8, 2008

nickman,

Is there a point that you will agree that an establishment that sells alcohol has some resposibility to their patrons and the community.

When I offer drinks at my home. I feel compeled to get everyone home safe. I take the resposibility, no one else.

Do you feel that a bar that sells to an obviously drunk patron, then allows that patron to leave. Lets say they don't get into a vehicle, but rather freezes to death. Or dies of some other alcohol related cause. Or, walks out into traffic after being obviously over served.

I agree that the individual is resposible for their actions and choices, but shouldn't the same arguement hold for the choices made by a business owner that endanger their patrons or other people.

jmcenulty,

The difficulty has always been obtaining a societal balance. A persons right to drink shouldn't endanger others so we have laws. But, I content that a persons freedom to smoke shouldn't interfere with others right to enjoy a smoke free environment, or cost us additional money in health insurance. I read an article recently that indicated a dollar value that each person that smokes costs everyone else in health insurance costs. I can't remember the exact number so I won't guess, but I would love to have that money for hunting trips. Balancing freedoms for all has always been the issue, and will never truely be resolved.

Ropinfool · Jan 8, 2008

LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-08 AT 12:04PM (MST)[p]jmcenulty

Guess that was the point I was trying to make. Well said.

COSA · Jan 8, 2008

LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-08 AT 09:04PM (MST)[p]You and your wife are probablly going to make a heck of a living in the future off sueing people. But, you and me both know that this sueing second person stuff is wrong. The only reason to include them in a lawsuit is because the person who's really responsible has no assets. So live it up, drug dealers have no conscience where they make their money either (since you like making absurd comparisons). Lawyers are the biggest bloodsuckers on our economy. 90% do nothing POSITIVE. And we wonder why all our jobs are going overseas?

And the money laywers make off these 2nd person lawsuits, costs each one of us at the cash register, or in insurance premiums. They love to blame the insurance companies. Like any business, insurance companies are going to make a profit, say 20%, otherwise there would not be insurance. Without these bloodsuckers, we could probablly save 10-20% off the Gross National Product. Our country is so messsed up, we let other countries sue us in our courts (because they would not have a chance in their country), and supply financial aid and forgive debts to the same country? Can you tell I hate lawers?

nickman · Jan 8, 2008

Again....I never said that the establishment did not have a responsibility to control who they serve.....my point was and still is, how far does that go and what is "obvious" and what did the customer do after he left the bar?

There are just too many gray areas to throw a blanket over the facts and blame the bar. If ALL THE FACTS proove that the bar overserved, then the law applies. But there better be some solid facts or it's just BS. Period.

"Ambulance chasers"....did I coin that term....not.

Somehow I don't seem to be the only one on here that thinks you and your wife are slightly off center on this one.