Fee/tag increases and applicant behavior - predictions/opinions?

huntjock

Active Member
Messages
253
Ok. I just had to take a walk after reading the fee increases. With the WY moose hunt being my next target, that is where I really had to catch my breath. Bison applicants - I feel for ya.

And, apologies if this has already been hashed/rehashed in another thread. If so, maybe this will take a different angle, or perhaps additional ideas and opinions will be offered.

Simply, how much will the price/fee increases influence demand? Short term? Long term?

And, how likely are applicants to lower their sites, that is to change their objective from "stay in as long as I need and wait patiently for a better unit" to "draw quicker, even it is in a lower quality unit"? For example, if I had been intent on drawing a tag in unit 38/41 and was planning to bank PP's until I was in the top pool, how likely am to now "settle" for 1/34/42 or 26/23 and draw while I am still in a 2nd-tier pool instead?

Resulting revenues to WYGF short term and long term...not even going to go there.

(Separate topic, WY moose related) Is this a first step toward the ultimate goal of a completely random drawing (like Idaho), the next steps perhaps including 1) setting a specific number of years whereby those remaining with PP's would continue to have the opportunity to apply and draw in a PP draw, and 2) reducing the number of PP tags in each of those years - whereafter, it goes to a completely random draw?

Disclosure: non-resident, 19 moose points, 10 elk points, 7 deer points, 5 antelope points, 3 adult children and 1 youth child with varying points for the same species. I stopped applying for moose for one of my kids last year, while the 2 oldest are still in the game @ 10 and 11 points.
 
So many individual factors in play.

Based on factors in my personal equation: I think short term results will result in lower draw odds for units that take 4.5-9 points and the regular general tag. I think individuals on the fence about keeping their double digit points and going for a perceived primo unit will settle for a mid-tier hunt. Those on the fence with a point or two more than are required for regular general hunts will burn them on said tag.

I've never hunted a general season there. A regular general tag every 2-3 years will cost $800+ when you add all the BS fees/applications. I can hunt good OTC units closer to home for $200-$300 less every year so if/when I draw, WY will not get my money anymore.
 
For those in the max point pool that are after a specific tag will likely not change their plans due to the price increase. I know I'm not.
 
After watching these games in multiple states for years this is my conclusion. don't expect much of an effect on most tags the increase isn't major.



The bison tag increase will have an effect , because it's huge . if you want a WY bison tag and want it bad enough to pay this much this is your year . in a year or two hunters will accept it and apply again.


The other tags won't see much difference , especially in your point class. how many guys in reach of their tag will change plans over a few bucks ? very few. it may discourage the lower point pools and have an effect down the road though.


I look at it this way, WY screws us over with increases all the time but they also allot us the most generous percentage of tags in return. I drew my moose and sheep tag I'm out on those but for everything else I'll apply as long as I can walk no matter what the price is.







Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
I think many people in the mid-lower point levels will drop out of sheep and moose. Special draws might be easier. Regular might be harder. Bison will be easier. The economy is doing well enough there will still be a huge demand.

The price changes looked at over the past 4 years caused me to change plans 3 years ago. I could see the future of increased prices and possibly decreased allocations. I dropped down and drew a lesser moose tag and I am happy with the decision. The new prices have made me change plans to get my kids drawn while at the cheaper prices.

The next worry is if the ratio for the sheep, moose, bison goes from 80:20 to 90:10. That idea has gained traction over the years. If it happens, those species will lose 50-75% of nonresident permits. All of us want the best tag, but sometimes the best tag is the one you can draw....
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-18 AT 10:34AM (MST)[p]First off, the G&F didn't gain any money with these fee increases because the Legislature eliminated the General Fund money (at least 6 million dollars) it was getting. They still project a one million dollar shortfall and within 4 years the budget will be in the hole far enough where drastic cuts will have to be made or fees increased accordingly. In regards to the frequent increase comment, I don't know why that was stated because this was the first fee increase of any kind for the WYG&F since 2008. Yes, a couple of the increases for PPs and the Bison tag were ridiculous, but most were in line with all the other western states. IMHO people are going overboard when they say they won't hunt WY when it by far is the best western state for NRs to hunt as far as NR tag allocations and comparable prices with the other states. Time will tell and when the odds come out after the draw this summer then we'll know what effect these increases had. Until then nobody really knows what will happen and it's just a guessing game at this point and time.
 
How does WY compare to CO in giving out NR tags? I know CO is pretty liberal in their tag allocation to NR compared to most western states??? . Thanks
 
I agree with most that not many people will back out of the point gathering to get their hopeful units unless they see it as impossible to catch the points to draw a moose or a sheep tag. I'm fighting the idea of dropping out of the moose points with 13 as a non resident or hang in just in case a bunch drop out making it a possibility down the road. I am hoping to burn my antelope and elk points this year not because of the price increase but because I am excited to come hunt Wyoming for both hunts!!! Hoping to draw 45 type 1 elk with 1 less than max and 75 antelope with plenty of points for that hunt. Planning to make the trip over for both on a 20 day vacation in September. Best of luck to everyone in the draws and a great 2018!
 
>How does WY compare to CO
>in giving out NR tags?
>I know CO is pretty
>liberal in their tag allocation
>to NR compared to most
>western states??? . Thanks

I don't see how you can compare the two or with others when CO only has 5 day seasons so they can run a ton of hunters through their system and make a ton of money doing it that way! Wyoming has a ton of tags for NRs with lengthy seasons in most areas, as well as the general elk tag that allows you to hunt a lot of units all over the state. Not so in CO!
 
>I agree with most that not
>many people will back out
>of the point gathering to
>get their hopeful units unless
>they see it as impossible
>to catch the points to
>draw a moose or a
>sheep tag. I'm fighting the
>idea of dropping out of
>the moose points with 13
>as a non resident or
>hang in just in case
>a bunch drop out making
>it a possibility down the
>road. I am hoping to
>burn my antelope and elk
>points this year not because
>of the price increase but
>because I am excited to
>come hunt Wyoming for both
>hunts!!! Hoping to draw 45
>type 1 elk with 1
>less than max and 75
>antelope with plenty of points
>for that hunt. Planning to
>make the trip over for
>both on a 20 day
>vacation in September. Best of
>luck to everyone in the
>draws and a great 2018!

IMHO you should wait at least a year to see what the bull tag situation does. Rather than drop out and waste all the PP money you have spent building those points I would at least put in for one of the 2 or 3 units where you could at least draw a cow tag with your points.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-18 AT 07:09PM (MST)[p]In the past when there has been a license fee increase the number of people applying for licenses goes down the first year of the increase, the second year of the increased prices the number of people applying is close to what it was prior to the increase. By the third or four year after the increased prices the number of applicants is back up to or exceeds the number prior to the increase.

What will happen this time around is anyone's guess.

ClearCreek
 
Have to pay to play and that comes with decisions....Plenty of units to ?draw? with some research...

The nail for me, will be if the ?Outfitters? are able to snivel their way to more tags, our tags as non-residents...Then like, NM I'll write WY off!


'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-18 AT 11:10PM (MST)[p]>soooo, jeff/buzz who's gonna spill the
>beans??

What could you mean Bob?
 
I think Idaho tried that a few years back with application fees. I don't remember how that turned out.

I watch these posts concerning fee increases. Despite low inflation in this country for many years, the outfitters continue to raise their charges every year for guided hunts. The norm for a 5 day deer hunt in this part of NW Wyoming is around $ 4,000.00 to $ 4,500.00. That is for the most part an opportunity at a "dink" buck. Then you throw in the high cost of a "must have" long range rifle and scope and also all the "right" optics and you are talking some serious money. After that, you also need all the "best" clothing and boots and you are watching the cash register cha-changing. You add this to the fact that hunting for many has become nothing more than a competition for the best scoring animal in the woods. Size has become more important than the hunting experience. The ultimate result is hunting big game is becoming really expensive and only for those few that can afford it. I guess we get what we deserve.

I will continue to apply for tags as a resident in Wyoming. I will continue to hunt DIY. I may occasionally wander into Idaho because I have a lifetime hunting license in that state. That would be only to hunt deer or perhaps lion.

I used to think the cost of golf, skiing and fly fishing was out of control. These sports have nothing on the cost of big game hunting.

just sayin...mh
 
>Have to pay to play and
>that comes with decisions....Plenty of
>units to ?draw? with some
>research...
>
>The nail for me, will be
>if the ?Outfitters? are able
>to snivel their way to
>more tags, our tags as
>non-residents...Then like, NM I'll write
>WY off!
>'Ike'
>Bowhunter...


Let's hope that never happens and I know a couple guys that will work hard along with at least one organization to see that SY and his WYOGA cronies don't get what they want!
 
>>Have to pay to play and
>>that comes with decisions....Plenty of
>>units to ?draw? with some
>>research...
>>
>>The nail for me, will be
>>if the ?Outfitters? are able
>>to snivel their way to
>>more tags, our tags as
>>non-residents...Then like, NM I'll write
>>WY off!
>>'Ike'
>>Bowhunter...
>
>
>Let's hope that never happens and
>I know a couple guys
>that will work hard along
>with at least one organization
>to see that SY and
>his WYOGA cronies don't get
>what they want!

I hope not too, as I really like Wyoming! If there's anyway to help TG, let us know...



'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 

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