failed expandables

SNYPER · Nov 23, 2005

saw first hand last sunday why i will never shoot expandable bladed broadheads:

went deer hunting w/ my buddies last sunday, i went along to take photos since i already filled my tag.
we were on the utah extended hunt along the wasatch front.
we spotted a nice 4x4 buck following some does around about 300 yards below us, right where we were only 20 minutes previously.
so we turned around and started stalking down to him. we got within 80 yards of him when he saw us. the deer trotted over the ridge, we followed. when we got to the other side the buck was watching his backtrail when he saw us again he took off again.
the buck ran right to another hunter, who shot and hit this buck in the front shoulder @ only 10 yards.(we watched it happen)
ok so most of you think right on, hit the front shoulder penetrated into the lungs, buck is dead right???
wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!
we walked down to congratulate the hunter as he was in the right spot @ the right time. after talking with him we offered to help track the deer. following the trail we found his arrow only 30 yards away. we looked at it and it had only penetrated 3-4 inches
not enough in our opinion. he was shooting a bow-tech bow, carbons w/ expandables (don't know which brand).
we did see the buck on the other side of the canyon climbing up the hill. watched him til he bedded. the other hunter thanked us for the help and went to follow the buck. don't know if he recovered the buck or not. but from watching him climb the hill the buck looked to be ok for the most part.

any way point of the story is:
would have a fixed bladed broadhead (like a muzzy, which i shoot)
blasted throught the bucks shoulder.
talking w/ my buddies we all think so
what do y'all think

snyper

2rocky · Nov 23, 2005

I don't think that at 10 yards, any other broadhead would have penetrated better. From your story,it sounds lke the buck could have been quartering to the hunter?

The way I look at it is this: Indians killed deer sized game with flint/obsidian arrows from bows with less KE than a modern Compound bow. I think shot placement is the key here.

Expandable broadhead vs. fixed debate has been done to death...just go through the Archery Talk archives if you want to read about various scenarios where they worked/ didn't.

My experience: 2 bladed SNYPER expandable (I know ironic huh?) at 25 yards, broke a rib going in and coming out, complete passthrough. Not a nick on the blades.

Muzzy's are a good BH. I'll use them on Elk when I get a chance.

cpugsie · Nov 23, 2005

I agree with 2rocky on everthing including the attributes of the Snyper by Rocky Mountain. This is one of the only expandables anyone should use. They have a cut on contact tip, open rearwardly and have a devastating entrance hole. I have seen first hand, jack-knife style expandables with less than desirable results. My $.02.

Lien2 · Nov 23, 2005

I think any broadhead has trouble going through a shoulder, not just expandables.
With that said, I still will not shoot expandables. I know they work for some and many swear by them, but I will not trust my shot of a lifetime on rubber bands, moving parts and moving blades that take energy to open.
Just my .02

Lien2

Kirby · Nov 23, 2005

I took my buck earlier this year with mechs, specifically Spit-fire 85 grs, they busted the sholder, and took him down. I didn't get the penetration I wanted, but don't believe it was the mechs that caused that. I'm unsure as to if I will continue with mechs, or go back to fixed blade, but I don't believe that mechs are worse than fixed blades. Shot placement is key.

Kirby

When in doubt, floor it.

Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy" until you find a big stick.

wfm · Nov 23, 2005

LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-05 AT 06:28PM (MST)[p]Sounds to me he hit the front shoulder bone which is hard to break through. I use Rocket Steelheads and have had great luck. I beleive if you place the arrow behind the shoulder, you could have a field point on and still kill, but thats my personal opinion.

redelkarcher · Nov 23, 2005

I too shoot Rocket Steelhead expandables. I killed my buck this year at 47 yds. Went in right behind the front shoulder and came out right through the bottom part of the front shoulder on the other side. I hit my buck last year with a muzzy in the front shoulder and only got 8" of penetration, but I think it largely depends on exactly where you hit the deer. The reason being because the front shoulder is of course thicker in some spots more-so than others. But you can never beat hitting an animal right behind the shoulder.
Anyways I am happy with my expandables!
redelkarcher>>>---------------->

swbuckmaster · Nov 23, 2005

I killed a 250lb deer last year with a grim reaper 450 grain arrow at 16 yards. It was 1/4 facing me. My broadhead hit the front right shoulder broke three ribs with one of its blades and stuck in the oposite side pelevis bone. When the deer turned to run it broke the arrow inside it. The deer anly ran 20 yards.
I killed my deer this year with a wachem broad head, and a 325 grain arrow full pass through with same angle shot, 20 yard track job. The grimm reaper had a larger hole and more damage but at longer shots that bigger hole with a lighter arrow might not penatrate as well. That is why I switched to the wackems.
I dont think it matters what you shoot as long as you dont stick it into a large bone. That being said some people try to shoot expandables to compensate for not tunning their bow properly, even though their arrow still hits where their field points do it might fly with a wiggle and those arrows won't penatrate as deep.
I wouold recomend either broadhead. Both work very well at the longer yard shots we have out west.

c3 · Nov 28, 2005

I hit a small 4x4 buck in the shoulder blade with a muzzy 100 3 blade and it didn't go all the way through. It was a second on my buddies deer he had already wounded and was on the move.

They don't always go through even with 60 ft lbs of KE and a good fixed head.

Cheers,
Pete

ArcheryRyan · Feb 17, 2006

I shot two forkies last year and hit the back side of the shoulder and it blew right threw and got the double lung and clipped the heart and didnt hurt the arrow at all. It was a 100gr. minimax in my eyes they work just fine my friend went to africa and killed everything he shot at 16 animals with a bow so i think they work just fine.

NMHUNTNUTT1 · Feb 19, 2006

I've killed animals with both 100 grain vortex , 100 grain wasp jack hammers and now I'm shooting 100 grain ultimate rockets 3 blade fixed heads . I believe shot placement is everything , period . Broadside behind the shoulder or slight quartering away behind the shoulder and a good sharp head will get the job done .I do believe it takes to very correct wieghted arrow with the right grain broadhead to get the best flight and most KE at POI , BUT even more so when using expandables....NMHUNTNUTT

elknut1 · Feb 21, 2006

http:www.elknut.com
Snyper, you & your friends are right, it doesn't take that much KE to get through a bucks scapula or shoulder area, but you do need a head that will stay together & more than the norm on total arrow weight will increase the odds of penetration that much more!

I've put muzzys 125-3-blade through a muley bucks shoulder blade more than once, it will blow right through it with 53#+ KE with a minimum 450grn arrow. I've also put a muzzy head through an elks scapula with a 550 grn arrow with aprox. 55# of KE, I don't reccommend it but I have done it at 30yds. The point is the head did stay together.

I've also put a magnus stinger in 125 grn 2-blade with bleeders, (4-blade) through an elks scapula, it blew through it like it wasn't even there!

This last year my son put a spike bull down with a 600grn + arrow tipped with a Swickey head out of a recurve in 125grn through this bulls scapula, he was only shooting 40# of KE, again it all depends on your setup for ultimate penetration!!

A setup with total arrow weight of aprox. 500grns & a good cut on contact head like Swickey--Stinger--SnufferSS--Silver Flames--Razorcaps-etc. and shooting in the 235+fps will get the job done! When shooting fixed blade heads your best bet is to shoot at least 60# of KE with muzzy type heads to assure ultimate penetration through elk sized bone!! The heavier your total setup the less KE you need, especially so for 2-bladed heads!-------------------ElkNut1