Expanded restrictions on shed hunting

[jm77]

The interim Legislative Travel-Rec-Wildlife committee will be hearing testimony on expanding shed hunting restrictions to the eastern half of Wyoming in August. I'm posting this hoping to get some input, especially from (but not limited to) residents, about what shed hunters think of this.

Please let me know if you're not a resident if you comment. If you want to talk about this privately feel free to PM me.

IMO, shed season statewide should be removed and "problem" areas where wildlife may be harassed during the winter months, should be closed to ALL vehicle travel.

 

[mulecreek]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-15 AT 12:45PM (MST)[p]>
>IMO, shed season statewide should be
>removed and "problem" areas where
>wildlife may be harassed during
>the winter months, should be
>closed to ALL vehicle travel.
>
How would you deal with the legitimate travel that would need to occur on many county roads that travel through some prime winter range in western wyo? Drive hwy 189 from I80 to Kemmerer in the winter and you will see more deer than you can shake a stick at. With no shed season what's to stop me from parking in one of the many turnouts and walking in to shed hunt. Lots of other areas that have the same issue (muddy speedway, calpet road, etc).

I am not opposed to travel restrictions at all but I am not sure dropping the shed season all together stops the harassment problem potential.

 

[jm77]

>How would you deal with the
>legitimate travel that would need
>to occur on many county
>roads that travel through some
>prime winter range in western
>wyo? Drive hwy 189
>from I80 to Kemmerer in
>the winter and you will
>see more deer than you
>can shake a stick at.
> With no shed season
>what's to stop me from
>parking in one of the
>many turnouts and walking in
>to shed hunt. Lots
>of other areas that have
>the same issue (muddy speedway,
>calpet road, etc).
>

I think we need to think out of the box here. As long as you're not shed hunting in western Wyoming you can walk and drive anywhere it's legal. Only shed hunters are being restricted.

How much can walking shed hunters harass deer?

Maybe a different date?

Maybe winter range only closures that include foot traffic.

 

[nfh]

My issue is they pass a restriction then more will follow. Then next is no shed hunting.

I spend a lot of time shed hunting. I have come across several game and they know it isn't hunting season and they don't panic. Other factors stress the game more. But im sure some people push their limits on animals.

Kinda off topic the all so wonderful forest service wants to close down 151 miles of road. They said they cant afford to maintain when they don't anyway. Luickly a club here is fighting them out. But I guess my point is things will slowly shutdown. Soon I will have to pay to horseback a trail or even a trail could get shutdown. Like I said the restrictions start small and they tend to grow

 

[HiMtnHntr]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-25-15 AT 08:19AM (MST)[p]I agree with you JM77. Closing strategic areas may make more sense, but those areas would have to be well-defined and then enforced (which is already difficult).

Experience tells me that areas where vehicles are prohibited really clears out the riff-raff . . .


A season would definitely "define" the issue, but I'm not a fan of more regulation . . .

 

[CrabClaw]

These regulations have no substantiated scientific evidence to back them up that actually proves that wildlife is being negatively impacted by shed hunting.

I would also like to see the regulations against shed hunters removed and I am very much in favor of travel restrictions during the winter months.

The animals are not helpless like many of the proponents of these regulations would have you believe.

When is the comment period for this?

 

[jm77]

>These regulations have no substantiated scientific
>evidence to back them up
>that actually proves that wildlife
>is being negatively impacted by
>shed hunting.
>
>I would also like to see
>the regulations against shed hunters
>removed and I am very
>much in favor of travel
>restrictions during the winter months.
>
>
>The animals are not helpless like
>many of the proponents of
>these regulations would have you
>believe.
>
>When is the comment period for
>this?

At the TRW committee meeting, if there are enough negative comments, the committee may vote no to sponsor the bill. If the committee votes to sponsor the bill it will be a tough fight in the legislature to stop it.

Contact all the members of TRW, Senate & House before Aug 10th

CC, +1

 

[mightyhunter]

In 2015, I went shed hunting at first light on the first day that an area was open to shed hunting. I rowed my raft across the Clarks Fork in the dark to get to the spot. In years past, I had usually found a few elk and deer antlers on this winter range area. All I found was boot tracks from folks that had jumped the gun and gone in days or weeks before the area was open to human traffic. We live in a society that thinks more laws will somehow make everything better. It just isn't so.

I agree with NFH that new laws only lead to more restrictions and more control that may not prove to benefit anyone or anything.

just sayin...mh

 

[ICMDEER]

I can't really give meaningful input without details of what may be proposed. I know illegal access to closed areas (like the Wick Unit) in eastern Wyoming is a real problem. But making a blanket change to address specific problems is rarely the answer. Are any restrictions considered for private lands? What about checkerboard lands? People tend to stash antlers before the shed antler season opens, then go in and take what they have hidden earlier. Our game warden is frustrated with the situation.

I think the motivation is good, but not sure it will do much but create a need for more enforcement. Could a hiker/person go into the areas to take pictures?

I agree with vehicle closures where necessary. But that's already being done in many of the critical areas that I'm aware of.

I guess I'd need more details but in general, I feel like we have enough rules and regulations.

 

[jm77]

Jim

I will have more info on this after Tuesday, but it pertains only to public lands. Apparently, there is an issue somewhere around Cody, which is on the east side of the Divide. Current shed hunting seasons are only west of the Divide. The talk is just to do it statewide and I will post it here after I find out.

To answer your questions about others, any other activity is not affected by shed hunting restrictions.

Jeff

 

[mulecreek]

Regardless of what is done I see no reason to create more or different regulation if the resources are not allocated to enforce it. We have travel restrictions all over the state and we are hard pressed to find a road closed sign that does not have 4 wheeler tracks going around it.

I believe the vast majority of the issues regarding shed hunting revolve around people pissy about someone getting sheds before they do and not about harm to wildlife. I am not in favor of any regulation that is developed to address this concern. Travel restrictions would address the real issue of harassment but I have concerns about any agencies ability to monitor them. How many times have shed hunters complained about seeing the winter range criss-crossed with 4 wheeler tracks. This is already illegal.

 

[Ticks N Tines]

If the regulations remain in place for SW Wyoming, I would say they need to be better defined. Right now the law is:
"No Picking up Sheds until May 1st"

That doesn't mean I can't be out on the range:
-Shooting Rabbits
-Hunting Coyotes
-Snowshoeing
-Hiking
-Riding Horses
-Looking for fossils
-Looking for arrowheads
-Looking for Bigfoot

Many guys use the above excuses to get out there and mark sheds on a GPS. So in my opinion if you are going to shut an area down, you restrict ALL activities in the area to protect the deer.

 

[sageman]

As in most cases the few are going to ruin it for the many! What will happen in the end is all shed hunting will be stopped!

 

[godeep]

Just shutdown all motorized traffic in the winter range, then lift the date restrictions. Just make it clear where the winter range is.

 

[SMOKESTICK]

Jeff,

Even though WY SFW strongly supported the current expansion of authority to enforce shed antler hunting, the G&F Department attempted to expand that authority to include the entire state. It was our position then and I doubt that our position will change that it wasn't warranted on the eastern side of the continental divide; therefore, WY SFW stopped the expansion then. WY SFW is obligated to listen to their reasoning; however, I doubt our position will change. Some have actually regretted helping expand their authority as we were afraid they would seek to apply it statewide. The only reason it passed in western Wyoming was because we were seeing increased harassment, particularly involving mule deer. The whole justification was to stop wildlife harassment; however, it appears as it has morphed into something else.
Some have even talked about repealing the current law as it appears to have created other unforeseen consequences.

 

[jm77]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-27-15 AT 10:54PM (MST)[p]Bob

There is already a law against harassing game animals. By passing a shed hunting season, did that make enforcing harassment laws any easier? G&F need to enforce existing harassment and push for stiffer penalties, like what the guy got for flying over those elk; loss of hunting privileges.

They should also close critical winter range to all vehicles and repeal shed seasons.

Remember, Utah can start shed hunting in Feb. They are done there in time to hit Wyoming full force on on May 1. More people in the field, more problems.

 

[ICMDEER]

Thanks Jeff. The first two paragraphs of your last post are spot on. Stick with those and get us more details.

Thanks for following this.

 

[TOPGUN]

As a NR I fully agree with Jeff on this one!

 

[Deerlove]

Utah can start shed hunting in Feb? Please check your facts.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-28-15 AT 02:14PM (MST)[p]Looks like Jeff knows what he's talking about as the following was C/Pd right from the DWR website:

Tony Wood, Law Enforcement Section chief for the Division of Wildlife Resources, says by the time winter ends, the animals are stressed. Also, the habitat the animals rely on in the winter is wet. "Because it's wet," he says, "it can be easily damaged. Once the habitat is damaged, it can take years for it to recover."
Fortunately, Wood says you can have fun gathering shed antlers without stressing the animals and damaging their habitat. "A free course that's available on our website will show you how," he says.
Wood says you must complete the course if you want to gather shed antlers in Utah between Feb. 1 and April 15.

 

[2_Point]

So where in that quote does it say you can't pick up sheds in Utah before Feb 1? It does not say that because you can. No shed season in Utah, but if you go shed hunting between Feb 1 and April 15 then you take a stupid, 4th grade level quiz online and print off you guaranteed A certificate.

All I know about Wyoming shed hunting is that we pick up a lot more antlers now there is a season than we picked up before the season was put in place. Seems like a great thing as the deer are not pressured constantly. Leave the season in place. No idea if other parts of Wyoming need a season, but Western Wyoming needs one to protect the animals from residents and nonresidents.

 

[TOPGUN]

I don't believe I said that you couldn't because I didn't know, but after looking it up I found they have just the one restriction or season if you will that has one. Whether it's a stupid restriction like it sounds is beside the point, but Utah does consider it a season when the animals are at the most vulnerable time of the year and below is another C/P from the DWR website:

"You may gather shed antlers or horns ? or parts of shed antlers or horns ? statewide, but there is one seasonal requirement.

From Feb. 1 to April 15, you must have an antler-gathering certificate on your person while collecting shed antlers or horns. You do not need an antler-gathering certificate at any other time of the year."

I can't understand why any state would allow people out over known winter range areas whether they are just taking pictures or doing anything else that might cause an animal to move when it doesn't want to. IMHO the critical winter range areas should be so designated and no human presence should be allowed within that boundary for a specified amount of time. A violator would have nothing to fall back on if caught and it would seem like with the limited amount of GWs in most areas that it would make their job a lot easier. The way it is right now, if I'm correct, it sounds like a lot of them do very little because of the way things are set up so loosely in Wyoming.

 

[jm77]

Mike

I don't think human presence in wintering areas is harmful to animals if they are not chased or harassed. I hunted mountain lions for 15 years all winter long, so I was able to see wintering elk, deer and antelope. The deer many times wouldn't even move when you drove or walked by them. If they did move, they would just generally get out of the way. Same with antelope.

The elk is another story. They wouldn't let you get close and generally would leave the drainage. I honestly have never seen winter stressed elk. They are hardy animals and not prone to die-offs except by disease.

That being said, I would leave it to wildlife managers to determine if certain "critical areas" should be designated no motorized travel or no traffic at all.

 

[TOPGUN]

Just got this email from G&F this afternoon:

JACKSON ? The Wyoming Game and Fish Department reports that convictions have been realized for several cases of illegal shed antler collection in western Wyoming. This past spring in the Jackson, Pinedale, and Big Piney areas, a total of six citations and three warnings were issued to nine different individuals for collecting shed antlers during the closed season. Total penalties assessed resulted in $2,100 in fines and one individual lost hunting privileges for two years in Wyoming and potentially 43 other states that have a violator compact with Wyoming. Additionally, in the Evanston area, four citations and one warning were issued during the closure period in 2015 totaling $880 in fines. Game and Fish personnel also apprehended an individual who was illegally collecting antlers within Grand Teton National Park and that case was turned over to National Park Service officials.

 

[Ticks N Tines]

So what are they planning to do about it?

I think they need to put out more "Planter" sheds in these areas. Not only would they catch a ton of guys doing this, but they would spread the word that Fish and Game is cracking down and putting out a bunch of planters. If people were aware the the fish and game was doing this, they would be very hesitnat to pick up sheds. Especially if the penalty was $500+.

Use a ton of planters, and make steeper penalties. I think that will help a ton.

 

[dz]

Topgun your attitude towards human presence needs to stay on the East coast.

"I can't understand why any state would allow people out over known winter range areas whether they are just taking pictures or doing anything else that might cause an animal to move when it doesn't want to. IMHO the critical winter range areas should be so designated and no human presence should be allowed within that boundary for a specified amount of time. A violator would have nothing to fall back on if caught and it would seem like with the limited amount of GWs in most areas that it would make their job a lot easier. The way it is right now, if I'm correct, it sounds like a lot of them do very little because of the way things are set up so loosely in Wyoming. "

I guess we could ask several million people to not go home during the winter months so we don't bother the animals. Wasatch front, Boise valley and many more. Sounds like Al Gore that we all should live in the Big city in a box mentality. I guess here in rural Oregon I would have to move out as I have deer in my yard every day. Especially since we chase the deer out of our yard, how terrible. I have spent hundreds if not thousands of days in my life out on the winter range, and I do not feel like I have added stress to the animals that I have seen. Of course I don't have my head in the sand and with the ever increasing Shed hunting it does need some management. I'm not going to profess to having all the answers but I do think either it goes to no restrictions or find a way to manage it a way to keep all from picking up the sheds early. Maybe the chips in them is the best way, I don't know. But I do know that we wont be able to walk out side some day if we start saying thing like no human presence allowed.

DZ

 

[TOPGUN]

>Topgun your attitude towards human
>presence needs to stay on
>the East coast.

Putting me and Al Gore in the same thoughts and words in my mouth that weren't even said is a real hoot! FYI MI isn't on the east coast and all I was saying was about what Jeff feels may need to be done just in the smaller critical winter range areas where animals are deemed very vulnerable during the late winter and early spring by the game biologists. There are millions of acres outside those critical wintering areas for everyone to recreate and do their thing. It doesn't seem to make much sense to say no shed hunting during a certain time period and yet allow quads, 4x4s, and people all over the same area just because they aren't shed hunting and that was the gist of my comments that apparently escaped you. Look at the jackass that just got nailed chasing those elk all over in Wyoming in his plane and he didn't seem to feel there was anything wrong with it! Did you? What you do when you're out there and what others do may be completely different things and detrimental to the animals and that's all I was saying. Then again, it's this "me me me" society we live in nowadays where many only think of themselves and could give a damn about their neighbor or anything else that might get in the way as long as their pleasures are satisfied, including violating the law to do it. This thread was just brought up to run ideas by that might help our animals and there was really no need for your attack, especially when you extended it way past what I was even talking about!

 

[jm77]

At this time, for every negative impact that is being blamed on shed hunters, there is a law those offenders can be written on. Wy G&F has chosen to make MORE law to solve this issue instead of enforcing what's already there for them on the books to use.

Now we have landowners using this tactic, in eastern Wyo, to keep people off their leased public land during late winter and early spring. The difference is the beef is now trespassing and illegal off road use. These offenses also have laws to enforce them, but once again let's make more law to regulate shed hunters so wardens in eastern Wyo will have to deal with this illegal shed hunting BS.

What really weighs heavy on my mind, is when will they turn to mtn lion, predator or small game hunters, claiming they are the ones causing issues for wildlife in winter?

 

[dz]

I copied and pasted your words. What part did I make up? I go to the winter grounds to see the animals. I don't go to recreate. I do agree with you that the definitions of shed hunting needs to be addressed. These smaller winter ranges are a vast amount of lands. I just don't see that we need new laws to further keep us off the lands we so dearly love. There are laws in place for many decades that address the harassing of game. If harassing is what has taken place (chasing with a vehicle) then absolutely something needs to be done. So to answer your question yes he was wrong. My attack came from your words of "human presence" Did I take that out of context, I don't think so.

DZ

 

[bigbuckshooter]

The only thing an expanded shed area will do is keep the honest people out and the law breakers will keep doing it. I would rather see more road closure areas in effect. At least If someone's gonna hike in a ways to get some antlers they will have earned it and I don't think it will affect the wildlife as much. Although people will still drive around these closures to get back in there. But I think it's just gonna keep an honest person like myself from enjoying what I do. Is it that hard to wait till April or later to go find horns. I went in June and found plenty that everyone else must have forgot about.

 

[TOPGUN]

"Definition of RECREATE---something people do to relax or have fun; activities done for enjoyment"
Now if that doesn't include what you are doing when you go out to look at animals then you are just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing. You C/Pd my words, but then extended them way out past what they were meant to mean and I explained that in my rebuttal. It now sounds like you don't feel that there are any areas that should be out of bounds to you or anyone else. Is that correct or not because that's what it sounds like when you commented on winter range? I agree that we don't need new laws, but rather that some common sense be used by people out in areas so animals aren't harassed. That, unfortunately, is asking too much of a lot of people like I mentioned earlier in this "me me me" society we now live in. There are lots of designated areas that are out of bounds in Wyoming, but it sounds like a lot of people don't pay any attention to the law whether it's to shed hunt or do any other type of recreation. It's due to those violators that laws are on the books in the first place and unfortunately we all pay for it. When I stated human presence it was in the context of getting close enough and doing something that would stress the animal, not just the presence itself and I apologize for not making that very plain. Done properly and at distance I don't believe what you are doing would present a problem. Done improperly where the animal has to run away to escape that presence and if it happened repeatedly due to other human presence is where I have a problem. I think we are all just looking out for the best interest in the animals and how we get there is the problem.

 

[dz]

JM77 I agree 100% with you that it is just a step in taking everything away. It gives those in power more power. That is why I have the problem with Topgun saying there should be no Human Presence. Topgun to answer you about recreate, I go to the winter range where the animals are, not the other millions of acres where the animals are not, and I don't own a 4 wheeler. I know he means well and we all want to protect what we have or what we remember what we did have and do all we can to keep and even expand the herds. But in doing so we start crossing the line of freedoms that were fought for by those who came here before us. I don't post much in these kind of post but some times it just over cooks my grits.

DZ

 

[TOPGUN]

DZ---Please go back and read the last sentence in the opening post Jeff put up because it's essentially the same thing I have stated and you are saying you agree with him, but would like to hang me from the rafters! IMHO when your "freedom" is more important than the welfare of the animal if that freedom is proven to be detrimental to them then maybe that freedom needs to be curtailed. Again as I stated earlier, you may not be causing a problem the way you recreate, but it appears we have a growing number of slobs out there that are ruining it for you and something needs to be done to make it easier for GWs to stop those people. I don't know whether it's chip in sheds, putting some areas completely off limits like there already are, or maybe making the penalties for violators higher.

 

[nontypical]

Every winter I spend a considerable amount of time on the winter range photographing and videoing mule deer. I have carried on this annual tradition for a few decades.

Here's what I have found: If you stay in your vehicle, the critters don't get too worked up about it. If you get out slowly and remain next to your vehicle, they don't get bothered by that activity, either. It's when you walk away from the vehicle that really gets their attention and makes them move away; possibly creating the stress on them that this law was intended to stop. I use a window mount and telephoto lenses on my photography/video equipment most of the time. In earlier years, my cameras and tripod were too big for the window mount, so I slowly got out of the vehicle and got my equipment out and stood next to the vehicle while I did my thing. When you start to move away from the vehicle is when you get their attention and begin to move them.

All that being said...competition for sheds was really the ultimate reason behind the shed law in the first place. People began shed hunting in late December and January. Guys would walk right into a herd without any regard for their well-being. If one buck in a herd of 8 was seen to only have one antler, the chase was on for that other antler. Since greed and selfishness usually over-ride common sense, those few folks that screwed it up for the rest of us became the focus of G&F and ultimately the shed law was instituted.

I don't know what the solution is, but it sure seems to me that the shed season law has so many loopholes that it's becoming a real enforcement problem. There is currently an active group trying to get the shed season law repealed here in SW Wy. This situation could be brought up during the next legislative session.

I have several thoughts and suggestions on this issue...most would be very unpopular with some folks for the most part.

As Jeff has pointed out already...you would virtually have to close down the entire area to human presence to achieve what this law was intended to. Do we really want that?

When this law was first proposed in the legislature, myself and others put up resistance to no avail. We could see what was coming, and there were already laws on the books to prevent wildlife harassment. Not sure if I've ever seen a law passed so quickly with little or no opposition.

Good intentions...bad result?

 

[jm77]

Nontypical pm'd you