Enjoy the article

Interesting at how much of the article is given to WYOGA and Gilliland. After all, it was that group that offered something of value to a public official. That is a big no no.

Also, WYOGA has a track record of suing the G&F over licensing issues. Maybe ole' Sy shouldn't throw stones when he's living in a glass house.?‍♂️
 
Hilarious. Crank the former attorney General whining like a school girl. Shaul doubles down:
“It’s clear from the angry tone of your letter that we’ve hurt your tender feelings. We are so sorry! Who would have thought that a grizzled, veteran trial attorney could be so sensitive?” Shaul wrote to Crank. “May we suggest you call your Mom, a close childhood friend, or Sy Gilliland for support. That might help.”
 
IMO, if RS wants to F with Pat Crank he better have his sh!t together. Right now he looks like he brought a knife to a gun fight.

Also, never thought anyone could make Sy look like the reasonable one.
 
Regardless of this little pissing match there is a bigger issue at foot here in WY. Sadly the resident and NR DIY guys are up against the WYOGA in a battle for the future of hunting in WY. Battles that have taken place in other states.

As resident hunters if we do not stand united we will go down a path that hurts the average hunter in the name of profits for the outfitters.

I find it interesting that no real attention was given to the idea that WYOGA infact violated the law by offering gifts to elected/appointed officials. While the officials claim to have not accepted, it still should be a concern that the WYOGA even felt like they could/should be bribing the commission.
 
mulecreek said:
Is it against the law to offer a gift to a G&F commissioner?

You have evidence of a bribe?
Click to expand...
Steve, you and I think differently about this apparently. No organization related to sportsman, outfitters or wildlife conservation, should be offering to an appointed public servant, a gift with obvious monetary valve. I see this as highly inappropriate and very possibly illegal. Plaques or certificates of service would seem totally fine to me. I hold WYOGA responsible for this, because they should have never offered the trip.

I don't in any way condone the harsh rhetoric from Shaul and think Pat should have handled his response a little different also.

I can say this; I believe Pat Crank is a straight shooter, has served with integrity and don't think he would be involved in any way with the wrongdoing he's accused of. I was personally present when he schooled an outfitter who spoke down about resident general tag hunters in the Black Hills. Buzz and I have sat down with him to discuss issues and I hold much respect for him.
 
Crank doesn’t deserve any respect for such a cry baby response. Besides, did he turn down the offer before or after Rob’s letter? No organization related to sportsman, outfitters or wildlife conservation, should be offering to an appointed public servant, a gift with obvious monetary value and potential for influence.


“Obviously, you know this is protected speech. So, we can only interpret your "Cease and Desist" letter and its inherent threat of a lawsuit as a clumsy attempt to intimidate, bully and silence criticism of your conduct as a public official.
That you saw fit to send copies of your "Cease and Desist" letter to the Governor of Wyoming, members of the Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce and Chair of the Senate TRW Committee reinforces our concern that your letter was a political attempt to intimidate and silence criticism, rather than any serious allegation of slanderous/libelous/defamatory conduct.
Mr. Crank, please don't try to intimidate, bully or silence Mountain Pursuit or any other Wyoming residents with "Cease and Desist" letters and their inherent threat of lawsuit. This conduct is beneath someone of your legal background and impressive career accomplishments.
Pat, finally, it's clear from the angry tone of your letter that we've hurt your feelings. We are so sorry! Who would have thought that a grizzled, veteran, trial attorney could be so sensitive?
May we suggest you call your Mom, a close childhood friend, or Sy Gilliland for support. That might help.
Respectfully,
Rob Shaul, Founder Mountain Pursuit
CC; Governor Gordon, Senator Affie Ellis, Members of the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force, Wyoming Press Association for distribution to its members
 
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Jeff, I don’t know that we see it all that different. I am asking a genuine question, is it illegal to offer a gift to a Commissioner? It appears that it is illegal to accept it but that doesn’t necessarily make it illegal to offer. My response was to elk96 who stated that WOGA violated the law. I am not sure they did. Is it inappropriate? Maybe. Is it a simple mistake with no ill intent? Maybe. I don’t know either way and neither does elk96. In my job I get offered trips, meals, stuff all the time. I have a policy of saying no. Sometimes it is from people I do business with and sometimes it is not. I don’t necessarily feel these vendors are doing anything wrong I just know that I don’t want any appearance of impropriety. He also stated that WOGA committed bribery. He doesn’t know that to be true anymore than I do. Accusing people of crimes is a serious thing and I find it odd that he or anyone else with such a casual understanding of the details would be so certain.
As far as Shaul goes I am on both sides of the fence. I really like much of his platform. But I really dislike the manner in which he conducts some of his discussions. I have similar feelings about trump. Like the ideas, dislike the way he conveys his message. I get particularly frustrated because I have spoken with Rob several times through emails and had what I consider valuable discussions.
As far as Crank, I think he is the real deal. I thought he was a damn valuable Commissioner to me and my beliefs. I think he is smart as hell and was one of if not the most informed and knowledgeable Commissioners. I am serious when I say, you want to get into a legal fight with Crank, you better make sure both barrels are loaded. Not sure if Robs fight with Crank is just but either way he needs to step up his game.
 
mulecreek said:
Jeff, I don’t know that we see it all that different. I am asking a genuine question, is it illegal to offer a gift to a Commissioner? It appears that it is illegal to accept it but that doesn’t necessarily make it illegal to offer. My response was to elk96 who stated that WOGA violated the law. I am not sure they did. Is it inappropriate? Maybe. Is it a simple mistake with no ill intent? Maybe. I don’t know either way and neither does elk96. In my job I get offered trips, meals, stuff all the time. I have a policy of saying no. Sometimes it is from people I do business with and sometimes it is not. I don’t necessarily feel these vendors are doing anything wrong I just know that I don’t want any appearance of impropriety. He also stated that WOGA committed bribery. He doesn’t know that to be true anymore than I do. Accusing people of crimes is a serious thing and I find it odd that he or anyone else with such a casual understanding of the details would be so certain.
As far as Shaul goes I am on both sides of the fence. I really like much of his platform. But I really dislike the manner in which he conducts some of his discussions. I have similar feelings about trump. Like the ideas, dislike the way he conveys his message. I get particularly frustrated because I have spoken with Rob several times through emails and had what I consider valuable discussions.
As far as Crank, I think he is the real deal. I thought he was a damn valuable Commissioner to me and my beliefs. I think he is smart as hell and was one of if not the most informed and knowledgeable Commissioners. I am serious when I say, you want to get into a legal fight with Crank, you better make sure both barrels are loaded. Not sure if Robs fight with Crank is just but either way he needs to step up his game.
Click to expand...
In researching whether it's illegal for a group to offer a gift to a public official, it seems likely it may not be unless it is meant as a bribe. I don't think it was meant as a bribe, but clearly it wasn't well thought out by WYOGA.

Trust me, Sy Gilliland can't claim stupidity or that it was a "simple mistake". It was clearly an attempt to gain good graces for his group with the remaining Commissioners. That's my thoughts on it.
 
WYOGA knows exactly what they're doing offering this type of deal. No way to prove its a bribe, but also, IMO, very inappropriate.

Whether or not the Commissioners in question turned down the trips really doesn't matter at this point. The important thing is that they did.

I also think this really does point out the lengths that WYOGA will go to for feathering their nest.

As to Commissioner Crank in particular, he was always very fair in his work as a commissioner. He helped us on several issues and was always willing to talk to us anytime we asked. Crank was instrumental in getting the drone/flight issue solved, was the push behind lots of funding, got the new Wyldlife foundation going, and pushed the NR elk draw date back. Lots to like about Crank as a commissioner...and further, I trust him...he's a good person.
 
Well this is a good example of why i cant support mountain pursuit. No probably wont ever find a group i agree with on everything but his stances on predator control are so far outta wack im not surprised by his antics here
 
The guy is obviously firing shots in the dark hoping one hits. If that is all wyoga is up against we're in poor shape
 
Yeah, I am certain I was incorrect in saying it was illegal only because we cant prove intent. But I feel others have pointed out that the offering was clearly wrong and at the very least an ethical violation.

I agree Shaul really shot himself in the foot on this one. Jumped the gun for sure. I am still willing to support the 307 Hunter and the 90/10 push but not willing to support Mtn. Pursuits. I am not familiar with the commissioners in detail, but I am not a fan of using cease and desist to silence anyone, at least when you are a public figure you should expect and accept that this will happen. You need to have some thicker skin.

As a result I feel both sides had the chance to take the higher road and wish that both did...
 
Wyoming government officials are prohibited by statute any gifts of value exceeding $250 in value that could be inferred as an attempt to influence a public official. I think we all know a river rafting trip and included lodging far exceeds that. To think WYOGA didn’t know this is highly dubious and naive as they have legal council of record.

Wyoming has ethics rules that dictate how such gifts may be given, and what they may consist of. The list of permitted gifts is outlined in Wyoming Statutes 9-13-102 and 9-12-103. It includes:

  • A certificate, commemorative token or item, or plaque with a value that does not exceed two hundred fifty dollars ($250.00)
  • Food and beverage
  • Any loan, gift, gratuity, special discount or hospitality with a value of two hundred fifty dollars ($250.00) or less
In other words, anyone can give a lawmaker a gift, or a free room to stay, or perhaps a fly-fishing trip, so long as it’s less than $250 in value. https://law.justia.com/codes/wyoming/2010/Title9/chapter13.html
 

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