Elk tag changes- which hunt will people choose?

[tallelkchaser]

Been mulling over the changes to the elk tag allocation and where people are going to apply now that tag numbers are available. Are people going to stick to the the early rifle? Jump to mid rifle or muzzy? I feel like there may be some opportunities to get a tag in a great unit with that mid rifle tag but those units can be way different that time of year. How do you think people will approach the new setup and place their bet?

 

[elkhunterUT]

I think as long as scopes are allowed on muzzy’s you will see some movement from early rifle to muzzy hunts, especially now that the early rifle hunt is only 5 days long.

The mid hunt dates are good and will provide a great opportunity for guys to draw a tag in some great units this year if they are willing to get after it a bit more and compete with more hunting pressure from spike tag hunters.

 

[Togwotee]

I didn't wait 25 years to hunt anything except a September rut hunt. so I'm not changing anything.

 

[gundog2]

In some ways the early rifle is even more attractive because there will be substantially fewer hunters out there, but the shorter season is scary. I would say that they archery hunt is also a little more attractive as I think they have a few more days of low-pressure hunting in the rut, after the general archery hunts end. The muzzleloader hunt is no better or worse, than it was. The biggest differences between the early rifle and muzzleloader hunt, aside from the weapon, is that you also have the general season muzzy deer hunters out there during the LE muzzleloader elk hunt. Having scopes on the muzzleloaders diminishes some of the perceived limitations of the muzzleloader, but I personally would have major concerns trying to kill an elk beyond 200 yards with a muzzy. Maybe 200 yards is even stretching it for the average muzzleloader, but I know people are building long range muzzleloader systems now.

 

[SDBugler]

I normally apply for either archery or ML. However, this year I already have an AZ archery elk tag that will take up my late September. I will be putting in for either a mid season or late season rifle tag this year with my 18 points, but waiting for the NM results to come out before deciding.

 

[hossblur]

I was in for muzzy all along.

But, my oldest and youngest both decided to go late.

Oldest because of football. Youngest because 5 days isn't "enough time away from teachers"?

 

[Bux n Dux]

I didn't wait 25 years to hunt anything except a September rut hunt. so I'm not changing anything.

With that attitude, you’ll have to be fine with waiting another 10+ years for a good tag with the new allocations.

In case you haven’t been paying attention lately, the early rifle hunt isn’t the peak rut. Muzzleloader and quite possibly now, mid season tags will see much better rutting action. But by all means, you keep holding out for that 5 day, mediocre rut hunt. It’s your choice to make.

 

[elkassassin]

Maybe Listen To Your Kids There hossy!

I Wonder Where They Learned That?

I was in for muzzy all along.

But, my oldest and youngest both decided to go late.

Oldest because of football. Youngest because 5 days isn't "enough time away from teachers"?

 

[treedagain]

It will depend on there points/age/desire to hunt

 

[Hawkeye]

I was happy to see the DWR cut way back on the early rifle tags. I’ve said it before, but there is simply no reason to hunt bugling bulls with a rifle during the peak of the rut. I know that Bessy has long dreamed about shooting a rutting 400” bull with his .338 Lapua and 25x Nightforce scope at 35 yards, but that really would not be much of a hunt. The success rates on those early rifle tags prove that point. Utah seems to be the only state that offered such a hunt on a large scale basis. I was happy to see the DWR cut the early rifle tags way back and move most of those tags to the mid season. This is more in line with what other Western states are doing and will make it more of a hunt. I spent a few days on the Wasatch during the midseason hunt last year, and we saw plenty of good bulls.

I am also happy that they extended the archery hunt a little later into the rut. Once again, hunters should be hunting with more primitive weapons during the rut when the bulls are more vulnerable. I know that Vanilla will get after me and curse those darn archers who continually want everything but these are all positive changes. ?

Hawkeye

 

[Vanilla]

I’m already on the record saying I’m okay with the elk changes. Moving tags to the mid-season is fine. Giving whiny archery hunters a little more of September is okay.

What I don’t support, and won’t ever support, is turning large numbers of rifle tags to archery tags and getting rid of entire rifle seasons, which is what a small number of selfish d bags have demanded. Archery hunters have enough tags. Muzzy hunters have enough tags. Rifle hunters have enough tags. If you want to fiddle with the seasons to try and make yourself feel the warm fuzzies, then fine. It’s not going to help with point creep even if anyone has convinced himself it will. It’s not going to make a bit of difference.

But back to the question asked by the OP- I think you’ll see a lot of applicants move off early rifle applications now. If someone had 24 points last year they were looking at 3-4 years before being in the top point pool for the San Juan early rifle tag. (And take another 4 years to clear that pool out.) Now with the reduced tags you are looking at about 8 years until you’re in the top point pool and another 8-9 years to clear that point level out. You could be 16-17 years from being guaranteed to draw that tag if things stayed static. Eventually the masses will figure that out and plans will change.

How much this happens in the first year will be interesting, but we’re going to need 3-4 years in the new elk plan to really have any idea what to expect in the draw. But one thing is sure: these changes to help with point creep were a complete waste. Nothing is changing for point creep, and won’t until they can significantly increase tags across the board, not just between seasons or weapons.

 

[Hawkeye]

Vanilla, thanks for the response. I don't view myself as a whiny archery hunter but others may feel differently. With more of the rifle tags being pushed to the mid-season, I think you will see a slight decrease in success rates and I also think you will see a few more of the top end bulls make it through the hunt. Simply put, bull elk are most vulnerable during the peak of the rut and there is no logical reason to hunt them in large numbers with a rifle at that time of year.

With regard to allocating a larger percentage of the tags to more primitive weapons, I think that would in fact help with point creep. It would motivate more folks to pick a up bow and burn their points knowing the success rate is only around 30% on average. This would allow for the issuance of more tags and would move more people through the system. I get it that some folks do not want to or are not able to hunt with a bow but we are going to continue to face difficult choices given the massive butt plug that is the current bonus point system. Perhaps you and I can debate these issues on our "RIDE" after we talk some common sense to our friend from the "BASIN."

Hawkeye

 

[Bigwiffy]

I’m already on the record saying I’m okay with the elk changes. Moving tags to the mid-season is fine. Giving whiny archery hunters a little more of September is okay.

What I don’t support, and won’t ever support, is turning large numbers of rifle tags to archery tags and getting rid of entire rifle seasons, which is what a small number of selfish d bags have demanded. Archery hunters have enough tags. Muzzy hunters have enough tags. Rifle hunters have enough tags. If you want to fiddle with the seasons to try and make yourself feel the warm fuzzies, then fine. It’s not going to help with point creep even if anyone has convinced himself it will. It’s not going to make a bit of difference.

But back to the question asked by the OP- I think you’ll see a lot of applicants move off early rifle applications now. If someone had 24 points last year they were looking at 3-4 years before being in the top point pool for the San Juan early rifle tag. (And take another 4 years to clear that pool out.) Now with the reduced tags you are looking at about 8 years until you’re in the top point pool and another 8-9 years to clear that point level out. You could be 16-17 years from being guaranteed to draw that tag if things stayed static. Eventually the masses will figure that out and plans will change.

How much this happens in the first year will be interesting, but we’re going to need 3-4 years in the new elk plan to really have any idea what to expect in the draw. But one thing is sure: these changes to help with point creep were a complete waste. Nothing is changing for point creep, and won’t until they can significantly increase tags across the board, not just between seasons or weapons.

Move ALL rifle hunts to mid October-November give archery hunters the entire month of September, and increase archery tags. The only whining I hear is from rifle guys whining about a 5 day hunt. If you can't find and kill a bull in 5 days in the middle of the rut with a gun you should take up knitting, golf, or finger painting.

 

[SureShot]

How about giving every weapon one week and spread the seasons out to give the elk a break instead of chasing them non-stop from August through November? Then you could really bump up the tag numbers.

 

[SPAZ]

I didn't wait 25 years to hunt anything except a September rut hunt. so I'm not changing anything.

Although I think you're looking a gift horse's teeth over too hard, I'm hopeful the other 48 Non Residents with more than 25 elk points, and the 66 also with 25 points have the same philosophy about it as you.

 

[Vanilla]

Move ALL rifle hunts to mid October-November give archery hunters the entire month of September, and increase archery tags. The only whining I hear is from rifle guys whining about a 5 day hunt. If you can't find and kill a bull in 5 days in the middle of the rut with a gun you should take up knitting, golf, or finger painting.

Hawkeye, see the above. This is what I’m referring to in the small group. The vast majority of hunters in this state just want to hunt and let others hunt, like you and me.

Then there are some that are all about other things. I’m not on board with those folks. But I’m not a selfish d bag.

 

[hossblur]

Maybe Listen To Your Kids There hossy!

I Wonder Where They Learned That?

It's funny, until I remind him drywallers don't care about hs graduation, be careful what you wish for

 

[Bigwiffy]

Hawkeye, see the above. This is what I’m referring to in the small group. The vast majority of hunters in this state just want to hunt and let others hunt, like you and me.

Then there are some that are all about other things. I’m not on board with those folks. But I’m not a selfish d bag.

Haha you want to hunt the way YOU want to hunt, when that way is questioned the guy is a d-bag. "All about other things" like pulling the rifle elk hunt out of the rut? I'm sorry sound management offends you.

 

[tallelkchaser]

I’m already on the record saying I’m okay with the elk changes. Moving tags to the mid-season is fine. Giving whiny archery hunters a little more of September is okay.

What I don’t support, and won’t ever support, is turning large numbers of rifle tags to archery tags and getting rid of entire rifle seasons, which is what a small number of selfish d bags have demanded. Archery hunters have enough tags. Muzzy hunters have enough tags. Rifle hunters have enough tags. If you want to fiddle with the seasons to try and make yourself feel the warm fuzzies, then fine. It’s not going to help with point creep even if anyone has convinced himself it will. It’s not going to make a bit of difference.

But back to the question asked by the OP- I think you’ll see a lot of applicants move off early rifle applications now. If someone had 24 points last year they were looking at 3-4 years before being in the top point pool for the San Juan early rifle tag. (And take another 4 years to clear that pool out.) Now with the reduced tags you are looking at about 8 years until you’re in the top point pool and another 8-9 years to clear that point level out. You could be 16-17 years from being guaranteed to draw that tag if things stayed static. Eventually the masses will figure that out and plans will change.

How much this happens in the first year will be interesting, but we’re going to need 3-4 years in the new elk plan to really have any idea what to expect in the draw. But one thing is sure: these changes to help with point creep were a complete waste. Nothing is changing for point creep, and won’t until they can significantly increase tags across the board, not just between seasons or weapons.

So the San Juan is an interesting example. I’m sure others here have more experience on the unit, but I have spent a decent amount of time down there. During the October spike hunt, i experienced a completely different hunt. I don’t think those that have waited 20 years for the coveted tag would be happy with that hunt. Can you still find big bulls - absolutely! But in what I experienced between September (old archery rifle and muzzy seasons) and October they were completely different experiences. Could have partially been driven by weather, but man it was a lot harder to find elk during that general hunt.

But then that’s where I start thinking- I could potentially get that mid rifle tag if people know that hunt will be harder and will stick to the early or jump to the single shot rifle season. ?‍ has me wondering where the best odds will be.

 

[Vanilla]

Haha you want to hunt the way YOU want to hunt, when that way is questioned the guy is a d-bag. "All about other things" like pulling the rifle elk hunt out of the rut? I'm sorry sound management offends you.

I’m sorry you think you know what you’re talking about. None of the changes will impact how I want to hunt.

And there is absolutely no biological reason to remove the rifle hunt out of the rut. There isn’t a biologist in this state that will tell you that is harming elk herds. So take your sound management and tell us all about how killing less bulls will help out elk herds.

 

[Vanilla]

So the San Juan is an interesting example. I’m sure others here have more experience on the unit, but I have spent a decent amount of time down there. During the October spike hunt, i experienced a completely different hunt. I don’t think those that have waited 20 years for the coveted tag would be happy with that hunt.

Ask Whoppi if this is the case.

I actually agree with you for the most part. There are people that think if you have X points you are entitled to Y inches. This is why they will be disappointed. The only thing I expect and feel entitled to is when I draw a tag, I get to go make the hunt what I want it to be and have a great time.

I’m willing to bet I’m able to do just that when the time comes!

 

[elkhunterUT]

For a guy who is in good shape, hunts hard, and is willing to go deep where the elk get pushed with some pressure, that mid rifle hunt on some of the more premier units would be a good one to look at this year specifically (hunting with general spike hunters totally sucks, but most guys hunting spikes aren't going to kill themselves for a yearling bull). There will be bonus tags on most all units for NR and, at least this year, I think the draw odds are going to be pretty good on the top tier units. Dates are good too catching the tail end of the rut. May not last, but I would be looking hard there if it were me with 20-25 points.

 

[Bigwiffy]

I’m sorry you think you know what you’re talking about. None of the changes will impact how I want to hunt.

And there is absolutely no biological reason to remove the rifle hunt out of the rut. There isn’t a biologist in this state that will tell you that is harming elk herds. So take your sound management and tell us all about how killing less bulls will help out elk herds.

That's easy, increased archery tags. More opportunity, same amount of bulls killed, more people through the system. Doesn't hurt quality. Aren't you for opportunity???? Unless it impacts you and your hunt? It's ok Niller we see your side as you talk out of both sides of your mouth. A 5 day hunt is a step in the right direction and later archery dates. I hope you draw your rifle hunt before they remove it completely out of September.

 

[Vanilla]

That’s the difference between me and you, Whiff. My opinions don’t just revolve around how it impacts me. But again, I’m not a selfish d bag.

 

[Togwotee]

No, with 25 points I can draw an early tag this year in a mid level unit if I want to I'd bet on that. and I'm not sure I'll ever draw a top tier early tag so I probably won't hold out for one.

Unless global warming or something hits UT hard the elk will be screaming during the early rifle. I hunted Panguitch 20 years ago and took a 382 bull September 18'th and the rut was full on and had been a while.

I'm not thrilled with the prospects of units with 340 bulls being top end but I'm not sure time is going to fix that. With so few bonus tags I'm pretty screwed , I don't have another 25 years to wait and with the new plan I don't know why I would. and there's no way I'm going to top my last UT bull anyway so 330 or 345 what's big deal.

If someone has a better idea I haven't heard it yet and I've talked to some people that should know.

 

[scopenstalk]

That’s the difference between me and you, Whiff. My opinions don’t just revolve around how it impacts me. But again, I’m not a selfish d bag.

So, is it selfish to want to go hunting? Im curious?


For record I hunt with rifle bow and muzzy so I could care less how they distribute tags.........

 

[elkassassin]

I'm Gonna Get A Committee Going To See If We Can Get a Flipper Hunt And a Ax Throwing Hunt And a Spear Hunt Going!

That'll Shorten All Hunts To 3 Day Hunts!

AHHHHHHHHHHH but The Opportunity!

 

[SDBugler]

I’m already on the record saying I’m okay with the elk changes. Moving tags to the mid-season is fine. Giving whiny archery hunters a little more of September is okay.

What I don’t support, and won’t ever support, is turning large numbers of rifle tags to archery tags and getting rid of entire rifle seasons, which is what a small number of selfish d bags have demanded. Archery hunters have enough tags. Muzzy hunters have enough tags. Rifle hunters have enough tags. If you want to fiddle with the seasons to try and make yourself feel the warm fuzzies, then fine. It’s not going to help with point creep even if anyone has convinced himself it will. It’s not going to make a bit of difference.

But back to the question asked by the OP- I think you’ll see a lot of applicants move off early rifle applications now. If someone had 24 points last year they were looking at 3-4 years before being in the top point pool for the San Juan early rifle tag. (And take another 4 years to clear that pool out.) Now with the reduced tags you are looking at about 8 years until you’re in the top point pool and another 8-9 years to clear that point level out. You could be 16-17 years from being guaranteed to draw that tag if things stayed static. Eventually the masses will figure that out and plans will change.

How much this happens in the first year will be interesting, but we’re going to need 3-4 years in the new elk plan to really have any idea what to expect in the draw. But one thing is sure: these changes to help with point creep were a complete waste. Nothing is changing for point creep, and won’t until they can significantly increase tags across the board, not just between seasons or weapons.

"It’s not going to help with point creep even if anyone has convinced himself it will. It’s not going to make a bit of difference."

Of course this isn't going to fix point creep. The demand is WAY TOO HIGH and the number of new people wanting in in future years will far surpass the available resources. But I don't recall ever reading anything about these changes being implemented to ease point creep - but rather a way to to provide a "few" more tags and increase opportunity.

 

[scopenstalk]

I'm Gonna Get A Committee Going To See If We Can Get a Flipper Hunt And a Ax Throwing Hunt Going!

That'll Shorten All Hunts To 3 Day Hunts!

AHHHHHHHHHHH but The Opportunity!

I would hunt with a spear.... not an axe thought that's just too low percentage for me

 

[Vanilla]

So, is it selfish to want to go hunting? Im curious?

Nope, not at all. Selfish is when you want to go hunting but not anyone else. When people actively work to strip opportunities from others that is selfish. No other way around it.

"It’s not going to help with point creep even if anyone has convinced himself it will. It’s not going to make a bit of difference."

Of course this isn't going to fix point creep. The demand is WAY TOO HIGH and the number of new people wanting in in future years will far surpass the available resources. But I don't recall ever reading anything about these changes being implemented to ease point creep - but rather a way to to provide a "few" more tags and increase opportunity.

Not true. Adjusting the elk seasons has been sold as a solution to point creep. Plain and simple. That has absolutely been the narrative. There is no biological need for it to happen. In fact, we should probably be killing more bulls if we care about biology and sound management, not less.

 

[elkhunterUT]

"It’s not going to help with point creep even if anyone has convinced himself it will. It’s not going to make a bit of difference."

Of course this isn't going to fix point creep. The demand is WAY TOO HIGH and the number of new people wanting in in future years will far surpass the available resources. But I don't recall ever reading anything about these changes being implemented to ease point creep - but rather a way to to provide a "few" more tags and increase opportunity.

Agree - we can never fix point creep completely. Way too many people want to hunt. But why would you not seek to "increase the pie" as much as possible in a scenario like that?

The best way to do that is to give tags to less successful weapon types or manipulate season dates to occur at less successful times of the year to maximize the # of tags that can be given without wiping out the resource but ensuring harvest is where it needs to be to keep herds healthy and productive- it really is that simple. I don't think anyone has ever said to remove all rifle tags, but having rifle hunts during the rut really limits the # of tags you can give due to extremely high success rates.

Give lots of archery tags in September and late in early December. Muzzy hunts (with 4x scopes only) during late September/early October and maximize rifle hunts during mid/late-October late November. This approach would maximize # of tags given out while still killing enough bulls to maintain healthy herds.

 

[elkassassin]

Re-Read My Post!

I would hunt with a spear.... not an axe thought that's just too low percentage for me

 

[elkassassin]

Just Open It Up For a FREE-FOR-ALL Year Around & Be Done!

 

[scopenstalk]

Nope, not at all. Selfish is when you want to go hunting but not anyone else. When people actively work to strip opportunities from others that is selfish. No other way around it.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. The archery guy views a rifle guy in September as stripping him and 2 others of an opportunity to hunt. The rifle guy feels slighted if the hunt is moved out of September to lower success rates. I see both sides as being selfish here if that's how the definition of selfish is being defined.

 

[257Tony]

No, with 25 points I can draw an early tag this year in a mid level unit if I want to I'd bet on that. and I'm not sure I'll ever draw a top tier early tag so I probably won't hold out for one.

Unless global warming or something hits UT hard the elk will be screaming during the early rifle. I hunted Panguitch 20 years ago and took a 382 bull September 18'th and the rut was full on and had been a while.

I'm not thrilled with the prospects of units with 340 bulls being top end but I'm not sure time is going to fix that. With so few bonus tags I'm pretty screwed , I don't have another 25 years to wait and with the new plan I don't know why I would. and there's no way I'm going to top my last UT bull anyway so 330 or 345 what's big deal.

If someone has a better idea I haven't heard it yet and I've talked to some people that should know.

2003-2007 ish was peak for quality of Bulls in Utah. With the age objectives being dropped across the board, coupled with quality already down from the peak years, 330-345 will not be as easy as people think.

I'd draw the best unit you can, as soon as you can, switch to muzzy if needed.

 

[elkassassin]

About 2005-2010 in My Eye!

 

[scopenstalk]

About 2005-2010 in My Eye!

hey me and my dad managed to eat a LE archery tag each during that time frame on the wasatch ! haha make you feel better bess?

 

[Vanilla]

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. The archery guy views a rifle guy in September as stripping him and 2 others of an opportunity to hunt. The rifle guy feels slighted if the hunt is moved out of September to lower success rates. I see both sides as being selfish here if that's how the definition of selfish is being defined.

Except keeping seasons the way they have always been isn’t taking anything from anyone. If you keep the five dollar bill you have in your pocket and don’t give it to me, you haven’t taken anything from me. If someone forced you to to remove it and give it to me, that certainly has been taken from you.

That’s kind of ridiculous to even be talking about this. And I even said I was okay cutting the early rifle season down and giving more time to the archery. Yet there are those still demanding more. That is selfish. Period. And I have no time for selfish d bags.

 

[scopenstalk]

Except keeping seasons the way they have always been isn’t taking anything from anyone. If you keep the five dollar bill you have in your pocket and don’t give it to me, you haven’t taken anything from me. If someone forced you to to remove it and give it to me, that certainly has been taken from you.

That’s kind of ridiculous to even be talking about this. And I even said I was okay cutting the early rifle season down and giving more time to the archery. Yet there are those still demanding more. That is selfish. Period. And I have no time for selfish d bags.

It isn't ridiculous to talk about when I'm cruising the forum and see the words "Selfish Douche bags" being said in reference to archery hunters. You're just asking for these conversations with such an inflammatory statement.

I think it's safe to say people, in general are selfish. it could be argued a thousand different ways but at the end of the day I think it's a stretch to keep wagging your finger at archery people only.

 

[elkassassin]

No!

That Don't Make Me Feel Better!

That Sshitt Hurts!

hey me and my dad managed to eat a LE archery tag each during that time frame on the wasatch ! haha make you feel better bess?

 

[Deerlove]

I’m sorry you think you know what you’re talking about. None of the changes will impact how I want to hunt.

And there is absolutely no biological reason to remove the rifle hunt out of the rut. There isn’t a biologist in this state that will tell you that is harming elk herds. So take your sound management and tell us all about how killing less bulls will help out elk herds.

I could buy you a calculator and show you how it would help the point creep.

 

[Hawkeye]

At the risk of bring considered a “selfish douche bag” by my friend Vanilla, I will respectfully suggest that Utah never should have offered any early season rifle tags. There is a reason that all other western states schedule their rifle hunts outside of the rut. While I agree that we will never eliminate point creep, we need to look for ways to move more people through the system without decimating the resource. Moving high-success weapon hunts (rifle) outside the rut and scheduling low-success weapon hunts during the rut should allow the DWR to issue more tags while taking the same number of bull elk. I applaud the changes the DWR made this year, and I hope/expect to see additional changes in the future.

Hawkeye - an archery, rifle, muzzleloader and shotgun hunter

 

[elkassassin]

low-success weapon hunts ?

Every Weapon Is Leaps & Bounds Ahead Of What They Used To Be!

EVERY F'N ONE OF THEM!

 

[Togwotee]

Tony, I agree and that's why I figure I might as well cash in my chips. the top units are going to become the same quality the mid units are now and the mid quality ones will become meat hunts. and 10 years from now when I'm a blue hair I'll draw a tag similar quality to what I can draw today.

It's not just UT, it's going this way everywhere .

 

[gundog2]

Utah offers an unlimited number of permits that allow archery hunters to kill a spike bull, cow, or either sex calf every year on virtually all of our best elk hunting units for the modest price of $50. It is the only unlimited general season big game hunt in the state, to my knowledge, with the possible new exception of mountain lion. Absolutely no accountability for the number of hunters that participate, number of hunter days, or harvest impact. I suggest everyone participate in this hunt and complain that archers don’t get their fair share.

 

[Deerlove]

Tony, I agree and that's why I figure I might as well cash in my chips. the top units are going to become the same quality the mid units are now and the mid quality ones will become meat hunts. and 10 years from now when I'm a blue hair I'll draw a tag similar quality to what I can draw today.

It's not just UT, it's going this way everywhere .

Don't sweat it you won't draw another tag in 10 years

 

[Bigwiffy]

That’s the difference between me and you, Whiff. My opinions don’t just revolve around how it impacts me. But again, I’m not a selfish d bag.

No, you're just anti archery. You talk about being an opportunist, but you want more opportunity for you as a rifle hunter, and piss on everybody else. Call me a d-bag archery hunter all you want, it doesn't bother me a bit coming from a butthurt "opportunist rifle hunter". You can't increase opportunity with a rifle, sorry boss.

 

[elkassassin]

5 Months & Counting Down!

I Can't Imagine How PISS POOR The Moods Will Be Like By Then!

 

[Themaddness]

That's easy, increased archery tags. More opportunity, same amount of bulls killed, more people through the system. Doesn't hurt quality. Aren't you for opportunity???? Unless it impacts you and your hunt? It's ok Niller we see your side as you talk out of both sides of your mouth. A 5 day hunt is a step in the right direction and later archery dates. I hope you draw your rifle hunt before they remove it completely out of September.

That's a lie. With archery tags. More tags equal more wounded elk. Your pretty biased towards archery hunting with out admitting most hunter keep flinging arrows after losing an animal.

 

[scopenstalk]

That's a lie. With archery tags. More tags equal more wounded elk. Your pretty biased towards archery hunting with out admitting most hunter keep flinging arrows after losing an animal.

This is true. It's also true of rifle hunters. I saw a limited bull wounded last year and never found on the early rifle and the hunter killed a different bull the next day. This isn't something that is only an archery problem.........It's a hunting problem.

 

[tallelkchaser]

This is true. It's also true of rifle hunters. I saw a limited bull wounded last year and never found on the early rifle and the hunter killed a different bull the next day. This isn't something that is only an archery problem.........It's a hunting problem.

Would dare say this is likely more true on limited entry hunts as well because of the pressure to kill a big bull after waiting 10-25 years to do so. Doesn’t matter the what weapon type, it’s the person behind it.

 

[Vanilla]

Call me a d-bag archery hunter all you want,

I’ve never called you a d bag archery hunter. I called you a selfish d bag. There is a huge difference. Not as huge as your over-inflated ego, but still rather huge. You’re full of whiffs all over the place. You ought to quit while you’re still only far behind.

It isn't ridiculous to talk about when I'm cruising the forum and see the words "Selfish Douche bags" being said in reference to archery hunters.

Don’t get all sensitive. I’ve said pretty much innumerable amounts of times on this forum and even multiple times in this very thread it is a small number of archery hunters that fit this bill. 98% of archery hunters are just like me…happy to keep everyone participating in the process without taking from anyone else.

There are absolutely selfish people in the other weapon types as well. However, I have only ever seen one subsection of hunters that are trying to take opportunities away from other hunters to benefit their own preferred weapon type. I have literally never heard a rifle hunter ask for archery tags to be cut and given to rifle hunters. Not even a single time…ever. Yet this forum seems to have all the archers that hate every other type of hunters, and quite frankly…screw those guys. Selfish d bags, and I’m not wrong in identifying that. Nothing wrong with 98% of the archery hunters out there and I wish them all the best. I wish more of them frequented this website. I’m sick and tired of special interests and small subsections screwing Utah hunters over. Forgive me for calling a spade a spade.

 

[Vanilla]

I could buy you a calculator and show you how it would help the point creep.

I can explain how this works to you, but I can’t understand it for you. Do your math. It’s not fixing anything.

 

[Vanilla]

There is a reason that all other western states schedule their rifle hunts outside of the rut.

Yet…how many of these other western states can match Utah’s LE elk hunting prospects? Not many…

Maybe we are onto something? Utah does things differently than other places in many areas, not just elk hunting, and there is a reason Utah is better than all these other places. Just sayin.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yet…how many of these other western states can match Utah’s LE elk hunting prospects? Not many…

Maybe we are onto something? Utah does things differently than other places in many areas, not just elk hunting, and there is a reason Utah is better than all these other places. Just sayin.

I don’t agree for a minute that Utah is better managed than other western states. I’ve hunted CO, WY and NV, and I would say their hunting is as good if not better than Utah. I will be hunting elk in AZ this fall and expect the same. I stand by my comment that it is ludicrous to schedule a rifle elk hunt during the peak of the rut, particularly when we facing legitimate complaints about point creep and decreasing quality on our LE units. Give the elk a chance and make the rifle hunters work for an animal.

Hawkeye

 

[deadibob]

I didn't wait 25 years to hunt anything except a September rut hunt. so I'm not changing anything.

I remember sitting in a meeting the year that they were trying to sell us all on going to a point system and they said we would all be able to draw great elk tags approximately every five years.

 

[deadibob]

Hawkeye, see the above. This is what I’m referring to in the small group. The vast majority of hunters in this state just want to hunt and let others hunt, like you and me.

Then there are some that are all about other things. I’m not on board with those folks. But I’m not a selfish d bag.

Okay we get it, you're not selfish.

 

[Deerlove]

Yet…how many of these other western states can match Utah’s LE elk hunting prospects? Not many…

Maybe we are onto something? Utah does things differently than other places in many areas, not just elk hunting, and there is a reason Utah is better than all these other places. Just sayin.

You need to get out more which states have you hunted?

 

[scopenstalk]

Yet…how many of these other western states can match Utah’s LE elk hunting prospects? Not many…

Maybe we are onto something? Utah does things differently than other places in many areas, not just elk hunting, and there is a reason Utah is better than all these other places. Just sayin.

I would suggest you go hunt elk in idaho and wyoming and come back and report.

 

[scopenstalk]

IDon’t get all sensitive. I’ve said pretty much innumerable amounts of times on this forum and even multiple times in this very thread it is a small number of archery hunters that fit this bill. 98% of archery hunters are just like me…happy to keep everyone participating in the process without taking from anyone else.

It's not a matter of being sensitive. It's a matter of it grabbed my attention as someone with an axe to grind and it sparked a conversation......... You can say whatever you want about whoever you want Vanilla, what you can't choose is how people view it or react to it. Anyways. No big deal. I understand your gripe. We don't totally agree but we don't totally disagree either.

 

[257Tony]

Speaking of Rifle vs Archery wound rates, wouldn't the division have some data on that? I know not everyone is honest on their Harvest Survey, but it should provide some insight. Have they ever released that info?

 

[Deerlove]

Don't hold your breath Tony not too many guys lobing thousand yard shots even know if it was wounded.

 

[SPAZ]

I think there's going to be some surprises after the 2023 elk draw stats come out. The early rifle tags might go with less point creep for residents, but for non-residents, depending on the unit, I bet there's going to be a lot of shifting. I have 25 points and was thinking switching from early rifle to San Juan archery. Talked to another guy with the same plan, another guy with a point more than me also with the same plan. And another guy with 27 points going into the draw ALSO choosing archery - he said I'm going to the Beaver. NR archery hunts are going to see some point creep for sure. Maybe some of those early rifle applicants that stick with it, will have a better chance of drawing than they think.

 

[yotebuster17]

Speaking of Rifle vs Archery wound rates, wouldn't the division have some data on that? I know not everyone is honest on their Harvest Survey, but it should provide some insight. Have they ever released that info?

They always used to say that rifle hunters wounded more then archery, but I read something the other day that was about eastern whitetails and they are saying there’s actually way way more wounding then has been self reported in the past. Their numbers were like only 1 in 3 shot with a bow were recovered. We allow a handful of people to bow hunt deer on our place and over the last 7-8 years I’ve been keeping track and it’s actually about spot on. Absolutely terrible to see but essentially they are only running 35-40% recovery rate. I would assume elk in a spot and stalk situation is even lower.

 

[elkassassin]

Short Fuses!

And Hot Tempers!

Just About 4 Months To Go Before Some Of The Aggression Is Released!

 

[deadibob]

They always used to say that rifle hunters wounded more then archery, but I read something the other day that was about eastern whitetails and they are saying there’s actually way way more wounding then has been self reported in the past. Their numbers were like only 1 in 3 shot with a bow were recovered. We allow a handful of people to bow hunt deer on our place and over the last 7-8 years I’ve been keeping track and it’s actually about spot on. Absolutely terrible to see but essentially they are only running 35-40% recovery rate. I would assume elk in a spot and stalk situation is even lower.

I don’t know anyone personally who has to wound three animals with a bow just to recover one.

Never mind, we live and hunt in the west and you are talking about Eastern Whitetail “hunters?”.
DUH! I’m surprised it isn’t 5-1, those Eastern tenderfoot sumbitches can’t hunt! They think thirty yards with a bow is a long shot. They sit in tree stands and sleep in heated ground blinds. They couldn’t still hunt if their life was on the line.?

No comparison.

 

[deadibob]

It's not a matter of being sensitive. It's a matter of it grabbed my attention as someone with an axe to grind and it sparked a conversation......... You can say whatever you want about whoever you want Vanilla, what you can't choose is how people view it or react to it. Anyways. No big deal. I understand your gripe. We don't totally agree but we don't totally disagree either.

I can always choose how I want people to react by what I say, it’s pretty much my greatest ability.? I just decide how I want someone to react and then speak accordingly.

Generally speaking there are only two reactions that interest me. The first is to piss them off and the second one is to make them cry.??

 

[tallelkchaser]

I think there's going to be some surprises after the 2023 elk draw stats come out. The early rifle tags might go with less point creep for residents, but for non-residents, depending on the unit, I bet there's going to be a lot of shifting. I have 25 points and was thinking switching from early rifle to San Juan archery. Talked to another guy with the same plan, another guy with a point more than me also with the same plan. And another guy with 27 points going into the draw ALSO choosing archery - he said I'm going to the Beaver. NR archery hunts are going to see some point creep for sure. Maybe some of those early rifle applicants that stick with it, will have a better chance of drawing than they think.

Curious why archery compared to muzzy?