Don Peay and his two edged sword

YELUM

Long Time Member
Messages
3,515
While Don and his all powerful orgs slash forward for the supposed benefit of all hunters, I get the feeling that his hypocrisy is using the back side of the blade for his personal agenda.

I use the word hypocrisy because of this. Over the last month I have recieved several emails and read statements by Don blasting the wolf advocates over their push for wolves in the surrounding states. He quotes the original numbers that were agreed upon, and states the the supposed current numbers and redicules them for going back on their word.

Over 10 years ago, Don and his organizations suggested to the state to put sheep on Antelope Island for the purpose of stocking other huntable areas. Now he/they are doing the same thing the wolf advocates are doing. Wanting more.

I am not a wolf lover, and don't want them any where near Utah. But I do love taking my family out to the island to see big deer, and in my opinion, hunting them on that island will remove them from a viewable option. That deer herd hasn't grown in 20 years, and if they start taking two trophy bucks a year out, along with normal winter kills, me, you and everybody else will have seen the last of the watchable big bucks of the island. There is nothing wrong with having unhuntable deer.

Yelum
 
I think Don started out with good motives to help Utah wildlife and average hunters. However, He and SFW have gotten greedy and now cater to the rich guys and the average hunters get the leftovers.

If there is a nickel to be made by hunting sheep and deer on antelope island, you can bet Don will get his share.
 
Where do you get the idea that Don or SFW is behind the Antelope island hunt? From the news release looks like a state deal with ALL the money generated from hunts going back to Antelope island state park.
Antelope island sheep have been transplanted in several areas of the state and are doing great. With a couple new sheep units opening up this year because of those efforts. Guess we can thank Don for the added hunting units and tags offered to the general public.
 
I don't think there is any doubt that SFW and FNAWS have done wonders for elk and sheep in UTAH. But there is no doubt they are behind the push to hunt there. These bills are introduced by legislaters from S. UT who have never set a foot on the island. Trust me. Don or his constituents put the bug in there ear.

Yelum
 
I'm with isayNUNYA. It looks like the added opportunities in other areas of the state and possibly Antelope Island is a win win win.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-10 AT 05:52PM (MST)[p]From what I heard Rep. Noel proposed to limit the money that goes back to State Parks to $200,000. Any additional would go who knows where. It is speculated that a Sheep hunt would fetch as much as $250M and a Mule Deer hunt could bring nearly the same.
 
Ya, its a win win. Like when Obama as president was a win win. The black community is happy, and the tree huggers are happy. Thats a win win too. But there is a whole lot of loooooooooosserrrrrrrrrrs.

Yelum
 
If an Antelope Island sheep would sell for $250K, I wonder what the White Rhino at Hogle Zoo could fetch?

Eel

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-10 AT 08:21PM (MST)[p]Giving the State Parks the moneys generated from these tags is a slippery slope. Who is next in line for their handouts? Municipalities? Water Companies? SITLA? UDOT? Counties? It is a dangerous road to go down.

I don't care who is behind the idea, it just seems like a poor idea.

I also tend to agree with Larry. There is nothing wrong with having a few places to go see these animals, close to the city, easily accessible. We don't have to kill everything. If they do open it then I want a 3 day Chuckar Pass.....

Eel-Thanks for the laugh!

-------------------------
www.sagebasin.com
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I'm also against an Antelope Island sheep or deer hunt, UNLESS, it was a DRAW ONLY primitive weapon hunt, and only the tag holder and one companion are aloud to pursue.

I fear that an Antelope Island deer hunt would turn into something as silly as the governors tag hunts where a dozen guides are scattered all over the island trying to turn up the biggest buck. I don't like that type of "hunting".

I see no problem with having a hunt that DOESN'T raise a bunch of money! Why not two DRAW ONLY tags...an archery and muzzleloader?? I would support that. It would be a serious challenge for any hunter, and fun, without needing to be sold to the highest bidder or a circus of guides running all over the island.

This Antelope Island hunt stuff has come up MANY times over the years. Never, has it been suggested to just have a draw hunt out there, it's always about needing that big money tag also. I don't like that. Not every hunt in this state needs to be created to make lots of money. Some can actually be just to manage the herd a bit and let a few guys have fun.
That's why I have always been against the Antelope Island hunt, because those who want this hunt to happen are only thinking $$$$$$$$.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-10 AT 01:17AM (MST)[p]+1 also! That's why the big push now I'm sure. When the economy recovers, and it will, the money issue won't be as valid an argument as when everyone is broke. The same thing happened 7-8 years ago when this was an issue for 2 deer tags. One to a big money bidder (I think his name was Karl Malone).
 
After reading Brian's comment below about them wanting to auction these tags then I'm against it as well. I was under the impression from your original post that it would be added to the available lot of draw tags. I forgot we were talking about Utah where everything is auction.
 
A guy walks up to an attractive young lady and asks "Will you sleep with me for a million dollars?" To which see replies, Sure. He then says "How about for $100?" She replies "What do you think I am?" He says "That has already been determined. Now we're just haggling over price."

Every thing is for sale, and Don is a master at getting the most for it. He saw that the DWR wasn't making enough $$$ for tags and figured a way to make big money, and line his pocket at the same time. He used our money and our tags to make the state a lot of money for wildlife. He got people to spend $650,000 for for $30,000 worth of tags.

Its not the fact that these expo tags are public tags, because they still went to the public. They just made more money from them. And with that money they help the wildlife. Thats a fact. But I have things that aren't for sale, and if it was mine, the island would be one of them.

Yelum
 
I totally agree. I like to look at the deer out there, and don't think they should be hunted no matter the price that it would fetch. The herd manages itself. Plenty of winterkill bucks get killed out there. It shouldn't always be about money. Think of everyone that enjoys the island.
 
Yelum I don't know who you are but what I do know is that you haven't done anything to help me or the next guy have a better hunting experience in this State. Why does it matter that a "guy" or an "Org" has clout and can push an agenda. When it comes to State and Government it is all political and when it's political is it laced with money deals. The State governs Wildlife and in order to survive and grow government it uses all resources to accomplish it. IMO if we sportsmen don't have representation the legislature would destroy quality and opportunity.

What I find absolutely mind boggling is that guys like you and "Elkantlers" and many others on this site hammer "Orgs" and "Guys" like SFW and Don Peay. Even Founder chimes in on his complaints for Mule Deer and none of you guys have lobbied for anything on the Hill. If you want something or if you want to prevent something get your A$$E$ in front of a lobbyist and plead your dang case! Fact is that Don Peay has and will continue to lead the State in how they manage wildlife because he understands the politics behind it all. Don also is a great leader which explains why he can do what he has in "getting things done".

Did you know Yelum that Don built a business sold it for a lot of money and decided that he could now do and help with wildlife across the west and so he invested every dime and with the interest from that money "HIS OWN FREAKING MONEY" he put it back into these "orgs" and created another business. That is what entrepreneurs do they take what they have and create more of it. Did any other person on MM do that???? Did you or any other guy do anything like that??? Why should I even hear your complaints of what is happening if you haven't done anything?

So here he is making $$$ off his investments from the sale of his own business, and instead of buying stone and dall sheep hunts in B.C or going to South Africa, or to Alaska and hunting bear, moose, etc. Or going on a cruise with his wife and enjoying his wealth on some beach in South America, the guy said I'm going to fulfill a need that he as a leader and an entrepreneur saw. He saw what was happening in the political world of wildlife and had a vision of where it was headed and decided to do something about it.

You and every other guy on here that say's anything bad or negative about what he is doing is a coward. That is right a coward because you don't have the leadership skills or the courage to do anything else except sit in front of your computer and complain!!!!

Founder: I like your idea of a draw system on the Island but the only way it would ever happen is if you and a whole lot of people get together and lobby a SOLUTION. An alternative to what is being proposed. Maybe let every sportsmen apply for the normal hunts in January and while they are applying letting every person buy a raffle ticket for a Mule Deer Hunt on Antelope Island. Money raised would go to what ever you guys think it needs to go to. If you don't want money in SFW's hands then Stop it and stop freaking complaining on a dang forum about it!!!!!!!!!

As for me I don't see how anything can get done without a crap load of money and our mule deer herds and OIL animals and the elk and anything else can really survive the political agenda of many different people without a group that has more money than they do. So if a mule deer tag and sheep tag could raise 500K so that a sportsmen's voice can be heard then why is that a bad thing? Because you like to drive out and look at big deer? I personally have never been on the Island and have no plans to do so really so I think you are in the minority in all your views. Not saying that isn't fun to take your family out there and enjoy that experience but there are Thousands of hunters in Utah and you and others on this site that complain are a small group out of us all and until you do something about it, it will fall on deaf ears.

CH
 
+1 to isayNUNYA
I heard about this forum, complaining about "the guy" or the "org" and had to read it for myself. Holy cow, pop your heads out!

A couple of you guys are "planted" on this forum by animal rights groups! Right?

When I read how divided we are it makes me weak in the knees! Pull together, make some phone calls to the power brokers, get you voice heard, but quit whining!
Work on understanding what the "org" has done for ALL wild animals and ALL people who hunt them OR get involved and come up with a BETTER way!

peta folks (the poor misguided souls that they are), would get a kick out of some of you.

OK, now for the solution: GET INVOLVED SO YOU WILL FEEL LIKE YOU ARE PART OF THE SOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!! We all feel better when we actually DO SOMETHING.

The more we sit on our azzes and take cheap shots at people, who really do have their hearts in the right place, the more it make us all look like a bunch of FOOLS!

If you want something different, quit bitching and go to work for wildlife and the people who hunt them!!!!!!!

With love and respect for ALL views (some of us simlpy have better views). Feel free to start the personal attacks now.
love,
ZEKE

btw: Shame on you founder. Your site is based on trophy animals that are hunted and harvested. You should try to figure out if this site is part of the problem or part of the solution.
 
Superslam. You are right. You don't know me. And I haven't amassed hundreds of thousands of dollars helping others get their hunting opportunities. But he hasn't given me a single opportunity to hunt. What he has done is give guys like Denny A. opportunities to kill 390-500 inch bulls every single year for 5-6 in a row while there are 20,000 guy in the draw that will never draw, and those others that do,, have to wait 5 years to try again. I aint knocking rich guys like Denny, he nice and generous. what I will knock is the special treatment they get with tags that we can't.

And ya, I know all about Don taking risks that paid off. I tried to work with Don on opportunities to provide others with hunting opportunities, and I got nowhere. Then I got to see my ideas taken and given to provide other rich guys with yet another hunting opportunity. You are right. It takes politics and monedy, and I'm not a bullshitter and I aint rich. So I just have to bust my but for what I can get.

Coward? You call me a coward. You try rolling a mile in my shoes. Just because I haven't amassed a fortune fighting anti's and creating hunting opportunities, doesn't make me or any other guy on this form giving their opinion a coward.

My post was about Don complaining and criticizing others and then doing the exact same thing.

As for being a minority,you are wrong. Most hunters here in Utah are against the island hunt, or at least the auctioning of the tags.

Yelum
 
I think buying a raffle ticket while applying for your regular tags is a good solution that could raise just as much money. It would be similar to the super tag process in Montana.

I'm all for the raffles. My odds as a non-resident are slim to none to ever get to hunt Utah. The raffles at least give me a few extra chances.
 
I'm opposed to hunting on the island. I think there is a need to leave some small areas like Antelope Island unmolested. I believe I should have a place to take my kids and look at free ranging animals without a circus of "guides", "outfitters" and "opportunists" mauling over the area.

Keep pushing people setting on the fence and they might very well be P.E.T.A. members. Does SFW need the competition from a well organized and well financed group?

On another note; I was at the hunting expo in Salt Lake and while there took notice of the carousel of three monster bulls turning in the spot light. Enough already...

Bang away!
 
The gloves are off, we're ready for a real fight now.

Wait a minute...... before our egos got in the way, what were we talking about?

Wolves? Deer? Don? Sheep? Islands? Who screwed who? Auctions? Money? Politics? Oh my, what WILL we do?

What does everyone want? Well..... someone should give it to you then!!!!!!!! BUT, when the "org" people and "money" boys quit giving, who will give a sheite because there will be nothing anyone wants?

The fact is: IT TAKES MONEY TO HAVE WORLD CLASS ANIMALS FOR EVERYBODY! Period, just ask the Utah Division of Wildlife. They KNOW it take more money than a $10.00 deer tag!

Crank'er up boys!

Love
Zeke
 
+20 Yelum.
I love how everyone has this grand old solution of getting involved with our local political leaders and those pure hearted brave souls from SFW who are trying to make a difference to make the changes that ?we? want here in Utah. That sounds great but unless someone comes to them with an idea that will either make them look like a political hero or line their pockets they don't want to hear it. Don?t get me wrong I strongly believe in being a factor in making changes and getting involved but Like Yelum I have been brushed off regularly by SFW and the state of Utah when trying to help in any other way than giving them some green. The bottom line is that money talks and unless you have an agenda that will scratch someone else?s back then you might as well go bite the wall. I do applaud those in such organizations that are in it for the right reasons but if I am on a plane with a pilot that doesn't know what the heck he is doing then I am very nervous regardless of his desires to safely land that plane. As far as hunting in Utah goes? I am NERVOUS for what the future holds. What is the solution? I don't know because it seams that as a whole the population is becoming exponentially ignorant to reality and if you don't believe me on this just take a quick jaunt on I-15 and see how close you come to death. I do know however, that if people don't voice their opinions on such places like MM then the crossover from average Joe hunts to the high dollar mockery that we are seeing will happen much sooner. It sickens me but it is the truth.

SHAME ON FOUNDER??? Are you out of your damned mind man? That is laughable! I once had a 75 year old history professor that spent his career specializing in U.S. law. He once told the class that it was our PATRIOTIC DUTY as American citizens to go to court and fight every ticket we ever received even if we plead guilty to the offense. His point was that in a system of democracy, organizations with power such as the government and in this case SFW MUST be continually questioned because corruption is the twin sister to power. You tell me...does the SFW and Utah State Legislature have power in the future of big game? I personally feel such organizations need to be under the microscope REGAURDLESS of their intentions. Shame on founder?? What a joke. It is that sense of self righteous entitlement to political correctness that is pushing this country into peril!

About the money? I would be very interested to see where all this money is going and to see what percentage of it is actually making a difference. I'm not buying the fact that if we cry money this and money that then everyone will believe that we have to keep donating to these orgs. Sure it takes money but how much??? I feel that if organized with a sense of legitimacy the state has the ability to manage our wildlife properly with money to spare.
 
Ten years ago, the DNR Director Kathleen Clark came to me and said, "we are loosing $500,000 to $650,000 dollars in tax payer money, we can't afford to keep doing that." then asked, "Don, you are very creative and good at raising money, can you help us with that ?"

So, i recommended BACK THEN that as sheep herds grew, and deer herds maintained, they could have TWO TAGS of EACH SPECIES and raise over $400,000 a year, each and every year.

I recommended to have ONE tag of each Speicies for Auction, and ONE TAG of EACH SPECIES for DRAW. One application per person.

Let the money guys get one, let the average income guys get one.

The Parks Board - rejected the idea.

A few years ago, i was asked to renew the proposal, and the commitee told me i didn't know what i was talking about and that a deer tag would only sell for $5,000, etc.

They were such small minded socialist, i quite going to teh committee, and further more said, i would tell my friends not to support an auction, keep there money to help us fix the public lands.

For the really un-informed socialistas, AMERICA IS BROKE, WE BORROWED $1.4 TRILLION this year. Foreign countries will soon own us and our economy will be bust, if this continues.

The Utah Legislature has some GUTS and BALLS. They live with a balanced budget - EACH YEAR.

Today, they are trying to find a WAY to cut $800 MILLION MORE from state budgets.

Mike Noel watched us sell a deer tag for $265,000 and a bighorn tag for $120,000, and watched 8,000 guys get off the couch and come and apply for some tags.

So, being a responsible legislative official, tyring to balance a BUDGET, he and teh COMMITTEE - Majority VOTE approved to have a hunt.

I have not said ONE WORD about the issue, have not commented on it, not proposed it, don't give a damn about it.

So, YELLUM, apologies are in order.
 
Yelum - Have you applied in any other state for a VERY coveted tag? These Elk tags have become high demand because of the quality that the State is producing and we see that a lot of people want in on it. They have become as coveted as a sheep tag for rifle hunters. The stiff odds are not the fault of Peay or SFW, remember the DWR makes policy and they decided to build herd through spike hunting, it worked and now we have huge bulls. Has SFW weighed in on decisions? probably. We have a unique State, different than our surrounding States. We don't have 100 hunting units like Co, Wy, MT, Nv, Az and yet we have probably the highest concentration of hunters per capita out of all. The opportunity is going to naturally be limited. But unlike you I have benefited from all the efforts in conservation and sheep transplant. I've drawn two Archery Elk tags and have a OIL Desert Sheep sitting in my office. In fact I'm looking at it right now reminiscing about the experience that I had. Additionally I've been on two more sheep hunts with close friends and a hand full of Elk hunts all great experiences. I anticipate many more opportunities here in Utah. I too am not independently wealthy but still I find opportunity at world class animals. What about all those average income workers that drew Expo tags? Lucky, or fortunate to have opportunity. It sounds like you are bitter because someone might have taken your idea and made it work... Welcome to competition. Sorry you weren't able to get your agenda or idea to work for you. But if you have passion for the idea be glad it is in effect. Don't just want credit for it.

Let me guess you are from one of our smaller towns and have been hunting out your back yard for 30 plus years and haven't been able to draw a tag in those units so you are mad because you fill entitled because you've claimed the Mt yours. When guys that just gave 15k to wildlife come in and blast a huge elk it makes you mad?.....Whatever!
 
Dear bucksmut

Thanks for making my case! So you're saying it was my duty to call "shame on him" since we are all entitled to question authority and voice our opinions! Right?

The only person that thinks I'm "out of my damn mind" is my wife for hunting so much. You should really try it some time.

This is why I love America! This forum IS truly American!

Thanks
Zeke
 
>I do not understand why the
>representative from Kanab introduced this
>bill?



Read Don's reply it's because the guy came to Expo and his eyes were opened up on how much money a tag could raise.
 
It's all about the money I guess. But just because a woman can make more money as a prostitute than she can as a bookeeper, doesn't mean she ought to be a prostitue.

Eel

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
 
Don
I apreciate the response and the info you shared. And I understand the repeated shortfalls that the state experiences with the budget. I also understand that you are THE man that fights for the benefits of hunters before politicians and that leaders in our state go to, to come up with ideas to help the budget. I've never disputed what you have gotten done.

But selling these tags isn't gonna save the DNR's budget woes. The way our economy is going, not sure anything will. We had the conservation tags, and that didn't balance the budget. Then we added the 200 expo tags and that didn't balance the budget. Now the island tags, and they won't solved it either. But it will put a trophy on the wall orf a wealthy client, and if they have to let a regular Joe hunt to make it happen, then thats ok. And then, if we have a coyote derby on the island, The deer herds will increase and then you can ask for a couple more deer/sheep tags. Thats the public outcry. When is enough enough.

As for the apology. I will aoplogize when you say you are not pushing for the island hunt. The sheep were put there for a nursery herd. But now you want more. And its not about the sheep. Its cause there are big deer on the island, and somebody is gonna make good money if they can be hunted.

Superslam, I'm happy for your success in the field, and honestly hope it continues. Yes, my family has drawn more out of state tags than UT tags. Thats not my point. No, I'm from a big city on the wasatch front, and don't have a mountain I call my own. I could care less if I ever kill another animal, thats not how I measure total success.

I'm not mad cause somebody made my idea work. You didn't read my post. My I dea was to give less fortunate people and opportunity to hunt, but those with power decided to use those opportunites to sell more tags to the rich guys instead. I never looked for or wanted credit, just want to see a happy hunter get a chance.

I don't care if the wealthy guy gets to but a tag. They worked their arse off to earn the cash, they can spend it any way they choose. But my personal feelings are, if I'm allowed to have those without being called a coward, is that they should have to wait the 2 or 5 years between tags, just like every one else.

Yelum
 
Don, thanks for replying. I have a question to you if you see this. I know you said you don't give a damn about this issue, but please think about it for a minute and give me your honest opinion if you would please.

Is this selling of a hunting opportunity to fund a state agency a smart thing for sportsmen to support?
If sportsmen accept it now, do we need to worry about the state wanting to sale more tags down the road to pay for other things like teacher raises, school supplies, highway's, etc.?
And, in the many years that someone has been trying to make this Antelope Island thing fly, has it ever been considered to just offer a couple DRAW ONLY deer and/or sheep tags, raise $15k - $20k for each, and leave it at that?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Yelum,
You said:

"As for the apology. I will aoplogize when you say you are not pushing for the island hunt. The sheep were put there for a nursery herd. But now you want more. And its not about the sheep. Its cause there are big deer on the island, and somebody is gonna make good money if they can be hunted."

Don said:
"I have not said ONE WORD about the issue, have not commented on it, not proposed it, dont give a damn about it."

It seems to me that Don already said he is not pushing for the island hunt.

Yelum, You obviously are passionate about about this issue, and I respect that you are willing to stand up and voice your opinion, and I agree with some of the things you have said,
but it appears that Don may be getting a bad rap on this issue...

------------------------------------------------------
"Yeah, I'll shoot him"
 
Brian

here is what i know. America is headed to financial ruin, we have GOT TO START SOMEWHERE.

India, China and Russia will pass us one day soon, and their histories indicate one, or more of them will then militarily dominate US. If you don't think so, just go read a few history books

I told Senator Hatch the other day, just for STARTERS - here is a $40 million solution to start the $1.4 Trillion budget trim. Change the law back so we can sell horse meat to the French, stop paying $40 MILLION in TAx payer money to feed captured Mustangs that nobody wants and actually kill them - the extras and sell them.

$40 million here, $100 million there, $500,00 here, it is real money. It all adds up. America is going bankrupt.

Utah, our legislature is NOT GOING TO BORROW $800 Million. they are CUTTING PROGRAMS, and asking teh Government AGENCIES to find efficiencies and new money.

So, one place they decided, and it might JUST TRIGGER AN AVALANCHE is to have a few hunts on AI. AFter all, tax payers bought it, what is wrong with some money back and some opportunity back ?

i enjoy filming MONSTER BUCKS on AI, and if i thought killing 2 deer would ruin the island, i would be opposed. But, 2 bucsk a year won't have any impact.

and as has been pointed OUT, kill a bunch of coyotes there could be a lot more deer - hundreds of them and you could probably have 10 tags a year and still have MONSTER bucks.

But, hey, the coyotes need to eat to if you listen to the Socialista tree huggers on the Parks Board who have never had a real job, and in fact have lived on the Government dole thier whole lives. Pontificating while doing nothing but taking a big FAT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT paycheck and delivering nothing but theory !

America - we are do for a HUGE RUDE AWAKENING. The TERMINATOR even told teh CA legislature, hey we are going to send teh illegals back to Mexico, or build Mexico a prison and send them home. Some very, very tough decision are going to have to be made, our we are no longer the country we once were.

Not my words, it was the words of Allan Greenspan and Hank Poulson, two of the brightest men in America.

so, BRIAN, we have got to start somewhere, and killing the hell out of the wolves and geting our herds back in ID, MT and WY is next. Wolves have cost those economies tens of millions in lost income and jobs, and the Socialistas in teh GAme and Fish agencies think sportsmen will keep paying more for less, to give them a job.

NOPE, not any more.


The chickens are coming home to roost, and the crap is going to hit everywhere. My opinion, you asked for it, you got it.
 
Zeke your comment really put that into perspective as I have heard this a few times myself

"The only person that thinks I'm "out of my damn mind" is my wife for hunting so much. You should really try it some time"

Being on the other end of that comment every fall and I know how ya feel-Kinda dramatic I know haha.

I am just grateful for a place like this for people to voice their opinions on important matters like this AI debate and I think the opposite of shame should be directed at founder for providing somewhere to discuss it.

I was on the fence about putting DRAW hunts on AI until I read Mr. Peay's comments about that matter. Spoken like a true politician using the fear tactic. We could stack the national debt with $100 bills to the moon and back twice with the amount we as a nation are in the hole. We have been in the red for years as well. I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to cut it back but that my friend is a ridiculous argument. According to your opinion Mr. Peay America is "In financial ruin!!!", granted we are still in the 3 quarter recession but America is not nor soon will be in "financial ruin...

I suppose if it was that bad we wouldn't have other countries PAYING US to borrow money FROM THEM. Hows that for a concept.. "Please Mr. Brown, Please let us give you a loan for 1 trillion dollars and we will pay you 1% interest if you would be so kind". huh? Okay. That would be nice on a home loan but look it up that's exactly what is happening in the money market even in our current financial debockle. Historically that is how sound of a return one can expect from investing in America.
So the argument is essentially help pay back the national debt through less state funding...Okay as hunters lets shoot ourselves in the foot publicly by taking the Utah mecca of spandex and granola that congregates daily on the island and give them some more ammunition so we can help repay the national debt. hahaha That sounds live even more of an "AVALANCHE" for sportsmen than a few CONCERNED sportsmen criticizing a BAD IDEA. I don't really have an issue with it on paper as it does sound like a logical plan but the REAL issue is you give the government an inch and they will ABSOLUTELY take a mile with this AI thing and in MY OPINION it is a very slippery slop. Like previously mentioned where do we draw the line.

If it is all about helping the national debt then WHY SHOULD SPORTSMEN HAVE TO FLIP THE BILL while big brother rapes our natural resources for profit? What next call it manifest destiny? haha I for one would say that if Mr. Hatch is really that concerned about "$500,000 here and $40 million there" that "adds up" then they should start in Washington with their multi-million dollar inauguration/state of the union/a** kissing parties that seem to happen weekly and NOT with Utah Natural resources. If this is really your reasoning Mr. Peay I will fight this tooth and nail as it is an asinine concept. Really not trying to make this an attack on you but just voicing my opinion and respectfully but passionately disagreeing.

Jacen

P.s. In your post you eluded that they voted on this today. Did I miss something there or is that the case. I sure do want some time to write my congressman on this one.
 
That is a vastly different outlook on what Don said than what I have.

I agree with Don that we are nearing financial ruin if we keep the pace we're going. We've doubled the national debt in 10 years. The interest alone on the debt we have is around $200 billion.

You can expect one or both of the following to happen over the next 5 years:

1) Taxes are raised drastically
2) Services are cut drastically. If you can call some of the government spending services.

With that being said the states will see reduced funds coming from the Feds which means they in turn have to cut services or raise taxes. Every state in the country has budget woes and is trying to find money. Something like selling these tags is just one way to "find" money for the game department. If they could auction off food stamps for $265k I'm sure someone in government would be trying to do it.
 
Friends,

i am not suggesting that hunters and a hunt on AI is the ANSWER for our nations debt woes.

But it is just ONE, little, example that is indicative of what is in EVERY FACET of our GOVERNMENT.

A bunch of gutless do gooders, who can't make a "little decision" because it might make some group of people mad, or someone might get a little bigger piece of the pie than someone else. So nothing gets done. and WASTE piles up.

in a word, SOCIALISM fails, EVERY TIME. CAPITALISM works.

There needs to be major reform in medicare, medicade, social security benefits, education, law enforcment, prison - here is a specific, spend time helping troubled kids out, but after 3 strikes you are out - like executed. Our Society cannot afford $40,000 a year for criminals to spend the rest of thier lives in prison, with their attorneys being paid to appeal ad nausium.

We can't afford to waiste bizzilions of dollars studing how to study how some spotted frog mates.

We can't afford anymore to have GOVERMENT REGULATORS forcing companies to manufacture off shore because it cost a fortune to manufacture in America, just to push all the Government paperwork around that DOES NOTHING. and then have a million lawyers sue you out of business if a little mistake is made.

Admit the mistake, fix it, move forward.


Government used to be about 5% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), the measure of America's total output.

Today, Government is about 37% GDP. WE can't afford it anyomre and we can't compete with the other countries in the global economy..

The Chinese don't have any of it - the bueracrats and all the paper pushing requirments, and they can outcompete America in teh Global Economy.

France is 85% Nuclear - the tree hugging French. America should have gone Nuclear power 25 years ago, but the "Do gooders" with the same philosophy about life, who are against hunting two animals on AI are the same ones who have sat behind some desk for 30 years pushing papers, stalling industry, stalling conservation, etc.

I won't go on and on and on.

But, if American's don't wake up soon, and take our country back from the Socialistas who think money grows on trees, and think if we are nice to everyone and everthing, we are bankrupt, and there are many foreign nations just waiting to take over America, because it is human nature to "hate" those who are ahed of you.

Hey lets just Execute Shake Mohamid or whatever his name is. NO, lets spend $500 million to $1 BILLION - no lie to try him in New York City. How insane is taht ?

When you are the top dog - be it pro sports, business, or nation, the competitive nature of human nature, and the dark side of jealousy and hatred, are a powerful mixture of why just 60 years ago, there were WW 1, WW II, Korea, Vietnam, and now in a global struggle the ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS, and if you don't think the Russians are sitting over their pissed of because America beat them in teh epic battle of who would emeerge in teh Regan/Gorbechoff era as the worlds super power, go listen to a few of PUtin's speaches lately.

Admittedly, it is a bit of a stretch to have AI deer hunt extend to the global issues, but i have an interesting seat in life and speak with many of our nations leaders. and i deal everyday with the little picture issues that mostly revolved around simple principles of human nature.

i see the same principles - be it in Chemical Engineering, business, human relationshipt, wildlife, RAC and BOARD process.

the Socialist nature taht is laying siege to America has got to be stopped and reformed.

And the super wealthy lucky sperm club guys, who could care less about the REST of US, need to be reigned in.

SFW has built a model, believe it or not, where 80% in the middle have come together and solved very complex problmes, invested hundreds of millions of dollars, made more wildlfie for EVERYONE. We all win, but we don't all win exactly the same. IN a capitlistic society we are not all the same. We all have the same opportunities to work hard, risk and compete.

WE need the rich guys and the working man to work togehter in Wildlife and in America.

If we don't we are done hunting - the anti hunters will have their weapon of choice - unmanged predators - that they have spent hundreds of millions lying to teh American pulibic that they only eat the sick and the weak, and they help the herds"

And if we don't reform goverment and become more efficient in EVERY ASPECT of Goverment, AMERICA will no longer be the greatest nation on earth.

Every great Empire fails - because of these two reasons. The wealthy in an empire get greedy and want to much. The working people get lazy and feel entitled to everything for free.

lots to do today.

nice to see some friendly dbbate.
 
Jeez Don you are better than that.... Really??? The Rush limbaugh Card???

They are coming to take our AK-47's, we are going to have to declare our guns on our taxes, we're going to have death panels

Seriously!!!
 
ICHABOD

Yes, I know he stated that at the bottom, but at the top he said

"So, i recommended BACK THEN that as sheep herds grew, and deer herds maintained, they could have TWO TAGS of EACH SPECIES and raise over $400,000 a year, each and every year."

The last two times this issue came up it was introduced by representatives from St George and Kanab. Two guys who have most likely never been to the island. I'd be willing to bet that someone from SFW put the idea in their head.

Its not like I disagree with everything he does and says. He's repeatedly given us the numbers of increased tags throughout the state that he is mostly responsible for. He's smart, well connected and fearless for hunters rights. He has more knowledge about political issues than I'll ever have. But I feel that hunting on the island is the only hunting issue in this state, that he doesn't have control of, and that worries me. Not that he won't do good with that control, but that is an unknown.

I know there are buffalo hunts on the island. They have to cut the numbers somehow. I know the best way to keep trhe sheep numbers down would be a hunt, after all other sheep units were stocked. But the deer herd is not growing and hasn't grown for decades. There is not a need to hunt them, just a want. Now if you could talk those in power to start illiminating some coyotes and do some major habitat work, that would first build the deer herd up to 3, 4 or 500 deer and then have a hunt fine, but do that first. Those projects would eat up any moneys generated by the auction, and would get the budget woes nowhere.


Yelum
 
Go read what Hanks Poulson and Alan Greenspan said on face the Nation a few Sundays ago. not Rush, two of America's brightest business minds.

AMerica is headed into an irreversable collapse of debt.

OUr debt last year was $1.4 Trillion. that is from teh Congressional Budget office, not Rush.

We have 10% unemployment. Are you delisioinal to think there are not MAJOR problems, with HUGE long term consequences ?
 
Not saying that in any way shape or form.... But all of this has not just happened in the last 13 month's...

I'm as pissed as anybody about what is and has been going on
back in the Washington Zoo for the last several years. Sabre rattling from both parties will result in more of the same with very little getting accomplished as a result. Don you understand exactly the effect Conservative Sabre rattling will have in a state like Utah with this audience.

Noel??? Seriously??? How did the ATV bill he pushed last year end up??
 
Come on, enough talk about all that political crap. None of that really has anything to do with Antelope Island. Simply put, our state governement is trying to sell 2 of my (OUR) hunting opportunites on Antelope Island.

They need to raise $250k. Let everyone in Utah pay the bill. Give sportsmen all 4 tags on Antelope Island and tax ALL Utah citizens 50 cents per year. But please don't start the avalanche of selling OUR hunting opportunities to cover state debts.

It's disappointing Don to hear you explain to us sportsmen that the state stealing our hunting opportunity to sale, so they don't have to increase taxes for everyone, is a good thing. I sure the heck don't feel like they're doing me a favor.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Larry

As I read through your post one thing really jumps out at me. It is really not the Island that has got you pissed off it is feeling slided because you feel SFW did not get the permits pushed through for people with disability's like you wanted.

Many of you in MM land may not know that Yellum (Larry) is confined to a Wheelchair. Larry will be pissed at me for mentioning this. He is one that has never let his disability stop him and does not need or want others pitty or sympathy. I have known Larry for 25 years and have a huge amount of respect for him and what he has been able to accomplish. He is a great man.

Truth be known your request did not get swept underneath the rug. It was met with lots off oppostion from hunters and the DWR. It was the feeling that tags should not be set aside but rather once a tag was obtained that those individuals would be given very liberal extension ie 30 days prior to the season opening or 30 days after the season close's. Several have benifited from this. Has it been abused? yes. But over all it is a good thing.

I would support setting aside permits for people with disability's. May be it is something that needs to be revisited. I would be interested to hear eveyones opionion that has commented on this post.

I do know this since that time SFW has supported and donated several hunts each year to be given to those with handicaps as well as those who have served our country in protecting our freedoms. The ogden chapter alone sponsors two of these hunts a year as well as covering the license cost for several others. Jeff Spencer (Kent Shooters)has been huge in looking out for the needs of children with disability's and we are proud to be a small part of that.

It may not have been what you wanted, but we have not forgotten.

I do believe your anology of Don and the wolf thing are unfair and incorrect. There is a huge difference between the wolf lovers going back on thier word and hunting sheep on the Island. Both you and I know what the Island can and should be. Like I mentioned in another thread let hunters back on the Island and the days of seeing giant bucks & rams will never slip away infact it will only get better!

Troy Justensen
 
Troy
Actually, I'm not even pissed off, just passionate. And as far as feeling slighted with the disabled hunts, the job SFW and Jeff Spencer has done in that regard has been nothing short of AWESOME, as well as the extension on general hunts and LE.

That part of my post was referring to something I tried to work out with a couple outfitter/CWMU operators who took my idea and decided to use those extra tags for sale. After reading my post I put that blame unfairly on Don. Sorry Don. I had too many thought racing through my head.

I know doubt could have used this post with a question to Don, rather than what came across as an attack. Bad choice on my end. But my issue really is with the island and the persistant effort to hunt the deer. The herd isn't hurting but it is stagnet. And hunting them will do nothing to improve the herd.
Its gonna happen and there is nothing I can do to stop it. You better than anyone else I know, can understand the incredible pleasure of seeing huge bucks out there. No other place in Northern Utah is like it. And I haven't seen anything close to the monsters you have. With the low lake levels and deer leaving the island, its getting harder and harder for a guy like me to be able see those big bucks. It aint like the Henries where you can drive the road and see huge bucks all day. It wont ever be like that. As it is now, most the trips out there I can glass for hours and never see a buck. Hunting won't help my efforts.

LARRY

Yelum
 
Don Peay for Senator!

Founder for Director of DWR!

Eel

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-10 AT 07:25PM (MST)[p]I guess it was only a matter of time???

Don, your post #26 in this thread says:
"I have not said ONE WORD about the issue, have not commented on it, not proposed it, don't give a damn about it.
So, YELLUM, apologies are in order.
"

It appears you do "give a damn", as you shared comments with the Ogden Standard Examiner about it. The paper is claiming you and SFW are a sponsor of this. Are they wrong? Or should YELLUM take back his apology.
Click Here for Article in Standard Examiner

Did the SFW board vote to support this hunt as proposed? Do you guys on the board really want MORE auction tags? Did you guys ever discuss supporting a DRAW ONLY hunt, which would benefit the vast majority of members far more than "experimental" auction tags, and maybe public tags in the future?

SFW board members, I'd like to hear your opinions of this Antelope Island auction tag proposal. Please, tell us what you think.

I really don't mean to stir the crap over this, I just think we have enough auction tags and would like to see our conservation groups agree and stop fighting for more. I personally would like to see a hunt on Antelope Island, but not for a couple rich dudes only. Stand up for ALL sportsmen Don Peay and SFW, push for a DRAW ONLY hunt out there!! Maybe with the support of sportsmen, it will happen someday.

Anyone know if MDF or FNAWS even care about this issue? Or maybe not this issue, but where does MDF and FNAWS stand when it comes to adding more auction tags in Utah.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
The text- (link didnt work for me)






Antelope Island hunt argued
By Dan Weist (Standard-Examiner Davis Bureau)

Last Edit: Mar 1 2010 - 10:56pm

SALT LAKE CITY -- A group of Davis County Chamber of Commerce members and others lobbied local lawmakers Monday to halt a plan to extend the availability of limited hunting on Antelope Island.

Wearing reddish-orange vests and stickers inside the Capitol building, the group asked an assembly of Top of Utah legislators to derail a tentative budget line item directing a state agency to set up the hunt of bighorn sheep and deer.

"We must stop this plan," said Barbara Riddle, president of the Davis Area Convention and Visitors Bureau President.

But after several failed attempts over the last decade to allow an extended sportsman's hunt for big game, supporters argue the plan has more traction than ever before.

Among the supporters of the proposal is Michael Styler, executive director of the Utah Department of Natural Resources.

He calls it an "experiment" that would last at least one year.

"All divisions of Natural Resources are working hard to cut costs while maximizing recreation opportunities. I believe this experiment can be successful and provide some unique experiences," Styler wrote in response to a question from the Standard-Examiner.

A limited, controlled hunt of bison on 28,000-acre Antelope Island is already allowed.

Styler notes the deer herd has around 90 mature bucks. Last spring, at least six mature bucks walked off the island during low-water times into the Syracuse area, and at least two were hit by cars.

The DNR director envisions allowing state parks to sell one deer permit and one Bighorn permit somewhat similar to a landowner tag, with the proceeds being reinvested into habitat on the island.

He also envisions putting one deer permit and one Bighorn permit into the public draw a year from now.

Some estimates are the permits would bring in several hundred thousand dollars.

"The proposed hunting flies in the face of the educated, well thought-out management plan of state parks," countered Riddle.

Yet Styler is joined by the sponsor of the proposal, Rep. Michael Noel, R-Kanab, and Don Peay, leader of the group Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife.

"You can have a little hunting and still have watchable wildlife," said Peay, who lives in Bountiful and calls the island a "treasure."

The latest iteration of the hunt has drawn recurring fire for the last year.

In a letter to the DNR last summer, Don Leonard, the president of Friends of Antelope Island, expressed concern about more hunting.

"It is the unanimous opinion of the Friends of Antelope Island Board that hunting in this special and uniquely situated state park would be a mistake and disservice to the citizens of Utah and the visitors from around the world who come to the park," wrote Leonard.

Top of Utah lawmakers who are helping with the final negotiations to assemble the next two-year state budget say the hunting proposal has as much chance as any to be part of the final package, especially if Styler, a member of the governor's cabinet, will not stand in its way.

Lawmakers have less than two weeks to finish the budget.
 
You trust the guy over and over when he says that they don't want any more or any fewer conservation tags...

Was it Albert Einstein that said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? :)
 
WOW...

YELUM
In an earlier post, I said:

Yelum,
You said:
"As for the apology. I will aoplogize when you say you are not pushing for the island hunt. The sheep were put there for a nursery herd. But now you want more. And its not about the sheep. Its cause there are big deer on the island, and somebody is gonna make good money if they can be hunted."

Don said:
"I have not said ONE WORD about the issue, have not commented on it, not proposed it, dont give a damn about it."

It seems to me that Don already said he is not pushing for the island hunt.

Yelum, You obviously are passionate about about this issue, and I respect that you are willing to stand up and voice your opinion, and I agree with some of the things you have said,
but it appears that Don may be getting a bad rap on this issue...

YELUM
It appears that I may have been defending the wrong guy.
Looks like I owe YOU an apology.
ICHABOD
------------------------------------------------------
"Yeah, I'll shoot him"
 
Yet, folks will STILL go to the summit to hear Don tell the supposed truth. Wake up people, when you see his lips move, you know he is spinning a web of nonsense!
 
It's possible that the newspaper has their facts wrong. Maybe Don and SFW are NOT sponsoring this thing. Don, where are you? Let's hear a reply please. Are you and SFW pushing this or not. Is the newspaper wrong?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
>Can you say "Talking out of
>both sides of your mouth?"
>

You mean talking out of both sides of your a$$!!
 
So is this one just going to die on the vine after the revelation that Don lied?

Or was it just a mis-quoting reporter taking him out of context? What's the scoop, Don?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-10 AT 09:43PM (MST)[p]I emailed this thread to him asking him to reply. He emailed me back saying that he DID NOT tell the reporter that he or SFW supported the Antelope Island hunt. He said he told them that he nor SFW had any position on the issue (the current proposal). He said he did make the statment, "you can have
limited hunting and still have recreational viewing".

I think Don is probably tired of this stuff on the site and understands that regardless what he says, he probably won't change the way people are currently feeling about him or SFW.

Don has stated a few times that he nor SFW (all kind of the same), have taken NO position on this issue. I would like to see them take a position and prove to the "average" guy that we're important to them. The average might not be buying the auction tags, but we are the ones who attend banquets, attend the WHCE, and who, for the most part, volunteer time to make the SFW banquets happen.
Don (SFW) go to bat for the average guy and push for DRAW ONLY tags on Antelope Island. Prove to us that you really do agree that we have enough auction tags in this state already. I honestly believe Don can steer this issue. In the end, we might never see hunting on Antelope Island, but it sure would be nice to feel like they're looking out for the average guy and not just the rich.

Ask your members Don (SFW), I'm guessing that 90%+ would want you to push for 4 DRAW ONLY tags, rather than 2 auction tags this year, and maybe a couple public tags in the future.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 

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