Does Utah need a new conservation group?

[fishon]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-06-10 AT 08:26PM (MST)[p]Just to clarify upfront why I am posting this.

I have been sent over 200 emails from people that live in this state mostly, that are wanting a new conservation group that is proactive yet transparent. A group they can trust and believe in. I also have 20 or so inbox messages on MM from members about the same thing. These have all come in the last 4 months or so.

For those of you that are not familar with why I would be getting these emails I will offer a short history.

I did the vast majority of the fundraising for SFW for nearly 5 years and then I was the General manager of the Mule Deer foundation for nearly 5 years.

I along with Don Peay and Ray Lee created the Western Hunting Conservation Expo and went out and got the 200 hundred tags for the Hunt Expo Drawing.

That is the reason for this post.

No I am not lobbying for a group of mine I am simply asking the question.

Who would support a group that would belong to the people and be transparent from the get go?

This is not a post to bash me or Don or the Expo or anyone else. This is just a post to see if the emails I am receiving are the minority or majority of hunters interested in Utah wildlife.


Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com



Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com

 

[hornkiller]

"Does Utah need a new conservation group?"
Did you really even have to ask. I think it is very clear
SFW is not the anser!

 

[swbuckmaster]

how are you going to get the division off the money tit of SFW.

Yes Utah needs a hunting group that isnt about the tag grab.


There are no big bucks in Utah! LOL

 

[PleaseDear]

I am down to basically RMEF and WSF as my groups of support/membership.

I am no longer with GSC nor SFW as they pretty much are the same type of a 'Club' than what I am interested in.

Sure Tony--what ya thinking?

Robb

 

[shootinfool]

I will always support a group that is honest and up front and transparent over other groups that are not willing to be that type of group. Lets see what you got!

 

[hossblur]

I'm in Tony, transparency is the KEY. Even if it means posting how much you have to grease a politician with to get a meeting. All of us could handle the truth about what it costs to get our "public sevants" attention. Also, i think you have to narrow the focus. I fish, but fishing issues and hunting issues are in different arenas, and although some issues intertwine(access), trying to build up both areas spreds a group a little thin. Also, and I know of your history and believe me I am not hating, but the leadership needs to be new blood. It can't be all guys that were in other groups, recycled into a new group. Yeah, experience with fund raising or lobbying is important, but a new group would need to comprised mostly of guys/girls(we need a female perspective) to bring new angles and thoughts to what we have in Utah.

 

[2lumpy]

Tony,
We can't have too many organizations helping wildlife and the outdoor lifestyle so on the surface it sounds like a good deal however it can, in my opinion, do more harm than good, if in fact helping wildlife is the primary objective.

I could be reading this wrong but I seems many of us want to help wildlife and improve, enhance and preserve our lifestyle but as groups we want to "preserve it" very differently.

For example: A lot of us want "family hunts" of the type that allow 20-30 people to go down to the grocery store and buy a deer tag the night before the hunt then head up on the mountain for two weeks. Get the group together and have all the kids and younger hunters push the canyons or the sage flats to the older guys. Everyone shots any buck. They think any less is wrong, anti-hunting and by darn, borders on being anti-American. This group want leadership and a voice at the table and because that is how it used to be, they are absolutely convinced that is how it has to be without regard for other issues or long term consequences.

There is another group of folks that believe preserving our life style has to be done by moving more hunters to archery hunting because of the reduced harvest ratio, the intimacy with the game, the stealth and skill associated with the "archery lifestyle". This group believes they do no harm with extended seasons, unlimited access to all public lands. They believe the answers to "preserve it" has to be increased archery opportunity. They think any less is wrong, anti-hunting and by darn, borders on being anti-American. This group want leadership and a voice at the table and because that is how it used to be, they are absolutely convinced that is how it has to be without regard for other issues or long term consequences.

There is another group that believe all the habitat is gone and the only way we'll "preserve it" is focusing all our resources on habitat. They think any less is wrong, anti-hunting and by darn, borders on being anti-American. This group want leadership and a voice at the table and because that is how it used to be, they are absolutely convinced that is how it has to be without regard for other issues or long term consequences.

Another group believe the outdoor lifestyle is livestock. They believe they have used the land for grazing since our great grandparents killed almost all wildlife 150 years ago that they should be allowed to have every blade of grass and forb the mountain can produce. They think any less is wrong, anti-hunting and by darn, borders on being anti-American. This group want leadership and a voice at the table and because that is how it used to be, they are absolutely convinced that is how it has to be without regard for other issues or long term consequences.

Other outdoor group thinks that just sealing the outdoors to any access is the outdoor lifestyle (try and figure that one). This group could careless about natural life cycles of predator and prey and how modern civilization has disrupted and will forever require that humans manage wildlife. They think any less is wrong, anti-hunting and by darn, borders on being anti-American. This group want leadership and a voice at the table and because that is how it used to be, they are absolutely convinced that is how it has to be without regard for other issues or long term consequences.

Other gruops believes it has to be done by closing vehicle access, or wilderness variations, or antlerless hunts, or unit management or antler restriction. or,,,,or,,,,,or.

Here's my point and as I've said I may be wrong, this inquiry about starting another organization is because various individuals from all these other groups don't see the lifestyle they believe is the right one getting preserved so they want a different leader to create a new "power" that will get more of what THEY want.

Creating a new SFW to do battle with the existing SFW will be counter productive. This demand for transparency is a thinly disguised front for the folks that disagree with the current SFW's position on wildlife issues. Should a new group ever be established and should it every gain the power and influence of the current SFW it will immediately be accused of the same or some similar kinds of infractions. It will come out of this new group's inability to satisfy the demands of the many and diverse "preserve it my way" groups.

What group am I in you might ask. I'm in the smallest and most lonesome group, or so it seems. I'm in the "save mule deer group". I don't really care much about the cats, the elk, the sheep, the turkeys, the landowners, the SFW or the DWR. I have been in a panic over mule deer since 1984 when south central Utah hit "on average" three buck per hundred doe. I was 35 years old in 1984, I'm 63 today. I used thousands of hours (not nearly so many as some of course) writing letters, making phone calls, organizing groups and meetings, getting appointed to organization boards, meeting with Governors, legislators, senators, Doug Millers, Don Peays, Tony Abbotts, DWR directors, and good guys and jerks. To what end? Mule deer are worse off by far than when I started in 1984. Made a ton of enemies and garnered very few friends. See.........when there's a fist fight, folks want a son of a ##### on their side, then the fights over they really don't want much to do with you.

So why haven't mule deer recovered?

Very simple, "TOO MANY GROUPS THAT WANT WHAT THEY WANT AND CANNOT AND WILL NO SET ASIDE THEIR "PRESERVE IT MY WAY DEMANDS" FOR UTAH'S MULE DEER.

So what shall we do?

If your objective in forming a new group is "to preserve it your way" I hope you fail. If your objective is to form a new group so you can do more in partnership with MDF, RMEF, SFW, etc. God's speed.

SFW, as good or bad as they may be, is currently the only group in position to influence wildlife decisions from the sportsmen's over all perspective. Do not undermine them, PUSH THEM to be legal, push them to stay legal, push them to fight for healthy, robust herds, push for balanced harvests that causes healthy robust herds, push them to resist groups that are narrow-minded or more concerned for "day's afield" than they are for our herd's health. Push them for sportsmen's equity, (archers, riflemen, and muzzleloaders can all have a piece of the pie but none of them can have all they'd take if left to there own choosing. They'll each take it all if they are allowed to, and many are so focused on opportunity they can't see the long term consequence of their daily decisions.) Get over the SFW personalities, their personal interests, their hunting or investment choices, how much they earn or what they do with their income. When it come right down to it I'll wager most us would not like folks like Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Teddy Roosevelt. Buffalo Bill or whomever if we knew them personally but we sure as heck like what they did or tried to do from the "big picture" prospective. Not that I ever want the opportunity but folks that have sat down and talked face to face with Obama like him but they hate what he does. We do not have to like SFW so long as they are doing what can and needs to be done for the best interest of the "outdoor lifestyle".

Now don't jump me about what has been done by SFW for mule deer because I know they have failed "my group" in that regard, however I firmly believe they and they alone are the only organization that can or will do anything for the over all return of health mule deer herds.

DC

 

[NVBighorn]

Goddamm 2lumpy, well said! That may be the most well thought out post ever on this subject regardless of who agrees or doesn't.

Fix the wagon you're riding in.

 

[fishon]

Deloss

Great post. I appreciate the time and thought put into it.

Just so you know I HAVE NO INTENTION OF STARTING OR RUNNING A GROUP. That was in another life of mine. One I was glad I did and one that I believe I helped make things better.

Your points are all really good and most I agree with.

Where we differ is I saw things from a totally different perspective then you or most others, I saw it from the inside.

I begged to work with SFW because I believed they were right on and headed in a direction I could give 110% to. Back when I started with them there was little to no confrontations or problems between them and sportsmen.

Sportsmen believed SFW was the answer and so did I and I gave it my life for nearly 5 years. People like you Deloss made my job easier and rewarding and we were going in a direction that was much more positive then negative.

Then along the way things started to change, ego's started to inflate, salaries started to inflate, it turned into "look what I have done for you" instead of what else can we do to make it better for all.People started question money and motives and the more they were questioned the more secret they would become.

It got to a point where in my opinion the good being done no longer outweighed the bad.

That is not an opinion I shared alone then and it certainly is not an opinion I have alone now.

I went to MDF and did my thing there as well and believed we did alot of good. The Hunt Expo was created and I thought things started to get right again.

Then the greed and the power and the "look at what I have done" crept back in.

I have been contacted a lot recently because people want to feel apart of something and they want to be heard and responded to. They want a group that is 100% transparent and one that does not give them a dog and pony show'

Deloss there is not a group out there that offers that and lives up to it. That is the whole point to my post.

My opinion is mine just like yours is yours. I have never had more people asking what can be done for Utahs deer heards then I have had in the last 4+ months.

People are not happy with the balance of power because there is no balance. This state for wildlife has turned into exactly what this state does not believe in which is a DICTATORSHIP.

The groups out their want our money and efforts and goods but they want us to stand by blindly and trust them because they say they have our best interest.

Well Deloss that could not be further from the truth. The only group of hunters the most powerful group in this state represents is themselves.

They are not for you or me or the VAST majority of the hunters. They are for Big Dollars, Big Tags, Big Shows and Big Egos.

This post was not brought up to start bashing it was brought up to see how many out there really want a group that is as unbiased as possible.

I have known you Deloss for almost 15 years. I know your passion for Mule deer is 2nd to none. I share the same passion and desire that you have.

But where we differ is the group you claim to be leading the charge for us does not even closly represent me, my thoughts or the thoughts of the overwhelmingly opinions of those I associate with and hear from.

There is good people that want to hunt and not have our wildlife WHORED out. I was part of the problem Deloss. I helped create the system we now are dictated by. It was not that way 15 years ago but it has turned into that and people are not impressed.

There are 100,000 licensed deer hunters in this state yet the group you mention has about 5,000 members in this state. That is only 5% of the deer hunters. I don't know about you but I have no interest in 5% telling the 95% to "trust us" and "look what we have done for you" and "you should be grateful for us or you would have nothing".

Deloss those are words of dictators, those are words of BIg EGOS, those are words of people that don't care about us, they care about their agenda.

So you are right that many people have different opinons and thoughts of how this state should manage its wildlife. You are also right that everyone will not always agree.

But sit back and look at one thing..... If the state of Utah did not give these conservation groups 500-700 tags a year to auction and giveaway, how much would these groups be able to claim they did for wildlife?

If these groups are so great and do so much then why do they need all of these public tags and especially why are they not held accountable for the $1,000,000 a year they raise off of the expo tags?

Transparency is what sportsman want and it is what they deserve, you deserve Deloss, you have been there since day one.

All that needs to be done is these groups be transparent with the tags they were given from the public and things would simmer down.

The expo tags and revenue is what people want to know about and they are getting NOTHING but empty promises.

Deloss the answer is not what we have, and I am not sure I know what the answer is. But I know it is far different then the current groups out there now.

I would gladly help a new group with them getting going, but I do not want to be the one in charge at this time.




Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com

 

[Deerlove]

Good post guys you have brought up some good comments and challenges. The bad news is the few good guys I know have skeletons in the closets. It obviously wont be easy because the existing groups are going to see you as threat and try and squash it. Sad be true.

 

[oakbrush]

Tony, I'll tell ya what. If you can form a group that stays out of the politcal ring and just raises money and spends that money strictly on wildlife projects you would have my support. I think that money can be raised without special tags being involved. I know that alot of people would donate if they knew Thier money was specifically designated for a certain wildlife project that is needed.

I know that by dangling a carrot(tags) you get more people to give money, but alot of people are kind of sick of the whole process.

Just find a project that is needed, find out how much money it is going to cost and get people to donate until that project is paid for and finished, then move on to the next one.

Stay away from the wildlife board, capital hill, sportsman expo, and all that politcal crap.

Get outfitters to donate hunts, retailers donate guns, gear etc. to help with drawings to generate more donations.

You don't need a magazine, high paid lobbyists, we have enough of that.

oakbrush

 

[c3]

Nope!!! We already have a group for every cause and constituency on the face of the planet.

We need honor and integrity in the groups that we already have. We need honesty and transperency from the Governor down to the individual in the field.

While the cause may be noble, the path to it need not be clouded by the greed and desire of man.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[woodruffhunter]

Tony:

You said at the start of this thread:

"This is not a post to bash me or Don or the Expo or anyone else"

Have you read post 8 lol....

Now, to answer your question:

No, I don't think we need anymore orgs. However, I think the current org's need to make some changes.

 

[wymoose]

I'm not sure another group will provide the answer. I was surprised this year at the expo over the competition, and that certain groups backed out. It would seem to me if wildlife conservation was the priority of these groups, they would happily work together, not run each other out of town.

I think Pete has the right idea.

 

[elknr]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-07-10 AT 11:00PM (MST)[p]Hey DC.Very well said,I just wish we had alot more like you runnin each group.You totally nailed the nail on the head.later kelly

 

[isayNUNYA]

Tony Writes,

>There are 100,000 licensed deer hunters
>in this state yet the
>group you mention has about
>5,000 members in this state.
>That is only 5% of
>the deer hunters.


Well Tony, this would be the problem with any new group that was formed. 5% of the people would join and the other 95% would sit and ##### about how nothing was being done.

 

[fishon]

I need to apologize for the remarks that were negative towards SFW. My intent was to explain to deloss our different perspective on why I started this post.

I will choose my words more wisely in the future as to keep my word on the intent of a subject.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com

 

[hornkiller]

Please any of you have been reading this post or the other post "contact DWR no more SFW tags" please just read
these statments being posted.

this by 2lumpy

"I have been in a panic over mule deer since 1984 when south central Utah hit "on average" three buck per hundred doe. I was 35 years old in 1984, I'm 63 today. I used thousands of hours (not nearly so many as some of course) writing letters, making phone calls, organizing groups and meetings, getting appointed to organization boards, meeting with Governors, legislators, senators, Doug Millers, Don Peays, Tony Abbotts, DWR directors, and good guys and jerks. To what end? Mule deer are worse off by far than when I started in 1984."

"Now don't jump me about what has been done by SFW for mule deer because I know they have failed "my group"


and this by awholelattabull

"I have to wonder where the funding for all the projects will come from if we get rid of the conservation tags. Will hunters be willing to pay triple to sometimes quadruple the price for a Central Region deer tag? I highly doubt it. You want to hear some complaining, try to match the funds that those conservation tags generate with license price increases."

PLEASE TELL US WHAT PROJECTS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?

"Have I guided conservation tag bidders? A couple of them."
"I have always said that I think we have gone way overboard with the number of tags but you will not find an organization out there that has done more in the state I live in, pay taxes in, and hunt in, than SFW. Not RMEF. Not NWTF (although they have done a ton). Not SCI."I will say this, aside from the "expo tags", when another group surfaces that puts as much money and time in as SFW in Utah I will get behind them. But for now, they are really the only ones really doing anything.

REALLY WHAT ARE THEY DOING SO SPECTACULARE? WITH THE MONEY AND ANIMALS? I MEAN REALLY DON'T GET MAD JUST LET US KNOW.

"I have been a yearly supporter and donater to the NWTF for over 15 years now. Great organization and run well mainly by volunteers."
"They have been auctioning off turkey tags for years now and nobody says anything about that. Even when it took 6 years to draw a turkey tag. You didn't hear anybody whining about that. I was at banquets when people paid in excess of $1500 for a turkey tag."

YA WE HAD TO WAIT THAT LONG FOR A TAG BUT LOOK WHAT IT GOT US A VERY HEALTHY POPULATION OF THEM AND ANYONE CAN GO BUY A TAG OVER THE COUNTER! BUT SFW ARE THE ONLY ONES DIONG ANYTHING RIGHT.


THEN SOMEONE SAID

" Last I checked SFW has made little difference in either the game population or quality in the state of Utah in their illustrious history."

AND I TOTALLY AGREE

THEN HOLEBULL SAYS

"Even those that hate SFW know that's not the case. This is not about what they have done. It's never been about what they have done. The issue that hossblur brings out is the things that they haven't done.

MY ISSUE IS WHAT EXACLTY ARE THEY DOING AT THIS PIONT IN TIME THEY CANT EVEN LET THERE SUPPORTERS KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DIONG WITH THE MONEY OR THERE SO CALLED GREAT PROGRAMS AM I RIGHT OR JUST BLIND

HOLEBULL SAYS
"I choose to help save the elk and deer populations that live in my backyard year around."

HOW ARE YOU DOING THAT HOLBULL BY SUPPORTING SFW?
then turn around and say somthing like this

"Why do you think I apply in Colorado and Wyoming every year. NO DEER HERE! By the way, I don't have to "take a drive up the canyon" or "set at a game checking station" to know there aren't any deer. I actually get out of the truck and hike."

WELL HOLE BULL I MIGHT NOT HAVE GOT THE HOLE SPELLING OR PROPER TYPING DOWN BUT I DEFINATLY KNOW HOW TO READ AND THE MORE I READ FROM YOU IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A TRUE SFW SUPPORTER! I HAVE NEVER LIKED THEM NO I WILL NEVER BE A MEMBER YES I SPEND MORE THAN 180 DAYS IN THE MTS. AND HAVE YET TO SEE A PROJECT DONE BY SFW THAT BENIFITED THE LOCAL WILDLIFE I HUNT THAT IS 1OO SQAURE MILES OF SOUTHERN UT COUNTY EVEN WITH ALL THE MONEY THEY HAVE GOT FROM THERE ORGINIZATION AND ALL THE OTHER STUFF THEY HAVE THERE HANDS IN REALLY WHAT HAVE THEY DONE IN THE YEARS THEY HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED REALLY CAN ANYONE EVEN GIVE A ESTIMATED DOLLER AMOUNT THAT THEY HAVE HAD IN THERE ILLUSTRIOUS PROGRAM AND THEN LOOK AT THE THINGS THEY HAVE DONE FOR US OR THE WILDLIFE AND THEN FEED INTO THERE SO CALLED PROJECTS AND PLANNING ON THE BOARD SET FOR THE FUTARE OR AT THIS VERY MOMENT IN TIME AND SAY THESE GUYS ARE GREAT SO MUCH BETTER AFTER THEY CAME AROUND REALLY IF YOU ARE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE IMO AND ITS ONLY AN OPINION you have your haed up your a s s LOOKING AT ARE STATE OF HUNTING FROM THE LEVAL OF A GUY THAT DOESNT GO BUY A LAND OWNER TAG OR A GUIDED HUNT AND IS VERY PLEASED TO JUST HAVE A GENERAL DEER TAG EVERY COUPLE YEARS BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THIS STATE HAS TURNED INTO HAS TO BE LOOKING AT SFW SAYING WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH THESE PEOPLE THEN EVERYBODY SETS BACK AND WONDERS WHY THERE IS SO MANY POACHINGS GOING ON AND IS ONLY GETTING WORSE PEOPLE ARE FED UP WITH THE HOLE THING BETWEEN THE WOLVES AND SO MANY HUNTERS AND NOT ENUF ANIMALS/TAGS HUNTING IS GOING DOWN HILL VERY FAST THE WAY I SEE IT AND IF ALL THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE HAD TO FACE JUST WITHIN THE LAST 10 YEARS DOUBLE LIKE IT LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE IM VERY SORRY TO SAY IT BUT MY 4 YEAR OLD LITTLE GIRL WONT KNOW WHAT HUNTING IS ALL ABOUT NO IM NOT IN THE POSSITION TO GO FIX THE PROBLEMS AT HAND OR WOULD EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START BUT THIS IS MY ANSER TO THE ? OF THIS POST


UTAH NEEDS A HELL OF ALOT MORE THAN A NEW CONSERVATION GROUP
AND ALOT LESS SFW VOICING TO THE D.W.R. WHY? WELL ASK YOURSELF THIS ? REALLY WHAT HAVE THEY REALLY DONE WITH ALL THE MILLONS OF $ THEY HAVE MADE/HAD DID IT MAKE HUNTING BETTER FOR US IMO HELL NO THEY HAVE MADE IT WORSE REMEMBER I STARTED PACKING A GUN IN 96 IT WAS THE MUZZLELOADER HUNT WHEN IT WAS STILL IN NOVEMBER YES THERE WAS 2' OF SNOW ME AND DAD HUNTED THE HOLE HUNT HARD YUP KILLED ME A 2 PIONT THE LAST DAY NO DEER THEN NO DEER NOW ONLY ITS GOT WORSE THERES NO DEER NOW AND HALF THE PEOPLE CANT DRAW A TAG IS IT GOING TO GET BETTER HAHAHAHA 2 GENERAL RIFLE HUNTS BACK TO BACK NEXT YEAR YUP ARE DEER HERD LOOKS LIKE IT GOING TO EXPLODE.



This is not a post to bash me or Don or the Expo or anyone else. This is just a post to see if the emails I am receiving are the minority or majority of hunters interested in Utah wildlife

 

[justr_86]

No I don't think we need another conservations group. We need to get rid of the ones we have and work directly through the DNR. the millions of dollars spent through other groups would be better served that way IMO. They have RAC meeting for public input and you can see and help what is going on. I personally see more projects from them than any of the "conservation groups." That's where my money goes and I fell its the place that its the best spent. You all label them as money grubbing SOB's but I don't see how any of them are getting rich off your donations. the higher ups make a decent wage but I can guarantee its a lot less than any of the higher ups in a conservation group.

 

[wileywapati]

This whole system is so corrupt that once involved it's hard to not turn in to a tag / money driven whore... You'd do anything to
keep the pipe in your mouth. ( like selling a canned hunt on Antelope Island with none of the money going back in to habitat!!! )

Now the Legislature has found a new toy in Whoring out OUR Tags to pay for who knows what. These Antelope Island Tags are just the start!!!! Wait till the Legislature decides they need to get in to the Auction game and they start letting these Tag Whoring Organizations sell another 500 or 1000 Permits.. The Legislature needs some new Chambers, ah $hit sell a few tags and it's a done deal.

Tony your big ginger ass should be one of the first to get a boot in it!!!! You created this fiasco, you were one of the crew that started the train!!! This sumbitch is so far out of control now that the only thing that can stop it is to pull the tracks out from under it and start over!!!

Way to ruin my Sunday A-HOLES!!!!


WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE ORG'S!!!! WE NEED TO TAKE BACK THE ONES THAT CURRENTLY EXIST!!! AS WELL AS THE LEGISLATURE, LEADERSHIP OR LACK THEREOF AT THE DWR AND THE WILDLIFE BOARD!!!! THESE PEOPLE ARE SELLING ALL OF US DOWN THE RIVER FOR A FEW DOLLARS!!!













*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.

 

[hossblur]

Big ginger ass?? I happen to like Tony but that is good verbage right there. Haven't laughed on the board for a long time, but that does deserve an award!!!!

 

[cannonball]

Lumpy,

You have a way with words, a little long, but very well said. If you're talking pheasants - habitat is the word. If you're talking wolves - Peay is the word. But if you're talking deer it's the DWR and politics as usual. Let's face it there are going to be so many wild animals in the mountains and bear, lions and elk have replaced deer. Don't hold your breath until you see deer increase or they will call you "BLUE BOY". But carry on - the deer need you. I've seen the best of deer hunting and now I'm afraid we are going to see the worst of it and nothing but a total house cleaning of the DWR political machine is going to change that. They seem to be doing a good job with other animals, just not deer - - and I might add, never will.

 

[justr_86]

If deer were put as the priority they would come back. Right now its elk and turkey. Elk are doing great, change your focus to deer before we lose them. When the wolf gets established here we won't have any deer plain and simple.

 

[Zeke]

+1 for 2lumpy's post. (fix the wagon you're in)

NO NEW GROUPS!!!!! Sorry Tony but things would get really diluted.
We need to back the best and forget the rest.

I plan on being a part of SFW and the other top groups.

I could dribble on but it's all been said. Thanks for letting me throw in my 2 cents.

Zeke

 

[cabinfever]

The battle rages on, whilst the deer herds decline.....seems like were all fighting a losing battle, and with all the special interest groups and millions of dollars generated through auction tags you'd think we'd have the best deer herd on the planet. Can't see how creating another group will benefit us here in Utah. Heck, we can't even control the current groups in power! It's frustrating to lose a battle, that we have the resources to win.

Mike

 

[travishunter3006]

best deer managment.... how about you all give me one dollar... i will go buy some land... put all the deer in utah on it. then let all 100,000 hunters come hunt, one at a time of course.. until all 5 deer in utah either are killed or their population booms and we have millions again... just my two cents

 

[222desertmuley]

The 5% (5,000) of members mentioned above need to show up at a rack meeting with the media notified,and Im sure that would leave a big enough impression on the DWR to let them know we want to see a change in our deer herds!

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

hornkiller, I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to mule deer. SFW has failed miserably in that catagory. But really, how do you think our elk herds would be or the sheep herds or buffalo, or anything else but turkeys, if it were not for SFW? I'm not saying they are the only ones that are doing any good because they're not. But they sure do a lot more than you give them credit for. I agree with hossblur in regards to the transparency issue and accountability but I haven't seen another group, except RMEF get behind the wolf thing. That's not saying there aren't others but SFW and RMEF are the 2 main ones right now. I wonder how they can afford to do that. Oh, that's right, they have "big money"! Thank GOD!!!!!! At least there are people like Don Peay and Tony and others that are willing to put their name out there and risk it all in the name of wildlife. Unlike YOU hornkiller, that can't even put your name on simple MM post. Unless your name is behind your words I value your oppinion about as much as I valued that handfull of TP I wiped my ass with this morning. Now enough with the personal attacks youngster. Just debate an issue and keep it civil. Most of all, back up your words with your signature.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[hoytme]

"WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE ORG'S!!!! WE NEED TO TAKE BACK THE ONES THAT CURRENTLY EXIST!!! AS WELL AS THE LEGISLATURE, LEADERSHIP OR LACK THEREOF AT THE DWR AND THE WILDLIFE BOARD!!!! THESE PEOPLE ARE SELLING ALL OF US DOWN THE RIVER FOR A FEW DOLLARS!!!"

A-FREAKING-MEN! Well said Gordy!

It never ceases to amaze me how people still believe we have trophy class elk because of SFW. Nothing could be further from reality! We have trophy class elk because we issue such a small number of tags.

Any conservation group that sells/pimps tags in ANY way is going to quickly be corrupted and be no different than the current CORRUPT groups.

http://www.politicalnecrosis.com

 

[swbuckmaster]

+10000000

There are no big bucks in Utah! LOL

 

[isayNUNYA]

Wow PROytme, a corrupt con man pointing fingers at corrupt con men. Maybe you should start a Con Org.! Can we trust you with our money?

 

[hornkiller]

It must have been that sand paper kind they have in the church! go get some quilted northern i bet you will value that alot more hahaha and by the way did you see the news lately all that BIG money didnt help much on the wolf issue guees they need a couple more millon right?