Does anyone agree?

[Yoyak]

I think far too many deer die during the last week of the slaughter season Oct 24-31.

Last year in unit 39 we had some major storms that forced deer to migrated the last week, and far too many didn't make it. I was nervous when I saw the lack of deer on the winter range last year and this year's hunting season had made me even more nervous.

Has anyone else noticed a drastic decline in deer numbers this year? The check stations will tell you that the success rate is way down and the reason is the deer are "dispersed". Dispersed? Really? did all the hunters who are usually dispersed throughout the unit get together and decide, "hey lets not spread out this year lets all hunt together" BS.

I could go on and on but all I'm saying is our deer herds are in trouble and I hope F&G realizes it before we have to contact that judge that put wolves back on the endangered species list and ask him to put mule deer on the list while hes at it.

What does everyone think about closing the last week? For those of you who say no because it will reduce your opportunity, well how bout we add a week to the start of the season. At least at the start of the season it is "man vs. deer"; where as the end of the season is "man vs. deer who is vulnerable due to weather, migration and hormones."

I could be way off here, but if I am please tell why you think I am.

 

[Wlfdg]

This is my first season hunting in Idaho. But I know I haven't seen many animals at all. What I have seen is not what I would expect. I think the herds need some extra help! Close the last week, close the late season. See what happens?






The more people I meet the more I like my dogs

 

[brymoore]

I don't think we should close the last week of season. Killing bucks shouldn't impact the herd health for the next year. One buck can breed a slew of does. Last year the deer moved down earlier due to the weather. It was easier hunting the deer then because they were concentrated (instead of dispersed). The severe winter killed more animals than a normal winter, also lessing the herd number.

I'm primarily elk hunting right now but I'm seeing deer when I'm out. The bucks I've seen have been small and I've been passing on them.

Deer are still there and will rebound with a couple good years of winter weather.

 

[gemstatejake]

No I dont agree..................brymoore nailed it though.

 

[Yoyak]

I guess we'll see what shows up on the winter range this year. If its any more of a ghost town than last year, the recovery might take awhile.

 

[idabigbuck]

I would be against closing the season on the 24th. Do you have any statistics on when deer are harvested? I would say that most of the deer are harvested the first week of the season. By the end of the season I think it is the die hards left hunting. I don't want more hunting opportunity taken away. What few days I get in the field are precious to me so please don't start a campaign to shorten our seasons. Because of my job situation I can only hunt primarily on the weekends. Under your scenario, I would have only had two opportunities to hunt this season. That last week of the general season is probably my only chance to take a quality buck. I would just as soon not turn Idaho into another Utah, with most of the hunters upset that they can't draw a tag, and harvesting the only deer they see because that is the only deer that will show himself in the early season.
My 2 cents.
Its fair chase, or its foul!

 

[Idahogrinder]

I dont think it would make a diff at all. The weather changes every year, and this year the deer aren't going to migrate untill the season is over if this weather pattern keeps up. could migrate right after season is over or later, but who knows.... I agree with the post saying most are harvested in the first week. The pre rut is startin, and that does make bigger buck a little more vulnerable, but not enough to make a diff!

 

[Yoyak]

I understand and respect your concerns, but would you be okay with the same length season that just starts earlier. Oct 10- Oct 31st.... 22 days. How about Oct 1st- 22nd..... 22 days. The difference would be the deer are less vulnerable during this time. The guys who kill big bucks will be the ones who earn it... scouting, scouting, scouting, and finally killing because they done their homework. That is all I'm saying.

As far as numbers of bucks killed the last week; that is something the F&G probably has info on and if they don't they should be documenting the ages of the buck coming through the check stations each week.

My beliefs are just based on personal experience. Last year a buck that I look forward to seeing on the winter range every year didn't make back because he was shot the last week while migrating. I found this buck sheds the previous 3 years and he was old as dirt. When he was killed his teeth were at the gum line and he didn't have an ounce of fat on him (so he probably would have died this winter anyway). Somehow he was able to survive the most congested migration corridor in the state for 7-8 years until a rough winter forced him to migrate. I guess I'm just disappointed that he wasn't going to make it back to the winter range; but at least the lucky hunter got to harvest him versus winter kill.
The same thing happened to a friend of mine. He found consecutive years off a buck and last year during the last week he was also harvested while migrating. Once again a seasoned veteran who had succesfully alluded hunters year after year didn't make it because of the last week of the season. I'd much rather see someone earn these deer by doing their homework and killing them in their summer home thats all.

 

[Idahogrinder]

This really isn't a shot at anyone, let me say that first off! The only time I've encountered check stations is opening week in my area. Even if they have the harvest data, they don't know if the 4 point was mature or not,and I don't think they're that concerned, mainly because of whats been said in previous posts, there just isn't nearly as many people in the woods by the last few days of season. As for people earning their deer, sometimes you just get lucky, we've all seen the road hunter with the 4x4. Hell the biggest elk I've seen come out of 39 was shot right off the road by a guy I work with, on his way to set up camp, ran right across the road infront of him. I am not going to lie, if a toad runs out in front of me, and I got the tag, its gettin whacked, it wasn't in a subalpine basin, 300 miles from a road, but hey I'd rather be lucky than good anyday.
Even if the deer are migrating, a big mature deer is no slouch, and will still require some level of skill to close the deal. If you want to take the purist route, hang up your rifle Oct 20th and be happy of the experiance whether you notched your tag or not.

 

[Yoyak]

Fair enough, I started this topic to get an idea peoples opinions, and I guess I'm in the minority here.

Opportunity, opportunity, opportunity until there is none left, seems to be the majority.

Thanks for responding everyone this was an eye-opener for me.

 

[muleybucks]

I agree to a point. Something needs to change. A shorter season is one option to control hunters and harvest. In truth, there are a couple of options I would like to see explored. Oct 10-24 is general rifle. OCT 25-31 is a muzz season and a DIFFERENT tag is required so you pick your season/weapon/tag to keep the lazy 4 wheeler rider or road hunter from capitalizing on the foot of snow and migrating monster bucks the last 3 days of the season.

I agree that something needs to change to balance the opportunity with the resource. When the resource becomes vulnerable due to weather or the rut, the opportunities should be managed inversely (shorter seasons or restricted weapons or travel restrictions, etc.).

If you have time and haven't already read the "IDAHO DEER HERDS IN BIG TROUBLE", please take the time to read it. This topic has been discussed in detail, with some good info passed around.

Thanks.
Muleybucks
[email protected]

 

[Idahogrinder]

I think the picking your weapon route would be a good start. But it raises a few questions. 1. would muzzleloader restrictions change, such as allowing inlines on general hunts. I also think deer tags should be zone restricted, just like elk! Be nice to see what comes of all this!

 

[idhunters]

I don't understand how allowing those 2 old bucks you mention to survive the last week of season would make any difference at all to the herds health.

In fact, killing them seems like a better idea then having them on the winter range, displacing some does, eating forage only to die in March?

In fact, how does killing bucks impact the herd?

Now, as far as the experience of hunting, it would be great to somehow spread out the hunter numbers. I also think that there are very few areas in Idaho where you can justify killing does. I also think predation is high, and there area some habitat issues (like stagnant CRP). I also believe that reducing cattle numbers increasing the grass forage and encourages more elk, less deer. Deer browse, cattle and elk graze. I know some areas that are full of cattle, and full of deer, with very few elk. Just an observation.

 

[Deerlove]

I was in 66 and 66a this last weekend and the CO said the cow elk hunters were hurting the deer herd. YOu send out a 1000 cow tags on the diamond creek zone and these guys are also deer hunting. He wanted it to be controlled. OR stop the season (deer) on the 24. HE had more valid reasons. ID need to stop selling so many OTC tags and issue more muzz tags in different units to disperse the hunters.

 

[Yoyak]

This link explains a little bit about why I think it is important that those two mature bucks survive. Click on the link and read the article.

http://www.muleymadness.com/stories/fawns.php

Sometimes a two point just can't get the job done.
So managing for opportunity (two points or immature bucks) might not be sustainable long term.

 

[idhunters]

I can tell you what that article says without clicking the link. It says you need to have mature bucks breeding the does in the first cycle so the fawns will be born earlier, weigh more in the fall, and overwhelm the predators by hitting the ground within a week.

Your post described two deer that "were going to die" anyway, not 2 mature bucks in their prime. The fact that those old bucks were there in the first place means bucks have reached maturity in that unit.

Lets push the F&G to increase the number of mature deer per 100 does post harvest. I don't know that cutting off the last week would, on average, do that. I don't think the last week of this years season is going to make that much difference.