DIY vs Guided

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dh2273

Guest
"The mere fair weather hunter, who trusts entirely to the exertions of others, and does nothing more than ride or walk about under favorable circumstances, and shoot at what somebody shows him, is a hunter in name only."
Theadore Roosevelt 1891

Well written Mr President
 
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JB
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LMAO, JB!! It only took 2 posts for him to get to this subject.

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>JB
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Just an interesting quote from a wealthy and visionary American who had many options but chose a path that was different than many. It is unique in that it was written 109 years ago and is more timely today than ever. Not meant to spark debate but simply to provide food for thought. May we all write or do things that have some meaning a century later.
 
I think if you do some research, you will find that TR went on many guided hunts here and in Africa.

RELH
 
What does DIY really mean?

Good thought good debate but TR did do many guided hunts (as RELH pointed out) and to think that he was a completely DIY (in the pure sense) is funny and for that matter anyone else who hunts with a partner, friend, brother, sister, mother, father, dog or what ever is having someone there to help them out in one way shape or form, I would question if they really are a true DIY hunter in the pure sense of the word.

I would venture that there are not too many of the hunting public that "who trusts entirely to the exertions of others" I think (based on my personal experiences with guided hunters) that most of them are accomplished hunters that don't "trusts entirely to the exertions of others"

Todd Black
BTO
 
I think this thread will be better suited focusing on the DIY portion. As others have pointed out, DIY would basically involve a man or woman, alone, throughout all scouting and preparation, and the hunt itself. In my opinion, this definition of DIY does not sound fun at all...
MY definition of DIY means that you, along with those you love to share the experience, scout, and prep, and go hutning together...
Guided would be where you PAY someone who has found an animal for you.
I've often wondered about Doyle Moss, and Mel Helm who hunts regularly with Doyle. Mel and Doyle seem to be more friends than guide and client... So, to each his own. If you find a guide that you get along with, maybe it is no longered "guided"...

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
I do DIY and have done (most of the time) since I was about 25 (that's 30 years). When I take my son or daughter (or even son-in-law), they are not there to help.

In the last 5 years, the llamas have helped (should have gotten them LONG ago) but I hunt with my own effort. I do wish I had gone with my dad more often.....not for the help but because he was my dad and the man from whom I inherited the love of the outdoors.


Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
2 years ago myself and 2 buddies went on an archery elk hunt with Gary Amerine of Greys River Trophies. We live and have our careers in WI. Time constraints with our jobs limits vacation time, so to maximize hunting time and the overall experience we went with Gary.We are all accomplished hunters so believe me when I say that we did not merely rely on the exertions of others and simply kill an animal that they picked out for us. We worked just as hard as the guides chasing elk all over those beautiful mountains. We helped with the horses, split our own firewood and enjoyed an awesome hunt. We have formed a lasting friendship with our guides and chat with Gary every once in a while.

Just as all of us Sportsmen don't want to be lumped together with the unethical weekend warrior crowd, not every hunter who hunts with an outfitter/guide is a lazy, let someone else do all the work animal shooter.


Good luck this season.

Nails
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-10 AT 07:46PM (MST)[p]
"The mere fair weather hunter,"

It snowed and the wind was blowing 30 mph the day I went on a guided hunt

"who trusts ENTIRELY to the exertions of others,"

Sure never been on one of those. I had some ideas and input.

"and does nothing more than ride or walk about under favorable circumstances,"

Rode and hiked miles and miles up and down mountains in swirling winds

"and shoot at what somebody shows him,"

I saw the buck first and made a 400 yard shot on him!

"is a hunter in name only"

I have many names and where many hats: Hunter, guide, teacher, student, father, son and learned something from the all.

I have only been on a couple of guided hunts in my time, but the above doesn't describe what I did (or what Teddy did on his guided hunts)

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Ya know dh2273, you sound like a real peice of work. One of your first posts on this site is putting down people who go on guided hunts. My guess is that you probably aren't all that good when it comes to hunting, therefore it makes you feel better to put down someone who hires a guide. I could be wrong, but most people who are secure with themselves, would not care that someone else hires a professional to do a job.
I feel sorry for you dh2273.

I personally have never been on a guided hunt, I do my taxes myself, I built my own garage, mow my own lawn, clean my own house, and many other things. However, I can't imagine getting on a website and putting down people who have to hire someone to do their taxes, or fix their plumbing, or mow their lawn, or fix their car.

The fact is, I might never have hired a guide, but if I were to hunt a place and/or animal that I knew little about, I would probably hire a guide, so I guess I take your shot personal.

I'm betting that if I knew how your hunts went every year, I could probably take shots and you and how you do things too.

Anyway, we might not know who you are and in a week, you will just be a vague memory of another dude who jumped on MM and took a shot at someone. BUT, you know who you are, and you should go away asking yourself, "Am I really as great as I think I am?" "Can I really handle everything in my life myself, without hiring someone to help?"
I think when you answer those questions, you will feel like as much of a dip as you sound to many of us.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Brian

I can't believe you jumped this guy's case. He is a true DIY Hunter. Do you think anyone other than himself mined the ore, refined it, cast it, machined into parts and assembled his vehicle and weapon? Manufactured the synethics, dyed, cut and sewed his designer camo? I'm sure he has never paid anyone to do that which he could not do for himself. No one could be that condescending unless he was truley walking the walk.

I think you should apologize.
 
I went guided on my Colo Mnt. Lion hunt.

first time ever on a guided hunt.

Kinda different for me----

Very enjoyable and successful.

DIY to me is more of a term/saying than a scientific specific term.

I think all of us are DIY.

Robb
 
"DIY" is a hypocritical, egotist, concept.

Unless you are hunting naked, with a stick, I don't want to hear about it!
 
I want to hunt naked with a stick and have Tiffany as my guide! LOL (don't tell my wife of my guided hunt fantasy)

I think DIY is ONLY a term to describe unguided hunting. I beleive NONE of our hunts are truly diy. We ALL rely on other people for some part of our hunt! It's part of being a member of society.

Even when I'm hunting all alone I remember all the lessons learned from others, all the stuff I use was made by others, all the informative tips received from others.

Are we ever alone? Really?

The vast majority of my hunts have been self-guided, usually with my brother or other family member. I simply find it more enjoyable to share a hunt with them.

I've been blessed to have been on several guided hunts over the decades. NWT Canada, Wyoming, Tajikistan, Mongolia, Kansas, Africa. On every hunt I have felt like I was part of the hunt, not just being lead around by the hand. I respectfully disagree with anyone who thinks that a guided hunt diminishes the experience. Especially when all but one of my guided hunts have been required by law. (here I am, justifying a guide haha)

Do we really need to justify to other hunters when we use a guide? Do we really need to feel like we are less qualified as a hunter? Do we really need to justify when we hunt animals that others don't or can't?

A GOOD guide can enrich the experience of the hunt when a friend or family member can't be there. Besides I get tired of all the "Look at me" "chest pounding" of some of the DIY crowd.
They are NOT holier than thou!

What do you all think about it? Does it make sense?

Zeke
 
>Ya know Founder, you sound like
>a real peice of work. .........
>I feel sorry for you Founder.
>

Give dh2273 a break. Why don't you read the quote and his subsequent comment. I don't think that he is trying to say going guided or not is good bad or indifferent. I happen to agree with Teddy's quote and it sounds like dh2273 does also. I don't consider a person who has a guide do all the work other than the actual trigger pull a "hunter". That being said, I don't think that all people who hire a guide are automatically classified this way and would venture to guess that most are not. I know many people that I consider "hunters" who have gone on guided hunts. I also know plenty of people that "hunt" unguided but are a far cry from being considered a "hunter".
 
Wow. I guess a made a huge mistake in the title of the post. I have been guided in the NWT for Dall Sheep and loved every minute of the experience. I was in no way implying anything other than the fact that there is a certain sastisfaction in doing your part and working hard on your hunt to be succesful, whether guided or not. Mr Roosevelt did indeed take many guided hunts but was one who always wanted to pitch in and be a part of the experience and I admire him for that. I apoligize for a poorly drafted headline but not for the content. If we can't take a quote from a great American and admire the man and his beliefs than we are narrow minded indeed. We can learn a great deal from Teddy Roosevelt if we spend a little time studying his life and what made him succesful.
As for you Mr Founder, you need not feel sorry for me. My trophy room is full but the bucks and bulls I am most proud of are not the biggest ones but the ones I have worked the hardest for. Thanks for the hearty welocome to your site.
 
dh2273

Thanks for the clarification. I've never been on a guided hunt and I'm always the one that does the planning, sets up camp and makes most of the hunting decisions. The mounts I have would not be considered trophies by most standards, but each is special to me and my wife. They are the reminders of kills well earned in special places. I apologize for my snippy comments in the previous post. Welcome to the board.
 
I took/take the post that began this thread at face value, and saw this post as another shot at people who hire guides for hunts.....a thread in-which the original poster was hoping to lift his spirits and make himself feel better by bringing down folks who have gone on guided hunts.
I suppose I could be wrong, but I'm going to stick with my gut on this one.
I do not believe he was simply admiring the comments of a great president, but instead trying to get some "bash guided hunters" thread rolling.

FlyFool - You can read it any way you want, and I will do the same. There is nothing wrong with folks going on guided hunts, just as there is nothing wrong with someone hiring another to build a house.

I haven't studied Mr. President Teddy, but if he went on guided hunts, then turned around and said those words, then I would guess that they were either taken out of context or just stupid words.

I'm sticking with my original gut feeling on this and I think the original poster wanted to get a thread going in-which others jumped on and talked about how people who go on guided hunts are lesser hunters than the rest of us.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Guess it goes both ways. Have no problem with a guided hunt if the hunter works at it. Tired of the chest pounding of the DIY hunters?? Say what!!! How about the guides mandating guides in WY and AK because they are smarter then me and are the only ones qualified to be in certain areas?? Guides getting mandatory tags to sell sell???? I guess there are no such things as DIY hunters are while I reload I don't make the bullets....but then again since guides don't make the trucks, bullets, powder, etc maybe they should be required to have a guide in the woods too.
 
I was simply rereading a great story by TR called "An Elk Hunt at Two Ocean Pass" and found it interesting. He killed at least 5 bulls on the trip where he took only the antlers and left the meat to rot as was the custom of the day. It is interesting to follow his growth into who he later became, President, co founder of the Boone and Crocket Club, founder of the National Parks Organization and visionary sportsman and leader. He started life as a weak and poor sighted rich kid from New york who embraced boxing and ranching and the outdoors and it transformed him. It is a facinating case study.
His words carry weight seeing as his programs are still in existence today. I doubt there is an outfitter or guide today who does not appreciate a hunter who shows up in camp with a can do attitude. One willing to hunt in snow or sun, help chop a little firewood, clean a few dishes or saddle his own horse at 4 am if he has the ability. It adds to the memories and richness of the experience, in my opinion.
He also had some interesting opinions on hunting whitetails vs mule deer but if posted here it might be mistaken as inflamatory. Not so. It is simply a reflection of his individual personality. Each of us has our favorite based on how we were raised and what we most enjoy and it can be interesting to examine why we love what we love. Mr Roosevelt accomplished more in his lifetime that most of us could even dream of. Though I will never be half the man that he was it is a worthy goal to aspire to be a little better and wonder if he still has words that can teach us these many years later.
 
I agreee that there is nothing wrong with going on a guided hunt for many of the reasons listed above. However I think we can all agree that there is a difference (not right or wrong) between guided and unguided. If there wasn't why would anyone ever hire a guide.

In the same way there is a difference between a guy who builds his own recurve bow versus the guy who walks in and buys one off the shelf. There is nothing wrong with shooting either bow but there is a greater level of satisfaction in building the bow on your own.

Relating to the ideas shared above, a guided hunt could be compared to hiring someone to help you build a bow. If you are involved in every step of the process the end result will be very rewarding and something to be proud of.

Or a guy could hire someone to teach him how to build a bow and sit in a chair or in another room checking in on how things are going every once in a while. Each would be different experience and I think that's what the quote being discussed conveys.
 
>I was simply rereading a great
>story by TR called "An
>Elk Hunt at Two Ocean
>Pass" and found it interesting.
> He killed at least
>5 bulls on the trip
>where he took only the
>antlers and left the meat
>to rot as was the
>custom of the day.
>It is interesting to follow
>his growth into who he
>later became, President, co founder
>of the Boone and Crocket
>Club, founder of the National
>Parks Organization and visionary sportsman
>and leader. He started
>life as a weak and
>poor sighted rich kid from
>New york who embraced
>boxing and ranching and the
>outdoors and it transformed him.
> It is a facinating
>case study.
>His words carry weight seeing as
>his programs are still in
>existence today. I doubt
>there is an outfitter or
>guide today who does not
>appreciate a hunter who shows
>up in camp with a
>can do attitude. One
>willing to hunt in snow
>or sun, help chop a
>little firewood, clean a few
>dishes or saddle his own
>horse at 4 am if
>he has the ability.
>It adds to the memories
>and richness of the experience,
>in my opinion.
>He also had some interesting opinions
>on hunting whitetails vs mule
>deer but if posted here
>it might be mistaken as
>inflamatory. Not so.
>It is simply a reflection
>of his individual personality.
>Each of us has our
>favorite based on how we
>were raised and what we
>most enjoy and it can
>be interesting to examine why
>we love what we love.
> Mr Roosevelt accomplished more
>in his lifetime that most
>of us could even dream
>of. Though I will never
>be half the man that
>he was it is a
>worthy goal to aspire to
>be a little better and
>wonder if he still has
>words that can teach us
>these many years later.

If you had put this post with your original, this thread would not have gotten out of hand. You sound like an intelligent guy, and if you have been around hunting websites at all you should know that this topic (DIY vs. guided) is a frequent argument between hunters about who the "true" hunters are. So to come on hear and use that post as your opening one, 99.9% of us made the assumption you were here to stir the pot. To be honest, I susupected that you were a regular coming in under an assumed name to kick up some sh... The jury is still out on that one, but you have to admit, it looked and smelled fishy. At this point, I will take your word and wait to see how things unfold.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
DITTO txhunter58. We must be brothers seperated at birth.....I'm sure I got the good looks though! LOL

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
We all learn to hunt in different ways. I remember my first hunting experiences. My dad and my best friend's dad were in every sense "guides" except I didn't pay them anything. I wouldn't be much of a hunter on my own if they hadn't shown me the ropes.

If someone wants to hire a guide to learn or to fill a dream of a trophy on the wall, to each thier own.

I read earlier over in the hunting adventure challenge about how ladyshooter had learned to hunt with her husband. He was in essence her guide. One year when he was out of town she did an archery spike elk hunt on her own. I was very impressed that she shot cleaned quartered and packed out her spike with no help from others ... except for the help she recieved earlier on previous hunts when she learned what to do.

My trophies are the animals that I've harvested since I was shown the ropes. If money were no object I might enjoy a monster or two on the wall that a guide pointed out to me, until then I look forward to my next hunting adventure, whether it's on my own, with family, with friends, or maybe someday guided.
 
I will have to admit that when I flip through a hunting magazine I specifically look for DIY hunt stories. Thats what gets my blood pumping, gets me excited and makes me want to get out there and get it done! These people have my admiration and respect. I also admire people who do thier owne taxes and build thier owne houses but if you don't know how then I do not disrespect you for buying a house or paying to get your taxes done. But I feel like these are professions and a person just cannot know everything to live life. On the other hand, hunting is a hobby and you do not need it to survive and therefore a person who goes to the extremes on his owne will earn more of my respect. A man who plays football or baseball either professionally or as a hobby cannot pay somebody to accomplish his accomplishments. He must earn it himself. Maybe thats why Americans love sports so much. Because they appreciate a persons individual accomplishments. Same goes for the Olympics. I definitely feel like there is a place for Guides and Outfitters though. A man who knows nothing about hunting should be guided because he will just get himself in trouble. If I were to go Grizzly hunting in Alaska then it would be wise for me to use a guide or I could get killed. So you might ask just where do I stand on this subject and my answer would be on the fence. But I definitely lean a lot harder on the DIY side. Now that there is my opinion and thats all it is. You can call me egotistical or say I'm stirring the pot if you want but I feel that I am truley expressing my feelings about something that is dear to my heart. fatrooster.
 
The title of your post is "DIY vs Guided". Then you make a quote by TR that has nothing what so ever to do with DIY or guided. Then you claim to be a student of TR??

I think Founder nailed it right off.

Eel
 
Guided or not who really gives a rats? To each his own if you can do it then go ahead. Some of you kill me.... And no I have never hired a guide to poor for that.
 
I think most hunters don't have a problem with a "guided hunt". What alot of people, including myself do have a problem is when someone hires a Outfitter to guide him to a trophy buck. Then the outfitter and his guides find a buck and watch this bucks every move until the season arrives, then have the so called hunter set up to shoot the buck at daylight. Then this guy show off the monster buck he paid for, I mean killed. That would be like having someone build you a house and you writing the check and saying "I just built my own house"... In no way, shape or form am I saying that all guided hunts are like that, but there is more of that going on now than ever before. Good luck to all guided or unguided.


TBC
 
The big picture is this.....it is your tag to hunt any way you desire as long as it is done legally. Either way, it is one animal and one animal has the potential of going down. No more and no less. fatrooster.
 

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