Digi Scoping Question

[Hookedhornoutfitters]

I am currently using a Vortex Razor HD 16-48x65 Angled Spotting. Top with the Phoneskope adapter for my I-phone. The picture quality is okay. I am looking for something a little better Has anyone ever tried using some of the other set ups out there. Like the Vortex camera adapter with a standard digital camera. If so what is the best camera to use with it and which adapter?

 

[O_S_O_K]

I have the Tines-up set-up and it works really good for video, not so good for pics (through the Swaro spotter).

I have still not been able to find anything that takes pics through a spotter better than attaching an actual DSLR, but your talking some bucks there.

There are a few guys on here that do quite a bit of digiscoping and have gotten some great results. Hopefully they will chime in.


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

 

[SHEDYGAGA]

My take is this.

"If you can see a certain level of quality through your scope, you can capture that same level of quality, OR BETTER, through your camera."

That's my take.

The thing is, it IS NOT ABOUT THE ADAPTER!!!!!

It is all about CAMERA CONTROL.

Your camera is confused by your spotting scope.
Its processor and sensor do not understand what is going on when you take a picture through the scope.

To get good quality out of your digiscoping set up, you have to manually make your camera understand the scope.

You can switch cameras, adapters, scopes, whatever you want. But until you get the camera under control, you will fight quality.

The thing about camera phones is they don't have a ton of control options.

Some of the phones are getting pretty good, but the sensors are tiny. The controls are very limited, and the processors, are programmed to work in situations where you would typically use a phone to take a picture.

Point and shoots have better sensors. They have more manual functions. The processors are more capable.

DSLR cameras have the best sensors, the most controls, and will give you the best results.

If I were you, I would look at the adapters that will allow you to connect a DSLR to your scope. They are tougher to find.

The market is over run with phone adapters. The DSLR adapters are less in demand.

Just remember, what ever adapter you choose, it wont make a bit of difference if you cant make the camera capture what your eye is seeing.

 

[SHEDYGAGA]

In the other forums categories, there are a few examples of shots I got this fall.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID27/2615.html#.UqydgdJDsS4

That is the optics forum.

These are a few more examples.

The above pics were digiscoped at long range.
When you go long range, and are taking pics on 45X - 70X, you will never get the super fine detail that you can get when you get close.

But, when you get close, and you have camera control, you will be able to get results like this.

I got into digiscoping in May of 2013.
I worked my butt off all summer learning how to do it.

Its not as easy as going out, turning on the camera and getting a quick snap.

You really need to learn how to control your camera.
You have to make the camera understand what the scope glass is doing to the image, before the sensor and processor will record a good image.

Even then, you will take some crap pictures.
With all my practice, I still take some real junk.
I took this one a couple weeks ago.
My scope was set to 70X magnification.
The animals were 1,400 yards away.
The scope was looking into the sun.
The heat waves were really giving me problems.

That is some crappy digiscoping in my opinion.
But, there is nothing I can do about the conditions.
The only option is to get closer.
By getting closer, I could have eliminated some of the heat wave distortion, I could have used a lower magnification, but if I was still looking into the sun, I would have the same washed out look to the picture.

Good digiscoping is more about photography than it is about your scope, adapter, and gear.

I am available to guys who want to improve picture quality with digiscoping. But you are gonna have to put in the time.

I would start by finding out what your phone capabilities are.
Do you have ISO controls?
If you do, they are probably not in a wide range.

Do you have shutter speed controls?
Again, probably not a wide range.

Do you have white balance controls?

If you do, play with them.
Try stuff out.

If you want to improve quality even further, go to a point and shoot with a small optical zoom, preferably one that has a wide range of manual controls.

If you really want to get good shots, go full DSLR. Like O_S_O_K_ said. These cameras have the best sensors, processors, and most user friendly manual controls.

Its all comes down to how serious you are about getting good pictures.

I am no expert. I improve all the time. I learn more and more each time I go out. I hope that I will be good enough in a few years to get some incredible images via digiscoping.

I think its a legitimate form of photography. The reason most people don't consider it to be valid is because they see tons and tons of low quality images that are digiscoped.
They rarely see digiscoped images that are good quality. This is because of auto mode.

Cameras don't understand digiscoping. You have to do it for them.
This is why digiscoping is considered to be invalid in the photography world.

If you want my help, I am glad to give it.
I don't care what camera you use, what scope you use, what adapter you use. As long as you are willing to learn how to use it.

I can teach you how to digiscope in the dark.
Your camera can gather light when your eye can not.
ISO and shutter speed controls allow your camera to see things, even when you can not.

These images were taken at 2:00 am. With less than half a moon, and clouds in the sky.

It was very dark. But camera controls allow the scope to capture images even after your eye cant see.

That was my first attempt. I adjusted the camera setting even more and got this image.

Same picture, different result. The conditions were actually darker than the first images shows.

You may wonder why I am out at 2:00 am digiscoping.

Because low light conditions are when we see a lot of animals.
I want to be good enough to capture these animals in these low light conditions.
Practice makes prefect.

I do not want to miss some shots because the lighting was too low. By learning how to use my camera, I can compensate for low light.

Good digiscoping is all about camera control.

 

[Squirrel]

Shedy, would love to pick your brain, you have come far. Please give distance and your best guess on the magnification for some of those above shots. I cannot get my dslr to match my point n shoot and would love to know more about exactly what you describe in to much glass getting in the way of sensors. As you state sooner or later it is the same old stuff it has always been, get close and have the right light. Pm sent.

 

[O_S_O_K]

Sheddy,

I am glad you responded. If the OP wants to truly learn then they are best off listening to what Sheddy has said. I am very impressed with how much time and effort he has put into this and I would say he probably knows more about this topic than anyone else I have seen, and he did so in a very short time frame. I have been dabbling with it for probably 4 years now and don't know half of what he has figured out!

I personally have taken the tact that I will try and get as close as I can and use my DSLR with high end lenses to get the best quality possible, but I still do take some video through my spotter and would love to take better pics than I currently get through my spotter.

Sheddy - Those are some very good images. Maybe you can share what set up you are using. I have gotten into manual shooting with my DSLR so I have a fairly good grasp of camera control. What point and shoot are you using? From my experience it also has some to do with your zoom level and your sensor size.

Always willing to learn and thanks for chiming in


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

 

[SHEDYGAGA]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-13 AT 05:12PM (MST)[p]Squirrel, I really like to get within 600 yards, if possible.
I use google earth to find my distances since most range finders don't go out very far.

The sheep were 1,400 yards away, looking into the sun. Scope on 70X

Most of the pics are 300 - 600 yards, except for the 6th pic. That one was 1000 yards on 70X magnification.

The buck we called "Niner" was actually after the sun had set. I used a very high ISO to get that one.

This one was shot at 1,700 yards, actually 1,733 yards, but who is counting?
Shot on 70X and it sucks, but its almost a full mile, so take that into consideration.

 

[SHEDYGAGA]

O_S_O_K_,
I have done a bit with a pextax point and shoot. But I don't anymore. Not since about July.
I hate having to scroll menus.
With the point and shoots, you tend to have to?

focus

hit menu
scroll down to ISO
select
scroll ISO
select
exit
menu
scroll to shutter speed
select
scroll speed
select
exit

view your cameras sample image.

re-focus because the deer has moved.

Decide the ISO is not right
menu
scroll to ISO
select
scroll ISO to adjustment
select
exit.

You get the idea.
Lots of button pushing, lots of scrolling.
I want to make my adjustments really fast.

I want to get focused. adjust the camera, then get the shot off.

DSLR cameras are soooo much more user friendly when it comes to making adjustments.
Especially if you have a display on top of the camera and can use the LCD for focusing and the histogram display.

There is a ton of crap that you have to consider with the digiscoping set ups.

The dual focusing is a nightmare.
Auto modes seem to massively overexpose images when digiscoping. Regardless of the camera used.
Getting the shutter speed fast enough and the ISO in tune with the shutter takes a lot of trial and error.

I am with you O_S_O_K_. I am coming out of the photography background.
I used to look at digiscopers and think "quit wasting your time, get some real photography gear."
But, I eventually thought, other than the eye piece magnifying the image, a spotting scope is basically a camera lens without the auto focus motor.
They are constructed similarly. Lens elements in groups.
When you look at a Swarovski 80mm scope diagram, its a 460mm focal length lens, similar in construction to a 400mm camera lens.
The big difference, is that instead of a camera body mount on the end, its a magnification eye piece.

That and camera lenses tend to flatten an image and scopes don't.

So, I decided to give it a try.

Instantly, the cameras processor did not understand the difference between the camera lens and the spotting scope. So, I had a problem.

I am still working on fixing it.

Traditional camera gear is still better in my opinion, and its way easier to use.
But its also mega expensive.

As for your question, I am using a Canon DSLR and a Swarovski spotting scope.

One thing about point and shoots.
Aperture. When you use the zoom. You need to realize that the more you zoom, the smaller your aperture is getting.

Why does that matter?
(this is another thing I hate about the point and shoots)
Because, the scope cuts down the amount of light that reaches the camera.
Aperture is the size of the hole opening in your camera lens.
This will allow more light in, or less light in.

You want to set your point and shoot up with the camera as close as possible to the eye piece.
Setting the camera back, then using the zoom to get rid of the black ring, is actually causing the cameras aperture to get smaller. You are cutting out light!

This is why the best point and shoots are the ones with a very small optical zoom range and that have a very low aperture number. If you can get an F1.4 aperture with a 4 power optical zoom, then set the camera up as close as possible, you will be helping yourself.

I know that I always say that the adapter does not matter, but this is where it does.
If your adapter won't let you get in the right spot, you will be forced to compensate with the zoom.
But, that does not mean that just because you have to use the zoom, you can't get a good image.

Digiscoping is a HUGE topic. Everyones gear is different, and that makes it hard.

 

[O_S_O_K]

Thanks Sheddy for the specifics. I understand exactly what your talking about with the Aperture and the challenges it presents.

I have a Nikon and have really struggled with whether or not to buy the adapter to connect my DSLR to my Swarovski.

The research I have done shows a couple of options for doing so. One way was to get a fixed 50mm lens and use a T-adapter to attach the camera directly to the scope by removing the eyepiece. The other I found was to buy the Swaro adapter, which I understand has a lens in it, and use that. The first option seems to be cheaper by quite a bit but not a quick set-up and it makes it hard to see through your scope and then attach your camera back and forth.

I guess my real question would be which method are you using and if you have tried both, what one seemed to work better and why? Maybe you are using even another method I am not aware of?

Looking forward to your response and thanks again.

Hopefully this discussion is helping the OP. There is
More info here than I was able to find over a couple of years of searching on my own. Back even 3 years ago there wasn't a lot of data out there and not many people were really doing this.

Now Nikon makes an EDG scope that runs around $5,000 that attaches directly to the front of their DSLR, but for that kind of money you can buy a heck of a lens


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

 

[Squirrel]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-13 AT 06:47AM (MST)[p]shedy, Thanks for providing the most important thing- motivation! Seeing what you have done makes me want to do it and believe that it can be done. I took these two shots yesterday.

This one with a dslr w/200 mm lens at 50 yards, perfect light, untouched as far as editing goes, camera set on auto except for focus which is a constant battle if left on auto as it focuses on the sage fronds just in front of or in back of the subject. It needs to be worked with to darken a bit but I left it 'stock" for this illustration.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/squirrel046/all%20time%20best%20deer/DSC04239.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

This one I took at 400 yards with light snow falling at 20x (scope) point/shoot canon (old) with the 4x zoom at 4x to eliminate the vignetting and bring it closer. On the canon I leave everything on auto.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/squirrel046/all%20time%20best%20deer/IMG_0418.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

This one I took at 200 yds- 20x without zooming the canon, and it kinda splits the difference, crisper edges, but it needs cropped to get rid of the vignetting and when I do that it gets blurry, perhaps because the canon is a 6 M/P??? I dunno...

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/squirrel046/all%20time%20best%20deer/IMG_0336.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

I want pic "b" to look like pic "a" of course. (or better would be nice)

I've been doing this for about 4-5 yrs now with 0 instruction just go out and hope they hold still long enough for me to get a picture, push some buttons and try it again... not very scientific. When I had photography classes they had a dark room, a red light, and 3 trays... so this new stuff is amazing, but the basics are still the same, distance lighting and focus.

Conditions are more difficult as it is generally way below zero and so much white light you can barely see the viewfinder/screen to fine tune focus. The screen is way dark and your pupils are so overwhelmed from the reflected snow light that my eyes just can't see the fine edge details well enough to judge in the field what is crisp focus. When I get home I am always disappointed by what I thought had been perfect focus.

I finally broke down and got a set of "geezer glasses" bifocals and that helped, once I swallowed my pride, of course. I had what I refer to as "the lost year" when I tried to put my dslr on the scope. Between the scope focus the camera focus and the dogs knocking the tripod off of whack it was a hugely frustrating experience, and my pics were BAD.

The dslr could not use it's auto focus as it would get confused by the scope glass. So I went to manual focus on the camera would set to infinity, frame subject, trip shutter (on time release of course) then try to fine tune focus with the scope ring as the deer would move and my fingers would freeze to the pistol grip at -20.

As you stated and anyone who dabbles in it knows magnification is your best crutch but your worst enemy. I went back to using my canon on the scope and keeping my dslr at the ready when a dumb one lets me get close with the 80-200 mm lens. (when I used the dslr on the scope it was with a fixed 50mm)

This pic is about as good as I have been able to get with the canon on the scope. 50 yards fading light, 20x no zoom. It is from last year so I may have touched it up for color- I'm not sure on that.


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/squirrel046/deer%2012-13/IMG_5046_zpsf2c1b3bd.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


One of the reasons I use most everything I can on auto is that it is very difficult to push those buttons with frosted fingers but another is the sheer magnitude of the techno button stuff is overwhelming to a dinosaur. The old days of setting your speed and bracketing with 3 f-stops isn't quite what it used to be...

Don't ever get old shedy, and don't you dare tell me you are over 50 or I'll be PISSED that I can't blame it on age instead of stupidity. ( age is a great excuse for everything that you can't do)

 

[O_S_O_K]

Squirrel,

Those are some pretty good pics in my opinion. I love the lighting on the one with your 200mm shot.

Quick question for you as well, since you have had the experience. When you had your DSLR connected to your scope with the 50mm did you like your results? Was it a pain trying to use the live view and not being able to remove your camera easily? Just trying to get a point of reference.

I know I am going to have to try connecting my DSLR to my scope (been wanting to for a couple of years now (the challenge of digi-scoping won't let me be) cause I know it will give me the best results, but I don't want to spend a bunch of money unless I have some idea that it will work well enough and be worth it.

Anyway, I like your results and share in your frustration. Have a great day!


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

 

[Squirrel]

The short answer is it SUCKS!!! I went out this am after getting all excited to rectify my previous sins thanks to shedy making me feel inadequate. A few minutes and I realized why I quit trying to make it work.

I took these with the 200 mm lens before trying to get "scope pics"

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/squirrel046/all%20time%20best%20deer/DSC04289.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/squirrel046/all%20time%20best%20deer/DSC04284.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


dslr is so flippin heavy balancing on a window mount is next to impossible and it is hard even with my very good bogen tripod w/pistol grip.

focus is next to impossible auto focus is impossible, it just bounces around and will never allow you to take the shot.

After trying to get a big deer shot I did what I've played with before and tried to shoot tree branches way off as it is really a good test of your focus. Focus to infinity and adjust the focus of the scope as the 10 second clock ticks down. Trees don't move as often as 200" deer so it is better to practice on them.

I get from terrible to fair-to-middlin' but can't get to where shedy is.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/squirrel046/birds/DSC04296.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/squirrel046/birds/DSC04295.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

 

[SHEDYGAGA]

O_S_O_K_,
As far as adapters go, Swarovski makes a few that will work with your DSLR.

The TLS APO runs $500 and requires a T2 adapter ring for $30.
You will remove your camera lens and attach the TLS APO.

The TLS APO becomes your camera lens, and your adapter.

This is what I use. Its super slick, super easy to use. You can go from viewing to taking a pic in seconds.

This video will show you how easy it is.

The TLS APO is the easiest way to go. It removes one of the focus steps. You don't have to focus your camera ever. You just focus the spotting scope.

The other option is the Swarovski DCBII swing adapter.
This will require that you focus the camera lens, and the spotting scope. So, I do not prefer it.
But it will allow you to easily go from viewing to taking pics on your scope.

Or, as you have mentioned, the other option is to get the fixed lens, use the filter threads on the front of the lens, and attach via a slip ring.

Vortex makes an adapter for this as well. It comes with several filter thread sizes in the kit. It works pretty slick.

If I were a Swarovski user, I would go with the TLS APO without hesitation. It is the easiest, fastest, and most user friendly adapter out there.
It gets you hooked up to a DSLR lightning fast.

The only thing to know about the TLS APO is that if you use a full frame sensor, you wont get full sensor coverage with the TLS APO.
You will need to set your camera to APS-C mode and only use part of the sensor.

The TLS APO was designed to be used with the Micro 4/3rds sensor size.

Mine is an APS-C sensor size, and it works well, but on 70X magnification, I do get a slight black show around the corners because the sensor is bigger than the hole in the eye piece on 70X.
With a micro 4/3rds sensor, you will never get that at all. But, micro 4/3rds is not my sensor size of choice.

You aksed why the TLS APO would work better.
The reason is that it is always focused, you just adjust the scope. It comes on and off in a fraction of a second. and it gives you a full range of manual controls on your DSLR.

The only thing that you need to be aware of as a Nikon user is that some Nikon camera bodies will not work with the TLS APO.

Why? Its software.
The Electrical connections on the front of the camera body that line up with the connections on the back of the lens.

You know the ones I am talking about? They transfer the info from the lens to the camera and back and forth.

Some Nikon bodies will not work unless the body senses that a lens is attached.
The Adapter ring that you will be using does not have these electrical connections. So, when you attach the camera to the TLS APO, and turn it on, the camera sends out a signal, the lens sends nothing back, and the camera gives you an error that says, "attach a lens to the camera." It wont work until the body senses a lens.

To check this, simply remove your lens, then turn on your camera.
If the LCD screen works, and you can function the camera settings, you will be good to go with the TLS APO.

If you get an error and cant do anything, your camera wont work with the TLS APO.

Some of the Sony Alpha series cameras have a mode that can be selected that will allow the camera to work this way. If the error comes up, you simply adjust a setting in the menu that will allow the camera to function without sensing a lens.

Nikon may have this as well.

 

[SHEDYGAGA]

Oh Squirrel, you are hilarious!

I tried to call you last night. I guess you were out looking at deer. I will try again.

I feel your pain man.
as you have discovered, the traditional camera lens is WAY more fun.
They have auto focus, and they are built specifically to get the best results to the cameras sensor.

I went through all the same crap you are talking about.

Lets break it down.

The heavy, out of balance stuff.......

One thing that has made a huge difference is I switched to a gear head.

This makes it much easier to get on target and stay on target.
We all have fought a friction head. You adjust, twist the lock, and it settles!!!!! It always settles out of frame.
So, you play that game where you compensate and "lock low" hoping that when it settles, it settles in frame.

Digiscoping is frustrating enough. You don't need to fight your tripod and head as well.

I got the geared head and you drive it to the frame and the gears keep it there. It dos not drift and sag like friction heads do.

It makes a world of difference when re positioning the scope as well.

The fluid heads are smooth, but they require that the set up is balanced on the tripod.

Adding the camera to the scope then going back to no camera to view with makes the fluid heads less user friendly as well.

The best answer I can give you, for dealing with the balance issue is go geared.

You said, (and I love this!!!!!! I really love this one!!)

"focus is next to impossible auto focus is impossible, it just bounces around and will never allow you to take the shot."

I can help you with this one.

Ever notice how some guys wear glasses or contacts?
That's because everybody has eyes that are different. I sometimes take over a scope from a buddy, and hes been looking at a deer.
I have to adjust the focus because in focus to his eye is not in focus to my eye.

Ever wonder what the "camera's eye" thinks?
In focus to your eye, might not be in focus to the cameras processor.

So, if you focus your scope, then attach your camera, and try to use the cameras auto focus to focus on the scopes image, the camera is trying to focus on something that is not in focus.

This is the dual focus nightmare that digiscopers fight all the time.

Sometimes you get everything perfect, the light, the distance, the focus, and the image still comes out blurred.
This is because the cameras auto focus points are not able to find an area that they can focus on. Because the image coming from the scope is already out of focus to the "cameras eye".
Just like the scope is not in focus when I take over from a buddy.
I cant see clearly until I re adjust the focus.
The camera is trying to see clearly by focusing, but cant find focus, because the scope's manual focus is out of focus to the cameras processor.

I actually made a sample set of pics of this this summer. I had discovered this problem, and wanted to show why it is a problem, and a picture is worth a thousand words.

Remember, my camera lens is always in focus. I DO NOT have a focus feature on the lens I am using. It is always in focus. I only have to focus the scope.

I focused my scope to my eye. The eye doctor says I have 20/15 vision. So, I focused the scope on this flower.

Then, I simply slipped the camera into place and without re-focusing the scope, took a picture.

This is what I got.

This is what I saw with my eye, through the scope.

I saw perfect focus. My camera saw out of focus.
This may be what you are fighting.

The need to focus two things in harmony is a royal pain. Its the worst part of digiscoping.

If you see the bottom pic when you look through the scope, but your camera sees the top image, the camera is going to try and fail, and try and fail to auto focus on the scopes image.

What can you do?

Well, you have to look into your camera.
If there is an option to turn auto focus off, you will be doing all your focusing with the scope, using the LCD screens view.
Some point and shoots can turn the auto focus off.
DSLR cameras usually have an option on the lens, as well as an infinity focus setting.

But, as in O_S_O_K_'s situation, eliminating one of the focus steps all together, is best.

As you said, you usually end up focused on the sage brush in front of the deer.

Look at my sample pic. Whats in focus?
The tips of the flower in the foreground.
What does that tell you? It should say that we suffer from the same problem.

Your 200mm camera lens does a good job. Its lots more fun to use.
It just cant reach out there and fill the frame.

I know. I was looking at buying a 600mm Canon lens and a 1.4 teleconverter that would have cost me over $10,000.00

Sometimes I wished I had that set up. Auto focus, image stabilization, and a large opening gathering light are perfection.

You ever notice how most digiscoped images come out over exposed?
They have the areas of white really bright and blown out? The detail disappears from these areas, and the entire image looks washed out?

That's just the cameras processor trying to understand the scope.

Adjusting ISO and shutter speed can fix that.

Getting good focus is the real challenge with digiscoping.
If you can get good focus, we can fix the overexposure issue.

Your camera is already doing a pretty good job of dealing with the scope, in auto mode.

Don't give up man. We will get you there. It just may take some time.
You see some great deer. I want you to get frame filling shots of those big beauties.

 

[SHEDYGAGA]

I second the statement that your stuff is pretty dang good as it is.
You just may need a little tweaking here and there.

I still take some real crap images myself.
I try to post them as well as the good stuff. If a guy only posts his best stuff its not a real representation of digiscoping.

I get some shots that I don't like at all. Most of them are caused by lighting conditions, or other factors I cant control, but every now and then, I just get in a hurry and make stupid mistakes.

As to your statement, don't ever get old. I turn 40 this year.
I am getting there.

Your auto statement is interesting. You get good results with your point and shoot in auto. You are correct. The pushing of those tiny buttons on a point and shoot is terrible.
As you clearly know, the DSLR body makes that a ton easier.


Your comment about setting your speed and adjusting the F-stop leads me to believe that you will better understand this next bit. More than most.
One of the interesting phenomenon that I have found is that the processor on my camera wants to overexpose images like mad.

If I look at the LCD screen (live view), the image that I see as far as exposure is concerned, is not the image the sensor captures.

On the screen, it looks perfect, I can use the histogram to get everything perfectly balanced, take the picture, and guess what? It records completely overexposed.

I found a way to get around this. Its not convenient, but it works.
I set my ISO based on the conditions. Sunny, Cloudy, whatever.
Then I use the wheel to adjust shutter speed so that I can see the LCD image clearly.
I focus, then I use the wheel to adjust the shutter speed until the histogram is far left.
yes, I said FAR LEFT.
This does two things. It jumps my shutter speed up to capture a crisper image on moving animals, but it also fools the cameras processor and allows the sensor to capture an image that is not overexposed.

I will put up a couple examples.

So, this is what my histogram will look like when I am getting focused.

But, right before I take the pic, I will jump the shutter speed using the wheel, until the histogram is far left like this.

Yes, I know, the LCD screen blacks out and you cant really see what you are taking a pic of anymore.

But the resulting image is this.

Crazy huh?
Its the second worst thing about digiscoping, after the dual focus nightmare.

You gotta fool your cameras processor to allow the sensor to capture the correct exposure.

This is why I am full DSLR. So many adjustments. Phone cameras, and point and shoots are just not as user friendly.

Point and shoots are for sure better than the cell phones, due to the range of adjustments. The point and shoots just take a lot fo button pushing to get to where you want to be.

 

[SHEDYGAGA]

Hooked horn outfitters.
Sorry for hijacking your thread.
Hopefully all this is giving you something to think about.

You have the Vortex razor scope.
The vortex adapter that uses filter threads is a good option as long as the camera you choose has filter threads and has easily adjustable manual settings.

If you want to increase your quality, that adapter will attach a good camera to your scope, but the quality part will be up to you learning how to adjust the camera.

My stuff leaves a lot of room for improvement. I am not an expert in the field of digiscoping. Compare my stuff to one of these professional wildlife photographers stuff, and you will see, I am not that good.

I am however, working on it. I look at the Swarovski digiscoper of the year contest entries and I know I can get better.
I know it because other guys are doing it. I can too.

If you want to see some amazing digiscoped images, check this link out.
Sawro runs this contest every year. They just announced this years winners.
First place winners in each category.
http://www.digiscoperoftheyear.com/en/the-winners

And there are places 2-5 entries on this page.
http://www.digiscoperoftheyear.com/en/places-2-5

These guys who took these pics all went through the same crap we are going through.
But, if we figure it out, and get the lighting in our favor, and the heat waves are not distorting our stuff, we can be right there with these guys.

 

[Squirrel]

thanks shedy... I think... anyway I will have to digest all that for awhile and try to awaken some depleted brain cells from my college days. I remember Theresa Ligasheski like it was yesterday (she even looked good in red light) but some of those lectures are as blurry as my digiscoping shots on a bad day. The desire to do it is the most important thing though and for that I owe you. Funny how most stuff is solved above the shoulders, even if you are stupid not quitting goes a long ways!

I don't think you really hi-jacked at all, this is all part of it and to be honest it only is getting started when you sign the check for the toys, you still have to USE them.

 

[O_S_O_K]

Sheddy,

Thanks a ton for the info. This will probably save me hundred of dollars and a lot of headaches. I have the Nikon D7000 so I should be good on the sensor size. Not sure yet on the ability to use the Swaro lens you recommended but will figure it out. I am in the market for an additional camera body and this may push me in one direction over another based on the info you provided.

I second what Squirrel said, you didn't hijack this thread at all. In fact I think this thread will become a classic for those interested in digi-scoping at all. There is more info in this thread than about any where else you could find with hours and hours of research, trial and error, $ spent, etc...

Thanks again and maybe we can hook up sometime and you can show me a thing or two


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

 

[O_S_O_K]

Squirrel, thanks for the response and the great info. No better teacher than experience and your willingness to share yours has helped me a ton. Best of luck to you and can't wait to see more of your pics.


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

 

[_gloomis]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-13 AT 09:38AM (MST)[p]See post below

 

[_gloomis]

Any of you guys fooled around with the Nikon J1 hooked up to a spotting scope? I picked one up for a good price and am in the eary stages of learning the camera and ideal settings for digiscoping.

_gloomis

 

[Hookedhornoutfitters]

Thanks for all the advice. I have a nikon d5100 and I will try all of your suggestions. It is great to get some advice from someone that has is figured out.

 

[trophymuley]

I figured I would chime in here. I use my i phone5 through a Swarovski atx 95mm as others have said, farther images are not as clear but take the time to get in the ideal light contitions and distances and you can get some cool stuff. These were all taken through my scope with a homemade adapter and the "camera sharp" app which allows me to turn on my camera and take infinite pictures without touching the camera with a selected delay between shots.

low light

100 yards with bad heat waves

100 yards with no heat waves

650 yards in low light

30 yards in low light

100 yards in perfect conditions

200 yards

60 yards messing with camera

85 yards in bright conditions

15 yards

60 yards

200 yards

450 yards





"I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest
have been wasted"

 

[Infoman]

Where can I get a Gearhead? How much do they cost?

 

[SHEDYGAGA]

Trevor, I am glad you chimed in with that.
The thing about phone cameras is that they have a smaller range of adjustments,if they have any at all.
But, for cameras that do have adjustments, getting an app that makes control easier is nice.
I know the app for the phone skope adapter is pretty good if you play around with it.
They have come up with some pretty good dummy settings for different conditions.
It works pretty good for the limited adjustments that the cameras have.
Sound like the app you are using works pretty good as well.

Like I said, I don't care what you use, all the options and combinations have potential.
I actually think the I phone 5 has an amazing amount of adjustment.

Infoman, I like http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

 

[SHEDYGAGA]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-13 AT 07:03PM (MST)[p]_gloomis,
I have never played with this camera, but since you asked, I am trying to help.
I looked at a review done by Digital photography review.

Its an interesting camera. Looks like Nikon designed a sensor just for this camera, it requires a specific type of lens.

The good news, the lenses come with filter threads so the camera can be attached to several types of adapters.
Depends on what scope you are trying to hook up to.

3 of the 4 lenses that will fit that camera use a 40.5mm filter thread.

That 10mm pancake lens with an f2.8 looks very interesting.

As far as the amount of control and the ease of use, looks liek a decent ISO and shutter speed range, but the one down side that the review noted was
"Accurate manual focus is all but impossible due to low-quality magnification view"
I don't know for sure that this is what they are saying, but it sounds like this....

When you manual focus, it is helpful to magnify the LCD screen view. This blows up the image you are looking at and allows you to get a clearer image of what you are trying to focus on.
It sounds like the screen quality drops off when you do this.
Making it more difficult to get super sharp focus manually.

So, the thing would be, you would probably find that using the auto focus worked easier.
This would mean that you would be dealing with the dual focus issue we discussed earlier.

The only other thing about this camera is that the sensor is of an odd size.

Its the orange one.

This is another interesting thing that we have not really discussed.

What do you want to do with your pictures?

Are you looking for low res images for internet? Are you looking to make prints? Are you just looking for something to show your buddies on your phone as you pass it around?

What is the expected level of quality?

This will really help guys decide what they want to do as far as a camera.

If you want to display on the internet, standard internet resolution is 72 pixels per inch.

You don't need a lot of sensor size and pixels to get decent image quality for internet display.

If you want to make nice prints at a large size, you will want a much larger sensor, with a lot more pixels.

I have printed a few of my digiscoped images at a size of 20 inches tall by 30 inches wide at a PPI of 150 and they look incredible.

I have printed 16 inches by 20 inches 300 ppi, and 16 inches by 24 inches 200 ppi, with great results.

They hang on my walls with several professional photographers works and most people cant tell the difference.

It really depends on what your final application will be.

Technology is amazing, these processors can do some impressive stuff. But just take a look at medium format cameras and you will find that with all the technology in the world, there is not substitute for a large sensor.

That being said, that new Nikon sensor is still lots larger than many point and shoot sensors.

I encourage you to go to dpreview.com and read the review on that camera. Consider the digiscoping application and your desired use.

It may not be a bad choice for you.

Before I buy, I would go try one out and check out that manual focus magnification mode. See how bad it is in person.
It may be ok.

 

[trophymuley]

I really want to test out the new windows phone that supposedly has the best camera in a phone. Anyone have any experience with it?
"I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest
have been wasted"

 

[GLEDEASY]

This has been great info. A lot to take in and a lot that went over my head.

I played quite a bit this past fall trying to video/take pictures of wildlife. I am no tech genius, but reading this will give me some direction on where to start for improving the quality.

Thanks for the considerable amount of time this had to have taken to write up and explain.

 

[_gloomis]

Shedy, thanks for the response. I'll check out dpreview.com for additional information.

My main purpose is to be able to capture decent images for viewing online. I don't plan to print poster size photos however I would like the ability to print 8x10 or similar.

I'm looking at this camera due to its compact size with larger sensor than typical point and shoot camera's. I also like the filter threads which allows me to connect to my Viper spotter with their threaded adapters. I've only used it a couple times so I'm still experimenting with setting etc.

_gloomis

 

[trophymuley]

I had a bit more to add after the day was done for me Friday. I wanted to add in that depending in the angle you take a picture it can really determine the clarity. I have found that when you can take pictures with your light source(the sun) coming from your left or right instead of behind you or in front of you, you end up fighting less heat waves. I don't know exactly why this is but I always seem to get better clarity with my pictures with the sun slightly beind me and as far left or right as possible while keeping the light source behind me. I hope that makes sense. Here's a few examples. On days with bad heat waves
These pictures were taken facing east and west with the sun slightly behind me to my left and right

These are examples at the same distance but with the sun directly facing me and directly at my back

The camera was focused perfectly. The problem was the heat waves at these angles. Sometimes it's not always the focus and in those cases all you can do is change angles and find the sweet spot with the least amount of image interference.
"I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest
have been wasted"