Deer Numbers: Past to Present

[live_two_hunt]

I know its long. I'm sorry... Stick with me though...

First off, I'm NOT trying to get the "Oregon Sucks" kick going again. I'm pretty sure we all feel pretty much the same on that topic.... I just thought I would post some info that I personally found interesting, pertaining to Oregon's deer numbers and was wondering if anyone else has heard the same or similar.

A couple weeks ago, I had the opportunity to spend some time with a very knowledgeable co-worker of mine who was born and raised in South Eastern part of the state. We got to talking about deer numbers in Oregon, and I was kind of surprised with what he had to say...(I'll try to make this as brief as possible)

Back in the early 1900's there weren't really any deer in the trout creeks! (One of Oregon's "top" mule deer units, and there wasn't deer there to begin with!?) Ya, one could go weeks on end before finally finding a single deer. (MY ASSUMPTION is that most of SE Oregon was the same...?) It wasn't until after the sheep herders started settling the area, and doing some predator control to protect their flocks, that the mule deer started to take a hold in this part of the state. And as time went on, with more and more agriculture and relatively more and more predator control deer numbers began to grow.

Then along came 1080. The pesticide that worked miracles on coyotes and other predators... When 1080 was legal and used liberally, the dwindling predator populations allowed deer numbers sky-rocket over the next several years... And once the use of this pesticide was finally banned, predator populations began to re-establish themselves conversely effecting the deer numbers.

When the mule deer herds were at their peak in the 60's, many of the mule deer used to migrate clear out of Oregon, and some as far down as California to winter. However, with a generous number of doe tags being allocated to the public during this era many of the lead does that would lead the herds on this migration, were harvested. Lost with the lead does that were taken during their time, was this knowledge of these migrations; thereby causing our present day herds to winter right here in Oregon.

This just kinda made me realize how much of an impact predators alone have on our deer herds.... And also wonder how essential was that HISTORIC wintering ground to sustaining a healthy deer population?

 

[htnfool]

It's funny you wrote this post. I just got done reading about historic deer number in S.E Oregon.

You are correct with the timeline and how there numbers were virtually nil and then a big jump in the population about the early 1940's, peaking in the 60' and 70's.

I didn't read anything with a migration to California. I highly doubt that occured, especially from the trout creeks. Those deer can just go south to Nevada to find low elevations and winter ground. IF the lead doe was killed during a migration, which happens quite often. Other does in the group will take the lead. Remember they went that way when they were fawns. They remember.

I personally think E.Oregon is just in the cycle of things. Deer numbers will come back, give it another 5-10 years. Every body is screaming about it, the legal wheels work just as slow in the Fish and game world as they do in the capital arena.

 

[HKShooter]

I completely forgot about 1080. Great point. The herd I'm most familiar with was the Interstate herd, which did migrate to Cali through Klamath. On sundays we would go for a ride and count the herds. On our property at any one time there might be 200-300 muleys. We would go count multiple herds and most had 75+ muleys traveling together. I'm pretty sure that migration is non-existant now. Probably due to many factors...more fencing, more people, more preds, less winter range, poor long-term management, indians, poachers, you name it...

hntfool is right about it being a cycle. I just hope he is right about having respectable muley hunting in 5-10 years.

HK

 

[440sixpack]

Don't count on it, we haven't had a bad winterkill since 92-93 so what will cyle it up?

1080 was a great tool, so were hounds on lions, we lost both. there is no logic in saying a cycle will turn upside for no reason at all, cycles are based on habitat, weather and predation not the stars. if nothing else changes the only cycle you'll see will be downward when we do get another winterkill.

 

[bugle2me]

So does that mean if we get the predators in check our deer numbers will peak again in 40-60 years? I sure hope the government comes up with something to keep me alive and paying taxes for that long so I can see it!

 

[Jazz]

As stated the migration into California was from the Interstate Herd. On the Oregon side it originated basically from the Gearhart Wilderness area and south into NE California. There were two years of doe hunts in the 5,000 number range that I recall from my dad and grandfather. Many feel the herd has never recovered from that. There are still some studies that show deer that spend there summer and fall on the Oregon side still end up in California during November and December. Obviously not the same in magnitude. There was, as mentioned, a severe winter kill. Most of the deer and antelope died in the spring of '93. It is the only time I've ever seen individual animals under every juniper along Hwy. 39 from Tulelake to Alturas. Most lived through the winter and then died in March as they began to eat new green grasses and then couldn't digest it. It was truly a sad site to see and mostly deer, although many antelope died as well but not as visually close to the highway. There also used to be large numbers of does and small bucks that would migrate into California from Bryant Mtn. Most of those deer do not exist now due to predation and poor food quality. The area has quite a bit of private and it needs a good burn. So many of the deer actually stay on the California side now. In any case this doesn't tie to the Trout Creek issue but most of this should be very accurate on the migration issue.

 

[live_two_hunt]

Thanks for all the in-depth info!!! I'm learning a lot here, especially about the historic migrations. Interesting stuff! My personal opinion, is that the predator population is one of the main set-backs that our game herds currently face. I agree that we are in the cycle of things; however, I cannot foresee our deer herds making a SIGNIFICANT comeback without doing some serious predator work. Unfortunately, 1080 is never coming back. (Legally anyway)... And ODFW's hands are tied by the voters in this state when it comes to hunting with hounds.... On that note, however, I think we have to give ODFW props when it comes to these mule deer initiative units that they are implementing. In these units, they are cutting predator numbers WAY back, along with other things. Should be interesting to see the results... I imagine after three years or so one should see a noticeable difference. Not miraculous, but noticeable. I understand it's not going to fix all the problems, but its a step in the right direction anyway. Too bad the funding isn't there to do it on a statewide level annually... Rather, too bad we leave our game management decisions in the hands of the uneducated public...

 

[440sixpack]

Why do you say ODFW can't control the predators and then say in a couple untits they cut them WAY back? why did they sit on their thumbs for 15 years before attempting to do something other than hope for the best? I agree the vote in '94 tied their hands but the legistation allowing them to control lions for managment purposes using contract hunters has gone little used.

If the deer numbers we have today aren't in need of what you'd call managment is it going to take ESA listing to make it so? letting ODFW off the hook is how we got this far in the hole, lets start expecting more. so now it's our job as hunters to see to it the current petetions on bringing back hound hunting turn into law,if this fails you better start building points in other states if you like to hunt because hope doesn't seem to materialize into game animals.