Deer Hunting

D

dogwood

Guest
I just spent the last hour reading through the post 2011 hunt changes and I had this flashback and awful feeling of a conversation my dad and I had some 35 years ago. Let me explain, I am pushing 50 years old, hunting has been such a big part of most of my life, You all understand Im sure, it's a part of me. When I was 15 years old, the year before I could carry my own rifle, my dad and I were sitting on one of our favorite hillsides watch for deer. He told me that one day in my lifetime there might come a day when hunting would not be an option in my life anymore, I could not imagine that, As I sit here tonight, that memory flashback like a prophecy has come true I am afraid,
Many of you will remember the days, hunting was our life, we waited all year for the ?HUNT? it brought together friends and families, we had traditional hunting grounds we would all migrate to each year, our wives and children would come, we set up tents, wood stoves, straw beds and lots of blankets,
It was always such a great time, Often times there would be 20-30 hunters per camp, we planned drives, we hiked our buts off, we had our old 2 wheel drive trucks, and occasionally some one had a jeep. We shot lots of deer, but it was always for the meat, horns were a bonus, We stocked our freezers for the long
Winter months. There was never competition, we worked together, when someone killed a nice buck, we
Were all so excited for the guy who got it. We never asked the score, we rarely cared about the width of the rack, more often the first question asked was how much the deer weighed. We had some awesome big buck contests at Zinicks, Wolfs, and Sunset sports. It was such a wonderful time.
I never imagined what it would turn into, I thought my dad was crazy, we could never lose this, we loved it so much. But here we are in 2010, it has been 3 years since I have been able to draw a deer tag. All my good friends have give it up, My daughters who at one time where excited to hunt, have now lost interest because we can never draw a tag. In all the years of our marriage we have never had to by beef, We have raised our children on wild game, the last few years I have about quit eating meat because the meat you buy in the store has no comparison to some nice venison or elk meat.
Every once in awhile I get the urge to go to the old camp spots, I park the truck and close my eyes and dream of the days gone by. My heart aches like I have lost a good friend. I often walk the hills where we always seen many many deer, there gone now, not many left. The Divison of Wildlife has tried every sceme to try and make us believe its as good as ever. But for those of us with some time under our belt know the truth, Its not about the size of the horns, the B&C score, its about time spent afeild, with family and friends, Those are the memories I cherish, For you young guys that love to hunt, Don?t let it be about the horns, you will find nothing but frustration, jealousy, and envy. You hunt alone, your memories are yours alone, no one to share them with. Deer are few and far between.
Sorry to rant and rave a bit, but my sad day has come, my vision of what the hunt is about is over, to the next generation, I hope you can sit with your sons one day and share your feelings with him about your passion. I hope it won't be just for the few that can afford it. Hunting is still in my blood, but I am afraid its all memories now!
 
I think it is up to us to change it I am 41 when I was young I thought hunting was good but my dad would say it's not like it was when he was young hunting has been going down hill for along time so what we think is bad the young think it's not so bad we have to go to the rac meetings and voice our opinions. we can't leave it to them they don't know how it was and how it is. We need to get the cwmu program gone all the land owners that are making money on our animals will still keep doing what they are doing to make money so I don't see how giving them tags to make more money is right. we have to force the state to manage game on the public land we all have the power the public hunter is were the money is if we ban together we can have a powerfull voice. look at all the money hunting pust's in the comunity and the state.
just my 2 cents that don't by much anymore
 
Great post..
I know where you are coming from..
As I ride the hills with my kids now, I recall and tell them stories about animals I have seen around every bend we travel, and every time we pass a place I have harvested an animal, they get to (or have to) hear the story. There is always a "we used to camp here" or "when we camped over there", or some memory that comes back. I am also in my 50's and that makes for a ton of memories wherever we are...
Now looking back at the last 10 or so years, there are still great memories, but not the number of them from years ago when the whole crew was there....
It is tough to get a tag now days, but I pray that we never totally lose hunting forever....
Seems like I love to go just to get out and recall the old memories whether we find anything to harvest or not!
a*r
 
Great post dogwood,, i'm also pushin 50 and can relate to every word you wrote..
No amount of RAC mettings, F&G meetings, will ever bring back
the good ol simple days of hunting.
 
eyecrazy... how do you think eliminating the cwmu program would help?? all you do is eliminate the middle man and take 10% of all those tags away from people who apply for those tags. landowners will still charge a buttload for people to hunt their property. the cwmu is a good program.

i to miss the days when i was younger and im only 31. i have no family to hunt with. thats the biggest reason i offer to help any friend that draws a tag or anyone in need of help. not necessarily to help kill the largest animal, but to build memories thay cant be replaced with anything you can buy. there is no comparison between the two... ive even suckered people who dont hunt unto getting hunter safety done and start hunting just so i can build those memories.
 
Why at 50 do you feel hunting is over for you?

Is it the same as it used to be? Of course it is not.

10 people in camp are not going to have a tag. That is okay. The memories and the experiences can still be there.

I put each of my family in separately in hopes one of us draw. Then we go hunting and only the person that drew carries a gun. It is still a wonderful thing.

Need to be able to roll with the changes. I think it is our responsibility to install the love of hunting in our kids, not tell them it is over and that was the good old days.

Get them away from the GD TV, internet, and video games and make them experience something real.

Hope you can adjust the way you look at it.
 
yeah i hear ya. huntin' aint like it was back then thats for sure, but there are still ways to make lots of good memories. keep on keepin' on, and the hunt will live inside ya forever
 
I think the CWMU program is great and I am not a landowner or guide or in anyone benefit from the program. We waited for nine years and my 82 year old grandpa drew a CWMU deer tag and we had one of the greatest experiences of my lifetime. Treated first class, had the experience of ten lifetimes. It was unreal. Times change and it is just a fact. No matter the amount of money or changes bottom line the days of yester year are gone; period. I keep telling my friends that I grew up hunting deer and my kids will grow up hunting turkeys in Utah. It is what it is; no more no less. I have been on a lot of hunts without a tag and had a wonderful experience with family and friends. It is what you make it. We all like different things. You like wild game and and my house the only way wild game is getting in my house is in the way of jerky. Doesn't mean it is right or wrong but different strokes for different folks.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-10 AT 06:30PM (MST)[p]Thanks for the comments, I don't know why it struck me so hard, maybe because life is crusing by so quickly, I have been reliving all the great memories lately and I got a case of the blues I guess. I still love to hunt, I still crave to hunt, all I am saying is it will never be the same, Life has changed the last 20 years, It just makes me sad that such a wonderful event has gone from something that bonded families together, many wonderful memories made, to such a competative expensive sport, And yes I know I can still drive the the old camps, set up the tent, or the trailer, share wonderful expereinces with my family and I do. But everyone deserves those great times we had, even when the hunting sucked, the comradery was great, We had another family that camped close to us every year, it was awesome to renew the friendships each hunt, we all look so forward to it. Sorry for lamenting to much on here. But Im sure many of you can relate. God blessed us to live in a wonderful time. For those who feel the same passion now as we did then enjoy it to the fullest, share those experiences with someone close to you. Forget the competativeness and just enjoy the moment, before you know it, you'll be looking at the other side of 50 think what the crap happend to get me here so fast!! Thanks for letting me express so blue feelings, by the way I off to hunt spikes in the morning with the girls, I CANT WAIT, still just like a kid at christmas!
 
with cwmu the people that had private land to hunt don't anymore so they all have to hunt on public look around every piece of private is a cwmu so they can hunt from sept to january they kill more animals now then they ever did when they had to hunt their ground when we hunt the general season they might charge to hunt but it will not be as much as it is now they would have to cater to the guys with the tags not just the high dollar guy's
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-10 AT 09:05PM (MST)[p]I am near 60 and fondly remember "deer camp". Ours was a men's only right of passage. You had to be 8 years old to go. Seeing my dad drive away when I was 6 and 7 was tough. When the magic age of 8 arrived we got a new red jacket and were welcomed to deer camp. Uncle Mark would line up the new recruits and administer the deer hunters oath, which as near as I remember went something like this. Raise your right hand and repeat after me, "I solemnly swear that whatever ever happens at deer camp stays at deer camp, I wont tell mom about the drinking or swearing or later on when the dancing girls from Tabiona show up."
We shot 22's, drank orange soda and learned how to play poker.
When we were 16 we could carry our own gun and not just have dad let is shoot his deer when we were 14 or 15.
At least half of my uncles could care less if they had a tag or not. Uncle Russ hunted with us for 20 years and never shot a deer, I don't know if he was a bad shot, a poor hunter, or just didn't care. I don't know that having a tag or not made that much difference.
I think that today it is just a different type of society. When I was young we had Christmas and the deer hunt, those were the highlights of the year. Now there are so many other activities to compete with deer camp.
I don't know if deer hunting today is better or worse. In some ways a little of both. I agree it has become a more "hardcore" activity. We seem to kill bigger if not more deer now than then.
While the deer herd has issues, the other species are doing great. I just got back from my sons moose hunt and my friends goat hunt. When I was a kid there was no goat hunt, no buffalo hunt, no antelope hunt, very few moose and only 2 elk herds in the state, (Utah).
Are the old times really gone for good?
It is up to us to create that for ourselves.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-09-10 AT 10:32AM (MST)[p]Well put. I caught the last few of those years. We really enjoyed visiting different camps in the middle of the day and visting people and seeing who killed what. It was short lived for me.

The numbers have decreased and hunting got hijacked with special interests just like everything else in politics. It is hard to consistantly hunt with friends and family with all the different draws. I only know one family that still does a rifle hunt together. They draw every other year and don't mess with the draws. Same group, same place, just every other year now.

I think every generation gets a gift that is unique to that generation. I think that gift was deer/pheasant hunting for my dads generation. I struggle to find something else in Utah that I enjoy as much that the whole family will enjoy. I haven't found it. Spike elk hunting might be it, but it is a lot more demanding and harder for kids. (It will probably get changed in a couple of years anyway.) Fishing has largely gone the same path. Stripers maybe?

I'm just trying to adapt to new oportunities but can't find that deer hunt replacement.
 
In my opinion things have changed....some for the better, some not. I started going out with my dad, granpa & uncles 30 years ago at the age of 6. We pretty much just hunted muleys back then and there were plenty of them. Very few in our group passed up a legal buck so I guess they were considered "meat hunters". While the game was "appreciated" back then, they weren't "valued" like they are now. Men didn't seem to be as openly "conservation minded" as they are now.....perhaps because of an abundant resource that was taken for granted. Do I miss the days when you could drive up through the cedars and sage during deer season and see dozens if not hundreds of deer right from the truck window? Of course I do...to an extent. But not everything has gone by the wayside. I have 4 sons, the oldest of which will get to carry his first elk/deer tag next fall and I couldn't be more excited about his prospects in comparison to what mine were 22 years ago when I began hunting. Now he can hunt at age twelve whereas I had to wait until I was 14.re He has been accompanying me hunting off and on since he was 6. My next oldest boys are twins that just turned 6 and have already been out with me this fall. These are the generations that will inherit the benefits of our contributions now or be left to fix problems from our lack of contribution as well as outside influences. I have found a great hunting opportunities by being willing to work hard at it, be ingenuitive and thinking outside the box. Many of those opportunities are created for me by other hunters that are lazy and predictable or simply fail to adapt to changing circumstances. Greedy landowners or landowners that simply will not allow any hunting seem to be increasing in quantity. Since I currently am not in a financial situation to pay the exhorbitant fees or purchase my own hunting property and have adapted to that......by learning how to hunt the fringes and call elk off the provate land onto the public. We do it year after year now. The hardest thing for me to see is all the new "houses" being built in irreplaceable deer/elk winter range. Seems like all it takes is someone with money-bags for pockets and desire to build away from the crowds and a cycle is started. Mr. Money-bags plows a road up the mountain accompanied by at least an electrical utility line. Not long after, having had the way paved for them....a dozen other folks with slightly shallower pockets follow suit and build a dozen places up the mountain below mr. money-bags place and eventually crowd him out of his purchased solitude. After awhile mr. money-bags seeks out solitude once again, sells and starts the cycle elswhere. I have seen it happen to a number of places here in colorado. Human encroachment is probably the biggest threat to our colorado wildlife. But, next year I can still take my oldest and hike 5 miles up to the log where my dad killed his last bull before he died and expect one to come along for my boy within the first day or two......just like one did for me 22 years ago. Diffence is now that bull is just as likely to be a 6pt as it is a just-legal raghorn. And we will sit there on that log amongst dad's ashes and talk about the "good 'ol days" of past and plan excitedly for the new good days ahead. I plan on my legacy being one of optimism and enthusiasm......I think that is a much better thing to pass on to my boys.
 
dogwood,

100% in agreement. We have lost something- a big something, and it is much more than just the right to shoot a deer every year.

Many argue that the "good ole days" are gone for good. I think the reason they believe this is because it boils down to politics, and we live in a very different political world than we did 40 years ago.

I believe the physical elements of a thriving deer herd that made the "good ole days" possible are still viable, but it is the politics- driven by a corrupt research process, that prevent the application of some common sense that would return the deer herd to previous levels.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID6/20427.html

If there is any hope of seeing a thriving deer herd again in Utah, we have to change the direction of the current "wildlife sciences" mindset.

This mindset, although claiming to be based in science, is really a byproduct of the "Earth Worship" mentality. This mentality is based in the idea that Earth is a Godlike entity from which all things good flow, and man has done nothing but corrupt it. In this way of thinking, nothing man has every done has contributed to nature in any way- quite the opposite, everything man has done has been destructive to Earth.

The mentality of the "good ole days" was that maybe there are some things bigger than even Earth and that just maybe the efforts of man could have a positive influence. This mentality led to massive range improvement projects intended to increase the productivity of the ranges for cattle and sheep. The byproduct of these improvements was a thriving deer herd and the opportunities so many of us cherished.

But, today, grazing is the byword of the "wildlife sciences" and "all-natural" is the answer. Predictably, the results are the same as they were before settlement when historical accounts claim that to find a deer in many places in Utah, you had to get on a track and stick with it till you found the deer. Sounds about like what most deer hunters are experiencing this year.

Unfortunately, this "Earth Worship," "all-natural" mentality has invaded the hunting community. Many hunters are nothing more than camo clad earth worshipers.

There is no doubt in my mind that, if the political will was there, we could see the deer herds in Utah return to thriving levels. Unfortunately, it is often hunters who are our own worst enemies, because they have been convinced that the very things which made the "hay days" possible are the enemy.
 
let me ruffle some feathers....


my grandfather would shoot two deer every year. my father when he first started hunting shot two deer every year. everybody back then shot a bunch of deer. of course its not like it used to be. you shot all the deer. there were so many that shooting two(legally of course) was just fine. you could get a couple doe tags and a couple buck tags and have a great time out there. when there are lots of animals out there we tend to shoot all that we can and then complain that its not like what it used to be when we were kids.
 
travis,

If you honestly believe the situation our deer herds are in is because we shot too many deer in the "good ole days," you are ignoring the facts.

If that were true, the tag limitations of the last twenty years would have resulted in increased deer numbers, and they have not. The reality is we have been killing half the number of deer in the last twenty years, and we have seen nothing but declining deer numbers.
 
i honestly do believe that that plays a huge role in todays deer numbers. when things are good nobody worries. there are deer everywhere, so no real eminent need to strickyl manage them... everybody can have two or three tags and be successful. that mixed with less winter range, predators, winter kill, road kill and poaching, has severly impacted ungulate numbers in general.


with wolves on the way, an increase in cougar numbers, we are about to enter into what is calle d a predator pit.

a predator pit is a condition where to the ungulate numbers (an ungulate is a cloven toed animal, deer, elk, moose, bison, etc.) have no chance of recovery even if hunting is declined or even eliminated. idaho F&G cut tag numbers from over 2000 elk permits by 96% leaving somewhere in the ball park of 80-100 elk permits.(2000 in 1995 down 865 by the year 2004) and the elk nubers as we all know are still digressing.


so, to the above post which stated that i was ignoring the facts, i'm not. i'm considering all variables.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom