CWMU Shed Program

Ticks N Tines · Apr 28, 2010

How many of you would be interested in applying for a permit to shed hunt CWMU properties that have critical winter ranges (DLL, Ensign Ranches, ect). I'm just brainstorming here, and thinking of how we could start a program to allow some public permit holders onto some of these properties to look for sheds. Most of the owners and operators will say no, but if there's money to be made maybe they would go for it. $10 per app and 100 apps is still only $1000 and the DWR would want some of it for doing the draw and what not.
Anybody think this could work? It's worth a try to propose it I guess. Anybody that lives outside the Northern Region probably won't give a hoot, but for us locals it would be pretty sweet. Especially if your backyard looks like mine:

bonepicker · Apr 28, 2010

LAST EDITED ON Apr-28-10 AT 03:19PM (MST)[p]I think you could probably get people to pay 100-200 dollars for a permit if it's limited to 100-200 permits issued. Especially if there were no 4 wheelers allowed. (that would probably be necessary anyway to get the landowners on board) I know that many people are so stinkin sick of the crowds, I know I'd pay good money for a few weeks of horn hunting like it was 15 years ago.
It would need strict enforcement of an atv rule, arrrests for antler poaching and probably a limited season. I bet if there were 100 tags issued for $500 apiece, you'd probably run out of tags in the first few days.
Unfortunately, this still limits access for most people because of the cost but it would probably be necessary to get enough money to entice landowners to open their land. If you try to raise enough money through volume of people, you'll lose landowners (nobody wants 5,000-10,000 permits issued)

It seems like the other option that is more feasable would be to go to one of the big ranches with a group of 10 with everybody chipping in $100 and pay the ranch to hunt antlers for a week. Might work.

Or, buy your own ranch and let us all come hunt on it.

Ticks N Tines · Apr 28, 2010

Uhhh... I was thinking more like $25

The app fees are what would pay the DWR and then you may have a CWMU trespass fee of $25-$50 or whatever. To get a lot of people to apply you have to have a resonable app fee. I don't know many people that would pay $500 to go shed hunting.
I'm not sure DLL would be interested because they have scouts go pick up all thier antlers and give them back to the operators. Then they sell them and get the money for themselves. So basically the scouts get nothing out of it but some cool pics and the chance to set foot on Deseret (Which is actually pretty cool itself).
Other CWMUs like: Folley Ridge, Durst Mountain, Bally Watts, Jacobs Creek, Lone Tree Hollow, Skull Crack, Guildersleeve, Hell Canyon, Cedar Canyon, and TONS of others ahve great winter range ground and hold lots of sheds. I have watched deer and elk for several years on a lot of these properties. I remember along time ago on a CWMU Doe hunt (When they used to exsist), we shot a doe about 100 yards away and just between the truck and the doe, we saw 10 sheds laying on the ground. Most were old and broken, and we didn't keep any out of fear of getting busted. Some of these places never get shed hunted and when they do, it's usually just the lazy operators glassing from the roads or taking short hikes.
This would be a great opportunity if we could get the DWR and CWMUs on board. Unfortunatley, money will determine it all.

hunter_orange13 · Apr 28, 2010

I'd pay 25 bucks to shed hunt a CWMU, but probably not much more than that. Sounds like a good idea

bonepicker · Apr 28, 2010

Money is the key, but it probably is feasable for less than $500. The problem is that the DWR could get $500 for a full CMWU access permit to shed hunt (on all CMWUs), and probably sell a few hundred (mostly out of state people) But if they can get that, why settle for $25? And if it was open to anyone (no limit on permits) you'd have so many people that it wouldn't even be worth the $25. I can hunt for free and be surrounded by a million people, why pay for it?
Somehow you'd have to balance volume of people and cost of the permits.

Ticks N Tines · Apr 28, 2010

Yeah, I was for sure thinking about "Limiting" the permits. I would say no more than 20-30 permits depending on the acreage of winter range.
There has got to be a way to make this work.

TheOneRidgeRunner · Apr 28, 2010

OOH. I dont know about this idea, sure it would allow acess to private ground yet I belive it would lead to an all out money game for the DWR. I think once they see the numbers of people willing to hunt for antlers and pay money they would turn the whole state of Utah into a pay to shed hunt state, Once this starts it would also happen in other states where revenu is the name of the game. I vote -NO-, although I would love to shed hunt private property. I will pay a land owner before I pay the state anymore of my money!

Daxter · Apr 28, 2010

I think you are dreaming. The only reason private landowners enroll in the CWMU program is because they can't totally control the permit numbers and allocation and season dates for big game hunting on their lands. They have an incentive to enroll because it gives them control over the permits numbers, a longer season, and garunteed permits for their paying clients. They already have complete and total control over shed hunting on their ranches, so they would have zero incentive to enroll in a program that allowed for public access. If they wanted to sell tresspass permits for people to shed hunt on their land they would. Sounds really fun, but I don't see it happening.

Dax

southslope82 · Apr 28, 2010

I would do it in a heart beat. If it was 300$ so what I spend alot more than that driving to LE Areas shed hunting. Heck yeah someone push for it and you will have my support all the way.

evilroy250 · Apr 28, 2010

I agree with TheOneRidgeRunner.

one_dryboot · Apr 28, 2010

I think most cwmu's just want people kept off there ground. Most of the landowners dont need the money and dont want joe blow walking all over there land. They want it all to thereselves.

And It is much more rewarding to find an antler on 100% public land DIY! ha ha jk

RiverLover · Apr 30, 2010

I agree with theoneridgerunner also.

Ticks N Tines · Apr 30, 2010

Here's a email I got from a friend at the DWR:

Over the last couple of weeks the same thoughts have been running through my head. The Northern region has more than 60% of all CWMU's in the state because of all of the private land here. I have thought about bringing this up to some of the operators I know a little bit better and seeing what they would think about doing this very thing.

You stated probably the biggest reason for them not to do it is because someone is on the property during the spring. I can see the landowners themselves not wanting to cooperate with this. I don't know on places like Grass Valley, where there are leases on all the properties involved that the hunting lease that the operator has would cover him in allowing shed gathering access through the CWMU rule. His lease may be only for hunting and may not include the activity of shed hunting/gathering. My thinking is that if the lease agreement does not include shed collecting then those landowners would need to be contacted by the public to collect antlers. But each lease agreement may and can be different depending on what is being leased and for how long and access ......

The other concern I see coming is some of these areas due to such expansive acreage has many locked gates with different combos or keys in order to get into the place. I have personally had to make several calls to get through gates up there. And the CWMU's don't give those out just willy nilly. Many places and you named Deseret and Ensign hire or keep on their guides specifically to take the public hunters out so they don't get lost or trespass on other properties adjacent to them. Some people do not go through the extent or work of finding out who landowners are or how to access an area like you do. You and several of your buddies who spend the time to research can read a map and follow a road on it and use a GPS for more things than just a waypoint here and there. Those are the ones I think the operators would have concerns. I will think this over a little more and get back to you with some other thoughts next week. Overall it is a great idea but a CWMU charging $2000.00 and up for a deer voucher may have some fanatical shed hunters offer a whole lot more for just a few people. I really like the idea though.

Tree · Apr 30, 2010

On the right CWMU, I'd pay 500 bucks, but I can't think of one good reason that a landowner would let people shed hunt their property.

www.bowhuntersofutah.com

Ticks N Tines · Apr 30, 2010

Maybe there's an operator out there that has a heart

On second thought, nevermind.

slamdunk · May 4, 2010

I hate to be the one to steal the thunder from this idea, but it's just not going to happen, not on a few top notch properties that were mentioned. I now work on and have worked on some of the others and there's a reason they are private property.....they simply don't want people on their lands.
Deseret lets the boy scouts collect the elk sheds there and when i worked on Ensign, they asked us to NOT pick up sheds because the owners friends and family like to pick them up, i will have to assume that has not changed.
Not saying you couldn't get a few owners interested in a program.....good luck to you if you can get it going! ;-)

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]

Ticks N Tines · May 4, 2010

Yeah, this is what the DWR said:

"The operator puts together his lease agreement with each individual landowner for specific rights. He is mostly concerned about hunting rights and access to roads as needed. He will also put in a length of time of the contract. These operators do not include shed hunting in their contracts for one or more reasons. Mostly because they can't get all of the landowners to sign for it. The landowners want to pick up sheds or allow their family to or whom they want to do it. They could lease it out as well. So for these CWMU's you could ask the landowners if they would allow you access to hunt sheds. I also got the feeling that the operators would not even think about leasing it for shed hunting either due to access issues and wintering wildlife problems."

Well, it was worth a try I guess. I guess there really is no way to open up land in Northern Utah. It's just become a greedy hunting business up here.

one_dryboot · May 5, 2010

i don't think its greed i think its more about survival. some landowners barely make it and they need the cash that hunting brings. it won't hurt to ask the landowner for permission to shed hunt. but to open it to all the public wouldn't be a good idea. i know a few landowners up north that will let anyone on there ground all they have to do is ask. also they are more willing to let you if you offer something to them like picking trash, fix fence or just let them know your willing to help out a little bit. landowners would be more willing to give access if people would respect the ground but that doesn't happen so it ruins it for everyone. greed is not the reason

slamdunk · May 5, 2010

>i don't think its greed i
>think its more about survival.
> some landowners barely make
>it and they need the
>cash that hunting brings.
> it won't hurt
>to ask the landowner for
>permission to shed hunt. but
>to open it to all
>the public wouldn't be a
>good idea.
> i know a
>few landowners up north that
>will let anyone on there
>ground all they have to
>do is ask.
> also they are more
>willing to let you if
>you offer something to them
>like picking trash, fix fence
>or just let them know
>your willing to help out
>a little bit.
> landowners would be
>more willing to give access
>if people would respect the
>ground but that doesn't happen
>so it ruins it for
>everyone. greed is
>not the reason

Excellent comment ODB!
Your correct to think your chances to hunt sheds in solitaire are much better than as a public draw.
At least that way the lansowners still have a choice of who's on their land.
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]

Ticks N Tines · May 5, 2010

Good point.
Are you talking abou the "Landowners" or the "Operators"? I ahve called several "Operators" listed in the proclamation and they were all very quick to say no.

one_dryboot · May 6, 2010

ya i wouldn't even bother with the operator! go straight to the owner cuz most likely the operator only has the hunting rights. and even if the operator does not have the shed rights they won't tell you that. they will just say no and leave it at that.