CWMU question

B

BillyBoB

Active Member
Messages
903
I have been trying to find somewhere online where I can actually read hunters experiences and satisfaction ratings for specific CWMUs. Ive read quite a few threads and forums about certain CWMUs and how some are good and some are not so good. To me personally, I see some pros and cons to drawing a cwmu tag and would like to hear from or read about people's past experiences. Can anyone direct me or share a link to help me make a better decision about burning my points for deer?

I'd like to learn the details about these CWMUs. I've done a lot of research on odds and tag numbers etc.
Thanks for any input on this topic.






Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife, and the conservation of all our natural resources, are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall be exploited by the few against the interests of the majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural resources for the public as a whole, for the average man and the average woman who make up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of means."
 
I will bite. I have hunted a couple of what I think is a couple of the best CWMUs in the state. And what I found out it is all about the Money. If the Money guy that byes the tag wants the spific area, dates your just SOL! One such unit took us right out of the rut after telling us it would be ok to hunt the rut befor we put in. Also was told we would be giving the same amount of time as any limited hunt didn't happen. Something to think about depends on the unit. The money guy with 5 guides takes out the best bucks and bulls before you ever get to see the property. They get to scout it you don't. Just do your home work talk to the owners and you might have the best hunt of your life. I am not trying to down play them. It is what you make of it.

Rutnbuck
 
BillyBob, you have just made one of the best posts for advise here on MM that can be done. I have had many friends and co-workers draw CWMU tags for Elk, Deer and Antelope for a CWMU. I am sure there as some very good CWMU operators in this state! Buy, Far to many hunters have complaints about CWMU operators, but, there are two sides to every story also!! Right!! There are certain operators that have negative comments made about them for years, things like they show favortism towards the paid hunters!! But, honestly, with as much money that is exchanging hands!! Would you expect anything to be different!! With this being said, I do know of a certain CWMU operator in the Northern Region that I would trust to burn my Deer points with. I think he treats his state hunters, no different than his paid hunters. On a regular basis, year after year, he harvests Big Bucks that are better than the Deer taken off 75% of Utah's Limited Entry Deer Units. I think this operator would work with you in any way he can, within reason!! In my opinion, his CWMU operation is like a well oiled machine!! If I was in your shoes, Other than the Henry's Mtn area, The Paunsagaunt, I would want his tag!! Many of us live to far away from where we draw tags to give a really good effort to scout the area out!! Many of us with familes just dont have the free time or due to work also!! If you would consider a CWMU tag from a operator in the Northern Region, please post that you have interest. I would rather contact you in private, rather than throw out information that might insult or affend others here!! I am trying to be a little more considerate than some here. I at times, let my anger and frustration's get the best of me on this site at time's. I am only human!!
 
Shoot me a pm. I'm curious.
Is there not a website I can go to, to read experiences from other hunters?




PTheodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife, and the conservation of all our natural resources, are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall be exploited by the few against the interests of the majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural resources for the public as a whole, for the average man and the average woman who make up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of means."
 
They are all money grabbing whore mongers. Dont waste a single second even thinking about putting in for one, and definitely dont put in for the same one as me! ;-)




2a0fcsk.gif
 
>Shoot me a pm. I'm curious.
>
>Is there not a website I
>can go to, to read
>experiences from other hunters?
>
>
>
>
>PTheodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning conservation...
>"The movement for the conservation of
>wildlife, and the conservation of
>all our natural resources, are
>essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
>method."
>
>"We do not intend that our
>natural resources shall be exploited
>by the few against the
>interests of the majority. Our
>aim is to preserve our
>natural resources for the public
>as a whole, for the
>average man and the average
>woman who make up the
>body of the American people."
>
>
>"It is in our power...to preserve
>game..and to give reasonable opportunities
>for the exercise of the
>skill of the hunter,whether he
>is or is not a
>man of means."


To be honest with you BB. This web site right here might be the best source of information about CWMU Operators. Many hunters on this site have drawn tags with CWMU operator's, and when they have been mistreated in their eyes. People voice their opinion loudly here for all to see and read. Its their way to get a dig in. But, is their comments always fair,....maybe not, use your own judgement. There is always good and bad with everything!! No different with a CWMU tag!! Good hunting on private property, but you must play by their rules always!! I prefer to do things my way on public land. I dont like to be told when to come hunt, when to leave my hunt, where to go hunt!! Yes, I am alot a "REBEL"!!!
 
The best source of information on CWMU's is the Division website. Here is a link: http://wildlife.utah.gov/maps/public/list_cwmus.php

There is a "satisfaction index" as part of the description for each ranch. Not overly detailed, but a pretty good start.
Ranches do get dropped from the program due to bad behavior, but it does take time and is not a perfect process. It is government, so why expect perfection?

There are quality ranches that offer a great opportunity. Rarely will they offer a free guide, so you won't have all the "help" of their paying clients, but why should you? You are supposed to have free access to the ranch to hunt on your own for multiple days. Occasionally I have had to be a bit direct with operators demanding the access the permit guarantees, but only once have I had to contact the DWR for their intervention. The vast majority are reasonable and professional.
Just this year I had an experience on a CWMU cow hunt for my son, where the ranch employee who met us at the gate was less helpful than I have experienced on this ranch in the past. We are all human, and perhaps this hired hand was having a bad day. Either way, we were on the ranch, and had a pleasant and successful day hunting this private land. We would never have been on this large, corporate private land holding without the CWMU process.

Many of the complaints stem from unrealistic expectations of those drawing the tag. Of course the paying clients have guides - that is what they paid for. And the guides obviously know the property better than the average Joe. But hunting is hunting, and you never know what you will see in the field, and the guides aren't a guarantee either. Enjoy the access provided or don't participate. Or pony up the money and buy one of the guided hunts directly from the outfitter. Constantly complaining that anyone who buys their hunts / has more money/ etc., has better opportunity gets old. We could all (well, maybe not all) shoot better trophies with more time off, more money to buy tags, a better truck, a better rifle, better clothes....etc.

If you are hunting a public CWMU tag so you can shoot the biggest deer in the state, and brag about it to your friends, then you are on the wrong track to begin with. If you want to hunt carefully managed land with limited competition and an opportunity at less pressured animals than on most public land, you just might be a good fit for the public CWMU tags.

Bill
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-13 AT 02:05PM (MST)[p]I would add another sight to look at is any that publish the odds of drawing hunterstrailhead.com is one of them. Generally speaking, CWMUs that are hard to draw, meaning it will take 10+ points to draw are that way for a reason. Conversely, those that take few to no points to draw are also likely that way for a reason.

I have many emails from public hunters (good/positive and some not so good/negative) that I willing to send if i have an email request. [email protected]

Todd Black

Visit our YouTube page
http://www.youtube.com/user/bulls4bto?feature=mhum
 
8mmMag,
Your comments about why one might/should consider a CWMU tag hit the nail on the head for me. I sent you a PM.
 
>BillyBob, you have just made one
>of the best posts for
>advise here on MM that
>can be done. I have
>had many friends and co-workers
>draw CWMU tags for Elk,
>Deer and Antelope for a
>CWMU. I am sure there
>as some very good CWMU
>operators in this state! Buy,
>Far to many hunters have
>complaints about CWMU operators, but,
>there are two sides to
>every story also!! Right!! There
>are certain operators that have
>negative comments made about them
>for years, things like they
>show favortism towards the paid
>hunters!! But, honestly, with as
>much money that is exchanging
>hands!! Would you expect anything
>to be different!! With this
>being said, I do know
>of a certain CWMU operator
>in the Northern Region that
>I would trust to burn
>my Deer points with. I
>think he treats his state
>hunters, no different than his
>paid hunters. On a regular
>basis, year after year, he
>harvests Big Bucks that are
>better than the Deer taken
>off 75% of Utah's Limited
>Entry Deer Units. I think
>this operator would work with
>you in any way he
>can, within reason!! In my
>opinion, his CWMU operation is
>like a well oiled machine!!
>If I was in your
>shoes, Other than the Henry's
>Mtn area, The Paunsagaunt, I
>would want his tag!! Many
>of us live to far
>away from where we draw
>tags to give a really
>good effort to scout the
>area out!! Many of us
>with familes just dont have
>the free time or due
>to work also!! If you
>would consider a CWMU tag
>from a operator in the
>Northern Region, please post that
>you have interest. I would
>rather contact you in private,
>rather than throw out information
>that might insult or affend
>others here!! I am trying
>to be a little more
>considerate than some here. I
>at times, let my anger
>and frustration's get the best
>of me on this site
>at time's. I am only
>human!!

I am very interested. If you could send a PM that would be great.
 
Llamapacker
I've spent hours looking at all the info the dwr website has including the satisfaction index. However, there is ALOT of missing info on these CWMUs. I lost count of how many N/A's I saw. Animal age is rarely given. No stories to read.
Considering that some hunters wait 5+ years to hunt somewhere that might give them the opportunity they've been looking for sounds great. But let's get realistic, I want to feel comfortable applying for the unit I choose when I've invested in waiting so long. Especially when I'm willing to do all the homework necessary to feel good with my decision but the information I need isn't readily available. The CWMU operations didn't just start. They've been here for years. So why is it so hard to find an organized website that is available to all to post and read their hunting experiences with everyone involving their experiences in years past?
Also, how often is the info updated on the DWR website. Too many N/A's. so don't you think more people would apply if they had the info they need at their finger tips?
Plus, I will say that SOME of the CWMU units are not very accommodating to the public hunter. Wether it's no camping, no fires, no hunting on Sundays. Being told when you can hunt. Checking in and out. It's crazy to see how many rules there are.
There's just not enough pros and too many cons. Just my two cents.




Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife, and the conservation of all our natural resources, are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall be exploited by the few against the interests of the majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural resources for the public as a whole, for the average man and the average woman who make up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of means."
 
BillyBoB, The N/A's mean that there are no tags for the animal. They only put up the information for the tags that they get.
 
BillyBoB,
I listed the best resource I know of, I never said it was perfect. In fact I said it is only a starting point....

I'm not a CWMU operator or guide, just a regular hunter that has had mixed experiences on CWMU's, but mostly good. Even if there was someone willing to host a web site like you desire, I'm not sure you could believe all that was posted there. Perhaps you need to pick up the phone and talk to a few of the operators you think might offer great hunts for your valuable points. Don't be surprised when they don't feel like talking about hunting for hours with a non paying client, however. Just the way it is...

On the other hand, reading your concerns and perceived negatives, perhaps you are better off staying with public land, limited entry hunts. No one is forcing you to apply for a CWMU, and if you bring a bad attitude to the table before you apply you probably won't be satisfied after you draw, either. A CWMU tag is not a ticket to a magical hunt. You have to be willing to work with the outfitter/landowner to make the experience mutually beneficial. The entitlement attitude has never been a winner for me when dealing with strangers.
Bill
 
Thank you for listing the resources you know. I know it isn't perfect nor do I expect it to be. I just don't think it would be hard to add a few more details to their website. You're right. No one is forcing me to apply for them. However, all I was trying to point out is that more hunters might be more willing to apply if the details were there to research. I'm sure other hunters value their points just as much as myself. I have spoken to a few operators and they are only sometimes helpful.
I wouldn't propose having some questions, ideas, or concerns about this program as having a bad attitude.
If you'd feel free to share your mixed and good experiences involving any CWMUs, I'd willing to listen. After all, that's what I'm interested in finding out.
Thanks llama packer for your inputs.






Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife, and the conservation of all our natural resources, are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall be exploited by the few against the interests of the majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural resources for the public as a whole, for the average man and the average woman who make up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of means."
 
Bird man,
So even though they show public and private deer tags with your deer hunting dates and all, but they show an N/A for average deer age means they don't have deer tags?




Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife, and the conservation of all our natural resources, are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall be exploited by the few against the interests of the majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural resources for the public as a whole, for the average man and the average woman who make up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of means."
 
buyer beware..more bad than good CWMU's out there. no matter what our resident experts ($$$$) want to tell you


How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
BillyBoB,

If you have questions about specific operators feel free to send me a PM, or post on this site. I have posted in the past about several CWMU's, and don't hide what I have seen. I'll tell you what I have experienced, but your mileage may vary....

I've only had one CWMU age the harvested animals, and don't know where that information would come from for most operations. Few even see the animal I take, let alone ask for age data, which few hunters are qualified to provide. The same can be said for most public hunts in the state. Very limited age data is available on most units, although elk may be an exception.

The CWMU web site is a giant leap forward from where we were a few years ago. I would also like to see more info, especially the dates published for the public tag holders access. Some do this, but not all. There is a balancing act between requiring so much detail and paperwork and making the CWMU process beneficial to the property owner. Many "Joe Public" hunters want more detail and opportunity, but don't realize the commitment a landowner must make to enter the program. I may agree the pendulum could swing more in favor of the public, but it isn't real far from a balanced approach.

I've never owned or operated a CWMU, but have seen some of the hoops they jump through at commission meetings, etc. As a homeowner and businessman, however, I can appreciate the liability concerns, insurance, and manpower needs to allow public hunters on their property. And since this is access to the PUBLIC, they never know if the people drawing the tags are experienced hunters and conservationists, or your local gang banger with his first hunting license who needs his hand held and can hardly tell the difference between an elk and a deer. (Don't laugh, I once saw a guy from Miss. shoot a mule deer and claim he had shot the biggest elk on the mountain.) Of course you and I don't fit this mold, but if you've been around in the field long enough you have undoubtedly seen some crazy behavior from a small group of other hunters. All this just to say there are many considerations for a landowner before participating in this program, and it isn't all just easy profit as some apparently assume.
While not a popular position on MM, I believe the CWMU system benefits both the wildlife and the public hunters on balance in Utah. Improvements can be made, and some of the bad operators eliminated. Some of the good operations have already withdrawn due to what they perceive as over-regulation. The days of the family ranch in Utah are numbered in Utah, if not largely gone already. Large corporate ranches have little incentive to cater to the non-paying public, and we rely on their good will to even provide the necessary habitat for healthy wildlife populations. I've never shot a trophy buck or bull on any CWMU, but I've had some good hunts sprinkled with the occasional bad. Come to think of it, this is a lot like my hunts on public land....
Bill
 
BillyBoB, What it probably means is that no teeth were taken and that is what they use to determine the age. On deer as you know they do not require a tooth turned in on a CWMU. Therefore no data would be available.
 
I completely agree with your last post Llampacker.
I'll send you a PM




Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife, and the conservation of all our natural resources, are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall be exploited by the few against the interests of the majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural resources for the public as a whole, for the average man and the average woman who make up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of means."
 
Birdman,
I know they use teeth to determine age. Why don't they require the hunter to turn in a tooth for age data? Maybe too much money to do the research.
I counted 26 CWMU's that have an average age listed for deer. Theres approx. 120 CWMU's. Ages averaged anywherefrom 2 years old all the way to 9 years old. Some that showed age info don't even have deer tags. While others that do have deer tags don't give the info. So there is some consistency issues there.

I will have to contact the DWR and some of the operators and ask some questions.




Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife, and the conservation of all our natural resources, are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall be exploited by the few against the interests of the majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural resources for the public as a whole, for the average man and the average woman who make up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of means."
 
I think doing your due diligence is very important when it comes to applying for a CWMU. I recommend calling the operators and getting a good feel for who they are and the type of hunter/guide they are. I'd even ask for a list of hunters in the past. Maybe you can get that info...maybe not.

I've had mixed experiences as well these operators as well. Two have treated my dad and I really well and one did not.

I guess if you remember in the back of your head that they really DON'T have YOUR best interest at heart. You have to be okay with that.

On the other hand this is what they do for a living and they need to make money just like the rest of us. I'm not saying what they do is always right...just saying they operate to feed their families.

I think over all they are a good thing...there are just some bad eggs out there.

I think one of your best sources would be just to ask fellow hunters on this site and then call operators. You don't have to tell us exactly where you want to put in :) but ask about a few and go from there.

Good luck!!


"It is NEVER too late to become what you might have been!"

George Eliot
 

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