CWD plan to kill mature buck mule deer with late season hunts.

jm77

jm77

Long Time Member
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It's no secret now that 7 deer areas statewide are being targeted to begin removing mature mule deer bucks. Most of the areas are around Laramie and will have season dates ending mid November or Nov 30th. This is one of the strands of spaghetti that stuck on the wall at the G&F office.
 
jm77 said:
It's no secret now that 7 deer areas statewide are being targeted to begin removing mature mule deer bucks. Most of the areas are around Laramie and will have season dates ending mid November or Nov 30th. This is one of the strands of spaghetti that stuck on the wall at the G&F office.
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Yep I heard a fella went to one of the meetings with a power point presentation about why this is a bad idea and they pretty much treated him like an idiot which is exactly why theres no point in going to those things they are going to do what they want regardless
 
In this case these season changes have to have public approval or they can't move forward. Send your comments and attend the meetings!
 
And some of you were worried about NR hunters killing all your game. ???
Joking aside, this backwards thinking has been spreading through all government agencies. Remember a few years ago when a head California Fish and Game office’s picture of a mountain lion legally killed in Idaho hit the Internet? He was forced out due to the whinny liberals and California law not allowing mountain lion hunting. Makes no sense. Seems all the western states are having these problems. Game department are no longer ran by people who hunt also as they were in the old days.
 
What makes them think that hunters shooting random bucks that may, or may not be carrying CWD is going to have a positive outcome? Predators and hard winters have been culling the weak from the beginning of time. I’m not saying ignore the issue, but this is a prime example of the stupidity in every arm of government
 
Bookhead said:
Yep I heard a fella went to one of the meetings with a power point presentation about why this is a bad idea and they pretty much treated him like an idiot which is exactly why theres no point in going to those things they are going to do what they want regardless
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It was likely @jims and his info was all wrong.
 
Bookhead said:
Yep I heard a fella went to one of the meetings with a power point presentation about why this is a bad idea and they pretty much treated him like an idiot which is exactly why theres no point in going to those things they are going to do what they want regardless
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Sounds pretty similar to how NRs get treated in WY
 
It is absolute BS. It will not work and the net result is destruction of the resource.

I will be sure to send my letters against. In Colorado some of the outfitters have quit taking deer hunters because they can’t find a buck worth hunting… won’t be long for the same to happen here in WY.
 
elks96 said:
It is absolute BS. It will not work and the net result is destruction of the resource.

I will be sure to send my letters against. In Colorado some of the outfitters have quit taking deer hunters because they can’t find a buck worth hunting… won’t be long for the same to happen here in WY.
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There's still allot more big deer in Colorado then there is here ? if they quit because of that they just didn't want to try very hard
 
And most of the outfits here don't mind taking clients even if they can't find a buck worth hunting already
 
I don't think they are trying to eradicate the big buck population by giving out 25 tags either nothing they are doing really makes sense
 
Bookhead said:
I don't think they are trying to eradicate the big buck population by giving out 25 tags either nothing they are doing really makes sense
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These areas are general areas that already have been hunted prior to these late season tags. Imagine what happens when this goes on for ten years. Your own local area had the season increased to Oct 31st for how many years and now they have changed it back because what few good bucks there were are mostly gone, except on big refuges.
 
jm77 said:
These areas are general areas that already have been hunted prior to these late season tags. Imagine what happens when this goes on for ten years. Your own local area had the season increased to Oct 31st for how many years and now they have changed it back because what few good bucks there were are mostly gone, except on big refuges.
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No doubt it will hurt them. Hell 10 tags would but why drag it out if that's their goal
 
Bookhead said:
Only where they can take it. There isn't anywhere in this state that can
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Areas 74-77 are general with a combined total bucks harvested in 2020 of 192. Now add 100 late season tags on top of that and you do the math.
 
Bookhead said:
All I'm saying is it doesn't make any sense
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I've been told lately the herd would be ok with 6 bucks per 100 does. It's insanity, we were told in our MD Initiative meetings that bottom line was 11-13/100 buck/doe ratio was required to breed all does.

Do you think they are just looking for a way to add opportunity?
 
jm77 said:
I've been told lately the herd would be ok with 6 bucks per 100 does. It's insanity, we were told in our MD Initiative meetings that bottom line was 11-13/100 buck/doe ratio was required to breed all does.

Do you think they are just looking for a way to add opportunity?
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Could be a way to reduce some apps in the higher demand areas I don't know.
 
Until they actually have facts to back up their ideas I'm against any increase in harvest especially targeting older deer. There really is no facts about cwd they don't test live deer so they assume it's always fatal. They don't know how long its been around only when it was first detected. It can live in the dirt for 10 years so what is killing deer gonna do about it. Not **** that's what
 
From all my research the guys that actually know the most about it are the deer farms back east some of them have actually hired private scientists for their ranches and their research is ongoing and extensive
 
Keith Warren has a video interviewing one of the private labs its pretty interesting if cwd gets figured out my opinion is its gonna come from one of these labs not throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks at the mercy of an already declining mule deer population
 
Let's assume for a moment that G&F is right and reducing the buck/doe ratio to under 10/100 does reduces the prevalence of CWD. They are saying a ten year study. After 10 years of crappy hunting with lower buck numbers are they going to allow buck numbers to increase?

Will higher prevalence rates return with more bucks or the CWD magically goes away?

My point is they haven't a clue what's going to happen and along the way, they may seriously damage some deer herds.
 
Cwd won't go away they are going to have to find a way to cure it any deer that gets killed with cwd leaves that cwd on the landscape it doesn't dissappear with the deer that much is known
 
Bookhead said:
Cwd won't go away they are going to have to find a way to cure it any deer that gets killed with cwd leaves that cwd on the landscape it doesn't dissappear with the deer that much is known
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I seriously believe over time more animals will become resistant and not get it or survive longer. In their quest to "do something" the G&F is likely to shoot themselves in the foot for lack of a good crystal ball.
 
This deer had cwd. He was pretty old and very heavy bodied

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I do not believe this is a new disease I think it's been around as long as time it may cycle and we might be at a peak of that cycle but we might not as well they've only started looking for it and of course you're gonna find more of anything once you start looking for it
 
Bookhead said:
This deer had cwd. He was pretty old and very heavy bodied

View attachment 71615
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We haven't had a positive test or seen a waster around my place since 2008, granted we don't kill many mule deer, but the last two years my grandson took a 6 & 7 year old buck that were negative. On top of that, we do see waster elk around, one a year or so. The deer don't seem to have it anymore.
 
jm77 said:
We haven't had a positive test or seen a waster around my place since 2008, granted we don't kill many mule deer, but the last two years my grandson took a 6 & 7 year old buck that were negative. On top of that, we do see waster elk around, one a year or so. The deer don't seem to have it anymore.
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That one was west of town 3 years ago I think you'd have never known he had it killed another bigger buck in the same spot 2 years ago did not have it they looked the same
 


This video has some info on cwd starting in Colorado. True or not its something that has made some sort or sense
 
Ol Ted nails allot of good points in that video though. Collared doe living 18 years and having fawns having cwd the whole time yea I'd say it's probably not as serious as they'd like to make it
 
IF the going theory is that older deer are the target to limit CWD, then why not wipe them out this year, and end CWD? ONLY government does these time frame "plans".

They should put a 4x or better reg in place, and end CWD this year.

Otherwise, I agree with JM, they don't have a clue
 
I live smack dab in CWD-Grand Central in Colo where it all began. I can guarantee that late season dates and killing high % of bucks isn't going to do squat for CWD. CWD prions are in the soil for years and years. I can also guarantee the best thing for CWD is coyotes, mtn lions, and bears, etc killing the very few sick deer that exist! Predators do a fantastic job of killing the few truly sick deer in the highest CWD areas and leaving the healthy deer. Believe me, Wyo mule deer have a lot more to worry about than CWD!

I live in the hottest spot in the entire US for CWD and am out in the field with mule deer just about every day. I saw 1 sick deer around 20 years ago that I'm pretty sure had CWD. I'm sure a lot more deer around here die from getting hit by cars than CWD.

It's really the shits that the CPW started rifle rut season dates plus more tags here in Colo. It isn't going to do squat. Ask anyone in Colo that spends time in CWD areas if the slaughter of deer back in the 80's and 90's did anything to prevent the spread or cure the problem! Here in Colo hunters that have followed CWD are aware that the CWD excuse is only a ploy to generate more $ by selling more tags. It's been impossible to change the CPW's mind about this.

If I was a Wyo res I would do everything in my power to stop the nonsense! I thought Wyo was smarter about this than Colo but the new late season dates are literally stupid!
 
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hossblur said:
IF the going theory is that older deer are the target to limit CWD, then why not wipe them out this year, and end CWD? ONLY government does these time frame "plans".

They should put a 4x or better reg in place, and end CWD this year.

Otherwise, I agree with JM, they don't have a clue
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The managers have been very clear that their goal is to get rid of mature bucks to combat WD. It is a very clear goal, it was clear in NE colorado that was the goal, and now in WY they are reacting the prcoess.

As for deer quality in CO vs WY. The quality in Colorado is way down and getting worse. Last year the COw intentionally hammered the bigger bucks in the NW. they are still doing so, not to mention COW I. colorado killed and additional 3,000 doe in the NW corner of the state as well.

It is a horrible plan and the mangers had made this decision years ago and really do not care about public against the move.
 
jims said:
I live smack dab in CWD-Grand Central in Colo where it all began. I can guarantee that late season dates and killing high % of bucks isn't going to do squat for CWD. CWD prions are in the soil for years and years. I can also guarantee the best thing for CWD is coyotes, mtn lions, and bears, etc killing the very few sick deer that exist! Predators do a fantastic job of killing the few truly sick deer in the highest CWD areas and leaving the healthy deer. Believe me, Wyo mule deer have a lot more to worry about than CWD!

I live in the hottest spot in the entire US for CWD and am out in the field with mule deer just about every day. I saw 1 sick deer around 20 years ago that I'm pretty sure had CWD. I'm sure a lot more deer around here die from getting hit by cars than CWD.

It's really the shits that the CPW started rifle rut season dates plus more tags here in Colo. It isn't going to do squat. Ask anyone in Colo that spends time in CWD areas if the slaughter of deer back in the 80's and 90's did anything to prevent the spread or cure the problem! Here in Colo hunters that have followed CWD are aware that the CWD excuse is only a ploy to generate more $ by selling more tags. It's been impossible to change the CPW's mind about this.

If I was a Wyo res I would do everything in my power to stop the nonsense! I thought Wyo was smarter about this than Colo but the new late season dates are literally stupid!
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I only read the first line of your post where you said you live in the middle of CWD and it all makes perfect sense now.

CWD is transmissible to people but it’s clearly not fatal.

So what’s the big deal with CWD?
 
The managers have been very clear that their goal is to get rid of mature bucks to combat WD. It is a very clear goal, it was clear in NE colorado that was the goal, and now in WY they are reacting the prcoess.

As for deer quality in CO vs WY. The quality in Colorado is way down and getting
 
treedagain said:
I would like to have a 79 tag.
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I'm betting the Platte Valley mule deer folks told G&F to pound sand with a late proposal over there. They've been trying to build back that herd for a few years now and I would think their prevalence is not far behind the numbers over the mountain on our side but we shall see.
Talked with a landowner outside of Laramie that had no clue, he is not happy. Hoping some of the landowners show up for the meetings.
 
wytex said:
I'm betting the Platte Valley mule deer folks told G&F to pound sand with a late proposal over there. They've been trying to build back that herd for a few years now and I would think their prevalence is not far behind the numbers over the mountain on our side but we shall see.
Talked with a landowner outside of Laramie that had no clue, he is not happy. Hoping some of the landowners show up for the meetings.
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Didn't keep them from upping deer tag numbers over in the Platte. I'm sure it's to reduce buck numbers, and a bunch of BS.

Make areas lq when they may as well be general with the number of tags they're proposing.
 
It looks like antlered mule deer tags in the Platte Valley only went up in one unit and that was to get back to the same number issued prior to last year. That unit had the high number of hunters last year as always because many hunters that drew in 2020 were allowed to hunt in 2021 without drawing again. Those are the hunters that turned in their tags in 2020 due to the Mullen Fire.

This year in the other Platte Valley units the tags will stay the same or go down in number.

I do agree that there are way too many mule deer tags in the Platte Valley and there have been for awhile. Thankfully the new late hunts will not occur in the Platte Valley.
 
This is long, sorry.............

Most of the Platte Valley areas are also going to see the increases. 25 licenses for the entire month of November in many units.

I have so much info on this, and it goes way back. And it comes to the present. We have a CWD Task Force set up for the Laramie Range. The G&F actually cancelled the first meeting after about 10 minutes because we disagreed that having the only real speaker be the "expert" from Colorado was a good idea. It appears G&F is "pushing" the Task Force to support the Colorado "depopulation" model. The G&F then set a new meeting for April. That was also cancelled. Now they are bringing in a facilitator (likely Jessica) and we will start in May. It appears to be a ruse to get us to agree to the idea to eradicate the deer. Objective for the Laramie Range is 20,000 deer. At 10,000 now and the biologist told me they'd like to reduce it to 1,000 deer. That's 5% of objective and only 1,000 deer in the entire Laramie Range. Between predators, competition and other factors, it is doubtful the deer would recover in decades.

I knew Beth Williams pretty well. She basically "discovered" CWD and was great. Too bad she was taken so soon. I think she would have been a great asset in this issue. I can't repeat things she said to me in this forum, but I wish she was here and could speak.

(CAPS for emphasis).....

I've been watching the CWD debate and issue closely for 30+ years. I AM ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED THE DEER ARE GETTING SOME LEVEL OF GENETIC RESISTANCE TO CWD. After we have invested nearly 40 years of building disease resistance, the G&F is going to kill the older bucks that have not died from CWD and that apparently don't have the disease. And it;s likely that some of those bucks have genetic resistance. Killing them is dumb, dumb. That'll set us back another 40 years while we rebuild that genetic resistance. (There is elk research that documents resistance.) The question is... If 40% of the deer have CWD, then why on earth would we want to kill the 60% that do not have it?

I'm not sure how many on these forums are familiar with all of the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies. Bovines get "mad cow," sheep get scrapie and cervids (deer ) get CWD. (Humans get Crutzfeld-Jacob.) All allegedly caused by prions, which are folded proteins.

Scrapie was basically eliminated by working on the sheep genome. Google this if you are interested in how it was done, and done fairly quickly. If the alleles on codon 171 (if I remember correctly) both have RR then that animal is the "unicorn" that doesn't get scrapie. Researchers would test sheep by clipping a small part of the ear and checking genetics, and when they found rams with that RR genetic code on codon 171, they bred those rams to every ewe they could find. In a few years, the RR genetics became predominant and scrapie became more of a memory than a problem.

Genetics are the solution. We need the genome work completed, and it is being studied. And then we need the follow-up research to determine which genetic markers predict resistance to to CWD. I have been told that since the sheep research was completed about 20 years ago, it could be used as a viable "pattern" to work on deer.

But for some totally unexplained reason, our managers have decided to kill the deer that most likely have resistance and ignore the potential of the needed research.

I was in Carbon County yesterday and this morning. People there are very upset about this. I did not talk with one person who was supportive. One person was ambivalent, but most people were very upset and agitated.

I've hunted Colorado almost every year this century. The Colorado Parks and Wildlife crew is "depopulating" the deer in many units on the plains. I've hunted the plains the last 3 years. People are mad and the deer are gone. I also talk to hunters from out of state. This Colorado "depopulation" model has been tried in WI, IA and in Alberta and SK. Every single person I have talked to except Game and Fish employees says it is somewhere between a dismal failure and a total wreck. Everyone hates it.

As a side note, there is also some research and anecdotal information about mineral supplements and the suppression or elimination of CWD in those populations. It's too long to go into here, but suffice it to say that options other than "depopulation" exist.

Take the time to voice your opinion. Now might be our only chance for a whole generation of hunters. Send emails and go to meetings. Contact G&F Commissioners because they are the ones that actually make the decisions.

This is a bad management decision and a sad deal. For both the wildlife resource and for hunters or even people that just like to view a mature buck on the winter range. Makes my heart ache.
 
I can tell you that Oregon manages for 8 to 12 bucks to does, and the herd has not recovered from a very hard winter in 1992, that's right, 1992. What you end up with is 8 bucks per 100 does and 6 of those are spikes and forks. That is NOT a healthy deer herd and everyone complains now, but they don't want to lose their opportunity. Taking this model is not a model at all, go to meetings, write emails, stop them from killing mature bucks out of the herd, this is not a proven scientific method.

Rich
 
ICMDEER said:
This is long, sorry.............



Take the time to voice your opinion. Now might be our only chance for a whole generation of hunters. Send emails and go to meetings. Contact G&F Commissioners because they are the ones that actually make the decisions.

This is a bad management decision and a sad deal. For both the wildlife resource and for hunters or even people that just like to view a mature buck on the winter range. Makes my heart ache.
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Spot on with everything here, I also see the deer around my property showing no signs or testing positive since 2008.

Everyone who can must attend this Laramie meeting. If you are in Casper or elsewhere you can attend by Zoom, as I plan to, and give them your comments. They must have the public's approval to move forward with these seasons and I'm sure they won't hesitate if just a few comment.

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jm77 said:
Spot on with everything here, I also see the deer around my property showing no signs or testing positive since 2008.

Everyone who can must attend this Laramie meeting. If you are in Casper or elsewhere you can attend by Zoom, as I plan to, and give them your comments. They must have the public's approval to move forward with these seasons and I'm sure they won't hesitate if just a few comment.

Join our Cloud HD Video Meeting

Zoom is the leader in modern enterprise video communications, with an easy, reliable cloud platform for video and audio conferencing, chat, and webinars across mobile, desktop, and room systems. Zoom Rooms is the original software-based conference room solution used around the world in board...
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jm77... Just to clarify this will be the March 29th meeting? Correct?
 
I sure hope Wyo wakes up and doesn't follow in Colo's footsteps. Wyo can definitely learn from Colo's mistakes. I can pretty much guarantee that slaughtering and eliminating healthy bucks that may or may not have CWD isn't the answer. The CPW actually has no answer about healthy mature bucks that carry CWD. There are gobs of older age class bucks harvested every year that show no signs of CWD that have been shot by hunters.

Some of you have mentioned that harvesting a bunch of bucks in a short period of time will eliminate or slow the problem. This is pretty much hogwash since CWD prions stay in the soil for years upon years. Once these prions are in the soil that area will pretty much be stuck with CWD for years and years.

Colo tried to cull and totally eliminate all deer within CWD hotspots and this actually has done nothing to prevent the spread since the prions were still around even after deer were almost eliminated. As deer numbers have slowly increased in those CWD hotspots the same % of deer have CWD as prior to the culling projects. Culling virtually did nothing!

As I've been saying all along, 4 legged predators do a fine job of killing truly sick CWD deer and elk!
 
So I went to tonights meeting. Talked with a biologist about CWD. I threw some statements out and his response is Colorado had good luck with their approach and their rebound is good. Hmmmmmmmmmm

I talked about collared deer with cwd not having issues that have been watched for almost 18 years. He thinks that info is false

So basically we couldn't agree. I have to contact him tommrrow and i will eventually be having a meeting with another biologist To have a further discussion. I am not sold on cwd but they are huge believers in.

Meeting was focused on hunting seasons and my only other discussion was on a late season elk and some talk on sheep cuts in a specific area. Which after hearing and seeing in a side discussion i agree with those sheep tag cuts
 
At meeting Afton, I asked the District Supervisor if they find deer in the region that have died from CWD. He said no but that they do find them dead from CWD in central and SE Wyo. I then asked what the mortality rate is on CWD positive deer is. He said it’s 100% fatal. I asked how many CWD positive live deer they are currently monitoring for health. He said 0. He said they only test for CWD after the deer has died whether it was shot, hit by car or whatever ever. An eye roll was all it took for him to acknowledge that his 100% fatal comments was severely flawed. Ultimately he said we got to do something. I asked why and he had no answer.
 
Strange since they found a cwd positive deer in star valley ranch that the GF isn't looking to wipe out older age class bucks in region G with November buck hunting?

According to them, those deer are hosed...why the double standard?
 
There are gobs of live deer that get shot every year that get tested positive for cwd. These cwd positive tested bucks look 100% healthy before they are harvested. Many of these bucks are 5 to 7+ years old! That’s as long as many bucks are expected to live in a lot of areas! I call hogwash on the 100% lethal theory! They have no clue!

I don’t think there is a cwd test available while they are still alive to test their hypothesis that cwd is 100% fatal! How can they say this without having anything to prove this? In reality deer don’t live that long of lives even when healthy!

Let the predators kill the few truly sick ones that are in the herds!
 
Mulecreek, what you mentioned in your post in regard to the supervisors response is exactly what we hear from biologists in Colorado and elsewhere. They all say the same exact thing which has 0 backing to support their comments!

Keep up the good work and ask them the same revelant and tough questions! They have no proof that slaughtering/culling has any long term benefit to prions in the soil or preventing cwd spread and occurance.
 
BuzzH said:
Strange since they found a cwd positive deer in star valley ranch that the GF isn't looking to wipe out older age class bucks in region G with November buck hunting?

According to them, those deer are hosed...why the double standard?
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Give 'em time.

If this residents pick a gen deer region idea gains any traction and after a couple of years of those November buck hunts on your side of the state there wont be any gen units on that side anymore and every res hunter will be picking G and H. Wont take too much longer after that those go to LE and gen units are a thing of the past.

In the last couple of season setting meetings I have been to I have heard way too much "lets just try this and see how it works". I get it, I use that strategy at work all the time but its on things that can be undone. Too much of what they want to do cant be undone.
 
I found a study recently that was looking at specific alleles. They found that with different alleles, the deer had a major different results in life.

Under one allele set it was 2 years to death, a different set it was 4 years and with the best allele, there was over 5 years of life after infection. The fix, just like scrapie’s is in the genes… killing all the mature dominate bucks is certainly not the right way to procure the right genetics!!!.
 
elks96 said:
I found a study recently that was looking at specific alleles. They found that with different alleles, the deer had a major different results in life.

Under one allele set it was 2 years to death, a different set it was 4 years and with the best allele, there was over 5 years of life after infection. The fix, just like scrapie’s is in the genes… killing all the mature dominate bucks is certainly not the right way to procure the right genetics!!!.
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Guess you should of been in the meeting to tell them that cause they don't care just sat through it on zoom
 
elks96 said:
I found a study recently that was looking at specific alleles. They found that with different alleles, the deer had a major different results in life.

Under one allele set it was 2 years to death, a different set it was 4 years and with the best allele, there was over 5 years of life after infection. The fix, just like scrapie’s is in the genes… killing all the mature dominate bucks is certainly not the right way to procure the right genetics!!!.
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Yeah, the meeting was in Laramie tonight. Lee Knox got upset over comments and basically cut them off saying they'll come back to them later. Then brought up some habitat presentation after seasons were over, because they knew everyone would leave. He said "we're doing it, we HAVE to do something!"

I personally have never seen anything like that at a season setting meeting. No wonder no one goes to them.
 
Yep, forgone conclusion, those seasons are going to happen regardless of public comments.

All we need is 6 bucks per 100 does and we'll be just fine.

Between this grand idea, pounding pronghorn into oblivion after I told them 4-5 years ago they were hitting them too hard, and wanting to make unit 7 elk general...Wyoming can now be called South Montana.

Just like in Montana, we can't have nice things.
 
Had this idea a few days ago... haven't lived in wyo long enough for my opinion to matter imo but here is a thought...ranchers, hunters, etc apply for the tags... then don't hunt. Eat your tag. Anyone willing to do that?
 
Soccerdude said:
Had this idea a few days ago... haven't lived in wyo long enough for my opinion to matter imo but here is a thought...ranchers, hunters, etc apply for the tags... then don't hunt. Eat your tag. Anyone willing to do that?
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Already do it...and have been for a while.

Pathetic when you have to fund the GF, then practice management they wont.

Shouldn't be this way...I shouldn't have to apply for tags to throw them away.

Even when you tell them, after hunting the same places for decades, "hey back off on the tags, you're hitting them too hard"...5 years later things get to the point they slash pronghorn tags from 1100 to 400.

You can't reason with people that don't listen.
 
I was the one who asked why they were issuing doe tags in areas with already declining populations and his answer was because nonresident have already applied for them lmfao! Their deadline isn't till may 31st just like ours what a joke
 
Bookhead said:
I was the one who asked why they were issuing doe tags in areas with already declining populations and his answer was because nonresident have already applied for them lmfao! Their deadline isn't till may 31st just like ours what a joke
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I noticed that too...he was rattled from the second the meeting started.

His body language was telling...
 
So are there any other options to prevent the late seasons from happening?

Avoiding answering tough questions at a public meeting sounds like the red flags are flying? They have no reasonable answers to these questions. Why senselessly slaughter deer when you don't have answers to questions?

Plain and simple, "They don't have to do it!" There is no evidence that culling projects do anything other than delay the inevitable! Prions aren't going to magically disappear in the soil after culling projects. If prions are in the soil now they will be there for years and years! What happens 5 to 10+ years after late season hunts are terminated? You can be guaranteed the deer will pick up the same CWD prions in the soil but the deer population will be a fraction of what it was before culling. We already know that's the case in Colo where CWD has been around since the 80's!

Think about what happens with covid. A small chunk of humans died from covid. Mostly the elderly or those with complications died from covid. There are a heck of a lot of humans running around that had covid and have antibodies built up that will likely live healthy, long lives. If tested, these healthy humans have covid antibodies.

Who says the same thing isn't true with CWD? I really don't think there is enough known about CWD to say it is fatal in wild deer....and how many years after infection they will die. A deer's life in the wild is relatively short. If deer are stressed they may be more prone to dying from CWD or from a lot of different combination of factors.

A deer may be found dead with CWD but there may be other complications that aided in its death! The same thing is true with covid in humans. Many humans died when they had covid plus complications from other physical conditions. The death statistics claim the death was from covid when in reality it was from a combo of things.

I certainly hope the WG&F wakes up and stops this nonsense!
 
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jims said:
So are there any other options to prevent the late seasons from happening?

Avoiding answering tough questions at a public meeting sounds like the red flags are flying? They have no reasonable answers to these questions. Why senselessly slaughter deer when you don't have answers to questions?

Plain and simple, "They don't have to do it!" There is no evidence that culling projects do anything other than delay the inevitable! Prions aren't going to magically disappear in the soil after culling projects. If prions are in the soil now they will be there for years and years! What happens 5 to 10+ years after culling projects from late season hunts? You can be guaranteed the deer will pick up the same CWD prions in the soil but the deer population will be a fraction of what it was before culling. We already know that's the case in Colo where CWD has been around since the 80's!

Think about what happens with covid. A small chunk of humans died from covid. Mostly the elderly or those with complications died from covid. There are a heck of a lot of humans running around that had covid and have antibodies built up that will likely live healthy, long lives. If tested, these healthy humans have covid antibodies.

Who says the same thing isn't true with CWD? I really don't think there is enough known about CWD to say it is fatal in deer....and how many years after infection they will die. A deer's life in the wild is relatively short. If deer are stressed they may be more prone to dying from CWD or from a lot of different combination of factors. I'm certain predators pick off the sick and weakest CWD deer.

A deer may be found dead with CWD but there may be other complications that aided in its death! The same thing is true with covid in humans. Many humans died when they had covid plus complications from other physical conditions. The death statistics claim the death was from covid when in reality it was from a combo of things.

I certainly hope the WG&F wakes up and stops this nonsense!
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We agree on this
 
The meeting was a farce. The decision was made a long time ago by Lee Knox and Martin Hicks. They plan to kill mule deer in all areas in SE WY and will soon implement this elsewhere. The Zoom system was the worst I have ever used. I could not be heard, could not see the crowd and had some trouble hearing the speakers that were not G&F.

I lost my sound when the habitat stuff started. So I gave up. But they did not answer several of the questions I typed/asked, nor did they read the comments/questions I asked.

We are in a sad state of affairs. A lack of integrity and no real science to back decisions. Those are the G&F leaders. Sad, sad.

I'm open to suggestions if others want to continue to pursue this. But there's no use in trying to deal with the Laramie Region folks. We are dumb, they are all-knowing and we do not have any valid points or questions.
 
Bookhead said:
Guess you should of been in the meeting to tell them that cause they don't care just sat through it on zoom
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I am currently in TX otherwise I would have been at the meeting. They did the same crap in Colorado. They decided what they were going to do long before they ever had a public meeting.

It is laughable that they claim Colorado had really good results… The problem in Colorado is they still do not know what they are doing! The kill all the mature bucks move has not been proven at all. One thing we know for certain, the kill every deer we have method did nothing except destroy the herd and opportunity for 20 years and after 20 years infection rates are the same and the over all population is lower…
 
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ICMDEER said:
I'm open to suggestions if others want to continue to pursue this. But there's no use in trying to deal with the Laramie Region folks. We are dumb, they are all-knowing and we do not have any valid points or questions.
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I would say your best bet at this point is to try to attend the April Commission meeting and voice your thoughts in person.

Its interesting but at the two SS meetings I attended this year, both on the western side of the state where CWD is less of an issue, when asked about the plan for the other side of the state the G&F folks all seem to feel that this plan for killing more bucks is a proven and tested strategy and they seem to be in full support. Even with very little knowledge about the facts of the plan.
 
That Colorado Kool-Aid must taste really good because all of the Wyoming Game and Fish folks are drinking it like it is going out of style. Funny thing is about 10 years ago Martin Hicks said in a public meeting "This is Wyoming, NOT Colorado. Not Montana. We don't shoot mule deer in November in Wyoming. And as long as I am around, we will never shoot mule deer in November." Funny how things change.....
 
This 1:10 buck:doe ratio drives me nuts.

What is the actual birth rate for males? Way closer to 50% I imagine. And I doubt their mortality rate isn’t any higher either if you exclude human predation.

It takes a hell of a lot more than 5 dinks and a 4 year old to properly breed 100 does.

And yet 1:10 is unachievable so we shoot does.(n)
 
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ICMDEER said:
That Colorado Kool-Aid must taste really good because all of the Wyoming Game and Fish folks are drinking it like it is going out of style. Funny thing is about 10 years ago Martin Hicks said in a public meeting "This is Wyoming, NOT Colorado. Not Montana. We don't shoot mule deer in November in Wyoming. And as long as I am around, we will never shoot mule deer in November." Funny how things change.....
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They say a lot of contradictory bullshit...

Call them on it and you're the bad guy.
 
It's a pretty sad deal, they created these processes for public approval and when they don't get it they do whatever they want anyway and pretend like it's what the majority wants. It's not. It's what they think is best. Why have public meetings and ignore the public? Drives me crazy, it always has
 
jm77 said:
In this case these season changes have to have public approval or they can't move forward. Send your comments and attend the meetings!
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hmmm according to what buzz posted over on hunt talk it sounds like the season changes are going to happen
no matter what the public says , he's pretty irate over it
his opinion was they are going to implement the changes no matter what anyone else thinks what i want to know is when did wyoming start hiring montane's biologist
kill um all and start over sounds like a good plan to me
 

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