Cut deer tags!!!

[hossblur]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-19 AT 08:13PM (MST)[p]Well, here it is.


This is the post for all the "cut tags" guys.

I'm calling every one of you on your big yaps and no action.

So. To all you guys, heres your chance. Starting with Bess



Post up the screenshots of your 2020 apps that show you didn't put In for deer.

And.

If you do draw, we want the pic of your cut up 2020 tag the same day you get it mailed.


No excuses. No BS. Quit waiting for the DWR to admit to the problem you all think you have solved.

If tags need cutting. Get out the scissors.

Bess. Your #1. Post it up.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[Muleman1]

Crickets ?

 

[bigshotca]

I walked away from all my points does that count?

 

[ridgetops]

Is there really that big of a problem?
Maybe not, according to this post.
https://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID6/28090.html





see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_

 

[BillyBoB]

Someone please tell me Hoss was drunk when he posted this BS thread

Geezus!




"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt

 

[elkassassin]

Here We go Hoss!

I Done ZERO Damage To the PISS POOR Deer Herd of 2019!

I Don't Run any F'N Apps on my Phone,You Don't Believe Me?Just Ask BIGJOHN!

My 2019 Tag is in Perfect Shape other than some WEAR & TEAR!

But if it'd make you Feel better Hoss I could get the Scissors out!

I Could have Shot a 24" 4X4 PISSCUTTER the very Last Morning of Season that Most would have been Proud of but I Opted to Hold Out in Extremely Poor Hunting conditions/White-Out in Hopes of the Storm getting Mr Big to maybe move!

Problem is:

Mr Big Ain't there to move!

If it will make You Feel any Better Hoss!

I'll send the DWR the Money for a Worthless 2020 General Season Buck Tag!

Then I'll Have them send My Tag to You!

And You can cut it up if it makes you Feel Better!

But it'll take more than just My Tag being cut up to make a difference Hoss!

Best get the List started!

Hoss's Shhiitt List of Hunters on His New Management Plan:

1: bobcatbess!

2:

3:

4:

5:

Fill em in Hoss!

And when you get about 50,000 Deer Hunters Names on the List let us know!

I Thought I'd 'GAVE Some'?

But Now I've 'Gave All'

I Won't be PISSCUTTIN in 2020 because of Hoss!
















I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Vanilla]

A true American hero, cat. I tip my hat to ya!

 

[hossblur]

See. 6 posts in. Every One wants to CUT TAGS. Yet, everyone has an excuse why they won't cut this own tag.

Come on. Do you guys really need the government to hold your hand?

If it's right to cut tag, do what is right.

And don't give me the "I haven't killed anything" line. Your presence is pressure on deer.

No more weak azz excuses. You either believe what you preach, or you don't.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[Founder]

I don't think tags need to be cut up, what needs to happen is people need to lobby for more primitive type hunts and less high success rate hunts. Most of us who love to hunt don't want to quit, but we do want better quantity and quality.

I'd much rather hunt every year with lesser technology than cut my tag up 4 out of every 5 years in order to hunt with current technology every 5th year. But at the same time, I'm probably not going to voluntarily stop hunting thinking others will follow. Yeah, right. It's like doing the speed limit on the freeway, it doesn't convince others to also go the speed limit, they just fly by with a finger in the air at you for being the fool.

The game and fish will have to do something, which is unlikely at this point. Our lives revolve around making things easier, not harder. It's harder to harvest a deer at 100 yards than 600 yards.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!

 

[buckhorn]

Here?s my pledge to the cause:

As in many, many, many, years in the past.

My son and I will continue buying nonresident hunting licenses.

Continue applying for limited entry deer tags.

Continue buying general season preference points.

Continue not drawing any tags.

Continue not killing any of Utah?s deer.

 

[elkassassin]

>See. 6 posts in.
>Every One wants to CUT
>TAGS. Yet, everyone has
>an excuse why they won't
>cut this own tag.

Pay Attention Hoss!

Did You Read Post #5?

I Started a List!

It's Not a List To Cut Tags!

It's a List of Hunters that will Have Tags & They've decided to say F'it (I Ain't going Hunting!) because Hoss said that's how it should be!

I'm On the List!

What else you want?

You wanna Store My Guns at Your House so You'll be double sure I'm Not Hunting?

It (Your Plan!) Ain't gonna Happen Hoss Unless everybody Gives Some!

I'm Giving My Coveted Utah PISSCUTTER Tag Up!

Even Though I'm Still Buying it!

The Tag is F'N JUNK!

And Tell Me Hoss?

How many more besides Me are gonna turn their Tag over to you for a Scissor Job?






>
>Come on. Do you guys
>really need the government to
>hold your hand?
>
>If it's right to cut tag,
>do what is right.
>
>And don't give me the "I
>haven't killed anything" line.
>Your presence is pressure on
>deer.
>
>No more weak azz excuses.
>You either believe what you
>preach, or you don't.
>
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Elkslayer2015]

It's very hard to manage any animal if the feed isn't there

#1 Habitat is a key thing if the nutrients isn't in the feed you can't grow a herd plain an simple...

#2 mother nature/droughts have taken a toll in UTAH.

Another thing has came to my attention and this might have an effect on are deer herds

What big game has grown over the last 30 years with really no problems yup elk yeah the herds are growing and the deer are on the decline but does anyone think that this might have a effect on are deer herds also.


We have cut deer tags

1992 there was 228,747 hunters afield

1993 there was 146,008 afield

1994 they dropped it to 89,980 hunter afield then after that they brought it back up to roughly 100,000 hunter afield till 2002 and its been staying around 85,000 till 2019

So my question is why isn't are deer herd growing After seeing this I don't think cutting tags is going to help

I WAS ON BOARD WITH CUTTING TAGS BUT AFTER SEEING THIS I CHANGED MY MIND.

We have cut roughly 144,006 tags since 1992 we need to look more into it.

I feel the HABITAT needs strongly looked at.

Wildlife fences need's put up.

Predator control needs to be enforced.

 

[Vanilla]

Amen elkslayer. This is one thing I've mentioned to Bessy multiple times but I don't think he's paying attention. One thing that might be a very dark reality in all this is the BIGGEST contributors to things limiting our deer herd might actually be things we can't control.

We can keep cutting tags. And talking about SxS riders. Or say one can't wear camo. Or that you can't have a radio. When in reality none of those things means a darn thing to a mule deer.

I want to find out what matters to the mule deer, and address those things. If we can...

 

[hossblur]

>I don't think tags need to
>be cut up, what needs
>to happen is people need
>to lobby for more primitive
>type hunts and less high
>success rate hunts. Most of
>us who love to hunt
>don't want to quit, but
>we do want better quantity
>and quality.
>
>I'd much rather hunt every year
>with lesser technology than cut
>my tag up 4 out
>of every 5 years in
>order to hunt with current
>technology every 5th year. But
>at the same time, I'm
>probably not going to voluntarily
>stop hunting thinking others will
>follow. Yeah, right. It's like
>doing the speed limit on
>the freeway, it doesn't convince
>others to also go the
>speed limit, they just fly
>by with a finger in
>the air at you for
>being the fool.
>
>The game and fish will have
>to do something, which is
>unlikely at this point. Our
>lives revolve around making things
>easier, not harder. It's harder
>to harvest a deer at
>100 yards than 600 yards.
>
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!


YUUUUUPPPPP!

10000000% agrees.

This post is for the dudes who love to scream about tag cuts.


LEAD THE WAY!!

Notice. Not one tag cutter has pledged to cut up their tag. Meaning they want YOU to not have a tag.

In other words. YOU SHOULD SIT HOME.

Muley 73. Bess is # 1, he's spinning.

Your #2. Let's see that cut up tag


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[Tikka]

Blah blahnlahblah blahblahblablaa and some more blah blah...

anybody else here that too?

 

[elkassassin]

>Amen elkslayer. This is one thing
>I've mentioned to Bessy multiple
>times but I don't think
>he's paying attention. One thing
>that might be a very
>dark reality in all this
>is the BIGGEST contributors to
>things limiting our deer herd
>might actually be things we
>can't control.
>
>We can keep cutting tags. And
>talking about SxS riders. Or
>say one can't wear camo.
>Or that you can't have
>a radio. When in reality
>none of those things means
>a darn thing to a
>mule deer.
>
>I want to find out what
>matters to the mule deer,
>and address those things. If
>we can...

Get TF after it!

We're Listening!

You Want it all Fixed!

But You Don't wanna 'Give Some'!

I Gave My 2020 Deer Tag To Hoss!

What Have You 'Gave' Niller?











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[hornkiller]

You dont have to worry about me cutting a tag.

ut is done getting my non res general season money!

Piss poor deer numbers and yes I hate with a passion $$$$$$.F.W.

 

[grizzly]

I'd have to look up my report to be certain, but I don't think I've had a Utah deer tag in around 17 years. And don't plan to have one anytime soon.

I've always felt elk were more of an impact than people like to talk about. I spoke to the manager of a specific UDWR facility on Thursday that said as much; they keep deer from the remaining habitat at the most crucial times of winter and spring. He also said science shows it takes a 60% kill rate of coyotes to see a marked decrease in their population. I just don't see that as a realistic possibility for hunters to accomplish with guns, with or without the "bounty".

But to pretend the DWR has been "managing" deer herds according to science is laughable. Any monkey could keep repeating the same failing policy year after year with repeatable results. Let's try various options throughout the state and see if we can start seeing patterns of results. What they're doing isn't working.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

 

[GLEDEASY]

>It's very hard to manage any
>animal if the feed isn't
>there
>
>#1 Habitat is a key thing
>if the nutrients isn't in
>the feed you can't grow
>a herd plain an simple...
>
>
>#2 mother nature/droughts have taken a
>toll in UTAH.
>
>Another thing has came to my
>attention and this might have
>an effect on are deer
>herds
>
>What big game has grown over
>the last 30 years with
>really no problems yup elk
>yeah the herds are growing
>and the deer are on
>the decline but does anyone
>think that this might have
>a effect on are deer
>herds also.
>
>
>We have cut deer tags
>
> 1992 there was 228,747 hunters
>afield
>
> 1993 there was 146,008 afield
>
>
> 1994 they dropped it to
>89,980 hunter afield then after
>that they brought it back
>up to roughly 100,000 hunter
>afield till 2002 and its
>been staying around 85,000 till
>2019
>
>So my question is why isn't
>are deer herd growing After
>seeing this I don't think
>cutting tags is going to
>help
>
>I WAS ON BOARD WITH CUTTING
>TAGS BUT AFTER SEEING THIS
>I CHANGED MY MIND.
>
>We have cut roughly 144,006 tags
>since 1992 we need to
>look more into it.
>
>I feel the HABITAT needs strongly
>looked at.
>
>Wildlife fences need's put up.
>
>Predator control needs to be enforced.
>


+1

 

[Muley_73]

Hoss,
I've had LE deer tags the last two years. As for general...I currently have 9 points. So nothing spinning for me, other than the record playing circus music when I read one of your posts.

I've offered many many options as opposed to tag cuts but you're too gawd dam high on you're own vapors to notice.

It's always something with you, seriously, SFW, BHA, Tag Cuts, Private Land, Politics, Land grabs, ect ect ect. Good lord dude you are being shiiit on from every direction by someone or something. ???

 

[notdonhunting]

I finally heard a couple guys try to identify some problems (elkslayer & grizz)
You need to identify the illness before you can prescribe the treatment.

 

[hossblur]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-19 AT 10:26PM (MST)[p]So for the record.

Bess will #####, but he's drawing a tag.

Muley will also.
Which is interesting because he's all in for cutting tags. Just not his.


Funny how it's the deer savior as long as someone else does it.

I'm reading some nice stories, but in the end, the loudest voices HAVE ZERO intention to not try and hunt every year.


But guys like myself and Founder, us damn opportunists, we are the problem. Pay no attention to the guys saying so, are hunting deer year after year.

Some pretty good spin going on though.

Actions talk, BS walks.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[hossblur]

"Hoss, seed you gonna cut up your tag to save the mule deer?"


NO.


Look. It's not hard. No need for some story. Yes or no will suffice. Further I be happy to post my non cut up tag this year.

If your like Grizz, and you've sat out 17yrs, no need.

Others who hunt yearly, and play the lotto on top, i understand the need to try and explain the hypocrisy, but your still a hypocrite.

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[Muley_73]

Hoss,
You really have no idea whether I'll have a tag or not in Utah. More than likely I'll buy another point and hunt another state.

Like I said I have offered up many solutions rather than tag cuts. But you're not looking for actual solutions. You?re looking to internet arguing. Blah blah blah.

Blah Blah

Blah blah blah blah

Then....blah blah blah

SFW blah blah

BHA Blah

My grandfather blah blah

North Sanpete....blah blah blah

I'm pissed about this now...blah blah blah blah......blah blah blah.

Zero diffence in the end. An actual zero at the end of the day. Great idea Hoss, one of many you have. Another to add to the pile of nothing you stack up on MM.

 

[grizzly]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-19 AT 11:07PM (MST)[p]I guess I should add one piece to the subject. The reason I haven't had a Utah deer tag in nearly two decades isn't some philanthropic attempt to help the deer, it's because Utah is SOOOO poorly managed compared to the surrounding states that I'd rather pay the money and travel than deal with what's in my in backyard. So, yeah, the Utah deer problem is real and in that sense my lack of tags is my own sort of point-making, just in a different sort of way.

I truly feel anybody that doesn't see Utah's management as embarrassingly poor just hasn't hunted deer in Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, Nevada, or Arizona. Heck, I've even hunted in New Mexico and Montana and found it far better than Utah's and they're not considered good mule deer states.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-19 AT 11:35PM (MST)[p]Please everyone cut up your tag. Less people for my to have to deal with hunting.

 

[Muley_73]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-19 AT 11:40PM (MST)[p]Lmao, MM at its finest. A window to the thought process of the stewards of a dwindling resource.

800,000 plus to less than 300,000 and it's all about sore muscles and blisters.

Thunder why edit? Own what you say chief.

 

[elkassassin]

OK Niller!

See Post # 11?

Now before You get your Camo Underwear in a wad!

I Like Elkslayer2015!

But here's one thing I wanna say:

Yes Tags were Cut in 1993!

The Winter of 92-93 was the Worst on the Deer Herd I've ever seen!

I Could'of showed You Thousands,Yes I Said Thousands of Dead Deer that Died that Winter here on the South Slope!

Believe Me,If the DWR Cut that many Tags there was More than Reason for it!

But My How Quick We forget about that Winter,Most never Experienced it first Hand,it was Un-Believable and this is No Offense to ElkSlayer2015,I Surely Like Him!

What Really Pisses Me Off is the Deer That Year Were Pushed & Kept High that Year By who knows how many COW KILLER Hunters?

Then in one Night we got Several feet of Snow & the Amount of Deer Killed that Year was in Numbers Un-comprehend-able!

Then the Snow crusted hard & Coyotes Were Jumping on Deer in numbers like I'd never seen!

Yes,I Shot alot of Coyotes that Winter,But I Never scratched them!

Just Refreshing some Memories and letting others that don't/didn't know why Tag Numbers were Cut at that time!

So here's My Question to Niller:

With Weaponry of all types becoming more Effective by a Large percentage & More Shhiitt getting killed and Wounded and Not Recovered but Limping off & Dieing & Hunters Sayin F'it, I'll just shoot another animal or two or three,do You Not Think this doesn't Hurt/effect a Game Herd?

Again Niller!

You Don't wanna 'Give Some'!

You Think it's just gonna Fix itself?

GEEZUS!

I'm the First one to Give My Tag up!

Also the First to Get My ASS Chewed!

But that's OK!

It's the First time,NOT!

I've said this alot but I'll say it again!

You Boys Best Listen to what Lumpy & His Crew has been sayin for years!

But You Don't & Won't!

And that is SAD!

HINT Niller:

It'll Take some Major Changes to bring it Back!

Changes that You & Others will Never Vote for!

So Keep Huntin Your PISSCUTTERS & When a 2-Point becomes Big, Parade that Lil F'R Around Town like He's some kind of GAWD-DAMNED Trophy!






















I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-19 AT 02:08AM (MST)[p]>Amen elkslayer. This is one thing
>I've mentioned to Bessy multiple
>times but I don't think
>he's paying attention. One thing
>that might be a very
>dark reality in all this
>is the BIGGEST contributors to
>things limiting our deer herd
>might actually be things we
>can't control.
>
>We can keep cutting tags. And
>talking about SxS riders. Or
>say one can't wear camo.
>Or that you can't have
>a radio. When in reality
>none of those things means
>a darn thing to a
>mule deer.
>
>I want to find out what
>matters to the mule deer,
>and address those things. If
>we can...

Hey Niller!

Shows Me You Don't Have a F'N Clue of what happened to Our Deer in the Winter of 92-93!

UN-F'N-BELIEVABLE!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[hossblur]

>Hoss,
>You really have no idea whether
>I'll have a tag or
>not in Utah. More
>than likely I'll buy another
>point and hunt another state.
>
>
>Like I said I have offered
>up many solutions rather than
>tag cuts. But you're not
>looking for actual solutions. You?re
>looking to internet arguing.
>Blah blah blah.
>
>Blah Blah
>
>Blah blah blah blah
>
>Then....blah blah blah
>
>SFW blah blah
>
>BHA Blah
>
>My grandfather blah blah
>
>North Sanpete....blah blah blah
>
>I'm pissed about this now...blah blah
>blah blah......blah blah blah.
>
>Zero diffence in the end.
>An actual zero at the
>end of the day.
>Great idea Hoss, one of
>many you have. Another
>to add to the pile
>of nothing you stack up
>on MM.


Just keep trying to dirty the water. Keep trying to misdirect.

No one ever said you didn't offer up other points.


But let's not pretend your NOT one of the biggest advocates in here for tag cuts. Trying to spin out of that is dishonest.


Fact is, notice the guys that cone into this one who are NOT for tag cuts simply say so.

The guys who ARE pushing it, each have a twist, a story, an attack on me, whatever.

BUT non will commit.


The point being. We ain't gonna get to a solution as long as we have the tag cutters wasting everyone's time. Your not serious, so shut up and go to another possible solution.

Like I keep saying. Actions talk, BS walks. You tag cutters, hunting deer instead of sitting home cutting your own tag, as B.S..




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

We all know we have a deer problem and yes the harsh winters in early 90 had killed off a lot of deer I remember that they cut 144,000 tags and we should of bounced back but we haven't the real reason why we haven't grown is HABITAT AND DROUGHTS....

This is why they are coming down in to towns and city and staying on private land habitat isn't there....





The 2013 post-season population estimate for mule deer in Utah was 332,900 deer; 79% of the
long term management objective of 425,400 deer. Since the large decline during winter 1992?
1993, the deer herd has shown an increasing trend (Figure 3). The population had good growth
during the mid-late 1990s, but then declined during the severe drought years from 2000 to 2003
when fawn production was reduced (Figure 4). The harsh winters in northern Utah in 2007-2008
and in southern Utah in 2009-2010 lowered adult and fawn survival and also caused population
declines. Despite of those weather events, the deer population in Utah has grown at an average
rate of 1.6%, over the past 20 years and is now at a level not seen since 1992.Deer habitats are classified into three main categories based on season of use: winter, summer
and transitional. Deer use high quality forage during the spring and early summer to aid in fat
and protein deposition (Cook et. al. 2013). The higher the quality of spring and summer forage,
the better the antler growth in bucks, the better does are prepared for lactation and estrus, and the
more fat reserves deer can build up for use during winter. High quality forage on winter range
helps slow the rate of decline of the accumulated fat reserves, and helps deer survive harsh
winters. The size and condition of mule deer populations are primarily determined by the
quantity and quality of these habitats as they provide the necessary nutrition to sustain deer
throughout the year. Lack of quality habitat has been associated with decreased survival and
recruitment of fawns, increased age at first reproduction, decreased reproductive output, and
decreased survival by adults (Monteith et. al. 2014).
Loss and degradation of habitat are thought to be the main reasons for mule deer population
declines in western North America over the last few decades (Workman and Low 1976,
WAFWA 2003). Crucial mule deer habitat is continuously being lost in many parts of Utah and
severely fragmented in others due to human population expansion, development, and natural
events. For purposes of this plan, crucial mule deer habitat is defined as habitat essential to the
life history requirements of mule deer. Continued degradation and loss of crucial habitat will
lead to significant declines in carrying capacity and/or numbers of mule deer.

 

[elkassassin]

I'd add HARSH Winters to the List as Well ElkSlayer2015!

We Don't get them too often but when they hit they take their Toll on the Deer!

So Here's My Question for Niller & Hoss:

When a Hard Winter Wipes out alot of Our Deer?

Do We Cut Tags?

Or do We Rely on 5 out of 93,000 Hunters to Police their selves so You Can Cut 5 Tags up?

Post em Up Boys!

I Think You Two Either Forgot about what that Winter did to Our Deer Herd or maybe you never seen it?

HELL-F'N-RIGHT!!!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[hossblur]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-19 AT 07:25AM (MST)[p]
We all know we have a deer problem and yes the harsh winters in early 90 had killed off a lot of deer I remember that they cut 144,000 tags and we should of bounced back but we haven't the real reason why we haven't grown is HABITAT AND DROUGHTS.... Elk


C'mon elk, don't point out facts. The Golden Age of mule deer was right after we CUT TAGS. The deer blackened the sky, 30" buck were passed on because they were too small. We doubled the herd size. Cutting tags was magical.

Elk keeps pointing out the obvious. The literature points out the obvious. The science points out the obvious.


But, all that is done by dudes who study, and know stuff. And they are biased by $$$(cuz we all know the pathway to riches is as a wildlife biologist)


CUT TAGS. It doesnt work, it didn't work,but dudes need a bumper sticker answer. Plus Don Peay did it an we all know neither he nor $fw have a bias.





This post is still here. And I'll bring it back when tags get mailed for the "leaders" to show the way and prove their idea works.

 

[elkassassin]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-19
>AT 07:25?AM (MST)
>
>
>We all know we have a
>deer problem and yes the
>harsh winters in early 90
>had killed off a lot
>of deer I remember that
>they cut 144,000 tags and
>we should of bounced back
>but we haven't the real
>reason why we haven't grown
>is HABITAT AND DROUGHTS.... Elk
>
>
>
>C'mon elk, don't point out facts.
> The Golden Age of
>mule deer was right after
>we CUT TAGS. The
>deer blackened the sky, 30"
>buck were passed on because
>they were too small.
>We doubled the herd size.
> Cutting tags was magical.
>
>
>Elk keeps pointing out the obvious.
> The literature points out
>the obvious. The science
>points out the obvious.
>
>
>But, all that is done by
>dudes who study, and know
>stuff. And they are
>biased by $$$(cuz we all
>know the pathway to riches
>is as a wildlife biologist)
>
>
>
>CUT TAGS. It doesnt work,
>it didn't work,but dudes need
>a bumper sticker answer.
>Plus Don Peay did it
>an we all know neither
>he nor $fw have a
>bias.
>
>
>
>
>
>This post is still here.
>And I'll bring it back
>when tags get mailed for
>the "leaders" to show the
>way and prove their idea
>works.

Hey Hoss?

How Many Snips with the Scissors you plan on making?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Elkslayer2015]

hossblur If your referring to me yeah it bounced back not because of cutting tags but because we had a lot of good habitat growth and nutrients in the feed then it went on a decline do to drought and habitat problems like I said cutting tags wont help.

 

[Cass]

Cut the tags, take scopes off the muzzleloaders, leave rifles the way they are but cut the tags. Theres always been herds of hunters on the rifle deer hunt. Every unit in utah has the potential of the henries IMO. Utah just needs to learn how to manage its deer herds plain and simple. It all starts at the top.




-Cass

 

[hossblur]

Zero.

One word answer

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[hossblur]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-19 AT 08:18AM (MST)[p]>hossblur If your referring to me
>yeah it bounced back not
>because of cutting tags but
>because we had a lot
>of good habitat growth and
>nutrients in the feed then
>it went on a decline
>do to drought and habitat
>problems like I said cutting
>tags wont help.


I am. You keep repeating facts and science back to guys who prefer easy 2 word answers.

Some of the issues is your talking to guys who have heard all the stories of the 60's and 70's, but weren't hunti v in the 90's so all they know is stories.

Nothing happened after we CUT TAGS. Nothing.

1.6% increase proves it. Had cutting tags worked there would have been an explosion on a growth chart when we CUT 2/3 of our tags. There wasn't.

But. It easy. It's a way to point a finger. It's a way to lay blame. It's a bumper sticker.

Long term habitat improvements, drought reduction, adjustments due to climate change, and aging forests, as well as aspen the off, sage land aging. Evolutionarily weak species, poor competitor. No one has a bumper big enough to but that sticker on.

Science ain't sexy. And guys can't elevate themselves over others by squealing CUT TAGS for oppurtunists, by using it.

Every post you've made is correct.

My point is simply to call BS on the dudes who spew the bumper sticker.

Notice. None are committing yet




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[hossblur]

>Cut the tags, take scopes off
>the muzzleloaders, leave rifles the
>way they are but cut
>the tags. Theres always been
>herds of hunters on the
>rifle deer hunt. Every unit
>in utah has the potential
>of the henries IMO. Utah
>just needs to learn how
>to manage its deer herds
>plain and simple. It all
>starts at the top.
>
>
>
>
>-Cass


Should we not notice the Henry were completely closed? Or that is tightly controlled? Or that even it, is regressing?

Your solution is shut down deer hunting in Utah 5 years? Then cut tags 95%?



So. Just to be clear. Bankrupt the DWR. Bankrupt the sporting goods stores. Destroy the rural economies. Force Cabelas Scheels, Sportsmans warehouse to retreat from the state. Give up any clout we have left in the state legislature. CUT out about 75,0000-80,000 hunters.

Then we can have trophy hunting in Utah in 2026?


Good plan!??????




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[Muley_73]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-19 AT 08:36AM (MST)[p]Hoss,
Action? Are you serious??? Come on let's get real. What have I and my entire family really supported on the front lines for 40 years? Is it tag cuts? No it healthier herds. Tag cuts are just one way in extreme situations when the state refuses to properly manage a dwindling resource. I've offered up many solutions that could in the end increase tags. But you continue to play the role of a fool and focus in on one thing instead of actually trying to make a difference.
Wheels are turning again. Napkin meetings are happening again. State Reps are sitting down with those sportsman again at the coffee shops. You have no idea becasue you've never been in that world. You?re too busy squawking here and complaining and fingers pointing at individuals rather than focusing on a solutions to help your herds. Your solution is not directed at helping the deer herd it's meant to call out individuals you disagree with bottom line. It's not noble or a solution is just you being a clown. The deer herd could bounce back to 800,000 and tags could increase by 100,000 and you'd find something else to stand in the town square and yell about. This is not about tags or deer numbers it's about you and getting attention. Shame on me for stopping to engage.

 

[Muley_73]

The truth about tag cuts is they were not cut enough in some areas or not cut properly. The state was still being blanket managed and not managed properly for each unit. Hunters were still allowed to focus in on hot spots and shoot those areas out before other units had a chance to recover. If you don't finish an antibiotic all they way you run the risk of causing more problems than if you'd have never started the meds. It's mamagment has never been all in on what truly benefits the deer herd. They have based it on the social aspect ahead of the resource. If you want to talk real management and solutions there are many options. But most Utah hunters don't. They want to grab there gun or bow during the season, hit it for a weekend or two and walk away. When some want to address the issues others are still more concerned about the social aspect rather than the resource...ie Hoss along with others. To say tag cuts did not work it like paving one road in Utah north to south, and never having any maintance. It's the only paved road so everyone uses it, more than before it was paved. The added traffic breaks it down, no maintance to it gets shiiity again. Hoss is the guy screaming paved roads don't help anything. When in reality we should just pave a few more and spread out the traffic. Then maintain those roads and look at paving others. Smoother traffic, spread out by design. No need to cut traffic just redirect it. Give people a reason to take the other roads.

Mismanagement of any project results in a poor result.

 

[Cass]

I never said shut the units down now did i? I said every unit has the potential of the henries which was consequently shut down. Its not the first time a unit was shut down or closed off in utah. Shutting the units down isn't necessarily needed but management on par with nevadas unit 24 would make deer hunting a lot better. Utah is at the point where drastic measures must be taken. For years all the dwr has cared about is pumping out more tags for more money.



-Cass

 

[hossblur]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-19
>AT 08:36?AM (MST)
>
>Hoss,
>Action? Are you serious??? Come on
>let's get real. What
>have I and my entire
>family really supported on the
>front lines for 40 years?
> Is it tag cuts?
> No it healthier herds.
> Tag cuts are just
>one way in extreme situations
>when the state refuses to
>properly manage a dwindling resource.
> I've offered up many
>solutions that could in the
>end increase tags. But you
>continue to play the role
>of a fool and focus
>in on one thing instead
>of actually trying to make
>a difference.
>Wheels are turning again. Napkin meetings
>are happening again. State
>Reps are sitting down with
>those sportsman again at the
>coffee shops. You have
>no idea becasue you've never
>been in that world.
>You?re too busy squawking here
>and complaining and fingers pointing
>at individuals rather than focusing
>on a solutions to help
>your herds. Your solution
>is not directed at helping
>the deer herd it's meant
>to call out individuals you
>disagree with bottom line.
>It's not noble or a
>solution is just you being
>a clown. The deer
>herd could bounce back to
>800,000 and tags could increase
>by 100,000 and you'd find
>something else to stand in
>the town square and yell
>about. This is not
>about tags or deer numbers
>it's about you and getting
>attention. Shame on me
>for stopping to engage.


Yup. YOU are the ONLY serious person around. YOU are the only one who knows ANY state rep.

You spun again.

I never said you didn't offer any other solutions.

My point is simple.

Cutting tags cost hunters, voters, the future of our sport, and weakens the dwr.

It's a stupid non starter.

So quit wasting time on it.

It's been done. It failed. Move on.


As for 800,000 deer.?

Utah added roughly 450,000 New residents. About a 17% growth rate.

St George exploded.

Brigham city is exploding.

Nephi is. Ephraim is.

Where the hell are we putting 800,000 deer? Or even 425,000?


HABITAT. Our focus as sportsmen should be singular.

BUY LAND. Lock down critical winter range.

WE NEED MORE HUNTERS, MORE REVENUE, MORE VOTER CLOUT.

You don't get that perusing trophy hunting. You get what we have now.






From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[hossblur]

>The truth about tag cuts is
>they were not cut enough
>in some areas or not
>cut properly. The state
>was still being blanket managed
>and not managed properly for
>each unit. Hunters were
>still allowed to focus in
>on hot spots and shoot
>those areas out before other
>units had a chance to
>recover. If you don't
>finish an antibiotic all they
>way you run the risk
>of causing more problems than
>if you'd have never started
>the meds. It's mamagment
>has never been all in
>on what truly benefits the
>deer herd. They have
>based it on the social
>aspect ahead of the resource.
> If you want to
>talk real management and solutions
>there are many options.
>But most Utah hunters don't.
> They want to grab
>there gun or bow during
>the season, hit it for
>a weekend or two and
>walk away. When some
>want to address the issues
>others are still more concerned
>about the social aspect rather
>than the resource...ie Hoss along
>with others. To say
>tag cuts did not work
>it like paving one road
>in Utah north to south,
>and never having any maintance.
> It's the only paved
>road so everyone uses it,
>more than before it was
>paved. The added traffic
>breaks it down, no maintance
>to it gets shiiity again.
> Hoss is the guy
>screaming paved roads don't help
>anything. When in reality
>we should just pave a
>few more and spread out
>the traffic. Then maintain those
>roads and look at paving
>others. Smoother traffic, spread
>out by design. No
>need to cut traffic just
>redirect it. Give people
>a reason to take the
>other roads.
>
>Mismanagement of any project results in
>a poor result.


And your the guy demanding more folks ride the train as you roll down the road in your truck.

But lets continue your dumazz example.

The state is now stuck. We financed roads through gas tax. Then the push for trains, walkable communities and electric cars started. The state LOST its funding source.

Or, WE CUT DRIVERS, which CUT REVENUE.

What Muley ALWAYS omits is what else got pushed when we CUT TAGS.

We cut up the state, the prime areas became LE, we created a commercial business model in CWMU. It forced the hunters onto smaller tracts in less productive habitats.

We didn't "shoot out" units. WE didn't do anything.

A VERY SMALL, VERY VOCAL, AND VERY WELL CONNECTED group sold a fairy tail that if we allowed LE expansion, and CWMU, along with cutting 150,000 tags, and gave control to an interest group all would be well.

Now nearly 30 years later:

1.CWMU has swallowed most of N Utah and is marching south

2. LE has taken the best deer habitat, and locked it up

3. We aren't an economic or political force, so skiing gets the attention

4. That interest group is in control raking in millions yearly while making sure it's deep pocket supporters never worry about draws, or hunting.

5. DEER NUMBERS ARE BARELY AT WHERE THEY WERE WHEN THIS ##### SHOW STARTED.


So, what does the geniuses that gave us NOTHING in exchange for power and money do?

They start doubling down on stupid hoping no one notices the results.

But STILL NOTICE Muley is quick to point out how it's those dudes who just want to hunt a couple weeks that cause the problem. If we could just get rid of those jokers we could all kill 30" bucks yearly.

Of course he too stupid or blind to notice, those "tag cutters" he so loudly supports, ain't in a coffee shop, they are in the gov office, and them boys think MULEY is a problem. He's just the "useful idiot".

You think for one damn second Doyle Moss is going to not hunt a year? WLH? Don Peay?

NO. They demand YOU DO.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[hossblur]

>I never said shut the units
>down now did i? I
>said every unit has the
>potential of the henries which
>was consequently shut down. Its
>not the first time a
>unit was shut down or
>closed off in utah. Shutting
>the units down isn't necessarily
>needed but management on par
>with nevadas unit 24 would
>make deer hunting a lot
>better. Utah is at the
>point where drastic measures must
>be taken. For years all
>the dwr has cared about
>is pumping out more tags
>for more money.
>
>
>
>-Cass


The Henry's were closed to hunting for 5 years I believe. It's also severely restricted in tag #. And. It's regressing even after that.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[Vanilla]

?So here's My Question to Niller:

With Weaponry of all types becoming more Effective by a Large percentage & More Shhiitt getting killed and Wounded and Not Recovered but Limping off & Dieing & Hunters Sayin F'it, I'll just shoot another animal or two or three,do You Not Think this doesn't Hurt/effect a Game Herd??

So is weaponry becoming more effective? Or less effective because of all the wounded animals? You can't have both bessy. Pick one and stick with it.

Muley, I know you've posted stuff in the past about ideas, but I don't recall them off the top of my head. If you're inclined to post them again here, I'm willing to read with an open mind. I did the same for Bess, but all he wanted to do was talk about SxS owners and camo he apparently hates for some reason? So I didn't give his post much credence after reading it. I suspect yours will have a bit more meat to it. You willing to post up your ideas again? Maybe even a new thread so it doesn't get lost here?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

elkassassin yes it was a very harsh winter and you are correct there is a time to cut tags and I think they will this year the DWR knows there was a problem and it looks like they are going to work on winter ground for are deer herds which is very crucial for are herds.

we had a really bad drought in 2018 followed up with a long winter it was a recipe for disaster and they should have cut tags the beginning of 2019 but they didn't hopefully they learned from it.

That's why Habitat is so important to managing are herds.

elkassassin I found out last month that in 2018 the book cliffs elk they captured only half the cows where pregnant?

I truly think that the elk/bison/feral horses/drought/Habitat are taking a toll on are deer herds out there what is your thoughts.

 

[hossblur]

Still no takers.


So. Here's yet another BS call out.

"DWR only cares about $$$".


In the 90's we got sold the cut tag fairytale.

We lost roughly 150,000 licenses.

Ever done the math on the hit that did to dwr budgets?

We cut their budget $100 million dollars or so, in 30 years, and you wonder why they can't do all the things Muley proposes?

How many acres would that have bought? How many bushes? Guzzlers? Extra biologists?

You simply DO NOT have power or finances by showing up with less and less folks.

Utah added 450,000 New residents last year. We have 90,000 deer hunters.

Those new residents have 5x the votes we do.

Who is a politician gping yo listen to? Muley in his coffee shop?

Get real.

You don't negotiate from a position of weakness. Do you really believe 75k deer hunters will have more sway than 90k?

Think you will get more done chopping another $500,000 yearly in licenses?

In the real world, not fairytale land of big bucks behind every tree, votes matter, cash talks.

We are a minority now. So being a smaller minority does what?

It does the same thing it has in 30 years. It creates power vaccum, and makes those deep pockets even more valuable to the DWR.

The DWR didn't set up the parameters they have to exist in them. Yet another BS narrative that comes from the out.

Their is NO money in being a wildlife biologist.

There is a ton in being an outfitter or special interest group.

So who is in it for the $$$ ?



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[Muley_73]

Hoss,
You like to lump everything together. I'm not a fan of CWMU units at all. I'm not a fan of the Dedicated Hunters program. There are a lot of things you point at me that are in reality 180 degrees of my personal belief. You literally make up my views so you have something to argue against. It's pathatic. Look at this thread alone. Calling me out to cut up my tag. When the reality is I've harvested 2 general season bucks in Utah in 13 years. And one of those was a wounded buck on the last day of the season that I mercy killed and put my tag on. When that didn't fit you're narrative you spun it into something else. Again it's honesty pathetic.

But you need someone or some organization to point your fingers at and cry rather than looking for real solutions. You don't really care about the resource you care about YOU and that is it. I'm not even talking hunting here. I'm talking personally everyday life. You look for something to cry about. You?re a part of society that we have all become all too familiar with. You got my attention you have someone noticing you and bantering back...Merry Christmas.

 

[hossblur]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-19 AT 12:49PM (MST)[p]>Hoss,
>You like to lump everything together.
> I'm not a fan
>of CWMU units at all.
>I'm not a fan of
>the Dedicated Hunters program.
>There are a lot of
>things you point at me
>that are in reality 180
>degrees of my personal belief.
> You literally make up
>my views so you have
>something to argue against.
>It's pathatic. Look at
>this thread alone. Calling
>me out to cut up
>my tag. When the
>reality is I've harvested 2
>general season bucks in Utah
>in 13 years. And
>one of those was a
>wounded buck on the last
>day of the season that
>I mercy killed and put
>my tag on. When
>that didn't fit you're narrative
>you spun it into something
>else. Again it's honesty
>pathetic.
>
>But you need someone or some
>organization to point your
>fingers at and cry rather
>than looking for real solutions.
> You don't really care
>about the resource you care
>about YOU and that is
>it. I'm not even
>talking hunting here. I'm talking
>personally everyday life. You
>look for something to cry
>about. You?re a part
>of society that we have
>all become all too familiar
>with. You got my
>attention you have someone noticing
>you and bantering back...Merry Christmas.
>

The other 11 years you were pressuring deer though right?

Your right. I blame those who actually brought us here. You blame those guys who only want to pick up a bow or rifle for 2 weeks.....



I get these about weekly anymore

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50747375

This is what is reality. And on top of that guys like yourself want to cut out hunters we do have, and make it harder to retain the kids.

Our issue isn't buck/doe. Isn't success. Honestly isn't even herd #.


Our #1 issue is we will continue to see ALL HUNTING suffer if we keep losing hunters.

Stick your head in the sand. Call me names. Whatever.

We CANNOT sustain what we have today, yet you want to get rid of more.

We HAVE to have licenses sold, sporting goods bought to support Wildlife. $fw ain't going to no matter how many welfare tags they get.



You and those who follow your logic are simply rearranging chairs on tge titanic.

Great. We cut tags, restrict hunting. We get more 4 points in 5 years.

In 20 years the North American Model implodes due to lack of hunter numbers.

Then, you, me, and most everyone else is out because the Don Peay model takes over.

Just look beyond your deer camp for 30 sec and you can see it. Fewer kids a lot more gray hair.


Used to hear a gazillionaire builder tell guys all the time. "NUMBERS DONT LIE. If the math don't work, it don't work"


We don't have enough hunters. And it's hetting worse.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[elkassassin]

Here's My Question Hoss!

Not Every TARD in the State can Hunt Deer Every Year!

You Yourself admit to the Infux of TARDS!

The Whole F'N State is not where it Should Be when it comes to Numbers of Deer or Quality!

I've Seen This Sshhhiittt coming for years!

But Everybody sat Back & Said F'It!

Well Here We Are!

We F'D it up for more than 40 Years & Now everybody wants a Quick Fix!

HINT:

It Ain't gonna Happen Quick!

I'll Bet You Some Cold Hard Cash it doesn't happen at all,You GAMBLING or Not?

It's FUBAR!

You Need Me to SPLAIN that to You?












I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[ridgetops]

I'm guessing there's a few lifetime tag holders that would love to see more tags cut.

 

[Vanilla]

>I'm guessing there's a few lifetime
>tag holders that would love
>to see more tags cut.
>


Not this one! I'm all for as many tags as we can reasonably give.

 

[hogg_65]

Instead of cutting tags, I'd rather see changes in start days and end days. Cut the season lengths. Change rules in what type of weapons are allowed. Examples: recurve bows, open sights on muzzy, lever action,single shot, open sight rifles. Close some areas on units to vehicles. Make it a bit harder to kill so many deer a season. Incorporate some different strategies like those, instead of drastic tag cuts. A bunch of hunters already don't get to hunt because they have cut tags over the years. If guys aren't willing to change tactics, then they will lose out their privileges to hunt deer in utah.

 

[Tikka]

I'm all for it!!!

>
>Instead of cutting tags, I'd rather
>see changes in start days
>and end days. Cut the
>season lengths. Change rules in
>what type of weapons are
>allowed. Examples: recurve bows, open
>sights on muzzy, lever action,single
>shot, open sight rifles. Close
>some areas on units to
>vehicles. Make it a bit
>harder to kill so many
>deer a season. Incorporate some
>different strategies like those, instead
>of drastic tag cuts. A
>bunch of hunters already don't
>get to hunt because they
>have cut tags over the
>years. If guys aren't willing
>to change tactics, then they
>will lose out their privileges
>to hunt deer in utah.
>

 

[Deepcolor]

This has been fun to read (sarcasm)

Honest question for you guys on here making plans and calling names. Do any of you have any influence on what happens with the DWR?s decisions on tags and seasons? Is there a heavy hitter on this site that can truly influence those decisions or is all of this just useless typing?

 

[hossblur]

>This has been fun to read
>(sarcasm)
>
>Honest question for you guys on
>here making plans and calling
>names. Do any of you
>have any influence on what
>happens with the DWR?s decisions
>on tags and seasons?
>Is there a heavy hitter
>on this site that can
>truly influence those decisions or
>is all of this just
>useless typing?

No. Dkpeay used to be here. Short of that, no.




Bess. 90k. State population doesn't change that.





From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[elkassassin]

>>This has been fun to read
>>(sarcasm)
>>
>>Honest question for you guys on
>>here making plans and calling
>>names. Do any of you
>>have any influence on what
>>happens with the DWR?s decisions
>>on tags and seasons?
>>Is there a heavy hitter
>>on this site that can
>>truly influence those decisions or
>>is all of this just
>>useless typing?
>
>No. Dkpeay used to be
>here. Short of that,
>no.
>
>
>
>
>Bess. 90k. State population
>doesn't change that.
>
>
>
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.


So Hoss?

You Sayin that none of the TARDville Hunters Have any Kids Or Grand-Kids that are gonna wanna Hunt?










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

>
>Instead of cutting tags, I'd rather
>see changes in start days
>and end days. Cut the
>season lengths. Change rules in
>what type of weapons are
>allowed. Examples: recurve bows, open
>sights on muzzy, lever action,single
>shot, open sight rifles. Close
>some areas on units to
>vehicles. Make it a bit
>harder to kill so many
>deer a season. Incorporate some
>different strategies like those, instead
>of drastic tag cuts. A
>bunch of hunters already don't
>get to hunt because they
>have cut tags over the
>years. If guys aren't willing
>to change tactics, then they
>will lose out their privileges
>to hunt deer in utah.
>


Not Bad!

Not Bad!

Problem is:

Some of These TARDS Have Invested 15K in to a Rifle & They Think it's their God Given Right to Hunt with it!

"Lever Action,Single Shot,Open Sight Rifles"

LMAO!

I Had a bunch of them BAWLING on HELL-RIGHT!

Now You're gonna make em BAWL!

Let Em BAWL!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Muley_73]

This made me laugh out loud. The fact that Hoss is still linking anything in the state deer herd wise to Don is funny.

To answer the question truthfully no. There are influencers that have been in the past and they still check in. Hoss scoffs at the napkin meeting comment. But honestly that is were it starts and the guys that make the push are having those meetings with legislators. When the needle has moved in the past that is where it has come from. Hoss scoffs at that because he's not involved and honesty has no clue. Hoss is not about real change he's about personal ranting on the internet and feeling noticed.

Nilla,
If you want me to retype my ideas I'll gladdly send you a PM. I've posted it multiple times on MM over the past 15 years if you haven't picked it up I'll avoid mixing it in with Hoss?s no solution posts.

 

[grizzly]

 

[hossblur]

>This made me laugh out loud.
> The fact that Hoss
>is still linking anything in
>the state deer herd wise
>to Don is funny.
>
>To answer the question truthfully no.
> There are influencers that
>have been in the past
>and they still check in.
> Hoss scoffs at the
>napkin meeting comment. But
>honestly that is were it
>starts and the guys that
>make the push are having
>those meetings with legislators.
>When the needle has moved
>in the past that is
>where it has come from.
> Hoss scoffs at that
>because he's not involved and
>honesty has no clue.
>Hoss is not about real
>change he's about personal ranting
>on the internet and feeling
>noticed.
>
>Nilla,
>If you want me to retype
>my ideas I'll gladdly send
>you a PM. I've
>posted it multiple times on
>MM over the past 15
>years if you haven't picked
>it up I'll avoid mixing
>it in with Hoss?s no
>solution posts.


The gov is $fw

Repub whip is $fw

$fw grew to power under Huntsman

Rob Bishop talking running, wonder who he sides with.

Don't know about Spencer Cox, although I'm guessing.


Session starts next month. Im dying to see the results of your coffee shop. Care to share? Last I heard we just got a new deer plan. Did I miss something?


I don't ever scoff at grass roots. But I can look at WB and RAC, it don't reflect it.


But in the end, we don't have enough hunters. Your not stupid, your not dumb. The current trends show it. You know it.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

+1 Hogg. Let's make weapons more primitive for a majority of the hunts. I'm just as guilty as having long range equipment as much as the next guy but I would be all for limiting long-range weapons. Trail cams, etc. Etc. I think it would be a win-win. We have more and bigger bucks and we don't lose opportunity. What's the problem it wouldn't be hard for the dwr to change the rules would it?

 

[notdonhunting]

So do you think 100 million dollar companies like Vortex, Swarovski, Bushnell. Billion dollar companies Browning, Winchester, Ruger, Sportsman Warehouse and multi Billion dollar company Bass Pro Shop and many more companies that have lobbyist and millions of dollars to throw at state legislators too insure that there products will continue to be sold in Utah.
So explain to me how you are ever going to get the limitations on weapons that you all keep proposing.

 

[Vanilla]

?Primitive weapons? like those available in the 1800s?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitworth_rifle

I posted that link on another thread, but it's good to know the history in discussions like these.

Are success rates significantly higher today than in the 90s? Or 80s? Or 60s? I really don't know the answer to that, but would be interested to know.

 

[elkassassin]

>?Primitive weapons? like those available in
>the 1800s?
>
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitworth_rifle
>
>I posted that link on another
>thread, but it's good to
>know the history in discussions
>like these.
>
>Are success rates significantly higher today
>than in the 90s? Or
>80s? Or 60s? I really
>don't know the answer to
>that, but would be interested
>to know.


The Success Rates of Mature Bucks in Several Decades have been way Lower!

It Don't Take a Brain Storm to Figure that out!

So Here be a Question:

Say You went back to Weapons that Hogg Listed!

How TF is it gonna be Enforced?

Oh I Get it!

Just Like Shed Season is Enforced!

There Would be Thousands of LAW BREAKIN Beaches sayin:

F'it,I'm Huntin with what I Want & I'll take my chances!

Who Loses again?

I Can see it Now:

DWR gets 20,000 Calls opening morning of Reports on the Long Rangers Still Packin & 2 Citations for the Whole Day Wrote out!

I'm not against it!

Just wondering how you're gonna enforce it?

Handing the Modern Day Joe Blow a Single Shot LEVER with No Scope & Saying:Go Hunt with this SUCKER,LMMFAO!












I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[notdonhunting]

What I am talking about is center fire rifles not primitive weapons.
These big businesses have to much too lose if states start taking away there money maker items.

I am not saying you should not try and limit primitive weapons, primitive weapons should always had put limits on them. The problem we got at least hear in Utah is they do not call any hunts primitive weapons.
Merry Christmas

 

[Deepcolor]

Elk, I will ask again how you plan to implement all of these radical changes. Do you have the stroke to do anything besides type type type on MM?

 

[elkassassin]

>Elk, I will ask again how
>you plan to implement all
>of these radical changes. Do
>you have the stroke to
>do anything besides type type
>type on MM?

Hey DC!

Nothing will change in this State Except the Deer Hunting will continue to get Worse just like it has for 40+ Years & Counting!

The Changes if any will be Minimal!

The Changes to try & Turn Things around would be Severe & Nobody is gonna like it!

HENCE:

They Might make a couple Changes just appease a few People but mark my word on it,The Deer Herd will get Worse!

It doesn't take a Brain Surgeon to Figure this #### out!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkfromabove]

>Every unit
>in utah has the potential
>of the henries IMO. Utah
>just needs to learn how
>to manage its deer herds
>plain and simple. It all
>starts at the top.
>
>-Cass


EVERY UNIT has the potential of the Henrys? You wish! There may be some, but very few. The dynamics just aren't there for most of them. The Henry Unit has:

- Human population, less than 700 (355 of them in Henrieville on the north boundary).
- No Freeways.
- Few paved roads with very low roadkill.
- 373,833 acres of deer habitat with 3.13% private, 96.87% public.
- Elk, fewer than 30. Objective is zero.
- Pronghorn, few, if any.
- Moose, none
- RM goats, none
- RM sheep, none
- Habitat is somewhat isolated. Nearest winter or year-round deer habitat is 8 to 10 miles away and nearest summer range is about 50 miles away.
- No CWD
- Little, if any poaching.
- Few annual hunts (or hunters) of any big game species (deer, elk, bison, Desert Bighorn), less than 100.
- Minimal tourism, ATV riding, hiking, or camping. And no fishing or skiing that I'm aware of.
- 47% shrubland, 13% woodlands, 1% grasslands, 33+% other coverage types, and with some agriculture, housing, roads, etc. thrown in.
- Vegetation that is in reasonably good condition.
- Genetics for large antlered deer.

There may be other criteria I missed that makes the Henry Mountain deer herd what it is today, but you get the picture.

But, having said all of that, it still would be necessary to manage hunting like we currently do on the Henrys in order to realize that potential. And that means managing it for premium trophy bucks, not opportunity or even standard LE trophy bucks

And we don't now manage that unit (or the Paunsaugunt) just for buck to doe ratios (40-55/100). We also manage it for a 3 year average age objective of 40% of the harvested bucks to be 5 years or older. That means no dead young bucks allowed!

It also means drastic tag cuts! There are currently only 49 Henry deer tags in the draw and 10 Management tags and 3 Expo tags and 4 Conservation tags. That's a total of 66 Henry deer tags. Sixty-six tags for a herd of 1,600 deer = 4%. You do the math for your favorite unit and see if that's acceptable. Then figure out how long it would take you to draw a tag and how many times you would draw in your lifetime. Do you still think EVERY unit could or should be a Henrys?

One last thing! The Henry Mountain Unit is one of the worst units in the state for losing its population. It's objective is 2,700 deer and it has never been that high, but is currently on a slide downward from 2,200 in 2016 to 1,900 in 2017 to 1,600 in 2018. Funny how NOBODY complains about a unit that is now only 60% of its population objective and is also dropping its age objective percentage from 70% in 2016 to 68% in 2017 to 46% in 2018.

EVERY unit a Henrys? I think I'll pass.

 

[elkassassin]

>>Every unit
>>in utah has the potential
>>of the henries IMO. Utah
>>just needs to learn how
>>to manage its deer herds
>>plain and simple. It all
>>starts at the top.
>>
>>-Cass
>
>
>EVERY UNIT has the potential of
>the Henrys? You wish! There
>may be some, but very
>few. The dynamics just aren't
>there for most of them.
>The Henry Unit has:
>
>- Human population, less than 700
>(355 of them in Henrieville
>on the north boundary).
>- No Freeways.
>- Few paved roads with very
>low roadkill.
>- 373,833 acres of deer habitat
>with 3.13% private, 96.87% public.
>
>- Elk, fewer than 30. Objective
>is zero.
>- Pronghorn, few, if any.
>- Moose, none
>- RM goats, none
>- RM sheep, none
>- Habitat is somewhat isolated. Nearest
>winter or year-round deer habitat
>is 8 to 10 miles
>away and nearest summer range
>is about 50 miles away.
>
>- No CWD
>- Little, if any poaching.
>- Few annual hunts (or hunters)
>of any big game species
>(deer, elk, bison, Desert Bighorn),
>less than 100.
>- Minimal tourism, ATV riding, hiking,
>or camping. And no fishing
> or skiing that I'm
>aware of.
>- 47% shrubland, 13% woodlands, 1%
>grasslands, 33+% other coverage types,
>and with some agriculture, housing,
>roads, etc. thrown in.
>- Vegetation that is in reasonably
>good condition.
>- Genetics for large antlered deer.
>
>
>There may be other criteria I
>missed that makes the Henry
>Mountain deer herd what it
>is today, but you get
>the picture.
>
>But, having said all of that,
>it still would be necessary
>to manage hunting like we
>currently do on the Henrys
>in order to realize that
>potential. And that means managing
>it for premium trophy bucks,
>not opportunity or even standard
>LE trophy bucks
>
>And we don't now manage that
>unit (or the Paunsaugunt) just
>for buck to doe ratios
>(40-55/100). We also manage it
>for a 3 year average
>age objective of 40% of
>the harvested bucks to be
>5 years or older. That
>means no dead young bucks
>allowed!
>
>It also means drastic tag cuts!
>There are currently only 49
>Henry deer tags in the
>draw and 10 Management tags
>and 3 Expo tags and
>4 Conservation tags. That's a
>total of 66 Henry deer
>tags. Sixty-six tags for a
>herd of 1,600 deer =
>4%. You do the math
>for your favorite unit and
>see if that's acceptable. Then
>figure out how long it
>would take you to draw
>a tag and how many
>times you would draw in
>your lifetime. Do you still
>think EVERY unit could or
>should be a Henrys?
>
>One last thing! The Henry Mountain
>Unit is one of the
>worst units in the state
>for losing its population. It's
>objective is 2,700 deer and
>it has never been that
>high, but is currently on
>a slide downward from 2,200
>in 2016 to 1,900 in
>2017 to 1,600 in 2018.
>Funny how NOBODY complains about
>a unit that is now
>only 60% of its population
>objective and is also dropping
>its age objective percentage from
>70% in 2016 to 68%
>in 2017 to 46% in
>2018.
>
>EVERY unit a Henrys? I think
>I'll pass.
>

The Henry's Should be way Better than they are for Deer!

Thanks to Taking the Cream of the Crop every year & a Small Herd here We are!

If there is a Big Buck on that Mountain Range:

They have a Name & a Price Tag on them!

EFA Ain't gonna like Units like the Henry's!

It Ain't Made for Shootin PISSCUTTERS!

And it could be Perty Mean to get a Little Ole PISSCUTTER or Doe out of some of that Country!

Just Think EFA!

You Could Hunt off of others CHUM Piles!

Wouldn't Be any Bait Costs!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!