Cross talk - what you think?

Feleno

Long Time Member
Messages
4,034
Judges weigh whether Utah crosses are secular

DENVER ? A federal appeals court is weighing Utah's use of crosses on roadside memorials honoring fallen highway patrol troopers, trying to decide if they are an endorsement of religion or a nonreligious, secular symbol of death.
A three-judge panel of the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals heard arguments Monday in the case involving what the group American Atheists called "heroic-size" 12-foot-high crosses placed along state highways.
Utah's 14 memorial crosses, paid for by the private Utah Highway Patrol Association, contain the highway patrol's logo and a small plaque with a photo and short biography of the fallen trooper, as well as the trooper's name, rank, badge number and year of death.
A federal judge in Utah ruled in 2007 that the crosses communicate a secular message about the deaths of the troopers and are not an illegal public endorsement of religion. That judge cited the use of religious symbols in military cemeteries.
Utah Assistant Attorney General Thom Roberts defended the use of the privately funded crosses as a way to quickly convey a message to passing motorists that a trooper died there, and said the crosses are not an endorsement of religion.
But Texas-based American Atheists argued that the crosses are symbols that convey a government endorsement of religion and shouldn't be on public land.
American Atheists' attorney Brian Barnard argued that without any context, the crosses could indicate that the trooper who died was a Christian.
"Here these crosses stand alone," Barnard told the judges. "There isn't anything else nearby that says they're not religious in nature."
Luke Goodrich, an attorney with The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, argued on behalf of Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Kansas, which asked to argue because the case could affect memorials in their states. Goodrich asked the judges to decide the case not on the religiousness of crosses, but on whether the state provides a neutral forum for expression.
A joint resolution by the Utah Legislature in 2006 declared the cross a nonreligious, secular symbol of death, Roberts said.
Appeals Court Judge David M. Ebel told Roberts that Utah's declaration doesn't necessarily make it so. "Declaring something a purse doesn't make it a purse," Ebel said.
Judge Harris Hartz later asked Roberts: "Give me an example that it's a secular symbol of death. Show me a non-Christian that uses a cross to symbolize death."
The judges also expressed concern that Utah officials would not allow a similarly sized religious symbol, a Star of David symbolizing the Jewish faith, for example, if a trooper's family requested one.
"If it was a Jewish or a Muslim trooper, that person wouldn't get it. That's where I have a problem," Ebel said.
The judges did not say when they would rule.
 
There is no way to appease every faction of our society. It reminds me of a quote I like:

"He who take offense, when no offense is meant, is a fool."

-------------------------
www.sagebasin.com
-------------------------
 
How is having a cross on the side of the road in memorial offensive to anyone? So it's a cross!! If the Atheists don't believe in Christ, it is simply a t!! What gives!! Tell 'um to fick off!!


Steve
 
Seems to me that this nation was founded upon the common belief in God. Now we have those that don't believe in God and piss and moan about being offended by prayers in school, the pledge of allegiance, and now crosses on highways. Well hell, it offends the hell out of me that these people are takeing God out of this country! Correct me if i am wrong, but aren't those who don't believe still the minority?
 
OK, devil's advocate analysis:

>Utah's 14 memorial crosses, paid for
>by the private Utah Highway
>Patrol Association, contain the highway
>patrol's logo and a small
>plaque with a photo and
>short biography of the fallen
>trooper, as well as the
>trooper's name, rank, badge number
>and year of death.

The key here is that they are privately placed and paid for. So it comes down to whether or not another organization or individual can do the same. Some states are trying to discourage roadside memorials because of maintenance and liability issues. Where does Utah stand on the issue of memorials alone, regardless of content?


>The judges also expressed concern that
>Utah officials would not allow
>a similarly sized religious symbol,
>a Star of David symbolizing
>the Jewish faith, for example,
>if a trooper's family requested
>one.
>"If it was a Jewish or
>a Muslim trooper, that person
>wouldn't get it. That's where
>I have a problem," Ebel
>said.

If this is true that they would allow one type of memorial but not allow another, then they are being discriminatory. Don't think you can argue that. So then the only argument becomes "is it acceptable to dictate what type of memorial can be placed"? Is it OK to discriminate? I'm not deciding, just providing a perspective.

Step back and take the religion issue out of the argument for a minute. Substitute some other thing for the religious connotations. Only then can one really give this a test of fairness. Too much emotion otherwise.
 
Good. Maybe they'll put up something different that looks nicer. Those crosses are tacky. I think they look awful. I'd rather see a stone monument or something that tells about the trooper who died and what happened to him/her.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom