Concealed Weapons Law **Advice needed**

[rbon80]

I was Coyote hunting in Rich County a week ago and was going from one stand to the next. On my way to the next stand I ran into a DWR officer and was given a ticket for a chambered round in my .223. Now, I know I am in the wrong for the very concept of the chambered round and safety concerns but, it is my understanding that a concealed weapon permit would negate a ticket. With that being said, I do not have a concealed weapon permit but I was with a friend whom was also in the vehicle and he does. The fine is $623 and obviously the timing with xmas bad and I'm thinking about fighting it... do I have a case?

 

[RELH]

I think you were given some bad information. You need to check the laws in your state. Here in CA. you do not have a legal option out.

If you do not have a legal leg to stand on, you might try and see if you can pay the fine in payments Vs one l lump sum.

RELH

 

[JACO]

Utah Code

76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
(1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
(a) in or on a vehicle, unless:
(i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
(ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the person lawfully in possession of the vehicle;
(b) on a public street; or
(c) in a posted prohibited area.
(2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
(3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
(4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.

So to answer your question: No, you do not have a case. Similar thing happened to my dad 2 years ago. Crappy deal

Similar thing happened to my dad 2 years ago, the day after Christmas. The judge ended up reducing his fine since he had to drive a long distance to the court and he explained the circumstances of his ticket, etc. Still sucked though. Good luck to ya!

P.S. Always check your rifle/shotgun/muzzy chamber before entering a vehicle.

 

[D13er]

in CA...you can list up to 3 firearms on your ccw and those are the only 3 that the ccw applies to. I tried to put a rifle on my ccw so that I could do exactly as you describe...it was not what they consider a "concealable" firearm and they would not allow it.

Pay the fine.


JB

 

[justr_86]

You were in the wrong, whats wrong with doing the right thing and paying the fine?

 

[ktg]

Read 53-5-704-c

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_052300.htm

53-5-704. ? -- Permit to carry concealed firearm -- ?.
(1) (a) The bureau shall issue a permit to carry a concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is 21 years of age or older within 60 days after receiving an application, unless the bureau finds proof that the applicant does not meet the qualifications set forth in Subsection
(b) The permit is valid throughout the state for five years, without restriction, except as otherwise provided by Section 53-5-710.
(c) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to a person issued a permit under Subsection (1)(a).


76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
(1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
(a) in or on a vehicle, unless:
(i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
(ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the person lawfully in possession of the vehicle;
(b) on a public street; or
(c) in a posted prohibited area.
(2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
(3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
(4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.

 

[Hardway]

(c) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to a person issued a permit under Subsection (1)(a).

And there you go. Get yourself a permit and you would have been legal......Hell I live in Ca and I would have been legal if I was with ya.......You guys in UT have it so DAMN good when it comes to CCW's it amazes me when somebody does'nt have one.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

[ktg]

>
>(c) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)
>and (2), and Section 76-10-505
>do not apply to a
>person issued a permit under
>Subsection (1)(a).
>
>And there you go. Get yourself
>a permit and you would
>have been legal......Hell I live
>in Ca and I would
>have been legal if I
>was with ya.......You guys in
>UT have it so DAMN
>good when it comes to
>CCW's it amazes me when
>somebody does'nt have one.
>

+1. Would have saved you a lot of money. Plus no background check fee when you buy a gun.

 

[longshooter338]

Hell no, And who the hell carries a loaded firearm in the vehicle. period, common sence just aint all that common anymore .

 

[Hardway]

> Hell no, And who the
>hell carries a loaded firearm
>in the vehicle. period, common
>sence just aint all that
>common anymore .

Mine is always loaded unless its in the safe or its out of my direct control. Nothin like hualin around a $1000 paperweight.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

[Aaron84]

I have a question and yes its gonna make me sound stupid, but what would be the definiton of a loaded muzzle loader. Would it be considered loaded if it has powder and a projectile but no primer? Or does it have to be completly empty? As for carrying a loaded rifle I don't chamber a round till i'm ready to shoot. But my concealed pistol I carry it's locked and loaded.

 

[legacy]

>I have a question and yes
>its gonna make me sound
>stupid, but what would be
>the definiton of a loaded
>muzzle loader. Would it be
>considered loaded if it has
>powder and a projectile but
>no primer? Or does it
>have to be completly empty?
>As for carrying a loaded
>rifle I don't chamber a
>round till i'm ready to
>shoot. But my concealed pistol
>I carry it's locked and
>loaded.

If its not capped, its not loaded. (Utah law anyway)

 

[Aaron84]

Thanks thats good to know, no more pushing the bullet and powder out everytime i get in my ride.

 

[rbon80]

Thanks for the useful responses (the pricks that seem to feel a need to be jack a's can kiss my A and not reply again). I have done some research and found utah house bill 357 which seems to ammend some of the laws described by others on here. I am not a lawer but do have one looking at it now. Hopefully this works for me and is useful for others in the future. In here it actually deletes the line which states a concealed weapon permit is necessary. Let me know what you think.

http://le.utah.gov/~2009/bills/hbillint/hb0357s01.pdf

 

[kingfish]

Are you guys talking loaded or chambered??

 

[backinthegame]

Hahaha...oh yeah, all of the guys on here are "pricks" and jacka**es...not the guy who was caught riding around with a chambered rifle and is now trying to weasel out of a fine.

 

[longshooter338]

You are the guy i teach my hunters ed kids not to be. NO coyote is worth your and your passengers safety let alone your tranny DA man up and pay the ticket your guilty as hell !!!


prick and jackass, both are compliments to me

 

[Utah400Elk]

rbon80:

Just a quick question for you. You admit it was your rifle that was loaded and you say you made a mistake but then hint (that is the way I take it) that your defense might be that the concealed weapon holder (your buddy) would negate your mistake. The only way I would see that working is for you to have your buddy go to court and say the rifle was his and therefore his CCW would cover the rifle. If that's the route you are taking do you think it's a good idea to post your idea the web? Condoning perjury is not a great idea and another crime itself. I agree with most of the people on this subject...man up and take the fine. It sucks, but you made the mistake. I would be willing to bet that if you pay the fine it will never happen again but if you weasel your way out you will not have learned a thing. Does anybody know if a Utah CCW can covers a rifle? I would not think it would because a rifle, in most cases, can't be concealed. I don't think it would but I am sure I might be wrong.

 

[justr_86]

Given what could have happened I'd say you got lucky finding out this way than what could have happened. I will bet you double check your gun before you put it in the truck. They make the fines hurt so you won't forget!

Man up! Pay the damn ticket!

 

[WapitiBob]

"Now, I know I am in the wrong for the very concept of the chambered round and safety concerns but, it is my understanding that a concealed weapon permit would negate a ticket. With that being said, I do not have a concealed weapon permit ....."

That pretty much covers it.
By the time you pay the lawyer and the judge drops the fine, you'll be right back where you started.

Tell the judge you were stupid, pay the fine and tell your kids that all of our actions have consequences, even when we're adults.

 

[1911]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-10 AT 12:51PM (MST)[p]That bill does not mean anything insomuch as it does not match the passed version which became law. A bill is just that, text being sponsored and negotiated through the house to become law during the legislative process. The only thing that will matter is the law, as it existed at the time of the offense. What you are looking at there was one version of Sandstrom's 2009 bills sponsored which actually made drastic changes to this law from previous years. Unfortunately for your case, the long rifle, shotgun clause pretty well negates any of those changes for you. Looks to me like it is what it is and if you want damage control beg for mercy from the prosecutor, then judge. An attorney will cost you a hella more than the fine on this one.

 

[rbon80]

I am just trying to understand the law. I would not ever ask anyone to say or do anything against the law on my behalf and against my own moral code. I was simply told that a new law passed last year and that I should look into it, which I have been doing by asking around. If I am and it apears I am guilty and I was misinformed about the new laws then all I am doing is getting a better understanding of the law. From the sounds of it I will be paying a fine and moving along my way. Thanks for the help.

 

[Foreman4x4]

What a douche! You got caught, now pay the fuggin' fine!

 

[1911]

rbon80,

There was a major change in the law. However, the restrictions of the law were not eased on long guns. Long gun = illegal in car loaded unless YOU, the legal possessor, had a ccw. Basically, the law was modified to be much less restrictive than the previous law under changes in the 'castle doctrine' being extended to vehicles.

I would imagine that the reason the law was crafted to keep the more restrictive enforcement on long guns was deliberate and specific for hunting related enforcement purposes.

To answer your question, the law changed if you had a pistol. You did not have a pistol so it did not change.

If you want to mitigate the impact this has on you financially refer to my previous response.

 

[Roy]

I think we need to get a clarification for you about "loaded" vs. "chambered." I haven't studied this new law all that much so I am confused about it too. From what I understand though, even if you had a CCW it would still be illegal to have a round chambered in a long gun. You could have the weapon "loaded" with shells in the magazine, just not chambered. Please correct me if I am wrong .45. Still however, laws never override common sense and basic firearm saftey. I don't care what the law says or what kind of permit you have, you will not get in my vehicle with a live round in the chamber of your rifle PERIOD.

I think you need to throw yourself on the mercy of the court. You need to talk with the prosecutor, he may be able to reduce the fine, arrange for a plea in abeyance, do community service instead of the fine, or even jail time. (I had a buddy who traded a $750 fine for a night in the county lock-up. He was booked at 5PM on a wild Friday night and released at 11PM because they were running out of room.)

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)

 

[Model_70_Guy]

>I am just trying to understand
>the law. I would not
>ever ask anyone to say
>or do anything against the
>law on my behalf and
>against my own moral code.

That's not what you stated at the begining of your post...

"it is my understanding that a concealed weapon permit would negate a ticket. With that being said, I do not have a concealed weapon permit but I was with a friend whom was also in the vehicle and he does."

Why would your buddies CCW have anything to do with what you were cited for unless you were thinking about asking him to say it was his weapon?

Pay the fine.

 

[eelgrass]

Model70, exactly!

On a personal level, I don't care what the law says. I can assure anyone you won't be getting into my truck with a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzleloader. That's a rule I never break. Just common sense, guys.

Eel

 

[kilowatt]

Eel can I bring my "loaded" slingshot with Nightscope?

Brian
http://i25.tinypic.com/fxbjgy.jpg[/IMG]

 

[Foreman4x4]

>Model70, exactly!
>
>On a personal level, I don't
>care what the law says.
>I can assure anyone you
>won't be getting into my
>truck with a loaded rifle,
>shotgun, or muzzleloader. That's a
>rule I never break. Just
>common sense, guys.
>
>Eel

+10k!

 

[rbon80]

The law reads funny and a point in there addresses consent of the vehicle owner, which looked like I was actually not breaking the law... then there was a part that referenced an exception to the law that I didn't see which stated a long rifle, shotgun, and muzzle loader did not apply to the consent. Read it and you will see what I am talking about. Agreed it was stupid, it isn't common practice for me, it was a mistake, and something I thought for sure was against the rules. I was told about the changes and was seeing what everybody here knew. Thanks for the help.