PleaseDear
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DeerKing or Buckspy can ya get me a little info, if ya don't mind on the S-9 Ram unit. My bud drew bow-Ram.....thanks [email protected]
Colo. S-9 Help Please
- Thread starter PleaseDear
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Do you know anybody that has actually hunted there or did he just put in for it because its got the best draw odds and most tags? I ask that not in a smart ass manner but because most people see the tag #'s in the brochure and apply because of the draw odds and desire. There are reasons they have the highest tag #'s available, with that being that its arguably the roughest sheep unit in the state.
The lightning will flat put schit in your neck up there in August. Spookiest lightning storms I have ever witnessed and that WILL be confirmed by just about anyone who has ever hunted it with any seriousness. Ask Bluehair. His eyes still get big when he talks about it. The San Luis Valley to the west gets really warm and that warm moist air rises so fast and cools so quickly when it hits the Sangres that it produces some REALLY violent weather in August and early September.
The sheep are usually found ABOVE 12,000' feet in elevation and rams are usually as far from the most obvious trailheads and access points. Usually up a drainage over the top and into a trailess drainage. Ewes and lambs are easy to find and are a pretty good indication that there aren't mature rams around. I've yet to see them in the same basin during a hunting season.
The difference in the average humans ability to cope and compensate to the oxygen levels at 12,000' and 10,000' is night and day. Its not the "DEATH ZONE" but it is some THIN air and it zaps you.
Water can be really scarce above timberline in drainages where rams can be found. You might have to pack your own water in places where you find rams.
Most guys kill small rams and or go home without because they don't have the physical and mental conditioning that it takes to kill a ram in that unit. My season started Sept 5th and I didn't kill my ram until Oct 4th and that was on my 5th backpacking trip in there and I had to kill him at over 400 yards because they were up in a huge open basin with no cover whatsoever.
I consider myself pretty hard core hunter for deer and elk and I'm not afraid to put whatever effort out that it takes. That hunt was the most difficult hunt of my life and that mountain range flat kicked my a$$$.
Also there is a schitload of black bears down in the drainages there and they have raided quite a few sheep hunters camps.
Alot of tags go "wasted" in that unit by people who have totally underestimated what it takes to kill a ram in the Sangres. Burn their legs and feet out after two days. Get tired on being thirsty and having cotton mouth at night from conserving the water they have to pack on their backs. Start walking ridgelines after a couple days and bag the hunt in less than a week. Get knocked in the dirt by the altitude. I'm not saying your buddy is going to do that but plain and simple, its a reality in the Sangres.
This isn't an attempt to scare the hunter, just a really serious FYI. That mountain range claims victims every year, two during my season. Neither were hunters. A plane ticket to Denver to the Bighorn sheep hunters orientation in June is probably money well spent for someone who hasn't hunted there before.
The lightning will flat put schit in your neck up there in August. Spookiest lightning storms I have ever witnessed and that WILL be confirmed by just about anyone who has ever hunted it with any seriousness. Ask Bluehair. His eyes still get big when he talks about it. The San Luis Valley to the west gets really warm and that warm moist air rises so fast and cools so quickly when it hits the Sangres that it produces some REALLY violent weather in August and early September.
The sheep are usually found ABOVE 12,000' feet in elevation and rams are usually as far from the most obvious trailheads and access points. Usually up a drainage over the top and into a trailess drainage. Ewes and lambs are easy to find and are a pretty good indication that there aren't mature rams around. I've yet to see them in the same basin during a hunting season.
The difference in the average humans ability to cope and compensate to the oxygen levels at 12,000' and 10,000' is night and day. Its not the "DEATH ZONE" but it is some THIN air and it zaps you.
Water can be really scarce above timberline in drainages where rams can be found. You might have to pack your own water in places where you find rams.
Most guys kill small rams and or go home without because they don't have the physical and mental conditioning that it takes to kill a ram in that unit. My season started Sept 5th and I didn't kill my ram until Oct 4th and that was on my 5th backpacking trip in there and I had to kill him at over 400 yards because they were up in a huge open basin with no cover whatsoever.
I consider myself pretty hard core hunter for deer and elk and I'm not afraid to put whatever effort out that it takes. That hunt was the most difficult hunt of my life and that mountain range flat kicked my a$$$.
Also there is a schitload of black bears down in the drainages there and they have raided quite a few sheep hunters camps.
Alot of tags go "wasted" in that unit by people who have totally underestimated what it takes to kill a ram in the Sangres. Burn their legs and feet out after two days. Get tired on being thirsty and having cotton mouth at night from conserving the water they have to pack on their backs. Start walking ridgelines after a couple days and bag the hunt in less than a week. Get knocked in the dirt by the altitude. I'm not saying your buddy is going to do that but plain and simple, its a reality in the Sangres.
This isn't an attempt to scare the hunter, just a really serious FYI. That mountain range claims victims every year, two during my season. Neither were hunters. A plane ticket to Denver to the Bighorn sheep hunters orientation in June is probably money well spent for someone who hasn't hunted there before.
LAST EDITED ON May-01-04 AT 07:08PM (MST)[p]Here's a photo of my 10 1/2 year old October ram from the Sangres. His horns taped at 35" on the side you see and 36" on the other. He was exceptionally dark in color and really stood out in the band of rams he was in. After all the pain, hard work and suffering, I was elated to say the least! 
PleaseDear
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Thanks Buckspy, You've pretty much summed up what any sheep hunt can most usually be!!! Been on quite a few myself.....that cottonmouth taste is one ya never forget! Wait till ya go on your D-Ram hunt this fall!!
The harvest reports are about the same for all bow-Ram hunts, 15% harvests.
I read your article a couple of times and I think Denny Gardner had one in the same Eastmans Issue. Great read! and a dandy Ram! Didn't that other guy in the same issue?? get his with his mzzldr and it is like the #1 or #2 mzzldr Ram in Colo. now?? Good Rams for sure.
Well thanks for the story and heads up, kinda looking for a starting point for him......Good luck on your Des. Ram hunt.
The harvest reports are about the same for all bow-Ram hunts, 15% harvests.
I read your article a couple of times and I think Denny Gardner had one in the same Eastmans Issue. Great read! and a dandy Ram! Didn't that other guy in the same issue?? get his with his mzzldr and it is like the #1 or #2 mzzldr Ram in Colo. now?? Good Rams for sure.
Well thanks for the story and heads up, kinda looking for a starting point for him......Good luck on your Des. Ram hunt.
Jeff Barber, who's a friend of mine, killed that ram with a muzz in a unit south of S-9 but the mountains basically could be considered the same range. There was a sidebar article to accompany my story that I wrote in third person that quotes and paraphrases Dennis Gardner, who was the past president of the Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society which is the local sheep non-profit for Colorado. "Sandbrew" a.k.a. John Legnard is now the current president. Both really good guys who donate a hell of alot of time to sheep in Colorado.
A heads up for your buddy, PD. I was looking at the add for the new Deluxe Edition Big Game CD on the back cover of the sheep brochure yesterday. It claims to have harvest location plotting spots for bighorn. When you kill a ram in Colorado, you have to fill out a questionaire which includes where you killed it. Specifically. Could be $102.95 well spent for an non-resident hunting without a guide. www.BigGameCD.com
A heads up for your buddy, PD. I was looking at the add for the new Deluxe Edition Big Game CD on the back cover of the sheep brochure yesterday. It claims to have harvest location plotting spots for bighorn. When you kill a ram in Colorado, you have to fill out a questionaire which includes where you killed it. Specifically. Could be $102.95 well spent for an non-resident hunting without a guide. www.BigGameCD.com
Pleasedear,
I have sent messages to your buddy via Bowsite and told him the Hunter Orientation is not a requirement but is HIGHLY recommended. Altitude can kill a person if they are not trained to look for danger signs, even if they think they are in excellent shape. We cover lots of high altitude safety stuff at the orientation. I wise sheep hunter told me before my sheep hunt in 2000 ?You are not in as nearly as good of shape as you think you are and you'll understand what I mean 3-4 days into your hunt?
Buckspy sure makes sheep hunting sound dangerous and it can be. The Sangrees are HIGH and steep and rough and dry. Lightening can and will kill you if you don't respect and watch out for it. Wind, rain and snow will not only damped your spirits and your clothes hypothermia will kill you as well. An S9 hunt is not to be taken lightly!
He?s an idea of how tough the unit is. In 2002 because of EXTREMLY HIGH fire danger and multiple HUGE fires burning across the state of Colorado the National Forest Service CLOSED many areas to EVERYONE. This included sheep tag holders for S9. The RMBS fought to get these folks who had already draw an exact tag replacement for 2003 since they could not legally use the 2002 tag even if they wanted. As a side note (The CDOW wanted to refund these tag holders money and give them a weighted point so they would not lose their place in the draw. They would have to reapply in 2003 as if they had never draw in 2002. BAD IDEA the RMBS thought.) Any way there where something like 18 early season ram tags turned in and only 3 people reapplied in S9 many saying they had scouted it and would rather try their luck else where. These people turned in a garmented tag because the unit was so tough and had kicked their butts scouting!
I would learn towards and outfitter on a once in lifetime sheep hunt for an out of stater in S9. For the price the outfiiter can scout, plan, cook meals, equipt a camp, have horses etc etc. One way to look at the expense is to spraed the cost out over the next 9 years until he is eligable to draw again that makes a $5500 sheep hunt less than $650 per year
I'm not saying a fellow can't do it on his own but it takes a hell of a lot of physical training and toughness and an equal if not greater part of mental toughness. I can sympathize with Buckspy?s long hard hunt. When I archery hunted in 2000 I drew a tag in a unit 2 ? hours from my front door. I scouted 15 or 16 days during the summer and right before my season. I hunted 17 out of the first 22 days before I saw a legal ram. I killed him on the 23 day of my 28 day season at the start of my 4th week in the hills. I had trained hard and lost 10 pounds scouting and hiking that summer. I was thinking I was in pretty good shape. I lost 17 more pounds in the 22 days of my hunt. I hunted alone 90% of the time. The long hard days and short cold nights took their toll on me mentally. I was wiped out after a week after 2 weeks I was wondering if I hard the guts to pull this off. I regrouped and head out for my 3rd week and still no luck. I really started doubting myself at the start of week 4 and then it all came together.
I finally spotted 2 nice rams in a stalkable area. I spent another sleepless night waiting for the next morning to start my stalk. Long story short I arrowed a ram and made a less than perfect hit. Just when I was thinking my hunt was over I was now pushing myself 10x harder tracking my ram. It took over 24 hours to find him but I kept after the track and pushed myself well past what I ever dreamed it would take to harvest a trophy of a lifetime. I learned a lot about myself and I can always look back and compare some of life?s ?little? challenges to my sheep hunt and say as long as it's not as hard as my sheep hunt I can accomplish it.
http://www.bowsite.com/bstrophy/details.cfm?trophyid=871
I have sent messages to your buddy via Bowsite and told him the Hunter Orientation is not a requirement but is HIGHLY recommended. Altitude can kill a person if they are not trained to look for danger signs, even if they think they are in excellent shape. We cover lots of high altitude safety stuff at the orientation. I wise sheep hunter told me before my sheep hunt in 2000 ?You are not in as nearly as good of shape as you think you are and you'll understand what I mean 3-4 days into your hunt?
Buckspy sure makes sheep hunting sound dangerous and it can be. The Sangrees are HIGH and steep and rough and dry. Lightening can and will kill you if you don't respect and watch out for it. Wind, rain and snow will not only damped your spirits and your clothes hypothermia will kill you as well. An S9 hunt is not to be taken lightly!
He?s an idea of how tough the unit is. In 2002 because of EXTREMLY HIGH fire danger and multiple HUGE fires burning across the state of Colorado the National Forest Service CLOSED many areas to EVERYONE. This included sheep tag holders for S9. The RMBS fought to get these folks who had already draw an exact tag replacement for 2003 since they could not legally use the 2002 tag even if they wanted. As a side note (The CDOW wanted to refund these tag holders money and give them a weighted point so they would not lose their place in the draw. They would have to reapply in 2003 as if they had never draw in 2002. BAD IDEA the RMBS thought.) Any way there where something like 18 early season ram tags turned in and only 3 people reapplied in S9 many saying they had scouted it and would rather try their luck else where. These people turned in a garmented tag because the unit was so tough and had kicked their butts scouting!
I would learn towards and outfitter on a once in lifetime sheep hunt for an out of stater in S9. For the price the outfiiter can scout, plan, cook meals, equipt a camp, have horses etc etc. One way to look at the expense is to spraed the cost out over the next 9 years until he is eligable to draw again that makes a $5500 sheep hunt less than $650 per year
I'm not saying a fellow can't do it on his own but it takes a hell of a lot of physical training and toughness and an equal if not greater part of mental toughness. I can sympathize with Buckspy?s long hard hunt. When I archery hunted in 2000 I drew a tag in a unit 2 ? hours from my front door. I scouted 15 or 16 days during the summer and right before my season. I hunted 17 out of the first 22 days before I saw a legal ram. I killed him on the 23 day of my 28 day season at the start of my 4th week in the hills. I had trained hard and lost 10 pounds scouting and hiking that summer. I was thinking I was in pretty good shape. I lost 17 more pounds in the 22 days of my hunt. I hunted alone 90% of the time. The long hard days and short cold nights took their toll on me mentally. I was wiped out after a week after 2 weeks I was wondering if I hard the guts to pull this off. I regrouped and head out for my 3rd week and still no luck. I really started doubting myself at the start of week 4 and then it all came together.
I finally spotted 2 nice rams in a stalkable area. I spent another sleepless night waiting for the next morning to start my stalk. Long story short I arrowed a ram and made a less than perfect hit. Just when I was thinking my hunt was over I was now pushing myself 10x harder tracking my ram. It took over 24 hours to find him but I kept after the track and pushed myself well past what I ever dreamed it would take to harvest a trophy of a lifetime. I learned a lot about myself and I can always look back and compare some of life?s ?little? challenges to my sheep hunt and say as long as it's not as hard as my sheep hunt I can accomplish it.
http://www.bowsite.com/bstrophy/details.cfm?trophyid=871
PleaseDear
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Thanks guys, that CD-ROM has been tempting to me for tha last couple years.
I'm not sure what he is going to do as far as a guide goes?? I know 'Captian Kirk', from my home state, on the bowsite had the tag the year of the fire closures and hunted S-9 the next year.
For every person that has a grueling, long, draining hunt there is someone with the same unit/tag that gets a first day harvest so it is a challenge for him to decide what to do.....money isn't an issue for him.
Didn't 'hornhunter' end up coming up and helping you find your arrow-wounded Ram?? Thats great ya stuck with it and found him, he is a real nice Ram.
Thanks for your help and input.....anyone got a couple of areas with in S-9 to do some software map surfing?? to have a look see??
I'm not sure what he is going to do as far as a guide goes?? I know 'Captian Kirk', from my home state, on the bowsite had the tag the year of the fire closures and hunted S-9 the next year.
For every person that has a grueling, long, draining hunt there is someone with the same unit/tag that gets a first day harvest so it is a challenge for him to decide what to do.....money isn't an issue for him.
Didn't 'hornhunter' end up coming up and helping you find your arrow-wounded Ram?? Thats great ya stuck with it and found him, he is a real nice Ram.
Thanks for your help and input.....anyone got a couple of areas with in S-9 to do some software map surfing?? to have a look see??
Bluehair
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I can't add much that hasn't already been said, except to emphasize that I don't think you can get in good enough shape to make a Sangria sheep hunt pleasant.
I have a friend who guides bowhunters in the Sangrias for sheep. Send me a PM if you want his contact info. We all talk a big game, but when the time comes your friend may find himself alone. Sane people don't go into the Sangrias for the fun of it. ;-)
Here's a pic of my ram from there (if image station is working today). I'm not a good photographer, and besides it was getting ready to start lightnining again.
I have a friend who guides bowhunters in the Sangrias for sheep. Send me a PM if you want his contact info. We all talk a big game, but when the time comes your friend may find himself alone. Sane people don't go into the Sangrias for the fun of it. ;-)
Here's a pic of my ram from there (if image station is working today). I'm not a good photographer, and besides it was getting ready to start lightnining again.
D
DeerKing
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Robb
It a torturous, brutal, dangerous, wonderful place all at the same time. I seriously can't imagine a much harder place to hunt. I'll send you and email.
It a torturous, brutal, dangerous, wonderful place all at the same time. I seriously can't imagine a much harder place to hunt. I'll send you and email.
PleaseDear,
You have a very good memory. Hornhunter did help me track my ram. I met him and his wife at the Hunters Orientation the year I drew. I kept in touch and kept bugging them after very scouting trip. I also called and emailed them after each segment of my hunt. He knew the area VERY well since he lives near there and had killed a nice ram on the last day of his 30 day season.
He knew how much time I had put in and how much finding my ram meant to me. So he offered to help track even though he had just finished a month long archery elk hunt in unit 10 that went to the last day. He had spent the two days before helping me track my ram packing out his 320+ bull alone. I'm not sure I ever would have found my ram without Hornhunter. We guessed my ram only lived 20 or so minutes after I shot him but he covered a bunch of ground in thick timber. Hornhunter's motto was R D P aka relentless dogass pursuit. It mean hunting hard everyday dawn to dusk no matter what the weather. It means hunting hard until the last minute on the last day of the season.
For his help he recieved a free lifetime supply of beer from me.
So far he has done a decent job of getting repayed.
Sandbrew
You have a very good memory. Hornhunter did help me track my ram. I met him and his wife at the Hunters Orientation the year I drew. I kept in touch and kept bugging them after very scouting trip. I also called and emailed them after each segment of my hunt. He knew the area VERY well since he lives near there and had killed a nice ram on the last day of his 30 day season.
He knew how much time I had put in and how much finding my ram meant to me. So he offered to help track even though he had just finished a month long archery elk hunt in unit 10 that went to the last day. He had spent the two days before helping me track my ram packing out his 320+ bull alone. I'm not sure I ever would have found my ram without Hornhunter. We guessed my ram only lived 20 or so minutes after I shot him but he covered a bunch of ground in thick timber. Hornhunter's motto was R D P aka relentless dogass pursuit. It mean hunting hard everyday dawn to dusk no matter what the weather. It means hunting hard until the last minute on the last day of the season.
For his help he recieved a free lifetime supply of beer from me.
So far he has done a decent job of getting repayed.
Sandbrew
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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For some reason I thought you had the S-32 tag.....and his tag was the 2nd go round in S-32 with the Raffle tag he won?? Anyways great story and great ethics to get your Ram recovered.
N
NMRaptor
Guest
Thats a nice ram!
-Raptor
-Raptor
D
DonV
Guest
That is a great ram and a great picture, thanks for posting. Dreaming of ram tags that could have been.....
M
muddy_spud
Guest
Here is another Sangre ram. This one is from S08 in 2002. He was a bit short but heavy and carried his mass well. I took him after looking at 19 other legal rams during the season and several others preseason. I believe he is representative of the potential of the area.
Harry
Harry
HunterHarry
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WOW MIKE!
Great Ram!
We as hunters sometimes forget that there is country so rough and dangerous that we might not come back alive!
What an accomplishment to succeed with such a nice ram.
Those thunderstorms can be unnerving,I was in my little spike tent years ago in the Greys river country of Wyoming and just knew I was going to get fried alive.BIG bolts of lightning and deafening blasts of thunder. I'll never forget it!
Anyway Congrats on that great rocky and best of luck on that desert hunt!
HH
Great Ram!
We as hunters sometimes forget that there is country so rough and dangerous that we might not come back alive!
What an accomplishment to succeed with such a nice ram.
Those thunderstorms can be unnerving,I was in my little spike tent years ago in the Greys river country of Wyoming and just knew I was going to get fried alive.BIG bolts of lightning and deafening blasts of thunder. I'll never forget it!
Anyway Congrats on that great rocky and best of luck on that desert hunt!
HH
M
muddy_spud
Guest
Buckspy,
That ram is an S08 ram. S08 and S09 are in my estimation very similar units. The major differences that I have seen are a tendency for the rams from S08 to be have heavier horns although typically shorter from similar aged rams. (My ram taped 32 4/8 and 33 0/8 with bases of 15 7/8 and 15 6/8 bases at 8 years old.) Also, since S08 is so much smaller in size than S09, it is easier to scout the majority of the unit and have an better idea of knowing what the top rams in the unit are. Elevation, terrain and the method of hunting are very similar and in both units. Including where my ram was killed, access can be severely limited by private property which I think is a good thing.
There seems to be a sentiment that the Sangre's are a hard hunt but I like them for deer, elk and sheep for two reasons. First, I know them and second they do provide some trophy potential because they do, at least in some areas, allow animals to reach a higher level of maturity than many other more accessible areas.
Good luck with your upcoming Desert hunt. I am envious.
Harry
That ram is an S08 ram. S08 and S09 are in my estimation very similar units. The major differences that I have seen are a tendency for the rams from S08 to be have heavier horns although typically shorter from similar aged rams. (My ram taped 32 4/8 and 33 0/8 with bases of 15 7/8 and 15 6/8 bases at 8 years old.) Also, since S08 is so much smaller in size than S09, it is easier to scout the majority of the unit and have an better idea of knowing what the top rams in the unit are. Elevation, terrain and the method of hunting are very similar and in both units. Including where my ram was killed, access can be severely limited by private property which I think is a good thing.
There seems to be a sentiment that the Sangre's are a hard hunt but I like them for deer, elk and sheep for two reasons. First, I know them and second they do provide some trophy potential because they do, at least in some areas, allow animals to reach a higher level of maturity than many other more accessible areas.
Good luck with your upcoming Desert hunt. I am envious.
Harry
Thanks Harry. I finally got the tag in the mail on Friday and its in the gun safe. We are going down there over the Memorial day weekend and camping out with Bluehair and his tribe and going to have a look/see at some desert sheep hopefully.
I agree completely with your assesment that animals get older in the Sangres because of the terrain. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have as great of a genetic potential to have exceptional antlers and horns with age like some other areas of the state. There are lots of "knife and fork" canyons in the Sangres for backpack hunters. My buddy couldn't believe the bulls we saw during my sheep hunt and wanted to go back after them in the gun season. I told him he was on his own if he killed a bull in the spot we were in. About 9 hours from the trailhead.
I agree completely with your assesment that animals get older in the Sangres because of the terrain. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have as great of a genetic potential to have exceptional antlers and horns with age like some other areas of the state. There are lots of "knife and fork" canyons in the Sangres for backpack hunters. My buddy couldn't believe the bulls we saw during my sheep hunt and wanted to go back after them in the gun season. I told him he was on his own if he killed a bull in the spot we were in. About 9 hours from the trailhead.
R
ridgetop
Guest
Great pics of some great rams! Thanks for posting them guys!
The Sangres are steep???? You definately earn anything that comes from the top of there!
The Sangres are steep????
You definately earn anything that comes from the top of there!
