Climate Talk?s Cancellation

T

TFinalshot

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Had to post this as it's in my "hood". . .

January 17, 2008
Climate Talk?s Cancellation Splits a Town
By JIM ROBBINS


CHOTEAU, Mont. ? School authorities? cancellation of a talk that a Nobel laureate climate researcher was to have given to high school students has deeply divided this small farming and ranching town at the base of the east side of the Rocky Mountains.

The scholar, Steven W. Running, a professor of ecology at the University of Montana, was scheduled to speak to about 130 students here last Thursday about his career and the global changes occurring because of the earth?s warming.

Dr. Running was a lead author of a global warming report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the 400-member United Nations body that shared last year?s Nobel Peace Prize with former Vice President Al Gore. But when some residents complained that his presentation here would be one-sided because no opposing view would be offered, the superintendent of Choteau School District No. 1, Kevin St. John, canceled it. Dr. Running was surprised.

"Disbelief was the primary reaction," he said in a telephone interview. "I've never been canceled before. But it was almost comical. I had a pretty candid discussion with the superintendent and the school board, and they said there were some conservative citizens who didn't want me to speak."

Mr. St. John said that numerous residents had complained to school board members and that they in turn had suggested that the program be called off.

Those who complained misunderstood the content of the talk, Mr. St. John said, but there was no time to explain to all of them that Dr. Running was a leading scientist rather than an agenda-driven ideologue.

"It was my failure to articulate who he is and what he was here for," the superintendent said. "He?s a Nobel scientist, highly distinguished, but people thought he was something else. Academic freedom is very important here, and science education is very important here."

Still, as in much of the West, Choteau is home to a deep-seated mistrust of environmentalism, which many here see as a threat to their agricultural way of life. The town has also been largely on the pro-development side of a long and sometimes bitter battle over whether to exploit oil and gas reserves along the wild Rocky Mountain front or to preserve it primarily for wilderness and wildlife.

Finally, there is the raw politics of the matter. Dr. Running specializes in an issue associated with Mr. Gore, not a popular figure among many in this predominantly Republican town.
But Mr. St. John said he had in no way intended to censor Dr. Running, who in fact presented a previously scheduled evening lecture on climate change at the high school the day he was to have spoken during school hours. Only a handful of students were among the 140 or so people at the evening talk, however, because it coincided with a high school basketball game, a big source of entertainment in small-town Montana. Dr. Running did not mention the cancellation or the resulting controversy in his presentation, "The Five Stages of Climate Grief," which was sponsored by the Sonoran Institute, an environmental group.
The first two of the five stages are denial and anger, Dr. Running said in the phone interview, so he understands the opposition to his addressing the students.

The controversy here intensified when a local student's article criticizing school officials was published Monday on the student-created "Class Act Page" of The Great Falls Tribune, a statewide daily.

"I was insulted as a high school student prepared to enter the world I need to hear both sides of the story," the student, Kip Barhaugh, 17, said in an interview Tuesday. "I don't feel there is another side. Global warming is not a controversial issue, it's a fact. We need to be prepared to deal with it."
People on Main Street here were divided over the cancellation. Melody Martinsen, the editor of The Choteau Acantha, a local weekly, said that while she rarely received letters to the editor, "this week I have nine and seven are on the subject, and they are all chastising the school board."

Kirk Moore, the owner of a farm and ranch store, is a school board member who favored canceling the talk. But he declined to say why. "No comment," Mr. Moore said. "Go talk to the superintendent."

Jill Owen, the owner of an organic grocery and bookstore, wrote a letter to the school board that opposed the cancellation. "We were disappointed the school board would turn down an opportunity for a Nobel laureate to speak," Ms. Owen said. "We need to inspire kids in math and science, and it would have been great."
Dr. Running, 57, said high school students were an important audience for his message about climate change. "Our generation caused the problem," he said, "and I want to talk to high schools because they are the generation that will solve the problem. And we can't solve the problem without a free discussion."
 
>
>Dr. Running, 57, said high school
>students were an important audience
>for his message about climate
>change. "Our generation caused the
>problem," he said, "and I
>want to talk to high
>schools because they are the
>generation that will solve the
>problem. And we can't solve
>the problem without a free
>discussion."

T final I hate to say this but the last sentence in this article sums up why he was canceled. How can there be free discussion with a man that has already made up his mind. He was not coming to the school for discussion he was coming for indoctrination of young minds. He has a political and monetary driven agenda T. The town was right, they should present both sides and let the students have free discussion.




?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
Guess What 202 I disagree with you! Now please don't quit we've disagreed before. Todays smart kids are a lot more savy than you think they don't believe everything put before them. You think it easy to indoctrinate a 17 year old in anything, you haven't been around many. What a lost opportunity to hear a nobel laurete speak. The dumb kids would sleep through the whole thing and then post on a site like MM. The smart kids would listen and then decide if it was b.s.. We had a speaker a few years ago one of the 6,000 year old earth guys that evolution didn't happen virtually all students saw through that immediately. The really nice think was the ACLU slapped the district around a little for allowing that because it was in a religious format. Still puts a smile on my face.
 
Interesting, if it were my hometown probably the same thing would have happened, since we aren't sure it's best to err on the side of destruction. how awful would that be if 5 years from now we realized we'ld cut pollution more than we absolutly had to.

Corn since the bible says the world , or universe was created about 6,000 years ago as I understand it the ACLU should jail anyone allowed to bring that into the class room. yet most of the same people who say global warming is a farse believe anything before 6-10 thousand years ago is impossible. sometimes all I can say is holly crap.
 
So CORN what is wrong with presenting both sides of the issue.................could it be because you have made up your mind too......................and you guys say the right is closed minded......................give me a break.

And Dude would'nt it be horrible if you had to go back to horse and plow or better yet go out of business over something man can not control?


?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
What exactly is Dr. Running presenting that is not available with the click of a mouse?

I let my oldest see Fahrenheit 911 just so she could make her own mind up about what is going on. She is a Sophmore now and in two years she will be out of the house and in college having to decide for herself what she believes. I want her to be exposed to different ideas now so it isn't a shock to her then.

I guess I trust my own kids to figure out what is right rather then hide ideas from them.

Nemont
 
Maybe I mis-understood the article but from what I gathered they wren't trying to hide ideas from anyone. They simply wanted them to have the opposing side as well. I don't think that's a bad idea. Show them both sides and let them decide. Isn't that the way we vote on elections?? Unless you are trying to convince someone of your way of thought and don't want any criticism from an opposing believer, I don't see why this would bother you.
 
202 I like how confident you are with your stand that man has nothing to do with it, if I had your PHD's and private lab with your staff of climatoligist I may feel the same way.

In the end you're right, just like the national debt it isn't going to effect me in my lifetime much so let someone else worry about it later.
 
>202 I like how confident you
>are with your stand that
>man has nothing to do
>with it


Why thank you Hdude :)

?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
202 I think you should present both sides of an issue if two debateable sides occur, on global warming this issue fine bring in the other sides that says it is naturally occuring.

On the earth being 6,000 years old and that evolution didn't occur their is no other side that is just fanatic literate interpretation of the Bible. No debate. Besides it religion in school can't occur.

When you have a speaker who was in a camp in the holocaust speak do you invite a Neo-Nazi to debate him on whether the holocaust actually occureds? No I think not too much evidence it did occur.
 
"When you have a speaker who was in a camp in the holocaust speak do you invite a Neo-Nazi to debate him on whether the holocaust actually occureds? No I think not too much evidence it did occur."

Comparing global warming/creationism to the holocaust is absurd! The first two are "unknowns'/theories, the other is an event people alive today witnessed/survived. That is as weak as Al Gore comparing doubters of the world being round to those who doubt the causes/effects of climate warming.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Pro you don't believe in evolution , you actually think the world was just " POOF " and everything appeared? Otay

There's plenty of room for debate on global warming but evolution is a fact not a theory, com'on.
 
Let me put this simple Pro if you think the earth is 6,000 years old and evolution is just a theory YOU ARE WRONG. You're also closer than you think to the people that insist the holocaust didn't happen. All the evidence says they both happened end of story. I was trying to make the point debate is only possible on reasonably debateable things Global Warming is one where debate is possible. Try to read and comprehend what is being written.
 
Cornhusker, correct me if I am wrong, I'm sure you will, but isn't it Darwin's THEORY of evolution? You won't here me say the earth is only 6000 years old, nor have I EVER implied that it is. Point is, evolution and how/when it started is a THEORY, just as the causes/effects of climate changes is a THEORY. The earth be round has been PROVEN, as has the Holocaust. There are NO rational people who deny the Holocaust, there are MANY 'rational' people who disagree on the causes/effects of global warming. See the difference?

You said: "You're also closer than you think to the people that insist the holocaust didn't happen."

What is that supposed to mean? Please explain! I sure hope I am taking it wrong!!!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Most scientific principles start as theories until empirical evidence is gathered and analyzed that has happened over the last 100 years on Darwin's theory of Evolution. Which is accepted by reasonable people that have some scientific background. Watch the Scopes Monkey Trial on the History Channel some time. Nebraskan William Jenning Bryan was chopped up like fish bait argueing against evolution. Clarence Darrow made him look foolish that was in the 1920's.

What I meant when I posted "you're also closer than you think to the people that insist the holocaust didn't happen." is that no matter how much evidence is shown it can always be denied as a possibility it didn't happen because their isn't quite enough evidence. That wasn't meant to offend or personally attack you. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers.
 
"their isn't quite enough evidence"


There is living proof. Hardly comparable to global warming.
 
Still not enough for some people living proof is lying is the response. I'm not sure you read where this started or if I know where you're going.
 
Huntindude is right! It is way easier to think that the bigbang started everything. 80 trillion years later we all evolved into us. There is no way that a supreme being created this amazing planet. No way some greater plan is now happening. It was just a split second accident that brings us elk and sunrises and that small of my wifes neck and the birth of my kids(that took way longer than a second). If our orbit moves even FEET in either direction we all fry or freeze. accident? It makes soooo much more sense that we all are lucky to not be moose sperm or seagulls. And as for Global warming, we have only been keeping acurate records for 500 years out of how many million evolution zealots? Couldnt be part of any cycle could it. Because mankind is always right. You will never put a man on the moon or run a 4 minute mile and the earth is flat, remember? Maybe it is getting warmer and Maybe we caused part of it, but it's awful arrogant to think that is the ONLY way it can be! I can't believe husker and dude even hunt or eat meat. It's so unethical and politically uncorrect. Ya'll must drive electric cars and shoot unleaded bullets. Free thought is great but what makes your's right and ours wrong?
 
Strange rant but, whatever.

Evolution can be proven beyond the burdon of proof needed to convict a person in court, besides the fact it's common sense.

All your creation theory has going for it is a book and people affaid to question it. that and......well that's it.

You're free to practice what ever religion you wish it's your right, some of us prefer facts and value reality and that's our right.

Case in point since this is a hunting site, do you know what the ivories in an elk are the remainder of? hint: it involves evolution. another point since the famous John Day fossil beds are just east of me I've spent quite a bit of time there and I can promise you the fossils are more than 6,000 years old, in fact the prehistoric horse fossils are millions of years old and guess what? they don't look much like my quarter horses, wow that's freaky huh? no way to explain that now is there?
 
bigbuckchaser with respect just because you believe in evolution it doesn't mean you don't believe in God. I believe in God and my religion acknowledges that evolution with the strong evidence shown is a very distinct possibility. I believe in evoulution whose to say it wasn't in the grand scheme of things that god created. I'm all done on this thread it's been beaten to death. Best Wishes!
 
Evolution has never ever ever ever been proven you two and you know it. There are way to many holes in the THEORY. Evolution is a THEORY bone heads and don't try and play it off as fact.

Dude your horse theory is weak my friend. Todays horses are a product of DOMESTICATION. I do see your point problem is your analogy is weak.




?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
TFinal, thanks for the story! I hope that our media takes note of the statement this small town in Montana has made. Americans want objectivity!

Bring in Bill Gray from Colorado State University and have him debate this guy and you would have something real where these students could listen objectively and start to form opinions.

In 1975 Newsweek ran an article that whipped up a different fear: a coming ice age.

"Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change. ... The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality."

Sound familiar? I personally thank God, the one that HD doesnt believe in, that we didnt do anything back then to put an end to "Global Cooling"! You think we're hot now, imagine what it would have been had we wanted to "change" it!

The media should take note of what happened in this town in Montana. They should allow for other viewpoints. All you ever see is Al Gore and a few other scientists talking about global warming over and over again. You never see the media be objective and talk with one of the MANY scientists that wholeheartedly disagree with the premise of Global Warming. Put them up for debate on prime time television!

I want to see objectivity, I dont want to listen to the same scentists that announced in 1975 that "Global Cooling" was going to change our world talk today about "Global Warming"! Its kind of like Pavlov's Dog, you trained them to know that if they threw out a doomsday theory then the grant money would keep pouring in and they would still have a job. All the media talks about is Al Gore, inventor of the internet, and all he has done for society by bringing this issue to the forefront and a few scientists, many of them making the liberal media circuit over and over again talk about global warming. Its frustrating to see this play out again and again.

Dont get me wrong, I am all for alternative fuels, cleaner air and enegry effeciency and independence but this "its the end of the world" bullshit is so old its not even funny!




> All your creation theory has
>going for it is a
>book and people affaid to
>question it. that and......well that's
>it.

HD, this is a whole new bag of issues here. I feel sorry for you if your a non-believer. I have had God in my life since I can remember but there are 2 occasions that stand out in my life that reaffirm my belief in him. They are far to personal and special for me to share on an internet forum with people that would potentially try to belittle them an try to tell me that it was nothing more than sheer coincedence. If you have never had a moment in your life where you knew in you heart and soul that God was so real and right there so close to you in that moment then I am truly sorry because its life changing. All I can say is that you and all non-believers are in my prayers.

Drum





dan-henderson_wanderlei-silva.gif
 
"its the end of the world" bullshit is so old its not even funny!

Hsonora, I respect your view and your opinions, but would you mind showing me where, ever you have seen this in print or in audio,

"its the end of the world" bullshit is so old its not even funny!

Please, show us where you get this idea other than from religious fanatics. In all due respect to you and Christianity, If I'm not mistaken, most Christians believe the "end" is near, in fact some even, to this day, prepare for it to occure at any moment. I'm not capping on christians, i'm just looking at the evidence, and there is NO evidence that the end of th world is near, in fact, there is only evidence that suggest, as far as the world is concerned, things wont change all that much. . .

On the otherhand, there are mountains of evidence that suggests even to the most uninformed (me) that many christians believe the end is near. Moreover, I'm sure that there were many many "believers" that have wrongly predicted the end of the world.

After Armageddon -

After the destruction of the Beast at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, the promised Kingdom is set up, in which Messiah will rule for a literal 1,000 years, along with the Saints. A final test is given. Satan is loosed "for a season" and goes out to deceive the nations, specifically, Gog and Magog. [18] The army mentioned attacks the Saints in the New Jerusalem, they are defeated by a judgment of fire coming down from Heaven, and then comes the Great White Throne judgment, which includes all of those through the ages [19] and these are cast into the Lake of Fire, which event is also known as the "second death". Pentecost describes this thusly:

"The destiny of the lost is a place in the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20; 20:10, 14-15; 21:8). This lake of fire is described as everlasting fire (Matt. 25:41;[20] 18:8[21]) and as unquenchable fire (Mark 9:43-44[22], 46, 48)[23]), emphasizing the eternal character of retribution of the lost." (p. 555)

The last two chapters of Revelation, [24] deal with the New Heavens and the New Earth.

So, can you address these facts and more importantly the contradiction between your end of the world views?


"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Global warming is real thet's a 100% fact, the debate on what's causing it is pretty well proven to be green house gases but we have room for debate on that. . Ronald Regan is a god to many of you anti global warming experts and the man he put in charge on the issue while he was president and still studies it insist global warming IS man caused without a doubt. did you see the show on CBS last night? how many people know the guy Bush put in charge of censoring the report to congress on global warming was an oil company lobbyist? he's now back working for Exxon , talk about fair and unbiased politics.

202 you have got to be kidding me, I'm not trying to run your religion down but at least admit life has existed and evolved on this planet for millions of years, not 6,000 but many millions anything less insults both of our intelligence, mainly yours. reality must be acknowledged in science and in our schools, churches are built to teach religion and nobody has a problem with that.

Drum, no I have never had a feeling as you're talking about. my grandfather used to talk about the great spirit when I was a kid and I suppose I can relate to that in some way. the native American beliefs are that we are part of the earth like all creatures not the controllers or the owners , and of a much kinder and fair great spirit. if I was inclined to be religeous that makes much more sense to me.
 
You guys ALL need to take a few days off and go fishing!

All this banter has gone on since man learned to talk and none of it has has changed.....except the specific topic. People have their own beliefs and most of the time are not willing to change.(Same reason why we will NEVER bring democracy to the world of Islam.)

There is an old saying that "there are always two truths".

My New Years resolution: NEVER......open up another post started by Tfinal. It will be too much BS for even my 2 BS degrees.....
 

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