Cheatgrass 101

E

elkfromabove

Very Active Member
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Most mule deer hunters have heard of cheatgrass, but aren't sure why it's called that and have no idea how it affects wildlife, especially mule deer. This thread, hopefully, will be a discussion about it's vicious affects on mule deer (and other species).

To begin, let's talk about the lifecycle. Unlike most plants, it sprouts late fall or early winter. It's usually the first green plant the deer see and are able to utilize, but it isn't very palatable, digestible, nor nutritious. And it stays green only for 6 to 8 weeks which sometimes doesn't give the deer enough time to gather/develop the small organisms needed to convert the cellulose to sugars, but it's the only thing that's green. (It reminds me of StarTrek's Data who analyzed a drink, but all he could come up with was, "It's green!") It dries very quickly and becomes fuel for spring fires.
 
When I Was A Kid They Were RAILING & CHAINING To Help Habitat & Feed!

Guess What?

That Didn't Work & The Cheat Grass Came Back 10 Times Worse!

Them Somebody Thought It Was A GREAT Idea To Kill The SageBrush!

That Didn't Help & Actually Killed Feed For The Deer!

Maybe In Our Next Life Somebody Is Gonna Do Something Smart?
 
EFA hopefully this thread stays on track.
Could you please educate me more.
How long has it been around?
I assume from what I have heard it takes over more and more?
Does it occur when an area has been chained?
 
eyeman said:
EFA hopefully this thread stays on track.
Could you please educate me more.
How long has it been around?
I assume from what I have heard it takes over more and more?
Does it occur when an area has been chained?
Click to expand...
I hope it stays on track as well. There's an awful lot to learn about it and it can't be taught or learned in a short thread. Cheatgrass showed up in America during the 1800's as a contaminant of seed, straw, and hay cargo from Europe and Asia. It was first known to come to Utah about 1890, so it's been here a while. At first it was accepted because it filled a time and many places where no native grasses would grow, but it didn't take long to realize it was taking over the places where the native grasses could grow.
 
Cheat grass is an early successional (invader) plant that thrives in areas with (soil) disturbance. That's why it takes over in chainings, fires, or where heavy grazing has occurred. Its highly prolific and burns easily, thus pushing out our native plants and creating a self perpetuating monoculture. Once established, its really hard to get rid of. For many here, this all common knowledge.
 
Hackleback said:
Cheat grass is an early successional (invader) plant that thrives in areas with (soil) disturbance. That's why it takes over in chainings, fires, or where heavy grazing has occurred. Its highly prolific and burns easily, thus pushing out our native plants and creating a self perpetuating monoculture. Once established, its really hard to get rid of. For many here, this all common knowledge.
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You're probably right that what you've correctly stated is common knowledge, but what may not be common knowledge is, HOW does it manage to create a self-perpetuating monoculture and WHY is it so hard to get rid of?
 
It's highly prolific (a ton of hardy viable seeds) and its a cool season grass so gets a jump on the natives (as mentioned above, it will start growing late fall into the winder (if mild)) taking advantage of the moisture the great basin gets in the winter.
 
I've pretty much devoted most of my career to cheatgrass research, monitoring, and long-term control efforts. Here is a link to some of our work in Colorado. We are in the process of getting the mule deer browse and diversity data published.

Cheatgrass vs Mule Deer | Mule Deer

There's been a number of posts recently with concern about the decline in mule deer across the Western US. I thought I would share some of the results we've generated the past couple years for long-term cheatgrass control. Some of the oldest long-term areas we sprayed 7+ years ago still have...
www.monstermuleys.info www.monstermuleys.info
 
Here is information on what's going on in Sublette County, Wyoming and in Idaho.

www.wlfw.org

Holding the Line: Defending Wyoming’s Sagebrush Cores from Cheatgrass | Working Lands For Wildlife

Sublette County, Wyoming has successfully treated more than 97,000 acres of cheatgrass, protecting core sagebrush habitat.
www.wlfw.org www.wlfw.org

www.wlfw.org

Idaho Launches the Cheatgrass Challenge | Working Lands For Wildlife

The USDA-NRCS Working Lands for Wildlife and Sage Grouse Initiative are proud to help announce Idaho’s Cheatgrass Challenge. The Challenge provides a powerful example of how data from our Rangeland Analysis Platform can be used to map rangeland threats and implement a proactive strategy for...
www.wlfw.org www.wlfw.org

Cheatgrass Challenge defends native core habitat in Idaho – Idaho Rangeland Resource Commission

idrange.org idrange.org
 
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elkassassin said:
Kinda Like Morning Glory?
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No, it's very different. It only sends it's roots down about 12 inches.
Betterluckythangood said:
What areas in Utah are being sprayed this year so we can follow along and observe the next few years? I heard of one on the news but can’t remember where. If that is known yet
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I'm gonna hafta go the Southern DWR Office or MDF website the get that information. I understand it's a joint effort.
 
I think you’ll find that cheatgrass efforts in Utah and Nevada are a little behind some of the other states. The BLM, forest service, and land managers are starting to take notice of the long-term positive impacts in surrounding states. These other states have taken full advantage of large grant funding to improve wildlife habitat.

If you happen to travel to the Front Range in Colorado be sure to contact me. I’m always exciting to show off our properties and work! The wildflowers are just starting to bloom and the diversity of native plants is amazing!
 
Homer said:
no cheatgrass....no chukars......anyone else ever heard that?
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or Huns! Yes, I've certainly heard that, especially from a very good friend of mine that has dogs. Since they too are non-native imports from the same areas, they didn't have to adapt much. Fortunately, most of the chukar habitat is too rocky and steep to worry about and most of the cheatgrass seeds are eaten anyway. I don't think we need to deal with EVERY acre that may have cheatgrass. Some may provide coverage and help prevent erosion. In any case, we need to deal with summer and winter ranges and chukar habitat is neither. It's just a traveling area between the two.
 
I've heard about chukar and cheatgrass. While cheatgrass and wildfire may benefit chukar, this comes at the expense of mule deer, antelope, elk, rabbits, and a host of other native wildlife.

The complete opposite is true with cheatgrass and nearly threatened and endangered sage grouse. Unlike chukar, sage grouse are native to North America! One of the biggest threats to sage grouse is fine-fueled cheatgrass wildfires that wipe out thousands of acres of sagebrush.

My guess is that if you are a chukar hunter with dogs in chukar/cheatgrass country you may have high vet bills from cheatgrass?


www.blm.gov

Fish and Wildlife: Sage-grouse | Bureau of Land Management

The BLM manages the largest single share of greater sage-grouse habitat in the United States – nearly 67 million of 145 million acres total. These same lands sustain Western rural economies built on outdoor recreation, ranching, farming, energy development and small businesses, and are critical...
www.blm.gov www.blm.gov

extension.oregonstate.edu

What’s on the menu? Grouse groceries in areas with cheatgrass

Healthy sagebrush rangelands provide a bounty of foods for sage-grouse. Sage-grouse browse for different foods during different times of year and periods of their lives. Not all rangelands provide equal quality forage for sage-grouse.
extension.oregonstate.edu extension.oregonstate.edu

projectupland.com

The Dangers of Cheatgrass and Dogs

Tiny grass seeds can cause enormous health problems for hunting dogs without better prevention or awareness of the risks of cheatgrass.
projectupland.com projectupland.com
 
jims said:
I've heard about chukar and cheatgrass. While cheatgrass and wildfire may benefit chukar, this comes at the expense of mule deer, antelope, elk, rabbits, and a host of other native wildlife.

The complete opposite is true with cheatgrass and nearly threatened and endangered sage grouse. Unlike chukar, sage grouse are native to North America! One of the biggest threats to sage grouse is fine-fueled cheatgrass wildfires that wipe out thousands of acres of sagebrush.

My guess is that if you are a chukar hunter with dogs in chukar/cheatgrass country you may have high vet bills from cheatgrass?


www.blm.gov

Fish and Wildlife: Sage-grouse | Bureau of Land Management

The BLM manages the largest single share of greater sage-grouse habitat in the United States – nearly 67 million of 145 million acres total. These same lands sustain Western rural economies built on outdoor recreation, ranching, farming, energy development and small businesses, and are critical...
www.blm.gov www.blm.gov

extension.oregonstate.edu

What’s on the menu? Grouse groceries in areas with cheatgrass

Healthy sagebrush rangelands provide a bounty of foods for sage-grouse. Sage-grouse browse for different foods during different times of year and periods of their lives. Not all rangelands provide equal quality forage for sage-grouse.
extension.oregonstate.edu extension.oregonstate.edu

projectupland.com

The Dangers of Cheatgrass and Dogs

Tiny grass seeds can cause enormous health problems for hunting dogs without better prevention or awareness of the risks of cheatgrass.
projectupland.com projectupland.com
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Those nasty little seeds also wedge themselves it the eyes, ears, nose, teeth and between the split hoofs of ungulates and though they may not actually cause infections, they do hinder the senses of game animals who can't just pluck them out.
 
Lions, bears, covid, wolverines, democrats, wolves, CWD, chupacabras, hippies, and cheatgrass. Jeezuz…..I’m scared to go outside now. :rolleyes:

And I got blamed for being a drama queen.
 
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Bluehair said:
Lions, bears, covid, wolverines, democrats, wolves, CWD, chupacabras, hippies, and cheatgrass. Jeezuz…..I’m scared to go outside now. :rolleyes:

And I got blamed for being a drama queen.
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That's right! Just stay home and get on the internet. That'll calm you down!:ROFLMAO:
 
elkfromabove said:
That's right! Just stay home and get on the internet. That'll calm you down!:ROFLMAO:
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I’m boarding up the windows right now because I’m surrounded by cheatgrass.

Efa, you might want to step away from the keyboard yourself……or at least not get whipped into a frenzy with jims over cheatgrass. You tend to eggzadura8te.

I suspect I’ve picked more cheatgrass outa my socks than either you or jims - because he obviously works in a Level 9 HAZMAT suit considering the risks. I don’t even wear a mask when I mow the weeds :oops:

I’ve taken a dog or two to the vet to get a burr taken out of their ear, but if mule deer are dieing because they got a cheatgrass sticker in their footsie, then they deserve to be heaped on the evolutionary trash pile.

But again, I fully support spraying. Just spray the invasive people that are causing cheatgrass while you’re at it.

Ironically, I’m watching a half dozen deer snacking on the cheatgrass right now.:)
 
I could care less about CWD, wolf and wolverine intros, and democrats but see on a daily basis all of the ecological benefits to long-term cheatgrass control.

I can guarantee that the only reason the deer are browsing cheatgrass is because they don’t have any high nutrition native forb and other browse available. Bluehair, do you happen to know the nutrition value of cheatgrass this time of year vs native forbs, sub-shrubs, and shrubs that are sprouting and greening up where cheatgrass has been controlled?

The deer, elk, small mammal, bird, amphibians, and reptiles I have been monitoring for the past 5 years with game cameras definitely disagree with your preference to cheatgrass statement!
 
jims said:
I could care less about CWD, wolf and wolverine intros, and democrats but see on a daily basis all of the ecological benefits to long-term cheatgrass control.

I can guarantee that the only reason the deer are browsing cheatgrass is because they don’t have any high nutrition native forb and other browse available. Bluehair, do you happen to know the nutrition value of cheatgrass this time of year vs native forbs, sub-shrubs, and shrubs that are sprouting and greening up where cheatgrass has been controlled?

The deer, elk, small mammal, bird, amphibians, and reptiles I have been monitoring for the past 5 years with game cameras definitely disagree with your preference to cheatgrass statement!
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BS, your guarantee is worth squat. I GUARANDAMNTEE you that barbed wire has killed more muleys than cheatgrass stickers in their hooves.

You simply don’t know what you’re talking about re mule deer habits. These deer aren’t starving or malnourished and it’s nonsense like this that ruins the credibility of your arguments. Go back to telling us how mustard gas cures CWD.
 
How about some Colorado cheatgrass facts? 5,279 acres infested in 2016 (last data available). Here’s the map. 5,279/66,678,400 = 0.00007917, or 0.008% of the state.

Yeah, that’s what’s killing the deer :rolleyes:

Downy brome | Department of Agriculture

(Bromus tectorum)
ag.colorado.gov ag.colorado.gov
IMG_3347.png
 
I hate to break the news but just about every county in Colorado has more than 5,000 acres of cheatgrass. Cheatgrass must have really spread since 2016 because we have sprayed over 4,000 acres just on our properties in northern Colorado that according to the survey had 0 cheatgrass in 2016! The counties to the north and south of us have sprayed similar acreages.

I don't think I can lie about the preference of animals showing up on game cameras in cheatgrass sprayed vs immediately adjacent sites where native forbs, shrub, grass food resources increases and cover increase.

What also is amazing is that I'm finding more predator presence in sites without cheatgrass. This is obviously in response to more mice, rabbits, and other desirable predator food sources. The number of bobcats, skunks, mtn lions, coyotes, and even mink are higher in cheatgrass sprayed sites.

I won't even respond to the mule deer hoof comment. I have no idea what impact cheatgrass has on mule deer or other wild animals.

Ask any vet in cheatgrass country if they've ever had problems with dogs and cheatgrass! If you are a dog owner and spend much time in the cheatgrass hills with your pooch you may want to watch the following video. It may save you a high vet bill?

vrcvet.com

How to Check your Pet for Cheatgrass - VRCCO

Learn about the dangers caused by undetected cheatgrass and possible signs your dog might be suffering from a foreign body abscess
vrcvet.com vrcvet.com
 
Hey, I’m just pointing out the facts according to the State and your industry. But you should tell the CDA. I know some guys there so let me know if you need a number.

But it doesn’t sound like the spraying is helping much :ROFLMAO:

Got any facts about the deer population rebound in the county you’re poisoning?

You live in the city don’t you?
 
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Yep, I would like to see the updated cheatgrass acreage number they come up with in Colorado.

Thanks for asking about our deer population. Even though we are in the hot-bed where CWD first started in the US back in the 1970's our deer population is doing extremely well. In fact, they are doing so well that we may start a special deer hunt to keep their numbers in check. We already have a cow elk hunt in place to keep our booming elk population in check and prevent over-utilizing the winter range.

Below are a couple photos from our game cameras. The health of our mule deer fawns and calf elk are amazing. We've been seeing twin fawns the past 2 years on one property and the fawns are difficult to distinguish from yearlings by late fall. Our fawns are super healthy to endure rough winters, disease, predators, etc.

Take a look at the size of the spotted fawn below.
IMG_8743.jpg


Newborn calf and cow below
IMG_4535.jpg


Take a look at the size of this fawn in winter 2023.
IMG_2179.jpg

Here's another 2023 fawn in late summer.

IMG_2183.jpg


IMG_2183.jpg
 
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To me it’s pretty simple: whitetail and mule deer are primarily browsers, not grazers, and do better where there is more browse and less grass.

Cheatgrass is non-native and is aggressive to the point of crowding out native browse and allows more frequent and aggressive fires.

That’s all bad for deer. Not only can it result is lower populations in some areas, but it can result in lower quality animals: both body size and antlers.

Sounds like it’s worth the effort to try and eliminate
 
We are also seeing the benefit of long-term cheatgrass control being seen with other wildlife species. The below tables show the preference of different species to cheatgrass infested vs adjacent cheatgrass sprayed sites with game cameras. This data was collected in 2023 in replicated sites which was 2 years after these sites were sprayed.

Notice how many more rabbit and mice photos were taken in 2023 in Rejuvra vs Untreated Checks. Also, a bunch more bobcat photos taken in sites with cheatgrass control. I wonder why? Deer mice were the only mouse species that tended to be present in decent numbers in cheatgrass.
IMG_4402.jpg


Birds do not like cheatgrass!
IMG_4404.jpg


We've also found that both ground nesting birds and pollinator species like open canopies with a higher diversity of native species. Nest and egg numbers below represent 3 years of monitoring bird nests and eggs.
IMG_4405.jpg
 
Jims,

I was serious before when I said I agree that cheatgrass is a scourge and that I applaud the work you do. I wish you could get rid of it all, and if I had an extra $50k laying around I would have you treat my place.

I don’t question for a minute that the range can be rejuvenated with enough chemicals and money. Viva Monsanto.

But its not economical for me, so I will have to resort to cheaper and more effective ways to improve my habitat. More water and apple trees for me. Oh, and protection from people :)

Incidentally, turkeys like cheatgrass too.
 
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Unless I am missing something, someone with a tractor could treat this pretty economically. Maybe grant money available?

As far as people…..maybe post a few of these
IMG_2071.png
 
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Any type of long-term restoration work is not cheap. Is it worth it for the conservation and a higher diversity of native plant and wildlife species. I believe so. There can't be a price put on the value of wildlife and natives!

We've done a lot of tractor and aerial applications. The tractor applicatons are a chunk cheaper/acre. If land managers are willing to look they will find there are numerous grants available to pay for all or a chunk of these expenses. Cheatgrass is currently a hot topic for financial support. The RMEF, Muledeer Foundation, etc are funding sources. Some counties or groups may even offer matching contributions.

I have only touched the surface about long-term cheatgrass control benefits. We are blessed with an incredible diversity of native plant and wildlife species on our properties. With that said, we are finding that long-term cheatgrass is increasing rare and concern species and native plant communities that have disappeared under dense cheatgrass! If you want pretty rare flower, butterfly, reptile, and other species photos and densities I can share them! We spend a lot of time each day monitoring and geo-referencing rare species changes.

I can pretty much guarantee that if I owned a property that borders others that do nothing to control cheatgrass that my property would be a magnet to wildlife. It's a pretty well-known fact that food plots attract whitetails and improve health/antler growth. The same thing is true with restoring cheatgrass infested areas.

I'm not exactly sure where Monsanto is involved in this?
 
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Perhaps it's time for another biology lesson. This one answers a lot of the issues at hand. Cheatgrass is one of the few plant species that does not depend on mycorrhiza, the symbiotic relationship between 90%+ of the of the world's terrain plants and their species-specific mycorrhizal fungi! In spite of what you may have learned in your high school biology/botany class, the terrain plants are not doing their thing alone! They need help to grow and thrive and reproduce. Their root system isn't efficient enough to do what we see them do.

It gets a bit complicated, but the crux of the matter is nearly all of the plants on soil have a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" relationship with a species-specific fungus termed mycorrhizal (from the Greek "mykes" (fungi) and "rhiza" (root). The fungus attaches itself to the root system of the host plant and uses its hyphae (small hairs) to gather up water and minerals the larger root hairs miss. It then sends the water and minerals up to the leaves to be turned into sugars through photosynthesis (sunlight). The plant then sends down these sugars to its own roots while dropping off some of them to the fungus. This arrangement has been going on for millions of years per the fossils of small plants even before the dinosaurs. The problem with cheatgrass is that cheatgass doesn't have this ralationship. It will sometimes use it, but it doesn't NEED it, mostly because it's short lived. AND, in fact, discourages the proccess by stealing the water and minerals from the soil of its nearby neighbors. Over time, the good soil becomes less and less valuable to the neighboring plants, thus reducing their value as well. And the animals eating the native flora are less healthy.

The monoculture comes when there's not enough nutrients in the soil to sustain the plants that depend on the mycorrhiza and only the cheatgrass grows. And it's hard to replace because you now need to replace the mycorrhizal fungus as well as well as the native plants.

Long lecture! Any questions?
 
Hmm.Ive hunted 4 different bird dogs now for 30 plus years in major CG areas. Never have had a problem with dogs and CG. Chuckers and Huns do love CG areas. Still see some good bucks in those areas as well.I don't see the doom and gloom in my experience.
 
Hmmm… colorado says it creates monocultures because of the fire feedback loop. It’s in the link above.

Colorado knows their weed so who am I to argue ;)
 
We are still fortunate on many of our North Front Range properties to still have remnant native forb, shrub, and perennial grass plants and native’s seed still under most dense cheatgrass stands.

These native plants or seed are waiting for the boost of additional moisture after cheatgrass is controlled to re-occupy their original space without competition for moisture. Many of these native species seed can lie dormant in the soil for years waiting for the right conditions to germinate.

Unfortunately some areas in Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and elsewhere have been in such dire shape with dense cheatgrass for so many years that there are relatively few to no native plants or desirable species seed remaining in dense cheatgrass stands. That’s one reason several states have adopted the protect the core cheatgrass management strategy.
 
Bluehair said:
BS, your guarantee is worth squat. I GUARANDAMNTEE you that barbed wire has killed more muleys than cheatgrass stickers in their hooves.

You simply don’t know what you’re talking about re mule deer habits. These deer aren’t starving or malnourished and it’s nonsense like this that ruins the credibility of your arguments. Go back to telling us how mustard gas cures CWD.
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I simply said the seeds implanted in those places hinder their senses. They also hinder the movement of the animals. Anyone with livestock or pets knows when something is wrong. Even people know when something is poking into their skin.
 
A friend of mine that is a commercial spray applicator just bought a drone that he hopes to use on cheat grass and the grass that I have heard will make you wish for cheat grass,ventenata.
 
txhunter58 said:
Unless I am missing something, someone with a tractor could treat this pretty economically. Maybe grant money available?

As far as people…..maybe post a few of theseView attachment 143983
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It’s not cheap to treat the sagebrush. Herbicide followed with re-seeding to replace the cheatgrass with something more productive. I don’t know the application rate for herbicide, and the native seed mixtures for re-seeding are VERY expensive. $,$$$ per acre I imagine.

Jims can share the methods typically used and the cost range. Maybe he can put up those helicopter pics. I like those.

Something else about cheatgrass is it’s about the only thing that will grow under a juniper. It isn’t pushing much out of that space but spreads very effectively from there. This is the issue I fight.
 
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I originally started research with Rejuvra in 2010 while conducting field research at Colorado State University. Prior to that time, it was labeled for use in turf, ornamentals, vineyards, and orchards under other product names. It had to be an extremely safe product to be sprayed in those settings. It has been labeled for use on playgrounds, golf courses, and food crops for years with no problem.

We originally started off spraying large test strips with a tractor vs aerial applications around 8 years ago. In that particular study we compared Rejuvra to standard Plateau treatments. We also compared helicopter vs tractor vs side-by-side in a cheatgrass study in cooperation with University of Wyoming. In that particular study we monitored drift, cheatgrass control, and response of native species.

It's amazing what a John Deere tractor with a 24' boom can do. There is actually a lot more clearance on a John Deere than an ATV or side-by-side. In fact, there is no way the others could handle the rock and steep terrain we can spray with a high clearance tractor. We have a 300 gallon tank on the back that covers 10 acres when spraying at 30 gallons of water/acre.

We've sprayed over a lot of tall mountain mahogany, bitterbrush, and rabbitbrush in our area in some fairly steep and rocky terrain with a tractor. We spray with 30 gallons of water/acre to help penetrate thick brush and dense cheatgrass thatch.

The cost when I first started spraying was around $40/acre. I haven't kept track of what it is now. We can usually cover around 30 to 45 acres of rough terrain in a day with a tractor.

1714306476307.png


It's definitely a lot quicker and easier to spray via helicopter. In fact, the pilot we've used generally can spray around 1,000 acres in around 1 day. I believe the added price of a helicopter is around $25/acre. I can find out the current price if anyone is super interested.

A helicopter sprays at only around 6 to 8 gallons of water/A. If you think about it, 7 gallons of water spread out over 1 acre is pretty small. We are only spraying 7 oz of Rejuvra over 1 entire acre which is also extremely low. We've sprayed over the top of ponderosa, junipers and other trees with absolutely no problem. You would be amazed at the steep terrain and rough country a helicopter can spray in.

Notice in this photo there is no drift and the helicopter prop drives the spray directly into the soil.
IMG_0378.jpg


It's pretty amazing to see how quickly the helicopter covers country. It's a matter of a couple minutes to reload and head back out.
IMG_1601.jpg


Drones were mentioned in a post above and are another option. There is at least one company in our area that can contract drone applications. I'm not sure what they charge. Their drones are fairly large. If my memory is correct, they can spray approximately 5 acres with 1 tank.

To purchase a large drone is extremely expensive and would require a license. From what I've heard, a drone license is just about as detailed as getting a pilot's license. You will likely need a license even if spraying on your private land.

It is also possible to spray small areas with a backpack sprayer. Our crews have experience using several types. Some are even battery powered rather than pump.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to send me a message.
 
I've found this thread to be the most interesting and informative that's been on this site in awhile. I'm always willing to learn about things affecting wildlife. I really struggle with the cheatgrass seeds in my birddogs when I take them to bird hunt in South Dakota. I've had both eye and ear issues with both labs and springers my vet says that he sees it frequently.
 
Moe said:
2 setters, 1 pointer, now and my last, gsp.
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I am a vet and I don’t have any cheatgrass near me but we have our own variety of spear type seeds. Find them between the toes, armpits, up the nose, and sometimes even deep in the ear canal right at the ear drum

I wouldn’t expect much of a problem with a GSP due to short, tight skin/hair, but medium to long coated dogs generally pick them up. And any dog can between the toes. Do yours wear boots in the field? If not you must be lucky.
 
Ours is actually a beneficial native grass and is called Texas Wintergrass because it can green up in winter. But it’s normally called spear grass for obvious reasons. Here is how they look on the plant
IMG_2087.png
 
elks96 said:
Haha… I can show you over 5,000 acres of chest grass in just one county. Don’t think this map means dick.
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Ok, so we’re starting to get the point.

All of the science around cheatgrass and NOBODY can put a number on it’s mule deer population impacts, or apparently even agree on whether grazing is an effective control (see Nevada special interest group vs Colorado special interest group propaganda).

But it’s easy to blame, and easy to throw money at. In my former life we would have required at least a back of napkin cost-benefit analysis.

I’ll put my deer killing cheatgrass crop up against anyone’s.
 
jims said:
I originally started research with Rejuvra in 2010 while conducting field research at Colorado State University. Prior to that time, it was labeled for use in turf, ornamentals, vineyards, and orchards under other product names. It had to be an extremely safe product to be sprayed in those settings. It has been labeled for use on playgrounds, golf courses, and food crops for years with no problem.

We originally started off spraying large test strips with a tractor vs aerial applications around 8 years ago. In that particular study we compared Rejuvra to standard Plateau treatments. We also compared helicopter vs tractor vs side-by-side in a cheatgrass study in cooperation with University of Wyoming. In that particular study we monitored drift, cheatgrass control, and response of native species.

It's amazing what a John Deere tractor with a 24' boom can do. There is actually a lot more clearance on a John Deere than an ATV or side-by-side. In fact, there is no way the others could handle the rock and steep terrain we can spray with a high clearance tractor. We have a 300 gallon tank on the back that covers 10 acres when spraying at 30 gallons of water/acre.

We've sprayed over a lot of tall mountain mahogany, bitterbrush, and rabbitbrush in our area in some fairly steep and rocky terrain with a tractor. We spray with 30 gallons of water/acre to help penetrate thick brush and dense cheatgrass thatch.

The cost when I first started spraying was around $40/acre. I haven't kept track of what it is now. We can usually cover around 30 to 45 acres of rough terrain in a day with a tractor.

View attachment 144160

It's definitely a lot quicker and easier to spray via helicopter. In fact, the pilot we've used generally can spray around 1,000 acres in around 1 day. I believe the added price of a helicopter is around $25/acre. I can find out the current price if anyone is super interested.

A helicopter sprays at only around 6 to 8 gallons of water/A. If you think about it, 7 gallons of water spread out over 1 acre is pretty small. We are only spraying 7 oz of Rejuvra over 1 entire acre which is also extremely low. We've sprayed over the top of ponderosa, junipers and other trees with absolutely no problem. You would be amazed at the steep terrain and rough country a helicopter can spray in.

Notice in this photo there is no drift and the helicopter prop drives the spray directly into the soil.
View attachment 144161

It's pretty amazing to see how quickly the helicopter covers country. It's a matter of a couple minutes to reload and head back out.
View attachment 144162

Drones were mentioned in a post above and are another option. There is at least one company in our area that can contract drone applications. I'm not sure what they charge. Their drones are fairly large. If my memory is correct, they can spray approximately 5 acres with 1 tank.

To purchase a large drone is extremely expensive and would require a license. From what I've heard, a drone license is just about as detailed as getting a pilot's license. You will likely need a license even if spraying on your private land.

It is also possible to spray small areas with a backpack sprayer. Our crews have experience using several types. Some are even battery powered rather than pump.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to send me a message.
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Jims,

Gunnison county has offered to survey and treat my property with Rejuvra for free if they identify cheatgrass. I'm working on scheduling the visit now.

Pretty cool program.

Kevin
 
txhunter58 said:
Don’t meant to derail the subject. But plants have figured out lots of different ways to disperse their seeds
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And cheatgrass has found several ways. That's another way it cheats. Its seeds are easily dislodged and spread by animals (birds, insects and large and small mammals, (and by people) walking through it, by water/rain as it flows downhill and they are also spread by a slight wind, much like an open parachute.
 
I am clearing cedar of my Texas ranch. Costing $400/acre but with NRCS grant money I only have to pay $150/acre. Still adds up, but there is money out there if you look. The deer on my place are doing “ok” but will do better with cedar gone, and all wildlife benefits.
 
An A for effort but it seems like a losing battle in the long run. That stuff seems relentless, or are we making progress?
 
eelgrass said:
An A for effort but it seems like a losing battle in the long run. That stuff seems relentless, or are we making progress?
Click to expand...
I think it's a long-term battle, but it should get easier to maintain as we restore more of the habitat. And, at least, it's more on the radar of those who make decisions and spend the money.
 
With so many acres across the Western US it's going to be a battle but definitely worth plugging away at it.

On the bright side, the longevity of cheatgrass seed in the soil is only 2 to 5 years. We are getting 7+ years control on multiple sites. Pretty much the only places we see it returning are adjacent to skips. It is super important to prevent skips when spraying!

It's pretty incredible to see how quickly things turn around the first year after application if there is still remnant native species present. That's the reason to be pro-active rather than reactive.

Kevin, great news on your cheatgrass survey and application in Gunnison County! That's a heck of a deal! Hopefully there are sage grouse, deer, elk, and other wildlife on your property that can take full advantage!

For those that doubt the effectiveness of just 1 treatment of Rejuvra for long-term cheatgrass control I invite you to come visit and look at some of our sites. I can pretty much guarantee you will be impressed. I've been out in the field just about every day the past couple weeks monitoring, and the wildflowers are going nuts where we got rid of the cheatgrass. Where we haven't sprayed the cheatgrass and alyssum is as bad as it's been for years with all of the fall, winter, and spring moisture we've had.
 
Hey jims, can you get is a deal on Rejuvra? Cheapest I can find is $1,700/gallon. :oops: :ROFLMAO:

My county will reimburse me $100.
 
Someone saw you coming if you were quota $1,700/gallon for Rejuvra!

Without hardly looking I found Rejuvra on ebay for $960/gal. If you spray at 7 oz/A that equates to $52.00/acre. If you are serious about spraying your cheatgrass, my guess is you can find it cheaper than Ebay. There also may be funding through numerous grant programs to get discounts or spray your place for free!

www.ebay.com

Bayer Rejuvra Herbicide 2.5 gallons | eBay

With the help of Rejuvra (indaziflam) herbicide, it is possible to stop invasive annual grasses by preventing germination of their seeds and depleting the weed seed bank. Non-volatile and good photo stability: Does not leave the application site as a vapor and has good stability when exposed to...
www.ebay.com
 
jims said:
Bluehair, come up and take a look! I can guarantee you will be impressed!
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I believe I would.

I must sound like the tristate of cheatgrass, but I really do hate the stuff. Almost as bad as canadian thistles.

I have a bumper crop of weeds this year so have to get the sprayer out. The cheatgrass is already going to seed.

The real difference between us is that when you think cheatgrass, you think monoculture. I think clumps scattered through a pasture. I’m of a mind that cheatgrass is better than no grass until something better takes hold.

I saw the 2.5 gallon jug. The $440 quart is more my speed.
 
Another lesson: The matted root system. Since Cheatgrass is an annual, when it dies, everything (except the seeds) dies as well. and that includes the roots. And since the roots only go down about 12 inches, it isn't long before the roots are matted to a near carpet consistency that absorbs most of the rain, the dew and minerals that would otherwise be available to the natural grasses, forbs, herbs, sedges, flowers, brush (sagebrush), buds, etc. that the mule deer need to flourish.

The matted roots also prevent any lighter seeds from reaching the ground where they can anchor to the soil. And during a fire those roots can burn hot enough and long enough to permanently damage even the old sagebrush. Since it takes 25 to 75 YEARS to reestablish the sagebrush, the 6 to 8 year fire cycle established by cheatgrass, means that many of the current sagebrush flats may be gone forever.

It's time that cheatgrass got the notoriety it deserves!!!!
 
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Talked with my son at length this week about the cheatgrass problem in the West. He opened my eyes to a lot of things they are doing, and how they are treating things. He upgraded from Hot Shot Superintendent in Craig Colorado to a position here in Boise at NIFC, and it is one of the things he follows closely. Here's some more info.

BLM Fuels Treatments | National Interagency Fire Center

www.nifc.gov www.nifc.gov
 
I live in a cheatgrass hellscape. :ROFLMAO: You guys did shame me into pulling a wheelbarrow full of it around my newly installed pistol/22 range. Next up is mowing it in the dog kennel.

And yet there are deer here. I wonder why?
 
jims said:
With so many acres across the Western US it's going to be a battle but definitely worth plugging away at it.

On the bright side, the longevity of cheatgrass seed in the soil is only 2 to 5 years. We are getting 7+ years control on multiple sites. Pretty much the only places we see it returning are adjacent to skips. It is super important to prevent skips when spraying!

It's pretty incredible to see how quickly things turn around the first year after application if there is still remnant native species present. That's the reason to be pro-active rather than reactive.

Kevin, great news on your cheatgrass survey and application in Gunnison County! That's a heck of a deal! Hopefully there are sage grouse, deer, elk, and other wildlife on your property that can take full advantage!

For those that doubt the effectiveness of just 1 treatment of Rejuvra for long-term cheatgrass control I invite you to come visit and look at some of our sites. I can pretty much guarantee you will be impressed. I've been out in the field just about every day the past couple weeks monitoring, and the wildflowers are going nuts where we got rid of the cheatgrass. Where we haven't sprayed the cheatgrass and alyssum is as bad as it's been for years with all of the fall, winter, and spring moisture we've had.
Click to expand...

What is a “skip”?
 
Bluehair said:
I live in a cheatgrass hellscape. :ROFLMAO: You guys did shame me into pulling a wheelbarrow full of it around my newly installed pistol/22 range. Next up is mowing it in the dog kennel.

And yet there are deer here. I wonder why?
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I know. I've seen your deer photos. They don't look too scared to me. 😁
 
elkfromabove said:
Another lesson: The matted root system. Since Cheatgrass is an annual, when it dies, everything (except the seeds) dies as well. and that includes the roots. And since the roots only go down about 12 inches, it isn't long before the roots are matted to a near carpet consistency that absorbs most of the rain, the dew and minerals that would otherwise be available to the natural grasses, forbs, herbs, sedges, flowers, brush (sagebrush), buds, etc. that the mule deer need to flourish.

The matted roots also prevent any lighter seeds from reaching the ground where they can anchor to the soil. And during a fire those roots can burn hot enough and long enough to permanently damage even the old sagebrush. Since it takes 25 to 75 YEARS to reestablish the sagebrush, the 6 to 8 year fire cycle established by cheatgrass, means that many of the current sagebrush flats may be gone forever.

It's time that cheatgrass got the notoriety it deserves!!!!
Click to expand...
Another little tidbit about the moisture pulled out of the soil: It's been estimated that an abundance of only 50 cheatgrass plants per square foot can remove soil water to the PERMANENT wilting point to a depth of 126 inches (10.6 feet). It's no wonder we're losing sagebrush in this draught!
 
Stolen from rmanwill I believe. The best cheatgrass picture I’ve ever seen. This came from a great thread on the Dolores Triangle I believe. This is a monoculture.

I’m fixin to put some up as soon as I download the camera. The deer are mobbing the patch of cheatgrass (and bindweed) in my backyard. They walk thru a 1/4 mile of pasture or sagebrush to get to it.

This picture is nightmare stuff. :cool:
IMG_3351.jpeg
 
Link to rmanwill pictures. Good stuff.

Delores triangle deer hunt. | Utah

Today is the opener of the Delores rifle hunt. Any luck or MM'ers on the unit? With the weather, wondering if many of the bucks have moved over from Colorado unit 40. Hope the hunt is successful for anyone with a tag. Hope they move soon. Son has one of the 4 muzzy tags in there in a week and...
www.monstermuleys.info www.monstermuleys.info
 
Another cheat: Cheatgrass can be almost anywhere or everywhere we have mule deer (and some places we don't have deer). There's only two areas it doesn't do well and that's not much of a surprise. It doesn't do well on soils that are too salty/alkali and/or compacted. Otherwise, it grows naturally at all elevations, temperature zones, terrains, soils, weather conditions, smog, cultivated, grazed, wooded, shaded, open grasslands, riparian, swamps, etc. Its life cycle is so short, it doesn't need the growth elements native plants need.
grosventrehunter said:
Readings sucks but pictures are nice. Anyone have a cheatgrass picture?
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Just google (or bing or?) "Cheatgrass". There are dozens of them close-up and many others in field views.
Betterluckythangood said:
I don’t see that buck feeding on that dried out stuff. Just sayin.
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It looks like it makes a good bedding area, though. Nothing's gonna sneak up on him.

Edited: I just learned that there are studies going on that indicate that cheatgrass may even alter the bacteria, mosses, and lichens of the soil it's growing on.
 
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Pic brings up couple thoughts.

Does look like it’s a good way for a fire to spread

When is it green? If it becomes a monoculture and it’s not green all year, what do they eat the rest of the year?

Mule deer generally don’t get much nutrition from “grass”. Can they digest this better than other grasses?
 
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txhunter58 said:
Pic brings up couple thoughts.

Does look like it’s a good way for a fire to spread

When is it green? If it becomes a monoculture and it’s not green in all year, what do they eat the rest of the year?

Mule deer generally don’t get much nutrition from “grass”. Can they digest this better than other grasses?
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Yes, its very flammable.

Here at casa de bluhair, it’s green now and going to seed now. The deer are seeking it out but will quit in a week or two.

From then on cheatgrass is useless and a nuisance.

I have no idea why they eat it - they literally have everything else they would want to eat right now.

I have never seen cheatgrass in the high country here.
 
I’m still scratching my head on how a plant with a root system no deeper that 12”s can’t deplete the the soil of moisture to a depth of 10’-6…..
 
Homer said:
I’m still scratching my head on how a plant with a root system no deeper that 12”s can’t deplete the the soil of moisture to a depth of 10’-6…..
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If you are familiar with wells, you know that sometimes it takes years for the rainwater to reach the ground water level. Not ALL of the rainwater is used for culinary, secondary, or irrigation. Some of it seeps down through the soil, sand, gravel and rocks to become underground lakes and large puddles.

But eventually, the surface water gets used more and more so even less of it gets to the underground lakes and puddles and the wells get deeper and deeper. I live in an area where are lots of wells and most of the ranchers/farmers have their own drilling rigs in order to get to the ground water that keeps dropping.

AND there's a LOT of legal stuff going on right now with water rights between developers, ranchers, farmers, citizens and politicians as to what the ground water can be used for and who owns it. We've even had past Utah laws against catching rainwater in barrels because we don't own the air above our homes where the rainwater comes from.

That 12"root system is now large enough in some places to dry out the soil to the point of no return.
 
elkfromabove said:
If you are familiar with wells, you know that sometimes it takes years for the rainwater to reach the ground water level. Not ALL of the rainwater is used for culinary, secondary, or irrigation. Some of it seeps down through the soil, sand, gravel and rocks to become underground lakes and large puddles.

But eventually, the surface water gets used more and more so even less of it gets to the underground lakes and puddles and the wells get deeper and deeper. I live in an area where are lots of wells and most of the ranchers/farmers have their own drilling rigs in order to get to the ground water that keeps dropping.

AND there's a LOT of legal stuff going on right now with water rights between developers, ranchers, farmers, citizens and politicians as to what the ground water can be used for and who owns it. We've even had past Utah laws against catching rainwater in barrels because we don't own the air above our homes where the rainwater comes from.

That 12"root system is now large enough in some places to dry out the soil to the point of no return.
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That is pretty much the response I was expecting.......seriously.....thank you
 
We only get 12 to 14" of precipitation here in Colorado so every drop makes a difference. Cheatgrass is a winter annual that comes up in the fall through late winter. Most of our moisture comes in the winter through early spring and that's the time of year cheatgrass is actively growing.

Many of our native forb species emerge in the early spring and are done by July. As you can see in the photos above, the moisture robbed by cheatgrass makes a dramatic difference in forb, shrub, and grass production. Cheatgrass is extremely competitive with both native forbs, subshrubs, and shrubs.

The shrub leader growth on our winter range browse species (mtn mahogany and antelope bitterbrush) is around 50 to 75% greater where we control cheatgrass. There are more shrub leaders/plant and those shoots are rich in crude protein and digestible energy.
 
Below is a photo of one of the first test strips we did with Rejuvra around 8-9 years ago. The photo was taken 1+ year after treatment. It looks fairly similar today but there likely is a higher diversity of species that have filled in the gaps where it was originally cheatgrass.

1715314022426.jpeg
 
notdonhunting said:
Do you notice there is other green stuff in that picture than cheat grass!🤔
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Yup, deer like weeds (forbs). I got plenty. Just takes water.

Cheatgrass reduces the carrying capacity of the range, period. It is not toxic to deer nor do they die when they walk thru it. Solar panels will do FAR more damage to deer populations in my ‘hood.

You guys can spend every conservation and agency dollar there is on that $1000/gallon spray, and when the money’s all gone it won’t make a any more difference than a spit in the ocean to mule deer populations. Cheatgrass is only one of the 54 things causing mule deer populations to decline, but it isn’t anywhere close to the primary cause. That’s my whole point for pushing back on the hyperbole.

By all means, keep on spraying. You can start on my place. But save some of that money to develop water sources.
 

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