Can We Still Be Proud?

B

B_BOP_A_LU_LU

Guest
As I've mentioned/placed bets several times the last few years that the Quality of Bucks & Bulls(Especially the LE Unit Bulls)
would be declining on average for the most part,with even smaller average sized Bulls to show up in the near future/years thanks to SCREAMING OPPORTUNISTS & PISS POOR MANAGEMENT by the UDWR!

Can We still be Proud of 350" class Bulls?
I say We can & should,in fact I don't think it's far off & a 350" Bull will be a big bull once again!

The 400" Bull Hype has been pounded in to so many heads alot of hunters won't even look at a Bull that only goes 350"!

Kinda sad,(according to ww I'm an inch FREAK!)but not really so,I just think the LE Units should stand as QUALITY Units,Why should we destroy what took 10-17 years,let the opportunists thrash the general/open Units & shoot their f'n Spikes if that makes them feel like a man!

DON'T DESTROY QUALITY LE UNITS JUST BECAUSE THE OPPORTUNISTS WANT TO SHOOT PISSCUTTERS!

I'd still be happy/Proud with a 350" Bull on an LE Unit & be Proud!
I may never get one but that's OK!
Let's band together & keep the Quality going in the LE Units!
We can start by getting the SPIKE hunts & Cow Slaughters stopped first!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
Yeah and lets have a few more January hunts on the winter range. Two things right and wrong this is just wrong. Even if you are trying to manage #s ya don't go into the middle of the winter range when animals are in a survival mode. Kill a few but what happens to the rest of the heard. Pushed right out of thier only habitat! And if it is table fare you want! Then a clouted clay-brained Dingleberry knows it is best killed when it is putting on weight.
I know I havent seen dead or alive half the big bulls this year as in years past. That is included posted on MM> Oh there has been some killed but we can and have done better.

Rutnbuck
 
A 350 bull is a great bull anywhere any state. the dreams of everyone killing 400 bulls and that they are all over is crazy. I have spent alot of time in the hills in Nevada and cnd truthfully say I have only seen one bull that is for sure 400 inches.
 
I'd be proud with a 350 any day. Shoot, a 330 bull isn't anything to sneeze at!

I was preaching years ago that Utah's glory 400" days were coming to an end. Believed it so much I cashed in my points and I'm glad I did. If you're sitting on points I'd burn them ASAP!

Even with some major changes I'd guess it take a minimum of 5-10 years to get back to pre 2006 quality.

The late hunts this year are a week later and 2 days longer than in the past. They're going to mop up most of what's left on a lot of units.
 
Right on Prism!
Me & you see things quite the same!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
even if you do stop the spike hunts you have to kill bulls to keep the herds at objective. You cannot allow the herds by law to over grow the area and eat up all the forage.

So you have manage the herd by bull to cow ratios and screw the inches or age objectives. pick a bull to cow ratio and give out some big bull permits, and management bull tags. to protect the quality you have to limit the range of the weapons especially the 100% success rate weapon in the rut.

The managment tags needed to be before the bulls are all busted up.

This way bulls will get killed but it might not be the cream of the crop getting killed. then when a guy/gal that does draw a rifle permit they have something that is worth shooting.

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


There are no big bucks in Utah! LOL
 
A 350 bull is a damn nice bull. Any day of the week dont matter where im at. I dont understand the passing of a 350 bull. Shoot we got two tags for mt dutton late season and im sure that a bull that size will not have to be second guessed.

SW..
is right. The quality of bulls will comtinue to drop unless they fix the tag issue.

Raise the archery tags and allow the archery hunters to hunt till mid to end of sept. For hell sakes dont know of anyone who needs a rutting bull comin in to 40 yards to hit him with a rifle. Lower the 100% success rate tags and push the rifle hunt into the first weeks of october and in my opinion after the muzzle loader hunt. More hunters will start puttin in for string and stick tags but the success rate wont change to much were as raising the rifle tags just makes it more of a slaughter fest out there.
Who runs all this stuff anyway. they need to pull their head out
 
For all you guys that still think that the rifle hunt is a piece of cake with 100% success need to pull their heads out. I know plenty of people that ate tag soup with rifle tags this year and if wasnt for a lack of effort. If was a hard hunt this year with the weather being so hot and the full moon. I will garantee you that most rifle hunters didn't call in ruttin bulls to 40 yards. I'll be glad use my rifle for a hunt in August if you want the rut hunt.
 
I remember when a 300 bull was a good bull. Truth is, 95% of all hunters will never shoot a 350 bull.
 
My brother arrowed a 330 bull this year after 25 straight days of hunting! He had chances at a 370 bull, but it doesn't matter though when his bull was on the ground, you would have thought it was 400! I only wish i can take a bull of that caliber with my bow! Score helps the ego for those who need it, but in the end it is all about enjoying what god has given us and making memories with those you love!
 
Once again, the answer to the problem is raise archery permits and give archers the rut! Lmao.

If I read one more post that suggests archers needs more tags and the rut, I may seriously vomit. That dead horse is decayed, the maggots are gone, the bones have turned to dust. The coyotes drug off the last of the hide. There isnt a dead horse to beat anymore

If you want to hunt the rut, get a ANY WEAPON TAG!.
 
You may have to vomit then cuz its a fact. I was on the mountain during all three hunts this year and i know it was hot and a hard hunt but we still managed to fill tags pretty easy. but when you got a weapon that shoots 500 yards plus well..enough said.

Its not about wanting a rut hunt. Its about trying to fix the elk herds in utah. Keep the dates the same with archery thats fine but the number of tags issued for the rifle and muzzle hunts are to many. I dont care about the dates but the tag numbers need to decrease. Even if they dont give archery more tags the rifle tags need to decrease. You could give out 500 archery tags on a unit and the success rate most likely wont change all that much. Its a slaughter fest with the rifle hunt.

Im sorry you boys get alittle upset about this. Maybe stick and string is to difficult and to draining. Buglin bulls and ruttin bulls i guess is to hard even with a rifle.
 
JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST AND HOLY MOLY!!!!!!! The CAT is finally starting to get it!!!!!!!

Do any of you Rocket Scientists know the age averages of bulls coming off our LE units??? They are so far over what the management goal is it ain't funny. All of you need 400 inch elk so the tag whores keep lobbying to increase age classes even more!!!

I've told your can scrapping behind for years that this crash was coming and all you could come back with is OPPORTUNIST THIS AND OPPORTUNIST THAT!!!!

Yeah CAT most hunters would be happy with a 350 bull... Most can't tell the difference between a 340 bull and a 350 bull on the hoof anyway... Like I've always said if you pull the damn trigger on the animal you are happy, Otherwise keep looking.

It's going to get worse for all involved. Tags are going to dry up because of the perceived loss of quality, elk herds are going to get farther out of whack, and what mule deer are left in Utah are really going to get lubed up.

Quit managing Utah's herds for Tag Whores.






*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
Cannot believe anyone from Utah would complain about the quality of elk hunting. Come to OTC Colorado and hunt some rags for a couple years. You all need a reality check.
 
I dont think its comlaining. At least on my part i understand how good we got it right now. I understand utah is prime elk hunting with alot of huge bulls. I would just like to keep it that that way instead of fallin off to rags being trophy's.
 
I killed my biggest bull this year. 331 gross and I couldn't be happier. Sure, I chased a 380 bull (that appears to be taken by a lady during the rifle hunt, for five days) and really would have liked to have taken him. Couldn't get closer than 120 yards and ended up looking for an easier target. Ended up with the third biggest bull I saw on the unit after 15 days for hard hunting. I went into the hunt hoping for a 320-340 bull and found one that exceeded my expectations and dreams. After it is all said and done, the score doesn't matter as much to me now, it is the experience that I dream about every day. I have no regrets giving up on the larger bull to take one a little smaller...

It was with a bow. If I had a rifle tag, I am sure I could have shot a bigger bull. Not hard to get within 400 yards of a bugling bull with a rifle. Hell of lot harder to get within 40 yards of a herd bull...

Heck, my dad killed an end of the hunt muzzy bull off the Pahvant last year, it only scores 310, but looks great on the wall. We had the problem that we only wanted a 350+ bull, but it just didn't work out. Now, we look back and are happy with what we finished with. I was disappointed at first, but I now realize we did all we could, that is why it is called hunting...
 
> JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST
>AND HOLY MOLY!!!!!!! The CAT
>is finally starting to get
>it!!!!!!!
No Wiley,I've 'got it' from the very start!


>
> Do any of
>you Rocket Scientists know the
>age averages of bulls coming
>off our LE units??? They
>are so far over what
>the management goal is it
>ain't funny. All of you
>need 400 inch elk so
>the tag whores keep lobbying
>to increase age classes even
>more!!!

There's another f'n problem right there!
You OPPORTUNIST FREAKS read the UDWR like a Bible,4 to 4-1/2 year old objectives ww?
Send us a pic of you & your PISSCUTTER when you get him & when they get these objectives down that low, cuzz it ain't far away,GEEZUS!

>
> I've told your
>can scrapping behind for years
>that this crash was coming
>and all you could come
>back with is OPPORTUNIST THIS
>AND OPPORTUNIST THAT!!!!

YUP!
The opportunists only look in to the Future as far as tomorrow & Piss on everything else,WTF wiley?
>
> Yeah CAT most hunters
>would be happy with a
>350 bull... Most can't tell
>the difference between a 340
>bull and a 350 bull
>on the hoof anyway... Like
>I've always said if you
>pull the damn trigger on
>the animal you are happy,
>Otherwise keep looking.

That's fine,if you want a smaller Bull then shoot one,I don't GAF,just don't come on here screaming for opportunity the following year because you blowed your LE tag on a PISSCUTTER!
>
> It's going to get
>worse for all involved. Tags
>are going to dry up
>because of the perceived loss
>of quality, elk herds are
>going to get farther out
>of whack, and what mule
>deer are left in Utah
>are really going to get
>lubed up.

It will get worse!
Because of OPPORTUNIST running their mouths & 'MORE' PISS POOR MANAGEMENT by the DWR!
***PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION HERE wiley***
We've got an LE Unit close by here,used to be good,but due to PISS POOR MANAGEMENT by the DWR this Unit is perty much JUNK wiley(You still listening?)I know a Hunter that has a Tag out there,spent several days looking/helping,this Unit is pitiful,I did find a few Bulls,they are Busted all to #### wiley,very few Elk left on the Unit,know what caused this wiley?
SEVERAL YEARS OF COW SLAUGHTERS!
YEAR AFTER YEAR & IN TO LATE WINTER MONTHS SHOOTING THE F"N COWS!
THEN JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU"VE SEEN IT ALL THEY PULLED OFF A LATE 'BULL'(YES I SAID BULL wiley) DEPERDATION HUNT IN DECECEMBER,JUDAS ####ING PRIEST!

Because of all the opportunists & opportunity & GREED the LE Unit is now JUNK wiley!(You still listening wiley?)
>
> Quit managing Utah's herds
>for Tag Whores.

Let's go back to managing the LE Units for QUALITY animals,keep an extremely close eye on the Units & keep the QUALITY where it should be,let the WHINNING OPPORTUNISTS hunt the general/open Bull Units or let their sorry asses start their own Units & let them manage them as they please(I've mentioned this for years wiley but you & Pro never started your own Units WTF?)
If you guys woulda got together when I told you to many years ago You'd be PISSCUTTIN in your own Units today,problem is:Opportunists don't wanna do any of the work,all they want is to be GREEDY & 'take' what alot of other people/hunters helped get going that took many years to achieve!(YES wiley,they want a quick grab,they can't stand it knowing several 320" Bulls survived through all of Utahs LE Hunts,they want to shoot every last Bull,well take a HIKE!

Well wiley,I got cans to pick up,was that you the other day that threw your beer can out & hit me?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>*****************************************
>Wiley,
>I am nominating that for post
>of the
>century on Monster Muleys!
>
>Your are spot on.



God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
Bad RUGSTER,BAD!:D

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
And Remember RUGSTER!
When you draw your LE Elk tag,you can only shoot a Spike/Pisscutter!:D

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-10 AT 08:08AM (MST)[p]"If you guys woulda got together when I told you to many years ago You'd be PISSCUTTIN in your own Units today"

Bessy:

I think you have out done yourself! Keep up the good work lol!
 
I have to say that even though Utah has produced several 400 inch bulls they are not super common. I do have to say that every LE unit is Utah has the potential to produce 350 inch bulls. We should be proud of that to some extent.

I do have to say that I hate going to the Paunsaugunt now to hunt deer. I have hunted it several times and have yet to get a family member to take even a 24" 4x4. Now it should be one big management hunt.
 
The sky is falling the sky is falling!!!!

Yes, the giant monstrous bulls are not behind every tree anymore. I would love for that to be the case but not at the cost of even the recently added permits.

For those willing to really hit the scouting hard and with a little luck on your side, you can still kill a 370+ bull. The reality is that most don't know the difference between a 350 and a 320 bull on the hoof or on the wall. I would not like to see the quality drop any lower than it is now.

This year was a really tough year for all weapon types. I know some great hunters who did not kill bulls with a rifle and muzzy. That is why it is called hunting. Just because you put in for 15 years does not guarantee you any number of inches or even a bull for that matter.

I know of others who killed some absolute monsters on "crappy " units that have "gone down hill" this year. Just because you do not see them posted all over the web does not mean they do not exist and were not harvested. Many choose not to post pics.

How can the quality be going down hill when the average age of bulls is still over the higher objectives?? Could it be your all wrong or is it the better bulls are actually younger bulls??

I do not know? What do you guy's think?
 
BESSY... Let me ask just a couple questions then I'll break out the crayons and draw your "Natty light Soaked Brain" a picture.

When was the last time an elk plan was developed that Opportunists gained any more tags???

When was the last time an elk plan was developed where age class and harvest objectives were lowered??

Let me answer for your silly ass. NEVER!!!! REPEAT AFTER ME NEVER!!!!!

You can blame what is going on right now with your perceived drop in quality on opportunists, or you can pull your melon out of your starfish and see what 16 years of managing elk this way has done. I told your silly ass a couple years back that we are at the top of the hill.. It was a great climb and really fun for a few while it lasted but now the only place to go from here is down.. You can't go any higher in elk quality unless you start shipping bulls from farms in to certain area's. It won't happen!!!

CAT I never in my life thought I'd hear a Utah hunter be disappointed to kill a legit 350 bull!! Never!! Why would any hunter be disappointed in killing an elk like this??? Cause FREAKS like you have set the bar so high with the system ya'll have created that after 16 years of applying to kill a pisscutter teeny stinky 350 just sucks. Are ya kidding me???

I'll sleep well knowing that I was part of the last Statewide Elk Committee and I was one of three that voted against this B.S.
Ya see I care about elk herds, not the next state record or the next Conservation Tag I was gonna pimp!!!

Now your quest for a 500 inch bull has pretty much decimated
our mule deer herds, now it's having the effect that every biologist and anyone that knows elk told you can plucking ass would come to elk as well.

I won't waste my limited typing skills going in to the cow slaughters or the spike hunts. We've been down this road before, too many times. Just know that what you are seeing now is your own doing. Not the opportunists.

One more bit of wisdom BESSY... Wait till the DWR brings these units in to their actual age objectives. You'll have 350 bulls running all over the mountain and because they don't hit the un attainable age objective that the tag pimps set your permits will be as scarce as a Budweiser in your fridge. It'll take you 35 years of bonus points to draw a tag by then. You made the bed quit bitching about the sheets





*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
> BESSY... Let me ask
>just a couple questions then
>I'll break out the crayons
>and draw your "Natty light
>Soaked Brain" a picture.
>
> When was the last
>time an elk plan was
>developed that Opportunists gained any
>more tags???

I've told you & Pro for years to quit your bitcching & start your own Units & manage them as you please!
Niether one of you done it though,WTF?


>
> When was the last
>time an elk plan was
>developed where age class and
>harvest objectives were lowered??

Well ww!
The DWR & Pro are SCREAMING for lower age objectives!
The DWR wants 4.5 & Pro & his bunch even want lower than that,they both can take a f'n hike!
You want dink 4-4.5 year old Bulls,(Man Up),start your own damn Units & enjoy the PISSCUTTIN!

>
> Let me answer for
>your silly ass. NEVER!!!! REPEAT
>AFTER ME NEVER!!!!!
>
> You can blame what
>is going on right now
>with your perceived drop in
>quality on opportunists, or you
>can pull your melon out
>of your starfish and see
>what 16 years of managing
>elk this way has done.
>I told your silly ass
>a couple years back that
>we are at the top
>of the hill.. It was
>a great climb and really
>fun for a few while
>it lasted but now the
>only place to go from
>here is down.. You can't
>go any higher in elk
>quality unless you start shipping
>bulls from farms in to
>certain area's. It won't happen!!!

Don't give me this Horsesshit!
The SCREAMING Opportunists & GREEDY DWR SLAUGHTERED the Cows for $$$!
>
>
> CAT I never in
>my life thought I'd hear
>a Utah hunter be disappointed
>to kill a legit 350
>bull!! Never!! Why would any
>hunter be disappointed in killing
>an elk like this??? Cause
>FREAKS like you have set
>the bar so high with
>the system ya'll have created
>that after 16 years of
>applying to kill a pisscutter
>teeny stinky 350 just sucks.
>Are ya kidding me???

Well ww,I seen a young Gal turn a 392" Typical down this year,take that Opportunists!

>
> I'll sleep well knowing
>that I was part of
>the last Statewide Elk Committee
>and I was one of
>three that voted against this
>B.S.
>Ya see I care about elk
>herds, not the next state
>record or the next Conservation
>Tag I was gonna pimp!!!

You shoulda got the Cow slaughters stopped while you were in there,WTF?
>
>
> Now your quest for
>a 500 inch bull has
>pretty much decimated
>our mule deer herds, now it's
>having the effect that every
>biologist and anyone that knows
>elk told you can plucking
>ass would come to elk
>as well.

You're just like the DWR!
Blame the Elk instead of PISS POOR DEER MANAGEMENT FOR NEARLY 40 YEARS,WTF???
>
> I won't waste my
>limited typing skills going in
>to the cow slaughters or
>the spike hunts. We've been
>down this road before, too
>many times. Just know that
>what you are seeing now
>is your own doing. Not
>the opportunists.

Bull Butter!
You keep SQUAWKING for more opportunity,you kill way too many cows,then SCREAM like a baby:Now theres too many Bulls for the amount of cows,well no sshit sherlock,I wonder why?
>
> One more bit of
>wisdom BESSY... Wait till the
>DWR brings these units in
>to their actual age objectives.
>You'll have 350 bulls running
>all over the mountain and
>because they don't hit the
>un attainable age objective that
>the tag pimps set your
>permits will be as scarce
>as a Budweiser in your
>fridge. It'll take you 35
>years of bonus points to
>draw a tag by then.
>You made the bed quit
>bitching about the sheets

Might take me a while to draw,but if think I'm shootin a DINK/PISSCUTTER you're up in the night,I'll chew on TAG SOUP the rest of my life before doing that!
>
>
>
>
>
>*****************************************
>Wiley,
>I am nominating that for post
>of the
>century on Monster Muleys!
>
>Your are spot on.



God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
What is an LE unit? I try to stay on top of my acronyms but it's getting to be too overwhelming. I almost stop reading posts anymore that have too many acronyms in them. LE to me used to mean Law Enforcement. But the lazy typing skills of todays posters leave alot of us in wonder as to WTF you are talking about. LOL
 
CAT Did ya partake of the pumpkin patch today??? Did ya find the NOMAD???

Cows get slaughtered because trophy hunters won't allow bulls to be killed.

Carry on...

Come out of exile KTC!!! You've been gone long enough!!!
Sound off like you've got a pair







*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
>And Remember RUGSTER!
>When you draw your LE Elk
>tag,you can only shoot a
>Spike/Pisscutter!:D
>
>God is Great!
>Life is Good!
>And People are Crazy!
>
>I love not acting my age,
>
>Damn I love my NASCAR race,
>
>And Hell yes I love my
>Truck!

Haha, that may be a long time...
 
ww!
Ya I did Partake!
Never seen another Pumpkin Suit!

I'm calling BS wiley!
Cow get slaughtered because of GREED & PISS POOR MANAGEMENT!
(Something I guess You'll never understand?)

I understand there might come a time when we need to thin a few Cows,but GEEZUS wiley 8-10 years worth of Cow slaughters & then you wonder why we have a Herd that is out of balance,GOOD GAWD use that round thang atop your shoulders!



God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
>Cow get slaughtered because of GREED
>& PISS POOR MANAGEMENT!
>(Something I guess You'll never understand?)
>
>I understand there might come a
>time when we need to
>thin a few Cows,but GEEZUS
>wiley 8-10 years worth of
>Cow slaughters & then you
>wonder why we have a
>Herd that is out of
>balance,GOOD GAWD use that round
>thang atop your shoulders!

Wow Bessy, I must have given you way more credit than you deserve. I always thought you just liked to stir the pot, but with that statement above, I have to conclude that you are as thick as a brick :(

Hello bessy, are you there? Herd size is fixed. You either kill bulls or you kill cows. How thick is that brick of yours that you can't see that what you are calling for is more cow slaughters and more wealth tags and more bounty hunting and more of every thing that is wrong with our system these days.

Are you really that thick or just like to be laughably dishonest?
 
Wake the Hell up c3!

Do you remember the Slaughter of Cows on the Fish Lake Unit a few years back?(Guess you don't or you don't care?)

You familiar with another LE Elk Unit named Anthro?
That Unit is perty much JUNK due to GREED & PISS POOR MANAGEMENT!

PLEASE READ AGAIN c3!

I understand there might come a
>time when we need to
>thin a few Cows,but GEEZUS
>wiley 8-10 years worth of
>Cow slaughters & then you
>wonder why we have a
>Herd that is out of
>balance!

What part of that paragraph do you not comprehend?

Call it thick as a f'n brick or call it somebody really concerned with the Quality & Future of LE Elk Units!

Think them Spike/Pisscutter hunts will help LE Units c3?

Time to wake up c3!



God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
There you go again Bessy, completely incapible of actually discussing the facts!

Fish Lake and Anthro Mtn had absolutely nothing to do with public land game management. They were 100% the result of private landowner issues with the elk and the landowners unwillingness to work with the DWR over it. The DWR had no other recourse but to remove the offending elk. They took place over two years and have nothing what-so-ever to do with your point you so dishonestly typed above.

The 8 - 10 years of cow slaughters on the LE units, as you refer to them, is a direct result of not giving enough bull permits to keep the herd size in check. It's simple grade school math that you seem to want to ignor or are of incapible of doing.

If you really can't set up the equation and do the math yourself, I can type it out here for you? This one I actually can do in my sleep.

The special interest, sportsmans group, conservation group and "quality" group's misguided desire to see a 400" bull behind every 5th tree on every unit is the reason the DWR is having to have such large scale cow hunts on all the units. "Cow slaughters" as you call them.

Which way do you want it Bessy? Cow slaughters as you call them or a pisscutter fest? Either way elk have to go.

The opportunists as you call them have been screaming for massive increases in primitive weapons permits which would blow the elk all over the units and for the most part out of harms way. Cut the anyweapon permits to a third and pull them out of the rut. This way you could end the cow slaughters, increase the total permit numbers 5 fold, have a similar number of high quality bulls that don't get broken before the rut even starts and have a much more robust herd.

Would I love to wake up from the nightmare you are screaming so loudly to perpetuate, you bet!
 
c3!

Tell us all something?
You got your LE/OIL Elk tag this year & you had a good hunt & you took a nice Bull!
How'd it feel to hunt a Quality Unit with a Big Bull behind every 5th tree as you call it?

I can see you're are leaning to a true Opportunist real quick now that you've GOT-R-DONE,WTF?

Re-read above c3!
I said:I know there are times we are gonna need to thin some Cows out,(you still listening?)but BY GAWD to a certain number,not turn the whole herd in to $$$ for the DWR & not just to satisfy WHINING OPPORTUNISTS!(You still with me c3?)For GAWDS sake don't shoot the herd out until it's out of balance & then people like you & Pro start screaming:My God,We shot too many Cows & now there's too many Bulls for the amount of Cows left so now let's shoot all the Bulls,let's even shoot the baby Bulls,WAFJ!

You've proved your point with me real Quick c3!
You're just like the DWR,you couldn't manage a herd of Moo Cows in a pen without f'n it up!

Oh,have a nice day c3!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
>Tell us all something?
>You got your LE/OIL Elk tag
>this year & you had a good hunt &
>you took a nice Bull!
>How'd it feel to hunt a Quality Unit
>with a Big Bull behind
>every 5th tree as you call it?

How the hey could I not have had an incredible hunt. There were only 22 guys hunting almost a thousand bulls. That is my point exactly. It's idiotic to waste the resource like that.

>I can see you're are leaning
>to a true Opportunist real
>quick now that you've GOT-R-DONE,WTF?

Again Bessy facts count. Being dishonest as you seem to be serves no one.

Here's one of my posts after doing the UBA presentation in Green River:
- Oct-29-03, 11:29 AM (MST)
>I presented the case for significantly
>increasing primitive
>weapons use on the LE elk hunts
>as a way to ensure more
>opportunity for LE elk hunting here
>in Utah. It fell on deaf ears
>as usual.

I could repost dozens more. I've been saying the same thing since the mid 90's when this whole cluster got started.

Being disingenuous isn't helping anything Bessy. Maybe you should spend some time getting your facts straight before you start spraying your gibberish any further. It's either pure cluelessness or an outright lie you keep perpetuating in these posts.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-10 AT 10:35AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-10 AT 10:34?AM (MST)

"The opportunists as you call them have been screaming for massive increases in primitive weapons permits which would blow the elk all over the units and for the most part out of harms way. Cut the anyweapon permits to a third and pull them out of the rut. This way you could end the cow slaughters, increase the total permit numbers 5 fold, have a similar number of high quality bulls that don't get broken before the
rut even starts and have a much more robust herd."

Cut the any weapon permits To 1/3?

I presented the case for significantly
>increasing primitive
>weapons use on the LE elk hunts
>as a way to ensure more
>opportunity for LE elk hunting here
>in Utah. It fell on deaf ears
>as usual.

Fell on deaf ears? really? Probably becuase your proposal stinks! We have heard this song and dance from you bow hunters forever. Gave us more tags. Give us longer to hunt. Give us the rut. WAWAWA. Rifle hunters represent the largest group of hunters, so lets take away most of that groups opportunity. Sounds fantastic. So this proposal helps the bow hunter draw a tag eveny other year, the rifle hunter now gets a once in a lifetime hunt.
 
I am sorry but I cannot sit quietly on the sidelines any longer on this issue. Bessie?s reasoning (or lack thereof) is way off base. C3 has hit the nail right on the head. Our elk herds, for the most part, are at or above management levels. The reason the DWR has opened limited entry units to spike hunting and increased cow tags is because there are too many elk on those units. Period. Rather than increasing the number of big bull tags, the DWR is trying to kill off some spikes and cows in an effort to reduce overall numbers but maintain the quality so that a few lucky hunters can draw a tag once or twice in their lifetime and so that the big money hunters can buy a tag every year and kill 400 class bulls. The fact that Bessie is asking ?whether we can be proud of a 350 class bull? highlights the fact that we are completely out of touch with reality. A 350 bull is a wonderful trophy that any hunter should be proud of. In order to produce 400? bulls across the state, we would have to cut tags to the point that elk hunting will become a true once-in-a-lifetime hunt like sheep, moose and goats.

The problem is compounded by the fact that Utah allows rifle hunters to hunt during the peak of the rut. As a result, the success rate for any weapon hunts is above 90% and we continually kill off the best bulls year after year by hunting them with rifles when they are most vulnerable and then we complain because the overall quality is decreasing. Why is Utah the only state that schedules its rifle hunt during the peak of the rut? Are we smarter than everyone else? Personally, I think this is all driven by the large conservation groups and their desire to push quality at the expense of opportunity. Although you and I would be thrilled to have the opportunity to harvest a 350? bull, the ?big money crowd? won't pay tens of thousands dollars to shoot a ?pisscutter? like that. They want to have the opportunity to hunt during the peak of the rut, look at numerous monster bulls, call them in to close range, and then shoot the bull of their choice with a custom rifle at 50 yards. You may think I am exaggerating but Don Peay recently expressed this very sentiment on this very website:

Perhaps our hunting ?model? is all wrong. States maximize selling the number of permits to make the most money, and then hope hunters are NOT successful. How many car dealers would get away with that, sell all the cars you can, make them cheap, then expect your customers to be happy that 34% of them work? The Utah model is to have 100% success. The hunting comes part become looking at lots of bulls each day, hunting for the ONE you want, be it B and C score, typical, non typical, etc. Maybe Utards have it right, and the other states have it wrong!

(http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/16746.html - Post #3)

Now, I want to hunt big animals as much as anybody else. However, the position advocated by Don, Bessie and other like-minded individuals is completely wrong and if we continue down that road we will reduce opportunity to the point that our kids will not have the opportunity to enjoy the sport of hunting--all in the name of big money and monster animals. We have to strike a balance between quality and opportunity.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
BUBBA thats what you and the CATALU don't get and can't understand!!!!

You can't get past your selfish viewpoint that primitive weapons are getting something you are not.

I won't waste my time trying to "SPLAIN" it to you and LU I've tried too many damn times.

Keep doing exactly what you are doing!!! Don't even think of pissing and moaning about anything!!! THIS IS THE EXACT MANAGEMENT PLAN YOU ALL HAVE BEEN BEGGING FOR.

Carry on




*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-10 AT 01:22PM (MST)[p]What don't I get.

"My selfish viewpoint"? You dont know my overall viewpoint. I do know that its the selfish bowhunters that want all the changes. Why do you think they give more rifle tags than archery tags? Because there are more people that choose this weapon than any other. Move it out of the rut. I have no problem with that. But thats not enough for you. You don't see a problem with one group of hunters getting a lot more opportunity than another group? Then you will say, pick up a bow. Well right back at you.

To use your words:You can't get past your selfish viewpoint that rifle hunters are getting something you are not.
 
If they give more "archery" tags founder is gonna have to overhaul and double the bandwidth to keep up with the "lost bull" and "someones sitting my waterhole, then there's the "stolen camera" threads..cant wait.

Bowhunters could have a year round season and still be on here crying about something thats unfair.
 
Who really gives a crap about bowhunting and getting more tags for archers??? THAT IS NOT THE POINT!

The point is this:

We must kill X number of Elk every year on every unit or they are over populated. Each unit has a target. Got it?

We can do that by killing Bulls and Cows. Can you see any other way of killing elk without killing bulls and cows????

If you only kill a few bulls, GUESS WHAT, you have to kill more cows to make up the total number needed.

We are out of balance on most units, we are killing TOO many Cows and NOT enough bulls. The bulls we are killing are always the top end bulls.

Pretty soon, we have to kill more and more cows..and WHAMMO you have the Anthro Unit.

The Anthro Unit sucks, because we killed too many cows, while at the same time, we shot out all the top end bulls.

Is that plain enough to understand?
 
++++1 bowhunt....i will just say that it is sad that people question if a 350 bull is a shooter or not...very sad....i have had 2 tag's and my wife 1 in one of the least desireable units in the state and killed bulls that most colorado guys on the best units would have lowered the hammer on, all 3 bulls were bigger than most of the elk my friends and friends of friends killed on the BEST units of the state. the problem is that most of the hunters in utah that draw a LE tag expect BIG bulls running everywhere and provide multiple chances at BIG bulls from the road or at least in sight, and when they don't they blame the weather, spike hunters, cow hunters, obama, etc....
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-10 AT 03:23PM (MST)[p]Bowhunt said: "The problem is that most of the hunters in utah that draw a LE tag expect BIG bulls running everywhere and provide multiple chances at BIG bulls from the road or at least in sight . . ."

According to Don Peay, that is exactly how it should be even if it means that we only get the opportunity to hunt a mature once or twice in our lifetimes.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
"Who really gives a crap about bowhunting and getting more tags for archers??? THAT IS NOT THE POINT!"

Tell that to C3 and Wiley. Thats exactly what what they state.

So bowhunt what is your solution? To kill more bulls. I know, but how?
 
Bubba my stance is plain and clear in post 28!!!

carry on




*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
You're proving yourself a real work of art more by the minute there c3!
GEEZUS!

WOW!
This one amazes me right out of your mouth c3!

"I could repost dozens more. I've been saying the same thing since the mid 90's when this whole cluster got started."

You might wanna think(Use that Round/Square thang atop your shoulders)before spouting off like that you idiot!

FYI!

That Cluster that started in the mid 90's is what's responsible for JACKASSES like you getting a Trophy Bull today!

GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY!

You still don't get it!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
ww says:

carry on!
carry on!
carry on!
carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!carry on!

Ya,lets carry on like we have the last several years & we won't have a damn thing left,but BY GAWD the Opportunists will be happy!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-10 AT 08:01PM (MST)[p]You should work for the dwr since you seem to know everything. Than maybe utahs elk herds would be full of big bulls and I might have a chance to hunt a big bull in fifty years when I turn sevnty six. I would be proud of a three hundred inch bull if I ever get the chance to go after one.
 
>You're proving yourself a real work
>of art more by the
>minute there c3!
>GEEZUS!

I really do consider myself a real work of art :)
Lest you forget that God has said we are fearfully and wonderfully made!

>WOW!
>This one amazes me right out
>of your mouth c3!

What? You think I just came up with these numbers out of thin air? That I just like to piss off the rifle hunters I suppose?

Maybe we should try a couple of Arizona units known for monster bulls on a regular basis, no?

How about unit 9 for instance. 25 rifle tags in Sept., 100 archery.

How about unit 10, another that any of us would love to draw. 50 rifle tags in Sept., 150 archery.

How is that so? Unit 9 is much smaller size than the San Juan with similar numbers of elk yet there are 4 times the number of archery permits than rifle permits in the rut. They also have a late Nov. rifle hunt that has 275 permits. Yet they have similar quality to the San Juan year in an year out. Again I say how is that so?

Open your eyes and see. We have been sold a bill of goods by the wealth tag proponents that have no interest in you ever hunting a premium unit in your lifetime while the those with the means can hunt it every year.

I see the system implemented in the early 90's for what it is. Not the thing that gave me a great hunt, but the thing that prevented me from ever hunting for 25 years. A system that has never allowed you to have ever hunted and our kids with virtually no chance of ever hunting.

I will never consider that a fair trade. Less than 15% of those that ever apply will get to hunt with our current system. Sadly that is the truism that we have come to not to mention that it is biologically unsound.

I find that unacceptable and inspite of your continuous insults will continue to fight the system that caters to the wealthy at the expense of all the rest of us.

Cheers,
Pete
 
CATALU, you've finally gone off the deep end BROTHA!!!!

Like I asked earlier SHOW ME ONCE IN THE LAST 10 YEARS WHERE OPPORTUNISTS HAVE MADE HEADWAY?? Ya can't cause it hasn't happened!!!

Keep managing for higher age class bulls, keep the herds out of whack and you'll continue to have what you have, a steady decline
and wholesale cow slaughters!!!

How many calves does a BULL give birth to in a given year LU???





*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
I fought against the Bonus Point system before it ever was in effect!
I said it wasn't a FAIR system & would not work in the long run,but nobody listened!

WAKE TF up c3!
Show me one post in over 14,000 posts now where I've ever said I was in this for the Rich hunters Pete?

I'm for Quality,maintaining Quality without f'n it up!

Guess you might ought to get out & about a little more often c3?

Not every TARD/Opportunist can hunt Trophy Bulls in this state,let alone hunt them every damn year like you & ww want to!
Get it through your thick skull!


God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
ww?

How many f'n rocket scientists does it take to figure this out?

You ever heard of:Enough is Enough on the Cow Slaughters?

Evidently not,you Opportunists just wanna keep killing,as long as you wanna kill,the DWR will keep selling you a license to do so!

When they're all gone,who you gonna Bittch and Whine at?



God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-10 AT 09:27PM (MST)[p]Why do you get so mad when others dont agree with you? Everyone is entitled to there opinion weather its right or wrong, but you say some mean things when you dont agree with them.

I consider myself a oppurtunist but not so I can just kill something, so i can have a chance to be out roaming the hills making memories to share with my daughter when she gets older. If i get lucky and harvest a animal than thats just the frosting on the cake.
 
Alright LU-CAT I am going to type really really slow here so you can get this through your thick skull. Are you with me so far???

Opportunists want to increase the amount of big bull tags to bring bull to cow ratio's in to a healthy balance. 1 to 1 ain't healthy. Keep quality up but keep herds healthy. Still with me??

I could care less how you do it. A dead bull is a dead bull weather it's by arrow bullet or sabot. Still with me???

You inch freaks along with the TAG PIMPS want to kill everything BUT bulls cause LU-CAT has been waiting 35 years to draw under his system and damnit he better have a 600 inch bull waiting or he's gonna be pissed, TAG PIMPS can sell BULL tags for more money than a cow or spike tag. Still on board??

HABITAT can only sustain so many animals ( ask a mule deer )
and since you and "The Don" soil yourself every time somebody speaks about killing any more bulls you MUST KILL COWS!!!

Do ya get it now??? I've asked you SEVERAL TIMES to show me where in the last decade OPPORTUNISTS have made ANY gains that would cause what you've seen.. You duck it just like all of the other A-HOLES that wonder why things are going to #####.

Every Biologist for the last five years has been telling you this was coming. MULEPACKER knows more about elk than pretty much anyone on this board. Has no dog in the fight. And he told your can collecting ass this YEARS ago.

WAKE TF UP pendejo!!! You did this not the opportunists!!





*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
>Show me one post in over
>14,000 posts now where I've
>ever said I was in
>this for the Rich hunters
>Pete?

I've never said you were in this for rich hunters. I've always considered you one of us. The difference is that you support the system of cutting bull tags for quality. You have always been for cutting bull tags for quality. Now that things are turning south you're suggesting that we cut more tags by your insinuation that it's the opportunists who are the problem.

By default this means you're in favor of massive cow slaughters and now the need for spike hunts. You can't have it both ways.

If you're not for the cow slaughters and not for the spike hunts, how can we have a consistantly healthy elk herd at maximum carrying capacity with the quality you think appropriate?

I've been a proponent of one solution that has been proven in other states and particularly proven here close to my home. A unit where 10,000 hunters get to go after 200" bucks every year. No, it's not like the Henries or the Strip, but none the less a super quality hunt every year for 4 months straight.

You're screaming BeBop and I get it, but you have nothing but insults for those that might have an alternative solution.

Cheers,
Pete
 
Funny stuff there. Blaming "opportunists" for the cow shoots.

Like everyone has pointed out, cows are shot because the lobbyists won't allow the bulls to shot.

Go to the Bucks and Bulls RAC/Board meetings. Always the lobbyists there to "protect" the bull herd.

Then go to an Antlerless RAC/Board meeting. No one there to protect the cows. See cows are not worth the cash.

When I killed my 8 year old OIL bull elk with a ML I was happy with him. He had 54" beams. Heavy, bladed antlers. A couple points that were a little broke. Only grossed high 330s, but with the broken he would have been in the 350s. People asked if I couldn't find a bigger one. Nope. So yeah, I can be proud. I didn't do it for anyone else but me.
 
Well Aaron!
I'm not mad!
Very few of you have seen me mad!
And very few of you would want to see me mad!:D

I never said there wasn't places/hunts for opportunists!
Join the General Hunts & Pumpkins & have at it!

But when the GREEDY OPPORTUNISTS start destroying the LE Trophy Units due to jealousy & Greed,Ya I've got a problem with them!

And for c3!

You still ain't listening,GEEZUS!
There comes a time a Herd will need thinning,so yes,go ahead and take the 'needed' number of Cows & even some Bulls with PISS POOR GENETICS out of the Herd!

But BY GAWD! Don't do 8-10 years worth of Cow slaughters & decimate the Herd like they've done on a couple of Units already!That SShit don't work!You comprehend that part c3?

And one other thing c3,don't over kill the Cows & then start decimating the Spikes on LE Units either!

I'm going to suggest to you c3,that you and your Opportunist buddies start your own units,manage them as you please,why hell,have un-limited tags if you'd like,shoot all the Cows you can,when the Cows are gone shoot every f'n Bull on the Unit too,just shoot them all,but when it's all said & done I don't wanna hear one peep out of you cuzz there ain't a damn thing left!

I suggested the same thing to Pro & others a few years ago but I guess nobody had the guts to get their own type of management units going,as usual,Opportunists wanna grab what others have accomplished after all the work has been done!If you opportunists would of started your own units when I first suggested it you'd be PISSCUTTIN today!

Hunt the General Hunts just like I do c3!
No,they ain't as good as the LE Units you want to destroy but BY GAWD look at the Opportunity!

***SPECIAL NOTE FOR c3 & FOLLOWERS:
There ain't enough Bulls in LE Units for every TARD to have a Tag Every year,so get over it!





God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-10 AT 09:53AM (MST)[p]>But when the GREEDY OPPORTUNISTS start
>destroying the LE Trophy Units
>due to jealousy & Greed,Ya
>I've got a problem with
>them!


I'm an opportunist, I'd whack a "pisscutter" bull on a famed LE unit in a heartbeat. Who gives a crap about your so called destroyed LE hunts, the bulls getting shot don't, just those that want to make money and have some bragging rights. Whats funny is your rants about whats wrong with LE units these days and your "advice" [would] only contribute to the so called problem....and now you're complaining about busted up bulls??????? WOW!!!!! That's a good one, unbelievable. Stop managing for 400" bulls and the 350's will be special once again and the money & greed driven hunters will go away....just take a look at other states not known for their 400" bulls. Healthy herds is what mother nature cares about.

Here's a newsflash B-BOP, not everyone shares your opinion about what an LE hunt should offer so stop trying to brow beat everyone into thinking like you.
 
Good to see ya alive and kickin' Mikey!!!!

Did ya get to Wyo this year??



*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
Wow!
Buttmania is a real brain storm!
Gotta be a TARD!
An opportunist TARD!

Better pull your head out of the sand!
Or maybe go pound sand!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-10 AT 04:40PM (MST)[p]>Wow!
>Buttmania is a real brain storm!
>
>Gotta be a TARD!
>An opportunist TARD!
>
>Better pull your head out of
>the sand!
>Or maybe go pound sand!
>
>God is Great!
>Life is Good!
>And People are Crazy!
>
>I love not acting my age,
>
>Damn I love my NASCAR race,
>
>And Hell yes I love my
>Truck!


Is that all you got? Really? Name calling? Alright, here it goes.....you're a poopy face!!!!

How did I do?
 
Well!
You showed your Smarts on your 1st post on this Thread!
Oh,did I tell you?
You done Well!
You could hire on as the UDWR Director immediately!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 

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