Calling out SFW, looking for JMO, step up boys!!

hossblur

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
11,416
Here it is, the coming of winter, we had an election, the critters are moving to winter range. WE NEED TO MAKE POACHING A FELONY. We live at a time when a deer is worth $275k. Elk go for 5 digits pretty regularly. We need poaching to become a serious crime. If I steal your $10k car, FELONY. We are WAY to easy on this CRIME that steals from all of us. SFW, you claim to be for the little guy, you claim to represent the sport, we all know that THE DON isn't your leader anymore(someone should tell him), but THE DON got where he is as lead azz kisser for the wealthy and connected when it comes to capitol hill because of the membership of SFW, PUT HIS AZZ TO WORK. The session starts soon, I WANT A FELONY POACHER BILL!! JMO, you asked me to back off SFW, you and I talked and you told me all about the "new SFW", get a felony poacher bill passed, I WILL JOIN THE NEXT DAY. This is one cancer that is destroying mule deer that we CAN do something about, and do it pretty easily. SFW, you have legislators in your back pocket. This is a slam dunk, other than poaching scum bags, who, or why would it be opposed??




"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Is there a write up defining what a poacher is??


If someone shoots an animal a few minutes before dark during a season does that make them a poacher??


OR the way I read your post is your referring to Winter areas only????

Ya poaching is bad and I wont argue that but if this bill would tie into other things would a cocky game warden write ya up for little things and nail ya with a felony??

Im not putting your post down but just a little more detail
 
hossblur. I think it is already one. they just all ways drop it down if you plead,,,,,,
 
Hossblur,

Was any of that post based in any logic whatsoever or just a complete emotional rant.

When you want your deer to be treated like your car then you have to be ready to pay that much for the deer tag. The state will start paying a lot more attention to protecting the deer the minute you have to lay out 10 grand each time you want a deer tag.
 
Why is it the SFW's responsibility?

People don't want the SFW, but anytime something comes up, the always want THE DON to step up and do something.
 
WOW, even in a post you are asking for help from SFW you bag on them and Don personally. I don't know if that post was funny or or just off the charts ignorant.
 
tirstate please keep your dumb ##### to your selfe. (10.000 grand each time you want a deer tag}what kind of shizz do you smoke???/
 
>WOW, even in a post you
>are asking for help from
>SFW you bag on them
>and Don personally. I
>don't know if that post
>was funny or or just
>off the charts ignorant.

Seemed a bit odd to me too.
If "we" want help from someone then normally we don't bash them first.
Zeke

BTW: I agree with the OP completely. Blatant poaching and "head-hunting" poaching should be punished much much more severely! These dudes are the thieves who would steal everything from us if they could with zero regard for fair chase!
 
Not sure I like the idea of an automatic felony for poaching. Like stated above, what is the definition of poaching? I don't want to see a guy get a felony for shooting 3 minutes before legal time or shooting 23' from the road when the law is 25'...

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


>wah wah wah......
a certain individuals response on 8/12/2014 to anyone that commits suicide.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID11/19864.html
There are many things that would be nice to wish for or say but then I would be just like him.
 
Hossblur, it would be opposed because it should be opposed. Because most "poaching" if you can even call it that does not involve shooting deer on its winter range or even a loss of an animal to the state. Most often poaching is done by an honest hunter who breaks some silly law that he didnt even know about or should not have been enacted in the first place. I think if poaching were as simple as causing actual harm to wildlife rather than not following some silly procedure that some one like you pushed threw the legislature everyone would be and should be for stern punishment for it...No there ought not be a Law... Hossblur, are you aware that you, like me, are a poacher? (everyone in Utah is) and that you are screaming for a long prison sentence for yourself?



Grand Slam #911
 
>Here it is, the coming of
>winter, we had an election,
>the critters are moving to
>winter range. WE NEED
>TO MAKE POACHING A FELONY.
> We live at a
>time when a deer is
>worth $275k. Elk go
>for 5 digits pretty regularly.
> We need poaching to
>become a serious crime.
>If I steal your $10k
>car, FELONY. We are
>WAY to easy on this
>CRIME that steals from all
>of us. SFW, you
>claim to be for the
>little guy, you claim to
>represent the sport, we all
>know that THE DON isn't
>your leader anymore(someone should tell
>him), but THE DON got
>where he is as lead
>azz kisser for the wealthy
>and connected when it comes
>to capitol hill because of
>the membership of SFW, PUT
>HIS AZZ TO WORK.
>The session starts soon, I
>WANT A FELONY POACHER BILL!!
> JMO, you asked me
>to back off SFW, you
>and I talked and you
>told me all about the
>"new SFW", get a felony
>poacher bill passed, I WILL
>JOIN THE NEXT DAY.
>This is one cancer that
>is destroying mule deer that
>we CAN do something about,
>and do it pretty easily.
> SFW, you have legislators
>in your back pocket.
>This is a slam dunk,
>other than poaching scum bags,
>who, or why would it
>be opposed??
>
>
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"

I respect your passion towards wildlife. I understand your frustration with those who knowingly break laws in order to harvest game. I suggest you speak with your state representative and share your thoughts. I also suggest you take notes from the comments above. To charge someone with a felony for all acts that fall under the definition of poaching would not be wise.
You are always invited to our Weber/Davis SFW chapter meetings. Last week we met with the DWR to plan, and discuss how we could assist them in trapping and relocating deer from Bountiful. We also met with a representative from the youth waterfowl fair that takes place each year at Farmington bay. There is so much to do we could use your help.
 
>>Here it is, the coming of
>>winter, we had an election,
>>the critters are moving to
>>winter range. WE NEED
>>TO MAKE POACHING A FELONY.
>> We live at a
>>time when a deer is
>>worth $275k. Elk go
>>for 5 digits pretty regularly.
>> We need poaching to
>>become a serious crime.
>>If I steal your $10k
>>car, FELONY. We are
>>WAY to easy on this
>>CRIME that steals from all
>>of us. SFW, you
>>claim to be for the
>>little guy, you claim to
>>represent the sport, we all
>>know that THE DON isn't
>>your leader anymore(someone should tell
>>him), but THE DON got
>>where he is as lead
>>azz kisser for the wealthy
>>and connected when it comes
>>to capitol hill because of
>>the membership of SFW, PUT
>>HIS AZZ TO WORK.
>>The session starts soon, I
>>WANT A FELONY POACHER BILL!!
>> JMO, you asked me
>>to back off SFW, you
>>and I talked and you
>>told me all about the
>>"new SFW", get a felony
>>poacher bill passed, I WILL
>>JOIN THE NEXT DAY.
>>This is one cancer that
>>is destroying mule deer that
>>we CAN do something about,
>>and do it pretty easily.
>> SFW, you have legislators
>>in your back pocket.
>>This is a slam dunk,
>>other than poaching scum bags,
>>who, or why would it
>>be opposed??
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"The only thing that stops a
>>bad guy with a gun
>>is a good guy with
>>a gun"
>
>I respect your passion towards wildlife.
>I understand your frustration with
>those who knowingly break laws
>in order to harvest game.
> I suggest you speak
>with your state representative and
>share your thoughts. I also
>suggest you take notes from
>the comments above. To
>charge someone with a felony
>for all acts that fall
>under the definition of poaching
>would not be wise.
>You are always invited to our
>Weber/Davis SFW chapter meetings. Last
>week we met with the
>DWR to plan, and discuss
>how we could assist them
>in trapping and relocating deer
>from Bountiful. We also met
>with a representative from the
>youth waterfowl fair that takes
>place each year at Farmington
>bay. There is so much
>to do we could use
>your help.

Justin, I was hoping you would see this. Here is my point, and again a lot of guys need to learn to read. The winter range part was in pointing out that winter is coming, as winter comes so does the states legislative session. Yup I did take a shot. Feb. will mean expo time again, and again SFW will put out an emergency post about saving the mule deer(similar to the ones the NRA puts out when they want money). Yes tristar, in Utah if you are convicted of poaching, you are charged with restitution of that animal. I don't at this moment have the ammounts, but if a deer is worth $5000-7500 on average, then that should be the restitution charged. I believe that ammount should be pushed high enough that it enters felony territory. If we have too many weak kneed DA's then perhaps a minimum mandatory should be added. If you "camels nose" guys are worried about shooting a duck 3 minutes before shooting time, we could address the defintion of poaching(or you could buy a watch and follow the law).
I am not talking necesarily about elkun shooting a pheasant out of season(although poaching should be poaching), I am however talking about professional poachers. I am talking about the "trophy poachers" that we all love to watch shooting the DWR's robotic decoys at night. I am not talking about accidental poachings, but accidents aren't what is negatively affecting wildlife, its the pros and wanna be's that are.
Justin, I called out SFW because it gets an unbelievable ammount of money from the state(i believe it to be welfare, but we have agreed to disagree). I called out SFW because they have set the market price. SFW guaranteed 6 figures for the AI tag. SFW sets the market every year at their expo. FYI i am contacting MDF, RMEF, DU and asking them to do the same. You can relocate all the deer you want, but if they are gunned down to sell the antlers, what was accomplished?
"Trophy poachers" should not be protected by us. Let a few of them spend a couple years in Draper/Gunison, let them give up their firearm rights, let them have to put up their homes. Funny we lock up your neighbor for smoking a joint, but if he kills that 30" buck in Feb, its ok if he pleads down to nothing. That joint don't hurt anyone, the loss of those genetics hurts us all. You can bet your azz that Deseret, The Heatons, and any other CWMU won't look the other way if someone poaches their animals, WHY THE HELL ARE WE?
Justin, thanks for the pheasants, I actually shot one of those little fellers, he ate good.
I am a man of my word. SFW could get the AI hunt pushed through, despite the majority not wanting it, how about something that benefits us all, I will join the next day.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>Hossblur, it would be opposed because
>it should be opposed. Because
>most "poaching" if you can
>even call it that does
>not involve shooting deer on
>its winter range or even
>a loss of an animal
>to the state. Most often
>poaching is done by an
>honest hunter who breaks some
>silly law that he didnt
>even know about or should
>not have been enacted in
>the first place. I think
>if poaching were as simple
>as causing actual harm to
>wildlife rather than not following
>some silly procedure that some
>one like you pushed threw
>the legislature everyone would be
>and should be for stern
>punishment for it...No there ought
>not be a Law... Hossblur,
>are you aware that you,
>like me, are a poacher?
>(everyone in Utah is) and
>that you are screaming for
>a long prison sentence for
>yourself?
>
>
>
>Grand Slam #911

The average man in Utah, if he drinks 2 beers in an hour, then drives eats a DUI. With that comes a year without a license, fines, in some cases a breath lock out installed(at your expense), court costs, and the big hit, your insurance goes through the roof. That is if you are pulled over. Not if you hurt someone, wrecked, etc, only if you are pulled over. If you shoot that 30" buck because by gawd you can sell the horns to some idiot, or because your just an idiot, we should look the other way. Yeah, there are a lot of laws on the books that we break every day. I did 80 on the freeways today. If you kill a bull because you can sell the horns are you telling me we shouldn't care because you shot that mallard 1 minute before shooting time? Are we supposed to be so stupid that we can't tell the difference in the two? We can open up poaching to a less broad definition, I would agree, but the penalties for poaching aren't a deterent, and until they are, the "pros", and "trophy" poachers will keep doing it. No, if your house is full of horns from poaching, it wasn't an accident. If your "patrolling" the winter range with your spotting scope and compound bow, it wasn't an accident. I would support letting the DWR keep the houses, trucks, etc, when they bust a poacher. Similar to how the police keep the proceeds and items used by drug dealers. The DWR could use the funding, we could use less poachers. We put a bounty on coyotes, why not poachers?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Hossblur,

I want you to look at this from a business standpoint. You sell a product for $500. You hold the patent on said product and therefore have complete control over its manufacture and distribution. You discover that a company has opened up that is POACHING your product design and selling it themselves.

PAY CLOSE ATTENTION BECUASE THIS IS IMPORTANT.

You get a judgement on the product poachers that states they have to pay you $7500 for every single product they sell. Here's what's crazy. They keep making your product and kicking you back the $7500 per piece that you were only getting $500 for.

Here is the important question. WHY WOULD YOU TRY TO STOP THE PRODUCT POACHERS?


This is not a rhetorical question. I want you to think and then answer the question. Take emotion out and just look at the dollars.
 
Do you really think the guys that are poaching give a rats ass about a felony?




hornkiller.jpg
 
The law currently says if a trophy buck is shot, it can be a 3rd degree felony. If a buck is shot at night, it can be a 3rd degree felony. Google Wanton destruction of protective wildlife and look at the law.
I thought the trophy buck meant a 4 point or bigger that had a spread of 24 inches or bigger. I thought the restitution fee was 6K. Does anyone know for sure?


Thanks.
 
Good point Tristate. Fish Cops should not profit from poaching and a War on poaching would certainly result in more poaching and more things being called poaching. We could all look forward to being busted for possession of poaching paraphernalia...and YES hossblur The Law is so stupid that it cant tell the difference between the two, even if a ordinary person can...Sportsmen need to occupy the middle ground. Somewhere between the extremes of hard core poachers on one end and hard core Law Enforcement on the other. Neither one of these extreme positions is objective. Sporstmen need to be in the middle where we can maintain some common sense. A man who would hold others up to blame and severe punishment that had not caused harm or done wrong is no better than a poacher who would shot a trophy deer on its winter range.
 
>Good point Tristate.

Birds of similar plumage assemble


>Fish Cops should
>not profit from poaching and
>a War on poaching would
>certainly result in more
>poaching and more things being
>called poaching.

OK, let's STOP using the term POACHING. To some, poaching means killing an animal out of season or without a tag. To others it means shooting 5 minutes before legal shooting hours. "Poaching" is a word with about as much specificity as the color grey.

The laws and penalties for violations are pretty specific as to meaning. If they are not then clear them up so they are. There will always be room for discussion with a given game warden, a given judge and a given member of the public. But that is true no matter what. The judge has the final say.

Let's stop referring to everything under the sun as "poaching".



[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
23-20-4. Wanton destruction of protected wildlife -- Penalties.

(1) A person is guilty of wanton destruction of protected wildlife if that person:

(a) commits an act in violation of Section 23-13-4, 23-13-5, 23-13-13, 23-15-6 through 23-15-9, 23-16-5, or Subsection 23-20-3(1);

(b) captures, injures, or destroys protected wildlife; and

(c) (i) does so with intentional, knowing, or reckless conduct as defined in Section 76-2-103;

(ii) intentionally abandons protected wildlife or a carcass;

(iii) commits the offense at night with the use of a weapon;

(iv) is under a court or division revocation of a license, tag, permit, or certificate of registration; or

(v) acts for pecuniary gain.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to actions taken in accordance with:

(a) Title 4, Chapter 14, Utah Pesticide Control Act;

(b) Title 4, Chapter 23, Agricultural and Wildlife Damage Prevention Act; or

(c) Section 23-16-3.1.

(3) Wanton destruction of wildlife is punishable:

(a) as a third degree felony if:

(i) the aggregate value of the protected wildlife determined by the values in Subsection (4) is more than $500; or

(ii) a trophy animal was captured, injured, or destroyed;

So you kill a trophy animal, the law says it is a 3ed degree felony. No more guns or hunting, if this is correct?
 
As you can see above POACHING IS not wearing the right color of clothes because 23-20-3(1)q use a means of camo not authorized is criminal and POACHING IS shooting from your 4 wheeler 23-20-3(1)k use of a motorized vehicle. etc. etc. most times you break a law while hunting you have poached. HOSSBLUR wants you to go to prison and have your life ruined because of the color of you hat.
 
Do the words POACH, POACHED, POACHES, POACHING appear ANYWHERE in the statute?


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-14 AT 08:43PM (MST)[p]Really trammer? Poaching is not wearing camo clothing? Please go read the game and fish laws a little more before you make yourself look like a fool. Throwing out ignorant posts like your last doesn't help your cause.

P.S. I don't want to see SFW in anything wildlife/management/legislation.
 
Poaching in the Law is always titled "Wanton Destruction of Wildlife" and includes dozens if not hundreds of different offenses and that is the problem, the Law makes no distinction between shooting a deer on its winter range and not wearing the right color clothing during hunting season or using your ATV as a shooting rest during hunting season. See Hunting50s post 23-20-4 (1) (a) 23-20-3 (1) k or q is how the Poaching or Wanton Destruction of Wildlife charge will be read. What I am saying is that hunters should not support this kind of blind injustice. The charge does not read "failed to have the right color clothes on" it reads "Wanton Destruction of Wildlife" because of this Law titling fraud anyone reading about your ticket for not having the right color hat is lead to believe you poached your deer, because legally you did.
 
Wrong again trammer. The citation would read "requirement to wear orange" under Utah wildlife resources code 23-20-31. Everything does NOT fall under "wanton destruction of wildlife". Check out the link NVbighorn posted.
 
grosventrehunter, I get that it is hard to follow. But you need to notice how the statute you pointed out (23-20-3(1)) is specifically called out as a violation of 23-20-4 (Wanton destruction)

You guys need to trust me on issues like this. I am well qualified to speak on this subject. For example, I was once charged with Poaching a Desert Bighorn Sheep in a National Park simply because me and my hunter traveled threw the National Park on our way to the hunt. Nothing more...you see contained and buried deep (I like to think, in the lower intestine) of the Federal Law are overly broad definitions of what constitutes Poaching. In my case the legal charge was: UNLAWFULLY TAKING WILDLIFE i.e Desert Bighorn Sheep in a National Park. Because one definition of "take" in the Law was to "pursue" and because we were transiting to our hunting unit threw the National Park, prior to our hunt, the Park Rangers figured that the transit alone, constituted "pursuit" which constituted "Take"...A Ram, that never roamed the National Park was imaginaryily POACHED there as a matter of fact...Oh, if only the Poaching charge were imaginary.
It was a hard charge to take as I watched all the Buffalo hunters transit threw the same National Park in the coarse of their Buffalo hunts with the blessings of the Park Rangers. It seems more specifically my crime was being a Sheep Hunter rather than a Buffalo hunter.
 
"It seems more specifically my crime was being a Sheep Hunter rather than a Buffalo hunter."

Excellent post!

Most people would think nothing of doing it the same way you did.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
At is because when you draw a buffalo tag and take the dwr coarse they tell you how to travel through the park and if you follow the rules they do not bother you.
 
I got busted for "poaching" a shower once. My friend had membership to a KOA. We swung in on our way to Jackson just to shower. The game warden stopped us on our way out, got us out of our vehicle and said we were under arrest for "poaching a shower". It took a bit to prove that we had a membership, but I was interested in the term he used.

Point being poaching can mean a lot of things. But I don't disagree, blatantly killing a big game animal out season or without a proper license should carry a very stiff penalty . However, only having 395 square inches of hunter orange probably shouldn't fall in the same category as far as penalties imposed are concerned...
 
Trammer,

Did you hire an attorney on that Park deal? Or did you attempt to defend yourself? I would think that a fresh-out-of-school attorney could have beat that charge... unless, of course, there is more to the story. And there always is.

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
JMO, sorry bro. I have now read some of the dumbest shizz ever in this forum, which I admit is saying something. Nevermind. We should NOT inhance penalties for killing wildlife out of season. I thought perhaps the general understanding of why this is a negetive on wildlife would prevail. Instead I got Tristate talking about kickbacks. I have someone else discussing not wearing camo. And yet another discussing a shower. So I officially want to withdraw this thread. JEZUS H., we wonder why SFW et al are so successful, this thread shows why. They only need 3 people to STAY ON MESSAGE to get things pushed through. There are over 30 posts on this, and it is mostly someone wanting to show how smart they can be, a dude from texas who confuses poaching for pirating, and somehow a KOA. Why you guys argue about a word, or shower, TODAY a professional killer is KILLING out of season, and most likely selling the horns. OR a PROFESSIONAL is transporting cats out of UTAH to COLO. and hobbling so they can PROFIT from it. Recently I believe in Kent, or Penn. there was a monster bull poached BY A PROFESSIONAL KILLER to be sold for PROFIT. No I don't know if he was freshly showered or camoed up, but I do know what killing out of area and out of season are, and I know why it is done, and to pretend thats similar to shooting 5 min early or 2 inches close to a road I THOUGHT would be easy to decipher. I personally believe a 2 yr prison term for the colorado cat boys(whats that 6 months with good behavior) is laughable. How much did they profit doing this, I doubt it was the first time? SFW, JMO, I think I get the power of the group, I thought it was money, its just a clear message, something that the actual majority of sportsmen can't grasp I guess. Justin tell Jack Manning I said Hey!!, he works to damn much!!



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Hossblur,

I never said a single thing about kickbacks. You need to read my questions think about it and then answer them.

I find it amusing that on one thread on these forums everyone is talking about how sportsmen pay for wildlife and then on this thread you can't understand YOU are devaluing your wildlife and that is why people don't care about your voice in government.
 
Easy man. Remember your initial comment was "WE NEED TO MAKE POACHING A FELONY". My point was that poaching has a broad definition. The game warden stated that taking an unauthorized shower was poaching. His term not mine. I don't think that should be a felony. How about you?

I know what you mean and don't believe you meant "poaching" as you stated originaly, but the unlawful taking of big game should be a felony, correct? I am with you 100% and if you can find the language to use to distinguish that and put it in a petition, I will be the first in line to sign it...
 
utarchery, as do you. You are from Utah. Everything you have ever shot has been poached.

NVBighorn, I did hire a lawyer. Unfortunatly Lawyers cant do magic and change the meaning of words or stop the insidious growth in what poaching actually is. It is noteworthy of how traveling came to constitute poaching in my case:

in a prior case of a bear hunter near Smoky Mountain National Park.Seems the bear the hunter was running near the NP ran into the Park for a while and then came back out of the Park and was treed and "PRESTO" "ALA peanut butter sandwiches" hunters everywhere had a new law to contend with As a result the word pursuit was added as one of the definitions of the word "hunting" and "Hunting" was already one of the definitions of "take" in the CFR. And, the New Poaching Law that all hunters were burdened with, wasnt even passed by elected Officials...it was passed by Cops!

NVBighorn,as I remember, Because my case would have been cost me tens of thousands of dollars to take to trial and would have involved dragging my hunter into Court. I opted to resolve it my case by pleading to a charge of trespassing. Trespassing on public Land that was open to the public. Make sense of it if you can....
 
>
>NVBighorn, I did hire a lawyer.
>Unfortunatly Lawyers cant do magic
>and change the meaning of
>words or stop the insidious
>growth in what poaching actually
>is. It is noteworthy of
>how traveling came to constitute
>poaching in my case:
>

Should have gotten Tristate to represent you.




> in a prior
>case of a bear hunter
>near Smoky Mountain National Park.Seems
>the bear the hunter was
>running near the NP ran
>into the Park for a
>while and then came back
>out of the Park and
>was treed and "PRESTO" "ALA
>peanut butter sandwiches" hunters everywhere
>had a new law to
>contend with As a result
>the word pursuit was added
>as one of the definitions
>of the word "hunting" and
>"Hunting" was already one of
>the definitions of "take" in
>the CFR.

In my opinion that guy should have known he was on shakey ground. I'm no lawyer and don't know the details, but I think he was "hunting" the entire time his dogs were in pursuit. It's the risk you take walking that line.


>NVBighorn,as I remember, Because my case
>would have been cost me
>tens of thousands of dollars
>to take to trial and
>would have involved dragging my
>hunter into Court. I opted
>to resolve it my case
>by pleading to a charge
>of trespassing. Trespassing on public
>Land that was open to
>the public. Make sense of
>it if you can....


There is often no sense to be made of plea arrangements. You did what you had to do to make t go away. I still think it could have been beaten... again, unless there's more to the story.


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
NVBighorn I also agree with you. The Houndsman was "Hunting" the entire time. What I dont recall was if the bear was even shot or not. The proper thing to do if the houndman was aware that the bear had been chased in the park would be to let the bear go and not shoot it because it was illegally trailed threw the park.

My point was being how the word "pursuit" that did constitute actual "Hunting" in the National Park for the houndsman did not constitute hunting for me or the Sheep Hunter and how honest sportsmen can fall victim to bad Law or a Park Ranger with out any common sense.

Grand Slam #911
 
The question begs to b asked as I had a couple buddies do this very thing thru a federally protected area this fall, why didn't u go to the rangers prior to your hunt and seek permission to cross to reach your hunting area? Or did u know it was illegal a did it anyway hopein not to get caught?
 
>utarchery, as do you. You are
>from Utah. Everything you have
>ever shot has been poached.
>
>
>NVBighorn, I did hire a lawyer.
>Unfortunatly Lawyers cant do magic
>and change the meaning of
>words or stop the insidious
>growth in what poaching actually
>is. It is noteworthy of
>how traveling came to constitute
>poaching in my case:
>
> in a prior
>case of a bear hunter
>near Smoky Mountain National Park.Seems
>the bear the hunter was
>running near the NP ran
>into the Park for a
>while and then came back
>out of the Park and
>was treed and "PRESTO" "ALA
>peanut butter sandwiches" hunters everywhere
>had a new law to
>contend with As a result
>the word pursuit was added
>as one of the definitions
>of the word "hunting" and
>"Hunting" was already one of
>the definitions of "take" in
>the CFR. And, the New
>Poaching Law that all hunters
>were burdened with, wasnt even
>passed by elected Officials...it was
>passed by Cops!
>
>NVBighorn,as I remember, Because my case
>would have been cost me
>tens of thousands of dollars
>to take to trial and
>would have involved dragging my
>hunter into Court. I opted
>to resolve it my case
>by pleading to a charge
>of trespassing. Trespassing on public
>Land that was open to
>the public. Make sense of
>it if you can....

maybe in your eyes trammer. its funny to me that POACHING always comes up when your name is mentioned or even on a thread you start a pissing match on
 
We thought that it was legal and were aware that the Buffalo hunters were doing it. We also made a call to the National Park. I was confused by the answers because the first person I spoke with could see no problem with it. The second person (who was a Ranger) discouraged it but stopped short of saying that there was any legal reason for not crossing the park. After he discouraged it, I asked him to "site the statute" that would be a basis for it being illegal and he was unable to do it. I later learned (after being charged) that the legal basis for it was in a document called The Compendium for the Park: meaning the Grand Pubas for the park had discussed and resolved to allow Buffalo Hunters Access but had not discussed or resolved to allow other hunters access through the Park. I understand that the Supreme Court has since ruled on the matter and ruled it was legal. The other issue with the park was that they wanted a Commercial Hunting and Outfitting Permit from any guide or Outfitter who wanted to cross the Park even though hunting was not even allowed in the Park.Round and Round. To this day I do not know if it is Legal for sheep hunters to cross the park but I do know as a Buffalo hunter just this last year I was welcomed to enter, park in, carry a firearm though the Park and that they had made a special Buffalo Hunters access. I also know they had a special place for me to go as Sheep Hunter if I did any one of those things. Federal Prison.
 
There are the llamas, less than a year ago, I am doing in Capital Reef, in 2013 the same thing I was doing a few years earlier that fetched a "poaching" charge then. I got my Buff and finished taking all 10 of the Big Game animals of Utah in Utah...still cant make a bit of sense outa the Law.
 
I guess that's the difference, my buddies had written permission from the rangers in their pockets. Not tryin to b condescending but maybe others will see the difference and avoid that ticket.
 

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