Bush Legacy

T

TFinalshot

Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-08 AT 07:45AM (MST)[p]forget it. . . the data would not post properly, sorry for setting you guys up for some excitement then letting you down like this.
 
I'm not really sure what that means, but if you desire to see the FACTS, go here, and it's the first story under "press release" it's called, "The Legacy of George W Bush's Presidency"

It's just a table that shows what things were before Bush and how things now are. . .

If youre inclined go take a look, remember, all the data is cited and sourced with hotlinks. . .



http://www.dems.gov/index.asp?Type=B_PR&SEC=
 
first to post what?

I heard on a radio show this weekend some shocking stats and followed up and found them on the www, so i posted a link to the data.

It's mostly Bush Administration (federal) numbers, here's the list of sources for the data:

1 Bureau of Economic Analysis
2 Department of Treasury
3 Congressional Budget Office
4 Bureau of Labor Statistics
5 United States Census Bureau
6 United States Census Bureau
7 Kaiser Study of Employer Health Care Benefits
8 United States Census Bureau
9 Energy Information Administration
10 Higher Education Coordinating Board of Washington State
11 Bureau of Economic Analysis
12 Insurance Information Institute
13 United States Census Bureau
14 OANDA.com: The Currency Website
15 Speaker of the House Fact Sheet, 11/29/07
16 Energy Information Administration
17 Testimony of Andrew Kohut; President, Pew Research Center; 3/17/07
 
I think we've covered this already, NOTHING is Bush's fault. it's all Clinton's fault, and if Hillary gets elected everything that's wrong on inauguration day will be her fault.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-08 AT 10:43AM (MST)[p]T,

While the legacy of GWB is no doubt going to be tarnished there are some things overlooked in those numbers.

-The Census Bureau keeps a running total of the U.S. population. To find out the projected population for this very second, visit the U.S. PopClock Projection.

On December 5, 2001, the population was estimated to be 285,669,915.

-According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, the resident population of the United States, projected to 01/29/08 at 17:07 GMT (EST+5) is
303,330,769

So there are another 17+million people here. Want to guess where most of them came from what what their economic status was? Those 17 million dilute the comparison.

Also was there any big, world changing event that took place after Jan. of 2001 that greatly affected our economy?

The uninsured numbers also includes anywhere from 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens.

While not to say the GWB has been a great President many, many of those stats the President has NO control over.

The Republicans could have said the exact same thing going from the Reagan/Bush era into the Clinton era.

There are lies, damn lies and then statistics. There is also the problem of comparing a pre and post 9/11 America. There has been a different mindset since that event.

GWB legacy most likely will not be a glowing era in our nations history but then again neither was WJC's, or George seniors.

Nemont
 
Nemont, I did not post this an editorial or my position. However, the numbers are factual, they come from GWB's own people. They are what they are, but youre right there are many many excuses, and I'm sure you could come up with a pile more given a little more time.

So, are you happy with the numbers, or are you satisfied, would you reelect GWB on those numbers?
 
>I think we've covered this already,
>NOTHING is Bush's fault. it's
>all Clinton's fault, and if
>Hillary gets elected everything that's
>wrong on inauguration day will
>be her fault.

Hasn't the anti Bush opposition already set the stage for the next President to bear the brunt of anything his or her predecessor did?

I have no problem blaming Bush for some of the stupid things he did. The problem is that Clinton could never be blamed for anything either. To hear most anti Bush people talk, Clinton did everything right during his presidency and that all the problems started January 21, 2001 when GWB was sworn in.

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-08 AT 10:41AM (MST)[p]T,

I personally am ready to be rid of GWB. I am sick of seeing him on the news and hearing him speak. He sounds like a broken record to me.

All I am saying is that if you actually go look at the numbers from the sources quoted there are alot of ommissions and selective piece of factual information that are not used.

If you just believe Bush is bad and the Democrats are great then what was posted will make you happy. If one believes, as I do, that there is not a dime's worth of difference between the parties then it is all kind of depressing.

I do not believe that any candidate currently running will right the ship because all are invested in the politics of divisiveness and personal attack. Not until the American people wake up and retake this country will anything change, and there are not enough Americans that care about it, IMO. Most are too wrapped up in making sure they can afford their next skinny, Mocha sugar free double shot frappiciano.

Nemont
 
"So, are you happy with the numbers, or are you satisfied, would you reelect GWB on those numbers?"

T, given the current lot of candidates running I would vote Bush a third time in a heart beat.

Do you see any candidate that is going to do a better job than Bush did? If so why?







�Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.�
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-08 AT 10:54AM (MST)[p]O2, I dont see republican candidate that I like, that said if there was a monkey I'd put my thumb print next to his picture before I'd vote for GWB. . .
 
GWB isn't running again so I don't know that it matters whether one would vote for him or not. I just hope this election isn't a decision to vote for the lesser of two evils. I am done settling for a candidate.

I don't see any Republican out there that event gets me remotely interested and of the Democrats none have the make up to do what has to be done.

I will write in a vote before I settle for someone I don't believe in again.

Nemont
 
it matters if after you read the data you still think the guy is the bomb. I would expect people who read the data would have to seriously consider the facts. My questions was meant to have people tell us, as the post suggests, if they would still vote for Bush even though he's put the Nation is a ditch. . . The numbers may not tell the whole story, but they are very important indicators of the heath of the nation, to dismiss this would be illogical. . .

Couple more facts,

Home ownership is lower that at any time since 1964

405,000 houses foreclosed in 2007 up %75 percent from 2006, and the highest in modern history. . .

Earmarks are a joke, they are less than 1/10th of 1% of the spending, while they are mostly bad for us, they are not worth the discussion (in fact, even if you eliminate the earmarks you do not change for one second or affect one penny of spending) when GW continues to ignore SS, healthcare, building bigger government, the war supplemental that by the way also do NOT get debated. . . and so on. . .

An earmark is NOT additional spending, it is not in the appropriations bill, it is specific language in a bill that directs spending but it does not appropriate more. . . So, even if the feds dont spend money on earmarks, the money will still be spent, period. . .

So, it's total red herring and a very stupid waist of congresses time when compared to all the real spending problems we as a country face.

So, lets hear from all you guys that have actually put time into developing a federal budget or working on appropriations. . .
 
T

So it's all Bush's fault. Congress has no duty or responsibility?

"The President Submits a Proposed Budget to Congress

Following the procedure required by the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974, the President presents a proposed budget for the coming Fiscal Year to Congress on or before the first Monday in February.

Based on the input of the Federal Agencies, the President's budget projects estimated spending, revenue, and borrowing levels broken down by functional categories for the coming fiscal year to start October 1.

The President's budget serves as a "starting point" for the Congress to consider. Congress is under no obligation to adopt all or any of the President's budget and often makes significant changes. However, since the President must ultimately approve all future bills they propose, Congress is often reluctant to completely ignore the priorities of the President's budget."

T there is plenty of blame to go around.


Ransom
 
You are right Nemont but it is trendy to bash Bush.............



�Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.�
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
Thanks for the civics lesson, and yes that is how it works, but the book explanation forgets to include one very important factor - POLITICS!!!

if you dont think the buck stops with the president, than you dont care who becomes the next one. . .

good day. . .
 
T

You do need a civics lesson. There is power sharing between the three branches of government. More cut and paste as you are so much inclined to like.

"
The federal government of the United States is the United States governmental body that governs individual states established by the Constitution. The federal government has three branches: the legislative, executive, and judicial. Through a system of separation of powers or "checks and balances," each of these branches has some authority to act on its own, some authority to regulate the other two branches, and has some of its own authority, in turn, regulated by the other branches. In addition, the powers of the federal government as a whole are limited by the Constitution, which leaves a great deal of authority to the individual states."

Do you really think a president is all powerful? Do you really think they should be?
 
That concludes our Civic 101A class. Any questions?

I have a question! If the GAO overseas the executive branch why is it we still don't know who attended the Energy Task Force meeting with Cheney.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in unprecedented move, the GAO was going to sue the administration for non-compliance to release information, but then decided it would be too costly and rolled over. Isn't that a breakdown in checks and balances?

Love the class, will be there be any homework assignments tonight. :)

BTW, I'll put in a good word at the next shareholders meeting "Ransom".
 
FTW

The only person that I know for sure who wasn't at the Task Force meeting was me. If I was there I'd release all documents.
Maybe it's all really Cheney's fault and W is just a figure head.
Homework tonight shall be designing a plan on reducing the 48 trillion dollars in personal debt.
Now it's easy to see how the stiffs in Washington have such terrible spending habits, they leave private life with them in tow.


Ransom
 
Ransom, your replies are like a guy citing the bible but never having been to church and who may not even believe in the God.
 
FTW

I don't even think we are really in disagreement. I was simply pointing out that there is plenty of blame to go around. Search my past posts to see where I stand, somewhere in the middle on Bush.
More homework. Find out how much in Federal Bonds a person would have to buy to out pace the individuals share of National Debt. Then calculate how that would be affected by every 100,000 individuals buying the appropriate dollar amount of bonds as to how much it would affect the current rate of increase of debt. Please list projections based on 1/10 of a point increments in interest rates. Before reporting please adjust for inflation. It would be nice to have this by chat room time. Cut and paste is not ecceptable.


Your Friend

Ransom
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-08 AT 04:29PM (MST)[p]Since we're all capitolist why not let money decide Bush's legacy? Bill Clinton has made 40 million speaking since leaving office, though I question his legacy he still pulls in the dough you can't deny it, so did Regan. who is going to hire Bush and what will his fees be? that's the judgment on a presidents worth to the people , I'm guessing a kids birthday clown will demand a higher fee than a Bush speech.
 
Legacies are like opinions and defined differently per individual.

For me:

Nixon: Started the EPA, Trade with China, Space Programs

Ford: Ended the war, unified the country

Carter: Started after leaving office Habitat for Humanity

Reagan: Instilled nationalism, financially busted out the USSR

Bush Sr: Great Int'l statesman, Gulf war 1

Clinton: Strong economy, lowered crime, pro cyber-economy

Bush: Invasion of Afghanistan, Deposing Saddam, with a year to go we will have to see.

I don't include the negative aspects to legacies of which there have been many with each president.
 
Ransom I'm just getting to where I can type with two fingers sometimes, I'm not really chat room material.
 
Perhaps it's the Democrats fault?

If the dems ha dproduced a real canidate that America wanted or if the dems had shown up in full force in 2004 we would all have been saved from Bush....right?

I can't believe Hillary Clinton is the best the dems can do this time. If you are going to post stats like that T then at least give us some hope by supplying a real canidate.

Guess what the stats will look like under Pillary.

"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-08 AT 07:52AM (MST)[p]Hey AA, the interesting thing is this:

1. the republican party is dead, no one disputes that
2. we might just find out what those stats look like, and i'd be surprised if there's a human on this planet that can turn around what Bush and 6 years of "neo-con" rule has done to our nation.

But like I said, we might just find out how much damage she can do. There wont be a republican in the white house so we never will know what they could have done. . .
 
"2. we might just find out what those stats look like, and i'd be surprised if there's a human on this planet that can turn around what Bush and 6 years of "neo-con" rule has done to our nation."

T, come on, that's a bit over the top. Even for a died in the wool doom and gloomer like your self. good grief.

So lets see here T.
Global Warming the sky is falling
Big oil drilling in ANWR the sky is falling
Republicans ruined the USA in 6 years the sky is falling
Too many trees being cut down the sky is falling
Mortgage crisis the sky is falling
Big corporations are taking over the world the sky is falling
The Chineese own the USA the sky is falling
Things are going great in Iraq the sky is falling
We have not cuaght Bin Laden the sky is falling
All of the EU hates America the sky is falling
The UN is the be all end all the sky is falling
Both political parties suck and the sky is falling

How do you even bear to get out of bed in the morning T




?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
call it what you will, I'm no doom and gloomer, in fact I live every day to the fullest, therefore wake up ready to take on the world. On the other hand, you can call it doom and gloom, but again, most mentally capable, sane people, given the true facts would say your view of doom and gloom pails in comparison to the Apocalypse.

Now go take on the day. . .
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-08 AT 09:24AM (MST)[p]I didn't read every post on here, so I write this at risk of repeating someone else's comments. I apologize if I'm doing so.

While I'm a proud conservative and a republican, I am very disturbed at the state of our political system, ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. I think we've come to a point where politicians, and this applies to a large majority of them, worry more about what is in their own best interests first, their party second, their district third and our country last. I truly think that many of them worry less about what is best for our country than what is best for them and how they can use it to advantage.

We focus on what is good or bad about a presidential administration, and largely ignore the bad things that go on at the legislative level, and there is much bad that goes on under the dome on Capitol Hill. I think we've sunk to a level where defeating the other party is more important to so many people, than worrying about what is best, or what is right. I think that both parties would compromise the best interests of this country, if it could give them a political victory that they can leverage for their own benefit.

I think that the problems in our congress make anything in the White House pale in comparison, but that most people don't focus on that aspect. THAT is dangerous, I think. While I hope that Mitt Romney wins the republican nomination and presidential election, I think that the damage the next presidential administration can do is far less than the damage our congress WILL DO during the term.

I think our founding fathers would roll over in their graves if they could know how this country is being run today. Actually, I wish that they could return from the dead to set things straight.

Perhaps I'm alone in this view, but I hope I'm not. What do some of the rest of you think? I'm particularly interested in hearing Tfinal's opinion.
 
I'm not sure if you're blaming this on congress or the democrats in congress? remember most of our problems started before the dems took the slim majority a year ago. the six years prior it was Bush & buddies all the way, so even if you're blaming congress you're blaming republican leadership.

I do agree winning is all that matters to both parties these days, but again the divisive ways and attitude of Bush can't be overlooked in getting us here. revenge is what it's all about now, and the dems are in a place to get it.
 
> I do agree winning is
>all that matters to both
>parties these days, but again
>the divisive ways and attitude
>of Bush can't be overlooked
>in getting us here. revenge
>is what it's all about
>now, and the dems are
>in a place to get
>it.

Her in lies the problem. Dude takes a stand to get revenge instead of working together. Genius.

I wish we could go back to solid conservative principles. That is what made this country great, not liberal principals that are dragging us down now.

CAelknuts I agree with you. Well said.




?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
CAelknuts hit the nail on the head with his review of what is wrong with our politicians in Congress. Dude those majority of Democrats in Congress have to accept their share of the blame. How loud did they yell that if given the majority they would turn things around that "Bush" and the GOP had screwed up during the past 6 years. Do you remember House Speaker Perlosi bragging to high heaven that things would change now that she was the house speaker and her Democrat party was the majority party.
She was right, oh so very right that things have changed, if you choose to belive their bull crap. Bush is at 31% in favor with the voters, Congress has shunk down to 18% with the voters in the latest polls. Darn!!! does that mean that Bush is almost twice over in favor with the voters as Congress is. I guess Bush must have stolen those ratings, or he fixed the polls.
You know I agree that Bush and the GOP has made their share of mistakes and bad decisions, but it is very self evident that the Democrats are just full of bull crap and hot air and have no intention of delivering their promise of a better change.

RELH
 
H'dude, to answer your question directly, I am talking about ALL of the house or representatives and senate. BOTH parties. I think too many legislators have their own short term personal interest in mind, and damn the country if it doesn't meet their own selfish interests.

I think the Republican legislators are largely a bunch of wimps with not enough pilotes, and I think the Democrats are misguided in their hatred of Bush before anything else. I think that Harry Reid and Nacy Pelosi are both more concerned with defeating Bush than doing anything that is right or wrong. Finally, I don't think it is healthy for California to have both of their U.S. Senators and the Speaker of the House all hail from the same CITY, San Francisco. Sheesh, can't we at least get someone from Southern CA or another part of northern CA, regardless of which party they are a member of?

Neither party is doing a good job, in my opinion, and we'd all probably be better off if more than 50% of the legislators from each party were thrown out of office in this election.

What do you think, 'dude?
 
RELH if you'd look at the latest poll congress has the same dismal rating as Bush, BUT the republican congressional approval is 26% and the dems is 31%. while both of those numbers are awful the truth is the republicans are worse, there goes your theory.

CAelknuts I'm not going to defend either party they're both self centered idiots , but the fact is we have a nation as deeply divided as anyone alive today has ever seen, nearly twice as deep in debt as it was 8 years ago, an economy even Greenspan says will go into a recession and a war that most of us know was a mistake and we don't know when it will end. I see no way when after 6 years out of the last 7 were under full republican control to not say the republicans are the most incompetent of the incompetent losers in DC. like it or not we saw the dems take back the house and senate and we'll see them take the whitehouse, my guess is the dems will have the rope they need to hang themselves before the next election. lets hope they can fix things and get us all pulling in the same direction.
 
You seem to ignore the fact that it takes two to Tango, or in this case, have a great divide.

Yeah, the Reps had a majority in congress, a very slight majority. They're terrible at governing with a slight majority, and don't do very well with a large majority either. You seem to ignore the fact that the dems haven't shown any interest in cooperting about much of anything, and have been significant in creating much of the division that exists. IT TOOK TWO SIDES TO SCREW IT UP AS BAD AS IT IS. Both parties are to blame.

At some point, you guys need to quit blaming Bush for everything, as any thinking man (and I do believe that both of you are capable of considered thought if you care to do it) realizes that he wasn't alone in what has gone wrong. What matters more is what we're going to do going forward, than in griping about what has happened so far.
 
I could do that, tony, but in some respects I think he's dumb like a fox. Somewhat misunderestimacated.

I do think Pelosi is pretty dumb, though!
 
Pelosi is a bit of a dumb dumb, but she's a chick with big hooters so she gets a pass. . .

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
OK, T, we find common ground! Italian women get a pass! At least the good looking ones, and aren't all Italian women good looking?
 
Dude;

The poll results I gave was the numbers given out by ABC news just prior to Bush's speech. It was not Fox news that you say are slanted towards the right.

RELH
 
You lefties said the exact same thing about Reagan and Bush Sr.
"He's stupid"
Give me a break. Is that best you can come up with? You sound like a bunch of 3rd graders for crying out loud. When the left can't win in the areana of ideas, morality, safety, taxes they resort to the "He is an idiot" card. Good one.



?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
It doesn't reall matter they're all low, the point is the republican congress has a lower approval than the dem congress. so while they all suck the short comings can't just be pushed off on the dems.
 

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