Hiker of the Woods
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Here is some good information I found on another hunting forum.
?If you put pee in the bucks scrape you are submiting to him if you put buck urine .If you make one off to the side about 10 yards away you are telling that buck you are not submitting to him that you are showing that you are wanting to challenge him . That is what you want to do and So when you put Buck urine in your mock scrape you want to do it early morning while its dark and then When you get out of your Stand in the evening late. . By doing this you are telling the buck that you (the buck ) are Freshing up your scrape at those hours so it keeps him from hanging around while or atleast checking the scrape during the middle of the day when your not hunting. If you do it early or late you have a much better chance that the buck will show up in the morning to see who is challenging him in his area. . I hope this helps and good luck. It works i have done it for years and Killed many buck checking my mock scrape. Dont forget to put some buck uring on the over hanging branch. If you have seen a buck licking a over hanging branch this is because when they pee on there Tarsal glands they will lick them to get the scent on there mouth and will lick the over hanging branch to put that same scent on it .? boarman1
Stonycreek Whitetails
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 139
Mock Scrapes...
?This is a good topic guys and a topic that discusses the very foundation of scent marking and communications of the buck.
As far as "scientific data" well lets just say we are not lab coat guys but rather roll up the "camo sleeves" and try it ourselves kind of guys.
I don't know if any of you remember a website we built several years ago called Deer101.com? We had live streaming video from an undisclosed location that was available on the site 24 hours a day. We utilized infrared technology that would allow us and the audience to view the deer activity even in the total darkness of night. It was during these observations where the behavior of the buck making a scrape, urinating in it, then the licking urine from his tarsals, chewing the licking branch and then ultimately rubbing his forehead and preorbitals on that branch.
At first this behavior went virtually unnoticed but then we realized what was actually taking place. As the buck urinated on his tarsals the urine would run down his legs, puddle under his feet and as he would continue to move his feet while rubbing his tarsals he was actually swishing his feet in the puddle of urine - hence the purpose of making scent trails. Just as you or I jumping out of the shower before drying off, as the buck/doe walks off after performing a rub urination the urine drips off and makes a scent trail - just as we leave a water trail when we jump out of the shower and walk to the other side of the bathroom to get a towel. This is why I feel utilizing fresh urine to make scent trails is so important. It is natural occurrence that is the basis to why I believe a buck often runs with his nose close to the ground. He is basically bird-dogging a trail of urine from a doe or other buck.
Lets take it a step further and look at what happens when a buck makes his scrape. After the buck urinates in his scrape he often times will lick the urine from his tarsals and the inside of his legs. Then he goes and chews/licks on the licking branch - basically transferring the urine from his legs/tarsals/mouth to the branch. We have all seen trail cam pics of buck rubbing their forehead and preorbital glands on the licking branch but, I feel there is more to it then just "working the licking branch". I feel it is a another way for a buck to use his urine to scent mark the rubs he makes. After all, when was the last time you seen a buck **** his leg and "pee" on a tree?
One other thing I would like to point out concerning placing buck urine in a natural scrape. Boarman1 is right on in his advice regarding "submission" and here is why I feel this way. All year long I am able to observe the hierarchy of the deer we raise. It is clearly evident who the boss is, who wants to be boss and who is submissive - as far as the buck are concerned. I don't know why it is, but every year the dominant buck will make a scrape by the watering trough. The buck that have submitted all year long will also "work that scrape" and urinate in it as well. However, the #2 dominant buck, the buck that has always stood his ground and challenged the #1 dominant buck, would walk up to the scrape, smell it and then walk off about 15-25 yards and make his own scrape - a challenging scrape, if you will. Then he would walk several yards and aggressively begin to rub his antlers on the fence posts - a rub!!
It didn't dawn on me at first what was actually taking place until one day I was in the woods hunting and I notice an area with 2-3 scrapes and several rubs. I realized at that moment "the sign" or "message" the buck were telling each other. This was an area where two dominant buck are challenging each other, just as the area by the watering trough at my facility.
I started paying closer attention to the buck at our facility and would watch the submissive buck continually urinate in both scrapes made by the dominant buck but have never witnessed either of dominant buck urinate in the others scrape. With this, I strongly feel that when we place buck urine in a natural scrape we are actually submitting rather than challenging. Why would a dominant buck concern himself or get excited about another buck that has submitted to him? Just something to think about..
We are continuing to observe, learn and share the findings on the behaviors of the buck. Hopefully this information will help someone else realize what is taking place, at least what I think is taking place, in those pocket areas of the woods where several scrapes and rubs are located. I think we have a long way to go in order to fully understand the whitetail deer, but it sure is fun and exciting trying to figure it all out.
Good luck and happy hunting,
Stony?
Cheers,
Adam Raymond
?If you put pee in the bucks scrape you are submiting to him if you put buck urine .If you make one off to the side about 10 yards away you are telling that buck you are not submitting to him that you are showing that you are wanting to challenge him . That is what you want to do and So when you put Buck urine in your mock scrape you want to do it early morning while its dark and then When you get out of your Stand in the evening late. . By doing this you are telling the buck that you (the buck ) are Freshing up your scrape at those hours so it keeps him from hanging around while or atleast checking the scrape during the middle of the day when your not hunting. If you do it early or late you have a much better chance that the buck will show up in the morning to see who is challenging him in his area. . I hope this helps and good luck. It works i have done it for years and Killed many buck checking my mock scrape. Dont forget to put some buck uring on the over hanging branch. If you have seen a buck licking a over hanging branch this is because when they pee on there Tarsal glands they will lick them to get the scent on there mouth and will lick the over hanging branch to put that same scent on it .? boarman1
Stonycreek Whitetails
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 139
Mock Scrapes...
?This is a good topic guys and a topic that discusses the very foundation of scent marking and communications of the buck.
As far as "scientific data" well lets just say we are not lab coat guys but rather roll up the "camo sleeves" and try it ourselves kind of guys.
I don't know if any of you remember a website we built several years ago called Deer101.com? We had live streaming video from an undisclosed location that was available on the site 24 hours a day. We utilized infrared technology that would allow us and the audience to view the deer activity even in the total darkness of night. It was during these observations where the behavior of the buck making a scrape, urinating in it, then the licking urine from his tarsals, chewing the licking branch and then ultimately rubbing his forehead and preorbitals on that branch.
At first this behavior went virtually unnoticed but then we realized what was actually taking place. As the buck urinated on his tarsals the urine would run down his legs, puddle under his feet and as he would continue to move his feet while rubbing his tarsals he was actually swishing his feet in the puddle of urine - hence the purpose of making scent trails. Just as you or I jumping out of the shower before drying off, as the buck/doe walks off after performing a rub urination the urine drips off and makes a scent trail - just as we leave a water trail when we jump out of the shower and walk to the other side of the bathroom to get a towel. This is why I feel utilizing fresh urine to make scent trails is so important. It is natural occurrence that is the basis to why I believe a buck often runs with his nose close to the ground. He is basically bird-dogging a trail of urine from a doe or other buck.
Lets take it a step further and look at what happens when a buck makes his scrape. After the buck urinates in his scrape he often times will lick the urine from his tarsals and the inside of his legs. Then he goes and chews/licks on the licking branch - basically transferring the urine from his legs/tarsals/mouth to the branch. We have all seen trail cam pics of buck rubbing their forehead and preorbital glands on the licking branch but, I feel there is more to it then just "working the licking branch". I feel it is a another way for a buck to use his urine to scent mark the rubs he makes. After all, when was the last time you seen a buck **** his leg and "pee" on a tree?
One other thing I would like to point out concerning placing buck urine in a natural scrape. Boarman1 is right on in his advice regarding "submission" and here is why I feel this way. All year long I am able to observe the hierarchy of the deer we raise. It is clearly evident who the boss is, who wants to be boss and who is submissive - as far as the buck are concerned. I don't know why it is, but every year the dominant buck will make a scrape by the watering trough. The buck that have submitted all year long will also "work that scrape" and urinate in it as well. However, the #2 dominant buck, the buck that has always stood his ground and challenged the #1 dominant buck, would walk up to the scrape, smell it and then walk off about 15-25 yards and make his own scrape - a challenging scrape, if you will. Then he would walk several yards and aggressively begin to rub his antlers on the fence posts - a rub!!
It didn't dawn on me at first what was actually taking place until one day I was in the woods hunting and I notice an area with 2-3 scrapes and several rubs. I realized at that moment "the sign" or "message" the buck were telling each other. This was an area where two dominant buck are challenging each other, just as the area by the watering trough at my facility.
I started paying closer attention to the buck at our facility and would watch the submissive buck continually urinate in both scrapes made by the dominant buck but have never witnessed either of dominant buck urinate in the others scrape. With this, I strongly feel that when we place buck urine in a natural scrape we are actually submitting rather than challenging. Why would a dominant buck concern himself or get excited about another buck that has submitted to him? Just something to think about..
We are continuing to observe, learn and share the findings on the behaviors of the buck. Hopefully this information will help someone else realize what is taking place, at least what I think is taking place, in those pocket areas of the woods where several scrapes and rubs are located. I think we have a long way to go in order to fully understand the whitetail deer, but it sure is fun and exciting trying to figure it all out.
Good luck and happy hunting,
Stony?
Cheers,
Adam Raymond
