BS there is no Lions in Utah

cantkillathing

cantkillathing

Very Active Member
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1,486
Hell I went out this morning just for fun with friends that have dogs and we cutt a track in the first 1/2 hour out. Let three dogs out and they went off. On our way to get closer to the dogs low and behold we cut another track, We let 3 dogs off on that.

Well the first 3 dogs were watching them on GPS and one split off because he heard the next 3 dogs and took off with them. Well so now there is 2 dogs across a canyon ledged up we can see them but no lion so we take off on foot over to the 2 dogs and when we get there we here the lion hissing away in a little cave. We got some pics and pulled the dogs off.

Went back to the truck and had to go locate the other 4 dogs, 2 miles later there they are with another lion in the tree. so in a 2 hour period caught 2 lions, and we almost set off on another track we cutt but I had to get back.

Dont let people fool you there are plenty of lions out and about. I wish I had a valid tag to fill.

I will try and get some cool video and pics up from the event probably wont be today, maybe tomorrow.
 
i can't believe UT won't let you buy an over the counter lion tag like NV. Really not that many people kill a lion unless they are specificly going after them with dogs and such.

If the deer herds are as bad as all you guys say then that should be a no brainer to them, and you would think that UT would do that just as a money generator.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-12 AT 04:19PM (MST)[p]You must work for the dwr? Basing the states lion population on one outing....ha ha. I spent the last 2 days looking for lion tracks and all I found up every canyon is deer/elk, but I still think we could use some more to feed all these lions. Sounds like you had a fun day. Ship some of them cats over this way :)
 
Here's another utah cat for ya !!
4884dscn0394.jpg
 
Holy $hit! There's THREE lions in Utah???? Somebody ought to start auctioning or raffling a bunch of tags for them! Maybe hold a convention!

:)


So these two lions caught so close together... any idea how old they were?
 
I am not an expert when sizing up a lion, but the 2 guys I was with are known to have a good idea since they do it a lot, but they stated they were both mature females. Something to do with yellow teeth versus white. I dont know anything about how to tell. Both tracks were pretty close to being the same size. something to do with the strides they make as well. who knows, Like I said I know nothing about them.

When we started on the first track it was probably 4 miles from the second lion, but ended up treeing both pretty close to each other.

It was a fun morning though, it was a rush for sure, I could get addicted to that in a hurry. Having those things hiss, and growl, my buddy has footage of the lion in the tree with me 5 feet from the thing. Ill tell you those things have some evil in the eyes like they want to jump down and tear you up.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-12 AT 07:37PM (MST)[p]So?

They're so thick they're traveling in Packs?:D


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Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Judast! My buddies 12 year old boy has a tag and we are having the worst luck even cutting tracks. Where are you guys? We are up in Cache Valley.
 
Well smitty!

You're gonna have to cross a few region Borders to get to where cant is seeing them!:D


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Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Smitty
That is for the most part how the state of Utah is. That is why harvest objective quotas are never filled. There must be however a couple areas they hang out
 
Speaking of BS, here's a couple of observations:

1). "No lions in Utah?" Nobody is making that argument, that is a logically dishonest straw man tactic you invented.

2). Is the cougar population increasing or decreasing in the state of Utah?? DWR data clearly indicates that cougar populations have been on decline in recent years.

3). Are there too many lions in Utah?? This is strictly an opinion question to which there is no right or wrong answer....only different views depending on each individual's perpective. One shouldn't confuse opinions with facts.

4). Two lions in close proximity therefore there are too many cougar in the state of Utah?? That's funny. That's like me observing two or more deer on the same hillside and concluding that therefore there are too many deer in Utah. What we are doing with arguments like this, is taking an particular incident and drawing a universal conclusion. From a logical standpoint, we are on shaky ground.
 
Dare I say it?? The Cache is one of the few areas in Utah where lion populations seem to be up from what they were 5 years ago. That's not to say they are abundant, but retreating from the years of harvest objective tags back to limited entry has left a few more cougar in the area.

Smitty, you're not one of those Paradise Smith's are you?? If you are, I can't pass along any tips. ;-)
 
Dammit KevinD, there you go again making sense of what is probably THE most emotionally charged issue in the hunting world. You should know better than to use logic on the lion issue. ;-) My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with facts.

Here is obvious evidence of at LEAST three lions in the state of Utah. Soon someone will point out the "lions eat 52 deer each year" "factoid" and then we're off to the races.
 
Well, if there are 3 lions in Utah and they kill an average of 1 deer a week, those 3 lions just killed 156 deer. That is 156 deer that we wont ever see and...........

Sorry, couldnt resist.
 
you guys are as bad as us deer hunters, first off I never said there was too many, I simply stated that it is BS that there is no lions in utah, because like you guys have posted is that you cannot find them and therefor you are trying to imply that there is very few lions in utah.
 
Not implying at all. There are areas that very few lions exist on.
As far as the one deer a week. Lions diet is not venison alone, they eat elk, bobcats, rabbits, porcupines, beaver, and anything else they want to. Have even found where a lion killed and ate a coyote. So that theory is false as well.

There are multiple units that are harvest objective areas where the dwr figures the lion population is too high. Buy a tag and go hunt one of these units and tell me what you think. The only areas that there are a few are where its limited entry because fewer people are hunting them.
 
OK ,, lets just sick to the actual FACTS here about mountain lions..
It is, and has been 100% mandatory reporting on lions for 20+ years.
The DWR has solid numbers on mountain lions,,,per this annual report.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/cougar/pdf/10_ ... report.pdf

Mountain lion harvest + morality peaked in 1997, @ 666 cats..
over the next 2 years the H/M dropped to 387 in 1999...
This was specific to Harvest objective hunting taking a huge toll.

The H/M numbers slightly increased over the next few years to 2004,
That year the harvest + mortality was 523 mountain lions..

Since that time, HO hunting has been increased every year, 3/4 of
the state is now open to some type of HO hunting for lions.
Over the counter, unlimited permits available.

From 2004 to 2010 the harvest and mortality numbers hovered in the 300's.
2010/11 was 304 cats............

SO FAR 2011/12, as of today stands at 165 cats HM, state wide total....
There will be a bump up in harvest when split season opens to ho hunting
March 5th, ........But I seriously doubt we will see the numbers brake out
of the 200s for TOTAL cats killed for 2012...........

Note: The harvest + mortality numbers include all hunting + all other mortality..
And these HM numbers continue to drop despite more opportunity......

you guys that say you believe in 'trends',,,,,,Look at these #'s in the report...
+ average age of lions has constantly dropped as well........Just say'in..


4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
cantkillathing, congrats on catching a lion, it is a very fun and very hard hunt. I spent this weekend out hunting but didn't find a track. I need you to come and hunt with me and bring your good luck with you.
 
I bought me a lion tag on a HO, and now I am ready to kill a lion. But now that I have a tag we will not find a thing. My seven days of waiting is up. When we were out Yesterday I knew we would catch something because I was on my 6th day of waiting period.
So I am betting my luck is out now.
 
Im nit in favor of cats but.....

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-12 AT 01:17PM (MST)[p]Utards whining about deer herds never mention these things: They own guns like Rem 300 ultras with fancy scopes for those 600 yard shots, trail cams helping them, awesome camo and scent lok clothing, GPS units so fear of getting lost is not there and they can hunt any rugged unit and find their way out. Lets add on way too many people occupying the Wasatch Front, poaching utards and party hunters and guys who shoot their wives LE tags for them. Yeah its all the lions fault.....ok... oh didnt mention the 60 and 70 yard bowhunt shots....
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

oh come on now deermadness, dont you know that bucks dont dictate the herds size, so it doesn't matter that we are killing all the bucks, the herd is down due to the predators killing all the does and fawns.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

So if lions eat more bucks then the herds wont suffer? That would make everyone happy. More deer since they are leaving those does alone and more lions since the need to kill them is not as warranted.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-12 AT 02:39PM (MST)[p]Just saying no matter how far the odds tip in hunters favor due to techonology or other factors they go for it. But predators seem to take all the blame. I saw a video of a bowhunter taking and killing at 80 yards. Rifle at 768 yards dropping the buck. And how much winter grounds are gone due to the zillions of Utahns on the wasatch front. Cars killing scores of deer every week in places like Fairfield by Lehi. I drove that road for 5 years everyday and it was blood red highway with deer carcasses everywhere. Im not starting an argument just observed the losses with my own eyes when I lived there from 1999 thru 2005. Also kids in the Nebo front killing does without their fathers along on their mad ATV trips all over The Salt Creek Drainage. A family in Nephi rumored to poach every year they even got caught once. Hey, I need. Big Muley to brag about on my wall so I will sneak into this or that spot...I wish I would have volunteered to patrol there.. Even saw groups of trail motorcycles chasing herds to get a shot by the Girl Scout Camp.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

You just had great day of huntn and got lucky and found some tracks. Same as gettn lucky and killn a 180 deer. Yet Utah has thousands of 180 deer don't they. Ha
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

two lions in the state'.' is two to many'''''''
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

I think most people, who know much about cats at all, can find a track in a day. Might have to get out of the truck and go walk a little, but they can find a track. Apparently lions are required to cross a main road anytime it snows. If there isn't a track crossing the road on the fresh snow, must not be any lions.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

So Bonepiler?

I take it they hide between the Roads in the Book Cliffs too?

The f'rs even take 5 steps they'll cross a Road in that lower Country!

'A' Track in a Day Huh?

I remember the Day We could easily Tree 3 in a day if you felt up to it!

Oh GAWD!

Let me inform everybody,there were way more Deer back then too,WTF?

Answer it bonepiler!




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Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Bonepiler
Put your boots on and come show me what I apparently dont know about cats. I assure you your not going fo show me a lion track a day hiking in this country.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

You can say what you want but the harvest data tells differently.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

1935lion.jpg


Here is the 2nd lion we treed, havent got the video or other pictures, my buddy had the camera, i was the dumb one that didnt take any camera with me. I will get some cool pictures downloaded.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

You said how good of a time you had. You should get you a few hounds and start doing it yourself. Nothings more satisfying than putting up a lion with some hounds you trained
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-12 AT 10:08PM (MST)[p]Cantkillathing, I didn't know it was Lyle you are hunting with, he is a real good guy and a hard hunter. You are hunting one of the best areas in the state. Hopefully I will make a trip down there in the next few weeks. It bets the heck out of the area I am hunting. If you want I can let you know when we are coming down and you could bring your tent and come and camp with us.

Bonepiler give me a call, maybe we could meet up and you could show me how to find a track. I will take any help I can get.
435-820-0963
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Cantkillathing
Nice picture and congrats on a fun day. The picture shows a subadult lion and if the two tracks were close together was probably its littermate. They are fun to hunt. Wait till you walk up to a 160-170 lb tom. Their eyes can look right through you. Honestly I'm not being a smart "A" I have hunted cats for alot of years, and I feel as frustrated with what has happened to the lion population as most are with the deer population. I know that lowering lion populations is necessary when deer numbers are down, but I'm as passionate about keeping a few of these around as you guys are deer/ by the way I LOVE deer hunting as well.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Saying there are no lions, few lions, or that you cant find one or two tracks a day only reflects your hunting skills.
Why is it houndsmen who can actually hunt have no problem putting a lion up for their clients in one day?
A hunting partner and me have declared war on lions in a HO unit that happens to be our fav deer unit. Catching 11 lions in 8 trips this winter and killing 7 of those lions. (wish we would of had a few more people with tags on hand) Anything that we catch DIES! Except females with cubs. Wish we could kill those too. By next year we hope to rid the entire unit of ALL lions! 3 more friends just bought tags so another trip and a few more dead cats coming soon!
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

I too once captured a lion with "pure evil in his eyes" like you did cantkillathing. Turns out though, he was just passing gas. Fortunately, after that was over, he returned back to normal.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Sure KK let me know when you come down, only if we catch one on the HO side I get to shoot the thing now that my tag is valid.

I think Lyle has some great dogs, I have been out with his dogs with my buddy 2 times. First time was on my bear hunt and we caught a bear, 2 time was monday and we caught 2 lions. So far haven't been skunked with them.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-12 AT 07:48PM (MST)[p] CATMAN, You'll like hunting lions once you get the hang of it.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Cantkill,
I will try to get down there in March. I spend a lot of time down there mostly bear, Elk or Deer hunting. I don't take much time off work to lion hunt. I will let you know if I work it out.

Isay,
I think I talked to you while I was sheep hunting this last year. To say someone isn't a good hunter because he can't find a track every day just isn't right. Every unit and every time out is different. I know Catman and myself do good lion hunting, When we find a track we catch it most the time. I am not the best lion hunter, don't even want to be, Its just something to keep the dogs going good until the bear hunt starts.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

You Hate Lion Huntin NUNYA!

I'd like to see a Lion Cub!



> Saying there are no lions,
>few lions, or that you
>cant find one or two
>tracks a day only reflects
>your hunting skills.
> Why is it houndsmen who
>can actually hunt have no
>problem putting a lion up
>for their clients in one
>day?
> A hunting partner and me
>have declared war on lions
>in a HO unit that
>happens to be our fav
>deer unit. Catching 11 lions
>in 8 trips this winter
>and killing 7 of those
>lions. (wish we would of
>had a few more people
>with tags on hand) Anything
>that we catch DIES! Except
>females with cubs. Wish we
>could kill those too. By
>next year we hope to
>rid the entire unit of
>ALL lions! 3 more friends
>just bought tags so another
>trip and a few more
>dead cats coming soon!




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If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

7 X 52 Huh?

GOOD GAWD The Deer Herd is fixed already!

> Saying there are no lions,
>few lions, or that you
>cant find one or two
>tracks a day only reflects
>your hunting skills.
> Why is it houndsmen who
>can actually hunt have no
>problem putting a lion up
>for their clients in one
>day?
> A hunting partner and me
>have declared war on lions
>in a HO unit that
>happens to be our fav
>deer unit. Catching 11 lions
>in 8 trips this winter
>and killing 7 of those
>lions. (wish we would of
>had a few more people
>with tags on hand) Anything
>that we catch DIES! Except
>females with cubs. Wish we
>could kill those too. By
>next year we hope to
>rid the entire unit of
>ALL lions! 3 more friends
>just bought tags so another
>trip and a few more
>dead cats coming soon!




[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

easy sttm. remember your heart..lion aint worth your health'
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Hey Bess a baby lion is called a cub. Look it up. You cant get away from your puter long enough to see one in the wild so google it. HA HA just giving you ##### Bess!
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

> Hey Bess a baby lion
>is called a cub. Look
>it up. You cant get
>away from your puter long
>enough to see one in
>the wild so google it.
>HA HA just giving you
>##### Bess!
>

I know you are!

Like I said!

I'd like to see a Lion Cub here in the Basin,they'd stretch him to 140 pounds around here!

And He'd surely eat 5 Deer per day!:D




[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

> Saying there are no lions,
>few lions, or that you
>cant find one or two
>tracks a day only reflects
>your hunting skills.
> Why is it houndsmen who
>can actually hunt have no
>problem putting a lion up
>for their clients in one
>day?
> A hunting partner and me
>have declared war on lions
>in a HO unit that
>happens to be our fav
>deer unit. Catching 11 lions
>in 8 trips this winter
>and killing 7 of those
>lions. (wish we would of
>had a few more people
>with tags on hand) Anything
>that we catch DIES! Except
>females with cubs. Wish we
>could kill those too. By
>next year we hope to
>rid the entire unit of
>ALL lions! 3 more friends
>just bought tags so another
>trip and a few more
>dead cats coming soon!


I am calling BS until you post pics of seven lions...
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-12 AT 02:38PM (MST)[p]Here is where the first lion was caught in this hole.
7952lion1.jpg


Was convinced by my friend to take a look, he sure like to put me in harms way.
5530lion2.jpg



1629lion3.jpg


Here is the 2nd lion saying I am out of here.
9255lion4.jpg


2nd lion treed again
7360lion6.jpg



1980lion5.jpg


It was a fun outting cant wait to do this again. I am no expert but both lions look older than subadult lions. Just sayin.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Those are awesome pics cantkillathing. I cut three different lion tracks while looking for sheds last Friday. I thought it was weird since there aren't many lions in Utah.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

I like the Pic of the Kitty back in the crevice!

You shoot one cant?

Or are you hooked & Trophy Huntin?



>LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-12
>AT 02:38?PM (MST)
>
>Here is where the first lion
>was caught in this hole.
>
>
7952lion1.jpg

>
>Was convinced by my friend to
>take a look, he sure
>like to put me in
>harms way.
>
5530lion2.jpg

>
>
>
1629lion3.jpg

>
>Here is the 2nd lion saying
>I am out of here.
>
>
9255lion4.jpg

>
>2nd lion treed again
>
7360lion6.jpg

>
>
>
1980lion5.jpg

>
>It was a fun outting cant
>wait to do this again.
> I am no expert
>but both lions look older
>than subadult lions. Just
>sayin.




[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

havent killed one, havent been back out yet. I hope we can get another snow storm this year and I will try it again.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Hey T!

What's the local Hounders name down your way that has an old Beat up Toyota?


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Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Can't remember his name?

I'll give you a hint though!

He chases Bears during LE Elk Hunts and really Stirrs it up!:D


[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Isn't beat up toyota the ride of all houndsmen, you just described every houndsmen I know.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Lol!

No,not all of them drive Toyotas!

Seems like it was White or Red,can't remember?


[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
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Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Thinking a Flat Bed!

The Truck knows thew back Roads!:D


[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
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Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Lol tikka!

Yup,Charlie!

Don't wanna know anything,I've run in to him a couple times & was always kind of surprised on the kinda hunting Shoes he wears,you ever notice?


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If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Nope never noticed, maybe they are lucky shoes and they get the job done. He sure can tree the animals though. I went a couple times with him on my bear hunt and he and the dogs did good, Just never caught a boar the 3 times we went.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Ya!

He must have some Tough Feet that's all I got to say!

Did I tell you about the time He scattered a 380" Bull?:D


[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

I bet that pissed you off, but blame the DWR for that to allow a bear hunt at the same time. Some people wait 10 years for a bear tag, or more. Maybe atleast on big bull survived and we will have one lucky hunter next year to kill off the last big bull in the state of utah.
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

>Ya!
>
>He must have some Tough Feet
>that's all I got to
>say!
>
>Did I tell you about the
>time He scattered a 380"
>Bull?:D
>
>
>[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
>
>If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM
>TO ME!
>
>
>
>
>Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
>


LMAO!!!!
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Na!

Never made me mad!

When the DWR Overlaps Hunts what you think is gonna Happen?

There's a couple Big Bulls left down there,Hopefully the locals don't kill all the Big ones like they did last year,lol!:D


[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
RE: Im nit in favor of cats but.....

Looks like we might get a storm, if we do, I will hopefully get out and get a lion. Fingers crossed for the storm to hit down here.
 

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