Bowhunting in Utah

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thebuckstopshere

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2008 - Season August 16 - Sept 12 (Statewide) - Nov. 30 (buck extended) - Dec. 15 (Doe Extended).

2009 - Season August 22 (guess) through end of August - pick region - Sept 1 - 18 (guess) statewide - Nov. 30 (buck extended) - Dec. 15 extended doe.


You archers really are picked on - aren't you.
 
The issue that people are having is not with the picking a region. Ya it suck's but we will adapt. The issue is the board voted on the exact opposite of what the public and RAC's wanted and had voted on.
 
Pick up a bow and quit bitchin.

12% of overall harvest. You really should not be jealous. Anyone can pick up a bow and hunt a long time and harvest very little. Seems to me to be a great thing for the deer herd you all cry about wanting to "save". Bring the deer herds back, but don't cut any rifle tags who kill more than 70% of the deer! What a joke!
 
I wouldn't say picked on just as a Dedicated Hunter I will get a Southern permit now instead of a Northern sucks for those Southern hunters that rifle hunt only!!
 
>Pick up a bow and quit
>bitchin.
>
>12% of overall harvest. You
>really should not be jealous.
> Anyone can pick up
>a bow and hunt a
>long time and harvest very
>little. Seems to me
>to be a great thing
>for the deer herd you
>all cry about wanting to
>"save". Bring the deer
>herds back, but don't cut
>any rifle tags who kill
>more than 70% of the
>deer! What a joke!
>

Shouldn't it be:

Pick up a bow and start bitching?

I hunt all three hunts. I just don't think that picking a region is that big of a deal, regardless. It sure could be much worse. Sometimes the best approach isn't to ##### about every change, then people may actually listen when you really do need to #####!
 
++++++++1 buckstop and I killed a buck with a bow last year but the archery hunts are waaaay to long to many deer get killed and not found

---------------------------------------
"you can't fix stupid"
 
Silentstalker - I don't have a dog in this fight. I just think its hard to be taken seriously when you complain about every little change. I read your post in the Gen hunting area, and I agree with much of what you said. I wish more hunters would pick up a bow. Sure is the way to hunt if you want a nice long season and some rut hunting.

As for the DWR situation, maybe the thing to do would be to buy the archery tags, and don't pick the Southern Region. My understanding is this is a "test" to see where all the bowhunters really are hunting.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-08 AT 11:49AM (MST)[p]Completely inaccurate antlerless. All weapon types have close to the same wounding rate, the difference is a very high percentage of non fatal Bow shots actually recover. Bowhunters actually follow up on their shots and don't just move on like a lot of rifle hunters. If it does not drop they must of missed! Go up on the wasatch or manti unit after the spike rifle hunt. It is not uncommon to find several cows and mature bulls laying on their sides with a small hole through their ribs.

The bowhunt is not too long either. In order to entice people out of the most successful of weapon types, you must add incentive to have them switch. The beauty of it is there is no biological reason to shorten it. You guy's are pretty butt hurt over a weapon that kills 12% of the deer overall. Take your rifle hunt blinders off and look at the big picture.

In order to help the deer herd you must not kill them all. We can not put out 97000 rifle tags. Bowhunters do not impact the rifle or muzzleloader hunts in any way. Yet the "dedicated
hunters" muzzy hunters and rifle hunters are constantly in the hills during the bowhunt "scouting".

For guy's who hunt with a bow, you sure don't appear to understand the usefulness of it to increase opportunity and to lessen overall impact on the herds.



*** edit ***

Buck,

you are right, they are "testing" to see where all the hunters migrate too. It is very likely that this mandatory "pick your region" will actually sway archers to pick the southern so they do not "miss out on something". A much better way to fix this according to BOU, UBA, SFW, MDF, and several other groups would be to form a committee to look at possible issues and address them. Find out through a simple survey where hunters are hunting and if there is indeed a problem, FIX IT! Bowhunters are not against changes if they will make a difference. We want the deer herds back as badly as anyone. We will give it all up if it would help the deer. But a radical attack on a great hunt due to the perception of a few?? No biological data to support it?? WTF? I personally do not hunt the south any more. I could care less personally. But when the "system" denies the outcry's of 3/5 RAC's and many who supported it, I think we have a reason the #####! I appreciate the discussion and don't claim to know it all. I am VERY oppinionated though! Have a great day!

Chad
 
If it's just a survey, then buy your southern tag and come and hunt... I think we may be afraid that this "survey" just might prove something...hmmmmm....and yes we may lose some of our southern permits, but atleast we will still have deer to hunt when it's done I would go every other year if it meant better quality... hell 2 forkies versus 1 nice buck, who wouldn't
 
Survey says more dedicated hunters WILL choose Southern permits and with the 9 days to hunt now I guarantee those last 4 days there will be some hogs shot. Deer aren't stupid they know when the hunts over and those extra days added on will do the damage on the Southern unit!!

It is a pain for me because I like to hunt up North during the rifle and muzzy but I will definetly take 9 days off now and camp out on the Southern unit for at least the next 2 years!!

That State wide spike hunt will be interesting on Dutton and other units where they haven't been hunted for YEARS. I think I will take another week off of work and sit on every ridge with the entire family and bust all those morons shooting big bulls.

Big mistakes were made this year and the Southern units will pay for it, BUMMER!!
 
Meew,

The archers are not killing "your" deer down south. Archers kill 12% of the overall harvest. That is very little. Good luck blaming the archers for your bad quality. Simply no evidence to support that. You just invited all of us down. Be ready cause that just might happen!
 
Blah blah blah...doesn't anyone EVER have anything intelligent to say about archery hunting in Utah?? Pick a region, statewide...1 week hunt, 3 months to hunt...doesn't matter!! Bow hunters choose a less primitive weapon hunt for several reasons...the true bow hunters ALWAYS kill a buck every single year period!! If you're unhappy with your own personal results with any weapon maybe you should change something...

~Z~
 
silentstalker, be careful what you wish for...that survey with all you northerners trying to prove a point just might work... yes it might affect me to, but like I said before if it does, 1 tag every other year might be better than what we have now...look at nevada great hunting and yes only every couple of years... yes we may get all the DHers applying also...survey may just make sense...yes the system is broke point proven, but maybe this may prove a point to someone also...I agree the archers don't kill as many deer, but maybe they kill more down here in the south than anyone ever knew, that is what this may prove
 
It is a fact that archers are responsible for a small percentage of the overall buck harvest in Utah (and every other state for that matter) Archers voice is not the magority but the overwhelming minority, so archery hunters can't expect everyone else to understand. The bottom line is archery is a great management tool and the sooner everyone in the state realizes that the better for everyone. More archers equals less buck harvest which equals more deer and bigger deer.
We have a great opportunity for archery hunting in Utah (so us archers should not complain) but rather promote archery to others because we need more (not less) archers and more (not less) archery opportunities to improve our herd.

www.basinarcheryshop.com
 
Meew,

I do not wish for anything! What I am trying to say is the southern unit is not negatively impacted my bowhunters. That is something that is supported by the DWR. They have surveys and data to back that statement. I for one do not hunt the south and have not for a few years. I really have nothing to lose by going to pick a region. The issue to me is that all the groups involved in the RAC process and a very strong majority of the public voiced to keep it and the WB did not listen.

I think it is a sad state of affairs when 1 would wish to hunt only every other year when the reason behind it has no merit. A 12% harvest is neglegible. Hardly worth wasting a thought on. Yet here we are limiting a very worthwhile hunt that impacts the resource the LEAST by a large margin. If you really want to improve "your" herds, you really need to minimize harvest and continue to develope habitat. Allowing 84% of the tags to go to the most successful weapon type is not helping the resource in any way.

If you were at the meeting you would know that I 100% support a survey and study to find out hunter densities in not only the southern region but all regions and all weapon types. Until we figure out where all the pressure is we will be on the ground floor trying to fix the herds. I also completely support any idea with data and biological support that will help our deer herds.

I am sure we can both agree that we need to do something. It is just unfortunate that sticking it to the archers is the top item on the agenda.
 
I have lived in the southern region my whole life and have bow hunted every year possible. I think that the bow hunt needs to be broken into units. get rid of the statewide hunt. Pick an area to hunt and if you get the tag hunt there. There are big bucks all over the state. Get out and hunt away from your vehicle and roads and you can have success. Be an ethical hunter. If you hit an animal, exhaust all your efforts to find him before moving on. Its not that hard. Animals get shot and not found in every hunt but if you do not try to find your animal then there is a problem. Archery hunting is a great sport just cause some people dont like to hunt that way lets not ruin it for the ones who do. My boy is only 2 and he already loves going out to shoot my bow with me but has no deisre to go with me to shoot a gun.
 
RAC meetings are meaningless, the board already has their minds made up before meetings are even held.As far as picking a region on the archery hunt I believe its pretty much meaningless. The few amount of hunters,and low success rate doesnt equate to much.Just a way to smooze the muzzle, and rifle hunters, at the inconveinece of the primative weapon hunters.Personally Id be in favor of a 2 week August\Sept. archery hunt followed by a 2 week late november archery hunt (deer). Give the elk, and deer, some time off in between hunts.
 
Thanks for your post PSE. Hopefully if there is a crowding problem in your area it will be better now. Like you said, if you can get away from the crowds there are good deer in all units including the southern unit. Good luck to ya.

Chad
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-08 AT 09:39PM (MST)[p]I still don't believe that the "overwhelming " majority of hunters wanted the archery hunt to remain statewide. I will agree that at the RAC meeting the majority wanted it to remain. I will give credit to the bowhunter groups they stick together and fight for their opportunity. Far better than the rifle and muzzleloader guys.
The way Utah collects hunting data there will never be a way to "scientifically" prove the statewaide archery hunt is hurting the Southern Region. But common sense tells me that if there are 10,000 bowhunters hunting an area, they will have an impact greater than if you have 5,000, even if they are bowhunters. Personally, I feel the dedicated hunters are getting into bowhunting more and more and they are the reason things are feeling more crowded. I don't know if there is a way to make the dedicated hunters stay in their regions, and let the regular bowtags stay statewide. Does anyone have the numbers of dedicated hunter region by region?
 
My 2 cents - I want you archery hunters to have exactly what you want & I'll stand up & be counted in your support. Just like I want you muz & rifle hunters to have exactly what you want & will support you in getting it.

United we stand, divided we fall.

Guy
 
It's so sad to see Utah's Wildlife Board think and vote the way they do. But what else can one expect when the Division makes the recommendations and the state allows the boards to be hand picked!

Shame on the board and shame on the Division for their lack of foresight in these matters. Their decisions just seem to become more absurd with each passing year. The way they think, the way they act, and the way they allow bounty hunting, and the selling of OUR wildlife to the highest bidder, are reflections of a state?s system gone very bad. It will end up hurting the Division, all hunters, and the game we hunt. I can't believe the Division is so off track. But one only needs to look at those who are benefiting so much at the price of so many, to understand why this has happened.

When are the hunters of this state going to wake up and understand the danger being caused to hunting, our state, and our reputation! It's pretty sad to see from my eyes. It's much like the economy of the US, it took a fool to not see it coming, and that same thing can be said about the mismanagement of our wildlife in this state. It's in very poor hands at the present, and big changes need to be made to ever get it back on track.

Next year, because of such shallow thinking and lack of reason, I and many others will be applying for a southern region tag, thus taking them away from others what could have otherwise been theirs. It just doesn't make any sense, but why should it, as it comes from group of people who are so out of touch with reality!

Utah?s wildlife management is in very poor hands and the sooner we get things changed the better.

Have a good one. BB
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-08 AT 08:43AM (MST)[p]Almost every bowhunter on here so far has stated "well I guess I will have to buy a Southern Region tag now". Isn't this proving the point that the Southern Region residents have been trying to make. Looks obvious as to where the MM archery hunters like to hunt the first two weeks.
 
I don't beleive everyone hunts down south the first 2 weeks, the point I think everyone will make this year is we are sick of you Southerners complaining about you not getting your tag every year, its not just the Southern units that have this issue Central and NE are dealing with it as well and a high number of hunters every year especially Archery hunters.
 
silentstalker wrote: The archers are not killing "your" deer down south. Archers kill 12% of the overall harvest. That is very little. Good luck blaming the archers for your bad quality. Simply no evidence to support that. You just invited all of us down. Be ready cause that just might happen.

Silentstalker, You remind me of a politician when you fail to give all of the facts - 2006 survey - southern region archery - 22.1% success rate.

Yes, Yes - I understand that your 12% is correct after you include the terrible Nothern units. You know, once-upon-a-time the Northern units were as good as the South, but the deer hunt was squantered away. The archers and your views are in the minority, but a very loud minority indeed!!

Don't get me wrong I've hunted with a bow many years, but I think you've had it all of your own way to long.
 
spotit1st,
I agree every bowhunter does not hunt down south. But there must be a bunch or this wouldn't be such a big deal.
 
Brine,

reread my posts. I gave the exact number of harvest percentage for the southern region. The success rate is 22.1 percent. Great job copying and pasting that! What I said was that archers kill 12% of the overall deer harvested. What that means so you understand is that for every 100 deer killed, archers kill 12. Follow? 22.1 percent equals 12 deer out of 100 killed. Is that enough facts? Look it up. It is from the DWR. Nothing I am promoting or making up.

That percentage has NOTHING to do with the other regions. Try to spin it however you want. And you call me a politician!! Now that is funny! I am much too oppinionated and abrasive to be a good politician!
 
">I agree every bowhunter does not hunt down south. But there must be a bunch or this wouldn't be such a big deal.<"


I live in the NE area, and I can tell you that the archery hunt has way more people hunting it now than ever before, I think that the overall number of people has gone up, not just in the south.

And I dont travel around the state to hunt so I dont care if its pick a spot or not. I could care less about this subject.

I do think they should implement more Archery only units like the wasatch though. Just my oppinon.

Jake H. MM Member since 1999.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
silentstocker wrote: 22.1 percent equals 12 deer out of 100 killed. Is that enough facts?

Actually 22.1% = 22.1 deer out of 100. I guess it's the one-tenth of the deer is confusing you. So I'll clarify it for you, it's really means 221 deer out of 1000.

That's just so you wouldn't have to cut one deer up to take your tenth.
 
Okay Brine,

Let me go REALLY slow for ya. The archers success rate is 22.1%. What that means, stay with me, is that 22.1 deer are harvested for evey 100 archery deer hunters.

Okay, hold on cause this gets really complicated right here.

Out of every 100 deer killed on the southern region, 12 of them are killed with archery tackle. That means 88 are killed with either a muzzleloader or rifle. If you can not stay on track long enough to follow that, I am sorry for ya! I can't break it down any more simple than that.

Have a great day.

Chad
 
You know I was yanking your chain before, but maybe you just need to expain it to this yocal again. How does 22% or 22 deer(which equates to the same) in the southern region go to 12 deer in the southern region. Just How!!
 
It does so very carefully!!! I get sarcasm at least sometimes!?! It is hard to decipher on the web though?

For you southern boys, I really do hope this does not negatively impact your ability to draw deer tags. That would suck to have to drive 150 plus miles north to hunt a dang deer!
 
Silentstalker,

There are too many archers in the Southern Region. Their success is not 12%, it's 22%(22 archery deer killed/100 deer killed)and I think the Big Game Board got this partially right. However, they should have gone further and set numbers for each separate deer hunt. You archers have gotten your way the last 15 years because you have been a loud minority, but the time is here to back off. Most of the hunters out there, that do not bow hunt, are really tired of the extended time and advantages bowhunter have received, but more tired of all of the crying that they do. I'm a bowhunter myself, but HOLY COW!!
 
Its not a big deal its just a big deal to the Southerners, come up North or Central on the Archery and see if anything is different from where you hunt, I hunted down South 2 years ago and seen about 1/8 of the hunters that the Central unit gets but I still choose to hunt there opening week because nobody actually gets off there wheelers or out of there trucks, same thing down south everyone road hunts opening week and then a few people start getting out on the ground and actually hunting!
 
Brine my friend,

You still don't get the 12% thing do ya? I KNOW the division states archers kill 21 percent in the southern region. Did you even read my explanation?

Of the overall harvest of bucks in the southern region the archers take is 12% of the bucks. You simply can not see the forest for the trees. Take your blaze orange blinders off man!

I love all the crying over the archers getting all the luxury's. Did you read the part about archers killing very few deer? The biggest benefit to the herds is reaped when archers are in the field hunting. Archers flood all units every year, have a great time and kill 12% of the overall harvest of bucks. The beauty of a primitive weapon is you can hunt a ton and not negatively impact the herd. As a "bowhunter" yourself you should be able to see the benefits of using such a weapon for opportunity. Unfortunately you have not talked with the DWR and biologists to get the real facts and are stuck on your rifle hunter mentality. Management can not and needs not be about what is fair. It should IMO be about what helps or hurts the herds. Any weapon type that kills 70%-80% of the deer should be reduced to the most restrictive dates and time frames. Any weapon type that kills the lowest should get the most time in the field to be more attractive to other hunters to draw them in. It is really not that hard of a concept to grasp.

If you think the south is crowded and over hunted, you should really come up and try the northeastern or central unit. You would find that the "crowding" issue is really not that different.

I have grown tired of this discussion going nowhere so I will leave it for now. Maybe one day we can discuss it again in person or at a meeting. I am sure we could have a more usefull conversation then.
 
I understand what you are saying about the impact of the other hunts vs archery. Lets ruin the southern region like we have the other regions. I think muzzleloaders and rifle should be reduced also.

Your deduction reasoning needs some adjustment though. State wide archery success was 12%, Southern region was 22% which means the Northern regions were less than 12% so don't average the state and use it for the southern region statistics.
 
My info came directly from Anis Aude (Sp?). He used the statistics I have shown for the southern region. When questioned repeatedly these were his numbers. He is a very sharp guy. I can only base my stance on the head biologists stats. If he mispoke, which I don't hink that he did, then I stand corrected.

I think we agree on more than you may think. We all want the deer herd to improve drastically.

I think my biggest complaint is we extend the season of the highest successful weapon but we reduce the opportunity of the least successful weapon? How does that help the deer herd?

I do NOT want to ruin the southern zone at all. There is not 1 shred of biological evidence to show bowhunters in their current densities are negatively impacting the deer herd. In any unit.

Hopefully some day soon the DWR will turn their efforts from the thriving elk herd and truly dig in to what can be done to grow our deer herds.
 
Brine, you really are makeing yourself look stupid.... SS splained it to ya in the simplest form and you still dont get it. Go back and read post 30 again (slowly this time).


"Hopefully some day soon the DWR will turn their efforts from the thriving elk herd and truly dig in to what can be done to grow our deer herds."

SS, I thought thats what they were going to do this year, I am very disapointed with the results. What ever happend to breaking down the 5 units into smaller ones.



Jake H. MM Member since 1999.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
Jake,

Unfortunately or fortunately depending on which side your on, the Mule Deer committee along with the DWR do not support micro manageing the deer herd in small units. To me it makes sense to break up the units to be better able to manage harvest and set regulations to meet specific herd needs.

Several people who I really respect and know more than me (actually most know more than me), believe this will not help.

It seems the DWR is content with the what we have now and are not really ready to try anything more than continuing with mass lisence sales and swapping between a 5 or 9 day hunt.

I see the micro units working in Colorado and other states and say is it not worth a try? We cannot continue to unleash the hordes of hunters into units with the expectation of a different outcome.

Brine,

I want to tell you I am sorry for being kind of an a$& today. It has been a rough week or two and I think this latest unrelated topic of hunting kind of set me off. I hope there are no hard feelings.

Chad
 
HERE'S 30

(Okay Brine,
Let me go REALLY slow for ya. The archers success rate is 22.1%. What that means, stay with me, is that 22.1 deer are harvested for evey 100 archery deer hunters.

Okay, hold on cause this gets really complicated right here.

Out of every 100 deer killed on the southern region, 12 of them are killed with archery tackle. That means 88 are killed with either a muzzleloader or rifle. If you can not stay on track long enough to follow that, I am sorry for ya! I can't break it down any more simple than that.

Have a great day)



Without being obnoxiously rude. Check DWR's report. You are backwards - read my posts again. Southern 22.1%, statewide 12% which means when the archers hit the southern region they get twice as many deer per 100 hunters as the state average.
 
Brine,

You are not being rude at all. I know what it says on the website.

22% of archers are successful out of 100 in the south. 12% are successful in the other regions combined.

I am talking about a DIFFERENT statistic but I can't seem to explain it to you in type form So I am going to stop trying. Try reading the last paragraph of my post #30. That is the stat I am talking about.

Good luck and have a great day.

Chad
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-08 AT 11:59PM (MST)[p]Ohay...my two cents worth on this issue. I grew up in Southern Utah and hunted it hard with a bow every year for 14 years. Yes I did see alot of bowhunters there, but, there's a TON of country down there too!!! HUGE Country! The Pine Valley Range, The Bumblebee, Cedar Mountain, The Dutton, The Boulder, The Monroe, The Pavhant, Kaparawitz Plateau, Beaver Mtns, Salina Canyon, Fairview, Manti, West Mountains.....just to name a few. There are plenty more believe me. There's going to be more guys going south because it alot of ground to cover and there's lots of options down there. I guarantee the hunter per square mile down there may not be more that what we see in the central and northren regions. I always did well cause I always tried to get away from the other hunters. That means hikin a bit. And it's no different up here in the Central and Northern areas. Get away from the roads, you'll find the deer and eliminate the hunters....Do that with a bow and BINGO....See more animals and even fewer hunters, regardless of which region you hunt. Most of these other hunters are only opening weekenders anyway. SO, IF THE DEER HERD IS OUR FOCUS AND CONCERN...WHICH IT SHOULD BE...get more bows in more guys hands and less guys carrying guns. Teach the new bowhunters how to shoot...what is ethical and what is not. What they're comfort level is and help them stay within that comfortable shooting range. But, give more guys bows for heavan's sake. The success numbers compared to the rifle hunt are WAAAAY lower, period! Thats a good thing in any region, right??? Thats not long division!!! Thats simple math. The only request I would have would be to do away with the dedicated huunter program. This gives us too many "casual bowhunters" who only bowhunt as a second option to their Muzzleloader or their rifles. This makes these guys more apt to wound an animal with a bow they see as as alternative weapon. Kip
 
I say "F" the deer down South. A true hunter will find trophy class deer in any region. While all the Northern folks went down south to chase deer, I was up here (North) chasing all the 180 class bucks on public land without a guy with 50 miles of me.
If you want to find big bucks, do the research and you can find them. Beleive it or not, big bucks exsist in Northern Utah. You may have seen a couple on the Wasatch Front during the extended hunt. Sorry to break the news to ya, but those bucks don't migrate from Southern Utah.

Screw the South! It's all about the NORTH SIDE (I'm throwing the North side gang sign right now)
Shizzle my nizzle you little Migrating bizzels!!!
 
Chad,
Give it up dude. You have just faced an impossible task.:D As for me, I can't wait to bowhunt in the NE region this year. Everybody will be down south chasing deer for the first few days and all those spikes you southern boys have been hiding for years. Enjoy all the company cause I'm gonna enjoy not having every Tom ##### and Harry walking underneath my tree stand.:&:&:&


It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 

I think this is where brine learned his math.

One more try for you on the 12% harvest. Rifle hunters kill 70% of the bucks killed each year, muzzle loader hunters kill 18% of the bucks killed each year, archery hunters kill 12% of the bucks killed each year.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 

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