Bonus Point Report

sagebrush · Jan 14, 2023

Maybe I'm just dense, but I can't make sense out of the elk bonus point report this year. The numbers just don't add up in my mind. Many of the units are out of wack, yet in some units, the numbers add up. The total number of applications is less than the amount of residents + non-residents? The total number of tags issued is less than the number of tags in the regs? Where am I going wrong?

huntazido · Jan 14, 2023

You are probably correct. I have a hunterstrailhead hunting odds subscription. I was talking to the owner via email and was asking when the 2022 AZ draw odds would be updated. He told me he was having a heck of a time making sense with the reports from AZGFD. They didn't make sense numerically or statistically. He even told G&F about this, and he could never get an answer, so he just published what they had in their reports.

I know for sure that one unit makes absolutely no sense. G&F reports say all but one person who had a certain number of points drew a tag but when you run the report with numbers it comes to 47% drew that had that many points.

Squaw · Jan 14, 2023

Are you looking at 2023 hunt codes and ‘22 odds?

AZNATIVE98 · Jan 14, 2023

Reports definitely have some serious discrepancies.

Skykarp · Jan 14, 2023

Like @Squaw stated make sure your on the right years regs and hunt codes.

I will say there are some situations that don’t make sense on the report. Showing people drawing in the bonus pass much lower. Even if they grouped with the highest bonus point holder they still wouldn’t have been in the bonus.

Love AZs draw but they got some funk for sure.

fin little · Jan 14, 2023

I think being able to draw 1st or 2nd choice in the first round makes it hard to figure. It can look like a higher bp holder got passed and a lower number drew in the BP round. The higher point holder likely drew a different unit. I think I got close on max points needed last year on some nonresident units I looked up.

longranger · Jan 14, 2023

I'd love an audit of azgfd draw department to see how many tags are going to people that shouldn't be getting tags. Their draw reports constantly have random people drawing bonus pass tags with way less points than several residents that get passed over with more points. I'm sure Randy Newberg and all those YouTube dudes like the system though.

Skykarp · Jan 14, 2023

It looking at 1/2 choice makes no difference

The hunt I’m referencing a 12 BP non res drew a tag skipping over 180 people with at or more bonus points. Even if he was grouped with the person with 25 that averages him at 19 points.

There were 26 people ahead of that “group” with higher bonus points on their first and second choice.

My guess is the reports are a mess but it makes you wonder.

sagebrush · Jan 14, 2023

sagebrush · Jan 14, 2023

Look at 3001 with 0 points. Total applicants 1 & 2 choices = 981, residents = 705, non-residents = 360. That should be 1,065 total applicants. I know how to match the report with the correct regulations. Apparently, I no longer know how to add.

Skykarp · Jan 14, 2023

sagebrush said:
Look at 3001 with 0 points. Total applicants 1 & 2 choices = 981, residents = 705, non-residents = 360. That should be 1,065 total applicants. I know how to match the report with the correct regulations. Apparently, I no longer know how to add.

It’s that new age math , it’s close enough. I’m dreading my kids going to school.

fullcry · Jan 14, 2023

Remember it’s Arizona.
The absolute worst state to get anything from.
They’re the King of incompetence for draws,statistics or anything else.They are just coming out of the dark ages.
I think they truly just learned what a computer is just a couple years ago.
But they still don’t know how to use one.

Joe2Kool · Jan 14, 2023

Yep. They can be confusing. A few years ago, I was on the phone with AZGFD with draw questions. Whoever I talked to explained some of it to me. Maybe I wrote it down on my printout. I'll look.

Crampy · Jan 14, 2023

sagebrush said:
Look at 3001 with 0 points. Total applicants 1 & 2 choices = 981, residents = 705, non-residents = 360. That should be 1,065 total applicants. I know how to match the report with the correct regulations. Apparently, I no longer know how to add.

Maybe they used Persons for the Res and Non-Res columns. But for the total column, they counted groups only 1x, not each individual person. Total is always LOWER than one would expect.

Don’t ask me why they would do something like that.

But yes, never trust AZ GFD when it comes to data, draws, software, ethics, etc…

Remember, in 2021, they’re the folks that did their draw and then sat on the results for weeks while trying to figure out their own data. Then did a second CC update deadline. They never did publicly explain what happened in any detail.

WapitiBob · Jan 16, 2023

each matching column adds correctly, I suspect they're removing apps from the column totals for some reason ie: 1st choice res + 1st choice nr doesn't = total res/nr

but, 1st choice res + 2nd choice res = total 1/2 res

a call to licensing will get you the answer

longranger · Jan 16, 2023

WapitiBob said:
each matching column adds correctly, I suspect they're removing apps from the column totals for some reason ie: 1st choice res + 1st choice nr doesn't = total res/nr

but, 1st choice res + 2nd choice res = total 1/2 res

a call to licensing will get you the answer

No it won't. I've called before to ask about discrepancies and they say they'll look into it and then I get ignored. They have no accountability or oversight on their draw and they do as they please.

sagebrush · Jan 16, 2023

WapitiBob said:
each matching column adds correctly, I suspect they're removing apps from the column totals for some reason ie: 1st choice res + 1st choice nr doesn't = total res/nr

but, 1st choice res + 2nd choice res = total 1/2 res

a call to licensing will get you the answer

I agree, each column adds up correctly, but, for some units, the total number of tags issued doesn't add up to the total number of tags available and there were no 3-5 round or left over tags, others match. I just want reliable information for decision making purposes.

BradA · Jan 16, 2023

Leave it to Arizona to mess up, worst draw process in all the states.

WapitiBob · Jan 16, 2023

longranger said:
No it won't. I've called before to ask about discrepancies and they say they'll look into it and then I get ignored. They have no accountability or oversight on their draw and they do as they please.

I normally talk to the gal that creates the report if I have a report issue. Don’t remember her name at the moment.

AZNATIVE98 · Jan 16, 2023

WapitiBob said:
I normally talk to the gal that creates the report if I have a report issue. Don’t remember her name at the moment.

If you were thinking of Amber Munig she retired Jan. 4th.

huntazido · Jan 16, 2023

AZNATIVE98 said:
If you were thinking of Amber Munig she retired Jan. 4th.

Interesting. I didn't know that. She was always very responsive to any messages I sent her over the years. She would go into great detail wither her responses and explain things thoroughly. I found her to be very professional. Don't mean to sidetrack conversation but who is her replacement?

Joe2Kool · Jan 16, 2023

Joe2Kool said:
Yep. They can be confusing. A few years ago, I was on the phone with AZGFD with draw questions. Whoever I talked to explained some of it to me. Maybe I wrote it down on my printout. I'll look.

I remember writing it on the report, but I've trashed them.

Skykarp · Jan 16, 2023

Well I have a 7 hour drive Wednesday so I may spend some of that time figuring this out .

yotebuster17 · Jan 16, 2023

Skykarp said:
It looking at 1/2 choice makes no difference

The hunt I’m referencing a 12 BP non res drew a tag skipping over 180 people with at or more bonus points. Even if he was grouped with the person with 25 that averages him at 19 points.

There were 26 people ahead of that “group” with higher bonus points on their first and second choice.

My guess is the reports are a mess but it makes you wonder.

It was probably a NR lifetime license holder that drew it out of the resident pool and had enough points for max. I drew tag 1 of 1 for desert sheep this year as a NR with my lifetime license so it will show up that a NR got a one tag unit tag on the draw report.

WapitiBob · Jan 17, 2023

AZNATIVE98 said:
If you were thinking of Amber Munig she retired Jan. 4th.

Congrats to her, she was awesome.
I've talked to her a bunch, wasn't her.

AZNATIVE98 · Jan 17, 2023

huntazido said:
Interesting. I didn't know that. She was always very responsive to any messages I sent her over the years. She would go into great detail wither her responses and explain things thoroughly. I found her to be very professional. Don't mean to sidetrack conversation but who is her replacement?

Callie Cavalcant

AZNATIVE98 · Jan 17, 2023

WapitiBob said:
Congrats to her, she was awesome.
I've talked to her a bunch, wasn't her.

It could have possibly been Amber's replacement Callie Cavalcant, her prior job was Game Data Manager.

longranger · Jan 17, 2023

yotebuster17 said:
It was probably a NR lifetime license holder that drew it out of the resident pool and had enough points for max. I drew tag 1 of 1 for desert sheep this year as a NR with my lifetime license so it will show up that a NR got a one tag unit tag on the draw report.

Haha that's great to know because several people I know were pissed a "NR" pulled off drawing a 1 unit tag. I'll have to tell them nr with lifetime license still show up as NR.

yotebuster17 · Jan 17, 2023

longranger said:
Haha that's great to know because several people I know were pissed a "NR" pulled off drawing a 1 unit tag. I'll have to tell them nr with lifetime license still show up as NR.

Yeah that would be me ??‍