BIG MULE DEER HARD WINTER 2017

L

letmgetbig

Active Member
Messages
121
I know just because I have an opinion of something it doesn't make it right. But that doesn't make it wrong either. I am not saying we need to feed all the Deer I have been observing Mule Deer my whole life. I LOVE THEM! I have watched Mule Deer numbers decrease for the last 25+ years. And I want to GIVE something back to them. So I go Hunting with no intention of killing one, and I feed some of them by my house. I have made a vid. for some of you to see where I am coming from. If I thought feeding was bad or if I saw negative effects. I wouldn't do it. The Human population has grown so drastically in my area. It has had a big impact on the Mule Deer.
 
Thanks for feeding them. I tend to think people feeding the deer has way less of a negative impact on them then just letting them starve.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-17 AT 01:53PM (MST)[p]Amazing how people will not listen to the trained biologists who know that feeding does nothing but give the person a "do gooder" feeling when it's been proven that improperly done feeding has much more negative results than positive! Elk, on one hand, can be fed because of the completely different digestive system they have compared to antelope and deer. Do yourself and the deer a favor and let them make it without your help that is only making them dependent on humans and docile like a pet when they are and need to stay a wild animal. A true conservationist that you make yourself out to be should know better than to do what you're doing.
 
So for example if you have 10 deer and they are going to starve to death guaranteed, in the end of that scenario you have no deer. That's better than feeding them and having some dependent deer still walking around reproducing? Sorry, but I just don't see it that way. This guy is seeing and feeding some of the same bucks year after year, seems to be working to me. Obviously they aren't tipping over from being fed. Just saying...
 
95% of the fawns and 25-30% of adults died in our area this year. Guess what 95% of the Deer my neighbors and I fed lived. To me that is a huge success. I have been trying to find actual data & proven research from this mythical study that proved feeding deer does not work. All I can find is here say. I do feel much better trying to do something for the Deer than not. The Winter Range carrying capacity continues to decrease along with Deer numbers. So do nothing or try to do something. For the record I do have a biology background.
 
State wildlife managers have never wanted to get into feeding game. It's extremely expensive and they're already on tight budgets. Because of that, in part, any data found showing that feeding doesn't work is going to be what they use to support their no feeding policies, as opposed to data that may show that it may help some deer.
I know the guy running the Wyoming game and fish did not like that Greg Sheehan, the Utah director, was feeding deer. I can assure you, he wasn't against it because he didn't believe it works. He was against it because once one state begins feeding, residents in other states begin asking why their state isn't feeding.
Based on what I know and have seen, I believe supplemental feeding is better than letting them die. It's really expensive though.
I was asking Greg about the feed cost and it's expensive. But, Utah auctions off lots of tags, so there's some money to be used for such things. Other states take the high road, therefore don't have extra money to feed, so they use old data and data they like to claim feeding is a waste and does more harm than good.
So, while Utah may lose a few trophy animals to rich dudes, we do so with the hope of saving 100's of fawns from winter kill.
It's all about how you look at it.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
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Excellent post Founder, and Greg Sheehan did the right thing, in raising the funds to buy the feed and then following through with the feeding program.

Regardless of the cost, mule deer are the linch pin to western big game hunting, doing what ever it takes to grow the herd numbers, for surplus hunting opportunities, is the right thing to do, whether it is auction a few hundred tags to rich sportsmen or raising the price of every tag sold to the not so rich sportsmen, one way or the other, the revenue needs to be there to preserver mule deer, for hunting.

It's the right thing to do. I

If it is bringing pressure on other States, to do the same, good for him.

Investment in your business is what keeps it viable, be it the wildlife business or the manufacturing business, it's all business, in this the 22nd century.

DC
 
The theory is feeding large herds in small areas increases the spread of disease. I think it's less of an issue with a bunch of feeding sites feeding small herds like the op and his friends are doing. JMO
 
letmgetbig, nice video, and you are 100% correct . thank you for doing the right thing and sharing it.

As has been said feeding deer works, end of story. any debate is based on financial concerns not biological concerns. I understand why the game commissions aren't excited about feeding programs but it ticks me off when hunters buy into the BS, I assume it's because they don't want to fund it either.


Keep up the good work feeding and educating. maybe someday we'll convince the masses deer are not mysterious creatures than can only live of mythical substances man will never comprehend. I know they seen to stay pretty fat raiding my hay sheds .















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
Thanks for sharing this. I think your feeding justification is very logical. Thanks for saving many deer this winter. That nontypical buck is impressive!
 
The best mule deer video presentation I've seen in a long time. It's common sense. Thank you letmgetbig.
 
Very good video , lots of good points brought up. I guess I really don't care what some say , if you have first hand proof I commend you. A little common sense goes a long ways , the amount , what , and where seems to make the difference. Most of the people quick to talk badly about what your doing have never raised anything , other than maybe a pet. I can kill one of my cows real quick with improper feeding also , not a lot of difference.............
 
I like all your videos you postup. Thanks for sharing them with use. That Casper buck is a good looking deer. If he survives the hunts this year it will be interesting to see how big he gets this year. Feeding deer works, but like most have pointed out that the game departments don't want to find the money.
 
quickly.

I'd guess the OP here provides supplemental feeding more continuously than typical supplemental "emergency" programs can, therefore the comparison is false.
 
>But, Utah auctions off lots
>of tags, so there's some
>money to be used for
>such things. Other states take
>the high road, therefore don't
>have extra money to feed,
>so they use old data
>and data they like to
>claim feeding is a waste
>and does more harm than
>good.
>So, while Utah may lose a
>few trophy animals to rich
>dudes, we do so with
>the hope of saving 100's
>of fawns from winter kill.
>
>It's all about how you look
>at it.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com


So Founder do you fully align yourself with the SFW platform?
 
The truth isn't that feeding doesn't help the deer, it is in that doing it wrong will. Feed them early enough to adjust to the feed, feed them foods their systems will handle. I don't think it is about the game departments not wanting to find the funding. They can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. If the costs of non-consumptive species management was funded by other other sources, it would leave the departments with more to dedicate to the consumptive species.
 
"State wildlife managers have never wanted to get into feeding game. It's extremely expensive and they're already on tight budgets. Because of that, in part, any data found showing that feeding doesn't work is going to be what they use to support their no feeding policies, as opposed to data that may show that it may help some deer."

+1

Just read where Wyoming is sending sage grouse to North Dakota in hopes of expanding their population even though transplanting birds hasn't worked in the past. This time they're hoping it will work based on new research and others doing similar studies. Would imagine if wildlife managers dedicated the research, they could come up with ways to improve the odds to successfully feed mule deer. However, as Founder noted, they don't have the money and don't want to be forced to spend it on such programs.
 
Great video. Would you be willing to share a clip of that body 4 munching sage?

I would just like an * to your comment of feeding hay won't kill deer. When it is done at the wrong time and with a low quality hay/grass a deer' s ruminant stomach and the relationship with specific bacteria is unable to adjust fast enough and can in fact starve to death with a stomach full of hay.
Keep up the good work.
 
Plus 1 mntrunner!!!! There was a pile of deer dead up on the hay stacks this winter. Driving past looking at all the deer laying by some kind of food sources just proves how shitty Mother Nature can be!!
 
You can't let them get on deaths door before you feed them. and hay isn't always the best feed selection , neither is pizza. there are lots of so feed options so feed them what works best. probably a custom cube or pellet .



I have a simple solution for the feed program funding. fund it. I'd gladly pay a feed fee on my tags in every state where feeding would be beneficial. if it's not needed this year let it sit and draw interest until it is.















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
Regarding the deadly consequence of abruptly changing a deers food source.

I'm not convinced of that science in the least.

I'm surrounded by alfalfa feeds, above the field is the Monroe Mountain. There is 800 yards between the base of the mountain and the alfalfa fields.

From mid March until the mid October I rarely see a mule deer in the alfalfa fields.

In later October or early November we'll get a nasty night of wind, rain an or snow on the mountain, the next night as many a 50 to 100 mule deer show up in the alfalfa. If happen to be on the mountain during the nasty weather, you'll see deer moving down in groups of 5 to 25, an a fast trot.

They go from mountain browse to alfalfa in 24 hours. There is not diet transition period. It's one day browse, the next day green alfalfa.

In the 42 years I've watch this happen, I've never seen a deer bloat or die.

So you tell me, how is it that they can't tolerate an abrupt change in feed? Are they just intolerant to human provided food? Not!

Unfortunately, we know so very little about mule deer it's nearly criminal, in spite of what our university trained Ph.D biologists might have us believe. It is very easy to repeat, generation after generation, what someone else taught us, even at graduate school level. If an text book teaches something, that becomes truth, regardless. Truth changes, every generation or so.

Dead deer with a belly full of hay, laying next to a hay stack does not necessarily mean it was the hay that killed them. Pneumonia could do the same thing.

If the dead fawn in my back yard, has a stomach full of Austrian Pine needles and my wife's rose bushes, that he's been eating for three months, does that mean the pine needles and the rose bushes finally killed him?

DC
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-16-17 AT 09:55PM (MST)[p]I think ole 440 is on to something. All you guys out there who think we should be feeding mule deer, like the OP is doing, should get a gofundme account going and start changing the world of mule deer. Maybe anyone out there who gets government subsidies could donate those to the feeding program instead of booking hunts in states where you don't live.

Without a doubt, we will soon be swimming in mule deer here out west. Hunters will have to wade through the bucks to find the biggest one, which unfortunately will only be in the 160s because there are so many deer the bucks are stunted.

The truth though with this whole discussion is no one on here is going to change their mind about this. I certainly won't, because I have seen what feeding does to deer. It doesn't allow nature to select the inferior deer for winter mortality. And if you are really unlucky, and this is becoming more common every year, CWD shows up and there goes 90% of the herd.

Oh, and 2lumpy, you might check that alfalfa field in the middle of the night when you aren't seeing deer on it during light.
 
I did not say that the hay killed the deer it's just odd that so many were stacked up by the hay stacks. I for one say Mother Nature is gonna run her course no matter wut we as humans do. Sickness, disease etc. but I personally think deer should have same consideration on hard winters of some kind of feed program as the elk on the various feed grounds they get here in Wyoming. I can tell ya I drove past several elk feed grounds this winter and I didn't see much death laying around.
 
>I did not say that the
>hay killed the deer it's
>just odd that so many
>were stacked up by the
>hay stacks. I for one
>say Mother Nature is gonna
>run her course no matter
>wut we as humans do.
>Sickness, disease etc. but I
>personally think deer should have
>same consideration on hard
>winters of some kind of
>feed program as the elk
>on the various feed grounds
>they get here in Wyoming.
>I can tell ya I
>drove past several elk feed
>grounds this winter and I
>didn't see much death laying
>around.

Elk do not have the same digestive system as do deer and antelope and that is why they are easy to feed during the winter compared to the other species. The only way you can feed deer and antelope successfully is to start them early (lat Fall) so they have plenty of time for the microbes in their system to change and successfully digest the forage they're provided. Like jm77 stated in regards to the deer on the alfalfa in just one day. You can bet your bippy they've been in there feeding at night well before you see them go in during daylight hours to make you think they can easily change from one diet to the next in a day or two! It doesn't work that way and many states have done thorough research on the subject of how deer's digestive system work for a bunch of arm chair biologists to say they're wrong.
 
Thanks for some of the kind words. What the Deer really like is the rolled corn and sweet mix grain. I give them a little hay just to pick through. They usually eat the leaves and leave the stems. From what I have seen a week Deer can get feeling better again quickly, eating the grains. When a Deer resorts to a strictly Hay diet it has some problems and that's not good. But I don't think the problems were caused by the hay. We do see a lot of Dead Deer by Haystacks because that was a food source they came to and are to week to leave. mtnrunner I have a lot of film of that buck and hundreds of others. I would be happy to give you a clip or an hours worth. Some of my friends call that Buck killer, as he killed another Buck in a fight during the Rut last fall. jm77 I don't think we are in danger of ever having to many Deer again. That's why I am doing what I am. There is a much better chance of having nothing to hunt or to enjoy watching.
 
I applaud you for trying, but I don't know? Double edge sword here.
Deer associating with humans can't be good, especially as fawns.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-17 AT 09:22AM (MST)[p]
Deer in many areas are around people in the winter anyway they have no choice, it's a matter of are those people going to feed them or are these people going to watch them starve.


Deer can be saved by feeding let's just get that out of the way. if as much effort were put into what we feed them, when we feed them and how we feed them to best prevent any possible negative impacts as we put into making excuses to do nothing we'd have a great plan.


A deer that starves to death has no chance to avoid the other obstacles some of you obsess over . CWD won't kill deer that are already dead, so you do have a point there I suppose. but if I'm correct don't elk get CWD as well? so if 7000-9000 elk can gather at Jackson and survive CWD why can a few hundred deer here and there not survive?


I will agree in a perfect world feeding deer would not be a good idea. and we all know we live in a perfect world don't we.




Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-17 AT 11:24AM (MST)[p]Feed'em as a last resort. They shouldn't come into a feed yard expecting a free handout if they don't need it. Deer welfare.

There is a difference between frosted alfalfa in a field and dried alfalfa in a bale. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.

The video was self righteous when he started bagging on other hunters for legally filling their tags. Three nice bucks in a camp, but not good enough for the resident. Like the passion for the critter, but could do without the judging.

Light reading
http://www.wafwa.org/Documents and ...tSheets/MDWG Fact Sheet 02 Winter Feeding.pdf
 
This is a difficult and tough subject. And JM is right; very few will change an opinion - regardless of the facts. I've fed deer for over 20 years and they do fine. I've also run feedlots for cattle and sheep. And they do well with the proper ration as well.

There are other issues. First, if Wyoming G&F is opposed to feeding big game, they should lead the way and quit feeding all of the elk. Lead by example. If disease transmission is such a huge issue, then quit feeding elk and spreading brucellosis.

We have CWD in our area, and I have not seen any increased incidence in disease from feeding, but anecdotal evidence would indicate we have more fawns, better-conditioned deer and better post-weaning condition and growth in fawns than elsewhere, so I think the overall result of feeding is positive.

Second, deer are ruminants, just like cattle, elk, goats, sheep and others. Each has its own dietary needs and peculiarities. But it's not terribly complicated. When the WYO G&F was considering feeding deer in late January, a friend of mine who is a G&F employee called me and asked about getting/developing a proper ration. I told him G&F already has a good ration and it is used year-round at the Sybille Research Unit SW of Wheatland where they have mule deer in captivity. The pelleted ration is made in Torrington at Z&W Mill. But as many have said, starting a feeding program for any wild ruminant in February during a very tough winter might be too little too late. At least it is poor timing.

Anyway, mule deer can be fed and it's not rocket science like it is often described to be. But it's not bird seed and grass hay either. Proper rations are available and can be easily had. Utah used a ration from Cargill and I would think we could use a more locally derived ration if it was to happen again or if it is used in Wyoming.

Bottom line is mule deer can be fed, but it needs a thoughtful and continued approach.

Finally, I think feeding the deer in the impacted winter ranges in SW Wyoming is a good idea. But it needs to be done well so it will succeed. Since I live in SE Wyoming, I can't come there to help with the actual feeding, but I'd participate is some way if it is started or continued as has been described in this post. Gathering data on the number of fawns that return the next winter and comparing that to areas where deer aren't fed or looking at some measurement of body condition in April might be a good start.

Like so many other topics, we hunters just don't agree. That's OK and I hope we can remain united on the issues of significance.

Best of luck to all.
 
Just one more comment and I will let this go. I don't think I gave HAY enough credit in my last post. How many thousands of Deer survived because a little bit of hay made the difference they needed to survive. We talk about the Dead Deer by the haystack, but what about the ones that didn't die. I think more Deer have eaten hay than not. It was not my intention to judge. My family eats a Deer in a week and no one enjoys it (Deer meat) more than me. But if I do not find the Buck I want, I don't just kill one to fill my tag. (I usually find him I just let him go) I don't think to many of us are starving and need a Deer to survive. The life of a Deer is more valuable than some might think. I have killed 1 deer in the last 7 years and no one enjoys the hunt more than I do.
 
I will say this...
I have known letmgetbig for quite some time now and I can honestly say that there is probably no one I've met who cares about mule deer more than him. Clearly you and your neighbors feeding has worked if you've done it for such a long time. Also, I never felt like your video was casting judgement on anyone. I think it should be a crime to tag a doe in south western Wyoming. I understood the point you were trying to make. I know many who claim to care about mule deer but their actions show me something else. You letmgetbig, have always shown how much you do care. Keep doing what you are doing.







"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
Well said ICM DEER, it is also my thought that deer can and should be fed. Its to bad we couldn't have a in depth, unbiased (double blind) study as to its effectiveness or ineffectiveness.
In the last 7 years the science of wildlife management has been greatly aided by new technology. GPS gives researchers the ability to keep close tabs on a particular deer year after year. Ultrasound allows researchers to measure body fat & measure the size of the fawn before its born. A study utilizing the new technology (GPS collars & ultra-sound) should be conducted to aid in answering the following questions.
-Does feeding deer increase incident rates of disease?
-Does feeding deer increase body fat on deer that were fed during the winter (post winter)?
-Does feeding deer increase the size of fawns at the post winter survey.
-is feeding cost effective & could it every be implementing on a scale large enough to justify the expense.
If we had a study that showed positive effect from feeding I think there would be overwhelming support from the public to have a deer feed ground stamp just like the one sold to us for elk.
 
>
>Well said ICM DEER, it is
>also my thought that deer
>can and should be fed.
> Its to bad we
>couldn't have a in depth,
>unbiased (double blind) study as
>to its effectiveness or ineffectiveness.
>
>In the last 7 years the
>science of wildlife management has
>been greatly aided by new
>technology. GPS gives researchers the
>ability to keep close tabs
>on a particular deer year
>after year. Ultrasound allows
>researchers to measure body fat
>& measure the size of
>the fawn before its born.
> A study utilizing the
>new technology (GPS collars &
>ultra-sound) should be conducted to
>aid in answering the following
>questions.
>-Does feeding deer increase incident rates
>of disease?
>-Does feeding deer increase body fat
>on deer that were fed
>during the winter (post winter)?
>
>-Does feeding deer increase the size
>of fawns at the post
>winter survey.
>-is feeding cost effective & could
>it every be implementing on
>a scale large enough to
>justify the expense.
>If we had a study that
>showed positive effect from feeding
>I think there would be
>overwhelming support from the public
>to have a deer feed
>ground stamp just like the
>one sold to us for
>elk.
>

Google "Studies on feeding mule deer" and sit back and read.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-19-17 AT 10:45AM (MST)[p]After reading some studies that have been done, sounds like there have been very few studies on long term affects on winter feeding. The OP feeds these deer above town to help mitigate any vehicle collisions. With collisions and malnutrition being the major contributors to killing deer during Severe winters.
It seems that results Regarding the benefits of winter feeding on overall herd survival and production is mixed.
(Having both pros and cons)
However, fed deer declined at a slower rate than non fed deer.
But small short term increases in survival were noted and realized, these gains MAY not mitigate population declines.
So even after reading over these studies by wildlife biologists, there is no definitive answer to whether winter feedings benefits mule deer. Although I think it's important to note that some western state wildlife offices that have the funds do feed when necessary and the studies recognize the importance of WHEN to initiate such feedings. Either way, there is a lot of variables that come into play with a final conclusion.
But it sounds like even your "non-armchair biologists" don't have an easy or a definite answer.

http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1107&context=etd




"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
>Riddle me this, if funds were
>unlimited would agencies feed 6
>months of the year?

I sincerely doubt it because IMHO funds are not the deciding factor in feeding deer or antelope. It's more that by the time it's decided that winter is too hard and they need feeding it's usually too late to establish an effective program that will help them. Feeding must be started early enough so the change in food from summer to winter will be able to be digested properly to help them, rather than just fill their stomachs like many deer that die with a full stomach off a haystack.
 
Yes, I believe they would. Many years ago feeding deer hay and leftover christmas trees wasn't good, but science is such now that feed could be produced that works as well as feed on the range. Probably far, far better. I don't know all the details, but when I tagged along on the feeding this year with Greg Sheehan and a few other experts, I went away trusting and believing that the feed they were giving the deer was quite safe.

Maybe one of you rich guys can pony up a million dollars and a full blown 5 year test feeding and tracking deer can be conducted to see if it works.


>Riddle me this, if funds were
>unlimited would agencies feed 6
>months of the year?


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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Maybe you should pony up and show us since you think Utah DWR is the expert and should prove it to us. Personally I wouldn't trust Sheehan and the rest of that bunch along with their Board overloaded with SFW members any further than I could toss one of them!
 
JM77 you must have a different google than I do. I browsed the first couple of pages of your suggested search term & I see no damning studies on winter feeding of deer. Furthermore the study I did look at was published in the 2003. I think its fair to say that we now have better tools to effectively study whether winter feeding could lesson the effects of extreme winters.
 
I don't think we would ever want or need to feed deer 6 months a year. If you started feeding in Early December and continued till mid February-early March (depending on the severity of the winter). Most will definitely agree you cant wait till your 2 weeks into a extreme winter event to start feeding and expect to have optimal results but you do need some winter to kill older & sick deer.
 
Oh well, good, bad or ugly, money or no, I bet I'm right when I say there won't be any deer feeding programs in Wyoming in the near future or the next ten winters for that matter.

Next opinion?
 
I bet I'm right when I say, If wyoming was to have several bad winters in a row. Wyoming will be feeding deer.
No one knows the future except God old mighty and apparently ^^^^^.
 
If winter feeding doesn't work, why did Utah, Colorado and Idaho feed deer this winter?

I don't think UT, CO and ID would waste the kind of money that goes into feeding if they didn't think it makes some kind of positive difference.

I'de be interested to see what an unbiased study would find. Whether deer can be fed and would survive at a greater percentage than if they were not fed. But I think there is a state or two which would rather find that feeding doesn't make a difference...
 
I am curious why anyone would think the state of Wyoming would not want to feed deer if they actually thought it would be a benefit. THE STATE CURRENTLY FEEDS ELK! They show every year that they are not scared from feeding elk. They show every year that they are not afraid to ask elk hunters to pay extra to feed those elk. So ask yourself why would they be hesitant to ask deer hunters to do the same. Every year I buy a $15 stamp to help pay for that feed and the labor involved in feeding elk. Rather than assuming the reason they don't feed deer is because the G&F is involved in some sort of feeding benefit cover up just so they don't have to ask deer hunters to buy another stamp, maybe the reason is they don't see a benefit or a need to feed deer.

Also using the justification of "Utah does it" as the reason why Wyo should start is laughable. I will take Wyo deer management over Ut any day of the week and twice on sundays. Any NR hunters waiting 7 years to hunt a Ut gen deer area? The list of stupid sh!t Ut does in the name of game management is 10X what Wyo does. If it was the other way around Wyo hunters would be begging to share points with someone to hunt Wasatch Front.
 
>If winter feeding doesn't work, why
>did Utah, Colorado and Idaho
>feed deer this winter?

Because their armchair biologists didn't read the studies....
 
Maybe you're right and the great impossible is creating safe, quality feed for wintering mule deer. That's probably why deer aren't fed in Wyoming and elk are. The science in this world just hasn't reached that level yet. ha ha ha
Obviously I'm joking because I don't believe that at all. I believe safe, quality feed can be produced and probably already exists.

Why they feed elk and not deer???? I can think of a few reasons just off the top of my head. The big one might be that an elk is worth twice as much money to the state as a deer, and 15+ years ago when many elk feeding programs began, elk were probably worth 10x what a deer was when the non-resident demand for deer was pretty low.
Elk are far easier to feed too. That's a big one.

There's no doubt I believe it would be really, really expensive to feed deer in the winter. But the earlier question was, "if funds were unlimited".

Funds are limited. Utah can feed deer because we auction off a chunk of our best tags and have a little money to do it. I'm not saying that's the way it should be, but it is just a fact.

So why doesn't Wyoming feed deer? There's only a couple bottomline reasons.
1) Feed doesn't exist and can't be made to do it.
2) It's financially not worth it to them.

I'm sticking with #2 because I do believe feed does exist that can supplement deer in the winter, and if it exists, then #2 is all that's left. If money were unlimited, drones would be hovering over the Wyoming winter range all day dropping loads of yummy winter range grub packed in nice little pellets for the deer. (They'd probably even drop a few blankets for the trophy bucks to stay extra warm)

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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While it's doubtful that there will be a public feeding program for deer in Wyoming, there may be some private feeding of deer. The issue/opportunity is to ensure that the feeding is done as well as possible and meaningful data is gathered.

The time is right for someone in Western Wyoming to step up and start something. It'll need to be on private lands and "out of sight" to avoid creating controversy.

As I wrote previously, I hope it happens. But I also hope there is an underlying research/data collection objective to either prove or disprove the merits of feeding through the winter.

We've all heard the saying "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got." Maybe it's time to shift that deer wintering paradigm in Western Wyoming. Someone has to be a leader and unafraid to make change. Otherwise nothing ever changes and we'd still be doing all of the same things our forefathers did when they came here in the 1800's. Other things have changes, so maybe it is time for a change here as well.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-17 AT 01:00PM (MST)[p]I believe whitetail and mule deer are obviously different critters but I don't think their digestive systems are all that different. With all the deer farms throughout the country I'm sure the feed question has been answered as well as questions on abrupt diet changes. I think a lot of those dead deer with bellies full of hay were dead on their feet walkin to the hay stack. A belly full of alfalfa is hard on alot of critters especially hot alfalfa. Grass hay is a more natural food source, and if their bellies are full the digestive process produces the heat needed to get them through those cold winter nights. I still think it all comes down to limited resources and I don't think what the op is doin hurts a thing other than his pocketbook.
 
>Maybe you're right and the great
>impossible is creating safe, quality
>feed for wintering mule deer.
>That's probably why deer aren't
>fed in Wyoming and elk
>are. The science in this
>world just hasn't reached that
>level yet. ha ha ha
>
>Obviously I'm joking because I don't
>believe that at all. I
>believe safe, quality feed can
>be produced and probably already
>exists.
>
>Why they feed elk and not
>deer???? I can think of
>a few reasons just off
>the top of my head.
>The big one might be
>that an elk is worth
>twice as much money to
>the state as a deer,
>and 15+ years ago when
>many elk feeding programs began,
>elk were probably worth 10x
>what a deer was when
>the non-resident demand for deer
>was pretty low.
>Elk are far easier to feed
>too. That's a big one.
>
>
>There's no doubt I believe it
>would be really, really expensive
>to feed deer in the
>winter. But the earlier question
>was, "if funds were unlimited".
>
>
>Funds are limited. Utah can feed
>deer because we auction off
>a chunk of our best
>tags and have a little
>money to do it. I'm
>not saying that's the way
>it should be, but it
>is just a fact.
>
>So why doesn't Wyoming feed deer?
>There's only a couple bottomline
>reasons.
>1) Feed doesn't exist and can't
>be made to do it.
>
>2) It's financially not worth it
>to them.
>
>I'm sticking with #2 because I
>do believe feed does exist
>that can supplement deer in
>the winter, and if it
>exists, then #2 is all
>that's left. If money were
>unlimited, drones would be hovering
>over the Wyoming winter range
>all day dropping loads of
>yummy winter range grub packed
>in nice little pellets for
>the deer. (They'd probably even
>drop a few blankets for
>the trophy bucks to stay
>extra warm)
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Wyoming feeds elk because they carry brucelosis which can infect cattle. Feedgrounds keep the two separated. It has absolutely nothing do with maintaining elk populations.
 
founder,

All I can say is BS! The elk feeding program is and always has been a way to silence rancher complaints. All a deer feeding program would have done is make hunters feel better. Might have helped some deer, I don't know, but in the end Western Wyo was going to have a huge winter kill weather supplemental feeding happened or not.

If your thought is correct then you and other NR's should be fighting tooth and nail to get the price of your deer license raised so that it can make financial sense to help a starving deer. If the license cost $3120 the state could afford to put armed guards and private chefs out on the winter range for the helpless deer.

BTW, I give Utah less than 5 years before they are running with your Drone idea. I think it will be a warm January day in Big Piney before Wyoming would try it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-17 AT 10:21PM (MST)[p]"were dead on their feet walkin to the hay stack"

+1 DW

And......... if the Western States would invest a third the money the midwest and the south has spent studying whitetail, I would believe them, but they haven't and I don't.

I've begged our Universities and our State Game and Fish Departments to apply for Federal grants to create a Western Research Center for mule deer, like they have for whitetail at Mississippi State and Auburn, but................ a deer in the head lights look and smirks are all I've ever gotten.

So around and around we go, arm chair to arm chair and nothing changes, accept we have fewer and fewer mule deer to hunt, decade after decade.

DC
 
Man, that drone idea is a good one! If I had a drone, I'd load it up with deer treats and I'd have big bucks chasing that thing around the mountain. There'd be fat, lazy deer all over the place and we'd all have tags. ha ha ha




>founder,
>
>All I can say is BS!
> The elk feeding program
>is and always has been
>a way to silence rancher
>complaints. All a deer
>feeding program would have done
>is make hunters feel better.
> Might have helped some
>deer, I don't know, but
>in the end Western Wyo
>was going to have a
>huge winter kill weather supplemental
>feeding happened or not.
>
>If your thought is correct then
>you and other NR's should
>be fighting tooth and nail
>to get the price of
>your deer license raised so
>that it can make financial
>sense to help a starving
>deer. If the license cost
>$3120 the state could afford
>to put armed guards and
>private chefs out on the
>winter range for the helpless
>deer.
>
>BTW, I give Utah less than
>5 years before they are
>running with your Drone idea.
> I think it will
>be a warm January day
>in Big Piney before Wyoming
>would try it.


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 

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