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feyerfighter
Guest
saw these guys on the arizona strip last spring was wondering if they are big, average, small? i don't know much about them.
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elkfeet
Guest
Nice pics not sure on the score but wow, looks like there headed in the right direction for growth.
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TOOTHandTINE
Guest
I don't know for the area, but I don't think any of them will score more than 165, so I would say average.
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feyerfighter
Guest
what makes a ram score well? i know tine length accounts for the most with mule deer. i know that rams have length, mass, and spread measurements, but what counts the most. thanks for the answers.
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NV4Life
Guest
As for sheep you only get the length and mass measurements every 1/4. There is no spread credit and there is no deduction between the horn lengths for the net score. I am no expert but I have learned a lot from some very seasoned sheep hunters. To get a book ram you have to have it all: big bases 14"+, carries mass throught the length, and long horns 35"+.
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feyerfighter
Guest
cool. thanks for the info, hopefully i can find some bigger ones this year.
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DryFlyGuy
Guest
I would say they are average.
You want a large donut hole with the curl dropping at or below the jawline. Another good thing to look at is the gap between the horns on top of their head. The less the space, the more the mass, generally speaking.
If you find a ram with a big donut hole, a curl that drops below the jaw, and one strand of hair between the horns on top of his head, you got a surefire shooter.
You want a large donut hole with the curl dropping at or below the jawline. Another good thing to look at is the gap between the horns on top of their head. The less the space, the more the mass, generally speaking.
If you find a ram with a big donut hole, a curl that drops below the jaw, and one strand of hair between the horns on top of his head, you got a surefire shooter.
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,603
The ram on the right looks to be about a 155-160" ram, IMHO! He's a good solid shooter in MOST areas and WELL above the average ram harvested!
Some of the comments have been just a little off base (sorry). You DO get a deduction for any difference, this includes horn length (for the net score).
One of the comments was 14"+ X 35"+ ram is a book ram. Here's the math on a ram like that; 35+14+13.5+11+8x2=163". It takes 168" to "book" a desert ram!
The best way to kill a big ram is to DRAW THE TAG then hunt hard, hunt smart, get lucky!
The BEST sheep judges/guides/hunters even make errors. So, who knows for sure until you reduce it to bag and sling a tape on it?
BTW; Great rams and you are a lucky man for running into them. Most hunters NEVER actually get to see a desert ram IN THE WILD!
Happy Holidays and Good hunting to all.
Zeke
Some of the comments have been just a little off base (sorry). You DO get a deduction for any difference, this includes horn length (for the net score).
One of the comments was 14"+ X 35"+ ram is a book ram. Here's the math on a ram like that; 35+14+13.5+11+8x2=163". It takes 168" to "book" a desert ram!
The best way to kill a big ram is to DRAW THE TAG then hunt hard, hunt smart, get lucky!
The BEST sheep judges/guides/hunters even make errors. So, who knows for sure until you reduce it to bag and sling a tape on it?
BTW; Great rams and you are a lucky man for running into them. Most hunters NEVER actually get to see a desert ram IN THE WILD!
Happy Holidays and Good hunting to all.
Zeke
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NV4Life
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-09 AT 06:06PM (MST)[p]Well i'm sorry if my numbers bothered you, like I said I'm no expert. I was just giving him an idea of size. Now those numbers don't mean a thing unless you know what your looking at. If you noticed I never said this will equal 168".
I was just on a hunt were we killed a 177" Desert and the day before i got there another hunter killed a 174" ram. The 174" ram was passed on by the hunting party I was with due to the fact that they couldn't put it over 168" (very deceiving mass & length). And these are very seasoned sheep hunters. Once the other hunter whacked it the tape was put on it and it went something like this : (+/-) 14.5, 14, 13, 9.5, 36 = 174. And the scores on those rams were done by a official B&C measurer who has put tape on many rams. Now you could take a 1/2" off all those measurements and still get a book ram & 169".
Here is an official B&C score sheet. Like I said there is no D's for the horn length, you only get D's for the mass measurements.
I was just on a hunt were we killed a 177" Desert and the day before i got there another hunter killed a 174" ram. The 174" ram was passed on by the hunting party I was with due to the fact that they couldn't put it over 168" (very deceiving mass & length). And these are very seasoned sheep hunters. Once the other hunter whacked it the tape was put on it and it went something like this : (+/-) 14.5, 14, 13, 9.5, 36 = 174. And the scores on those rams were done by a official B&C measurer who has put tape on many rams. Now you could take a 1/2" off all those measurements and still get a book ram & 169".
Here is an official B&C score sheet. Like I said there is no D's for the horn length, you only get D's for the mass measurements.
NV4Life is correct, no deduct between length on each side. Ask an official measurer if you need to. Or if you want, go to B&C's web site and use there little calculator. Punch in all of the same mass measurements on each side and then different lenghts. As you will see no deductions between length. Sorry.
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NV4Life
Guest
Also if you notice the ram on the right is missing a lot of horn on the right side. That will plumit the score pretty hard.
Feyerfigher - great pics and thanks for sharing. Sheep are probably one of the coolest animals to watch in the wild.
Feyerfigher - great pics and thanks for sharing. Sheep are probably one of the coolest animals to watch in the wild.
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,603
NV4Life;
You da man and I stand corrected!!!!! Thanks for the info, it looks like the 7 sheep I've shot just went up in score. LOL
Sorry that you got you thermals in a bunch. I needed to look closer at your "plus" sign on your math problem!
You're spot on when you said MASS is a hard thing to judge.
Sounds like you guys killed a pig, congratulations. It would be a treat for us all to see it! Will it be posted here?
I was in NV 2 years ago and found a little bunch of rams for a friend. I was across the canyon and he shot the wrong one, this "little" one scored 162". I didn't measure it so it's probably accurate! LOL. I will always wonder what the big one scored!
Good luck in the drawings this season. (They're better than Christmas)
Zeke
You da man and I stand corrected!!!!! Thanks for the info, it looks like the 7 sheep I've shot just went up in score. LOL
Sorry that you got you thermals in a bunch. I needed to look closer at your "plus" sign on your math problem!
You're spot on when you said MASS is a hard thing to judge.
Sounds like you guys killed a pig, congratulations. It would be a treat for us all to see it! Will it be posted here?
I was in NV 2 years ago and found a little bunch of rams for a friend. I was across the canyon and he shot the wrong one, this "little" one scored 162". I didn't measure it so it's probably accurate! LOL. I will always wonder what the big one scored!
Good luck in the drawings this season. (They're better than Christmas)
Zeke
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,603
Thanks downsouth and NV4Life;
I stand corrected! After all these years it's good to know that I can learn a thing or two about sheep!
The question was really whether the rams were big! Having hunted in 2 NV units, 3 UT units and 1 AZ unit, I think we can all agree that the BEST answer is "It all depends on the State and the Unit"!!!!!! Some, if not MOST units will dictate that the ram on the right is a trophy ram. In some units this ram would be a pud. The first order of business is procuring the tag! NO SMALL JOB!
Obviously if a hunter is in the 170"+++++ unit that NV4Life was in these rams will not match up well!
Thanks for all the great comments! It's good to see all the passion!
Zeke
I stand corrected! After all these years it's good to know that I can learn a thing or two about sheep!
The question was really whether the rams were big! Having hunted in 2 NV units, 3 UT units and 1 AZ unit, I think we can all agree that the BEST answer is "It all depends on the State and the Unit"!!!!!! Some, if not MOST units will dictate that the ram on the right is a trophy ram. In some units this ram would be a pud. The first order of business is procuring the tag! NO SMALL JOB!
Obviously if a hunter is in the 170"+++++ unit that NV4Life was in these rams will not match up well!
Thanks for all the great comments! It's good to see all the passion!
Zeke
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NV4Life
Guest
Zeke,
I'm actually glad to see someone on here admit they were wrong, its very refreshing. Kudos to you!!!
I have the luxury of being friends with several very respected B&C measurers, and I'm never afraid to ask questions.
As far as the ram we killed goes, it was a great hunt with great people and a huge ram (15-2/8, 37-6/8). I don't have permission to post the pics. I do believe it will soon be in an issue of 'Western Hunter Magazine'.
That is very impressive that you've been able to kill 7 sheep. Any pics? I personally have killed none.
Back to scoring sheep for those of you that would like to know:
Another thing about the quarter measurements: You base your quarters off of the longest horn. I.E. if you have 36 & 30 horns you base the quarters off the 36" horn at: the base, 9", 18" & 27". This is something to take into consideration, if the one horn is broomed off far enough to miss the last quarter you don't get that measurement.
Here is a link to a B&C score sheet for sheep. If you want to know how to take correct measurements look at the second page and it will give all the info you need.
http://www.boone-crockett.org/pdf/sheepsc.pdf
I'm actually glad to see someone on here admit they were wrong, its very refreshing. Kudos to you!!!
I have the luxury of being friends with several very respected B&C measurers, and I'm never afraid to ask questions.
As far as the ram we killed goes, it was a great hunt with great people and a huge ram (15-2/8, 37-6/8). I don't have permission to post the pics. I do believe it will soon be in an issue of 'Western Hunter Magazine'.
That is very impressive that you've been able to kill 7 sheep. Any pics? I personally have killed none.
Back to scoring sheep for those of you that would like to know:
Another thing about the quarter measurements: You base your quarters off of the longest horn. I.E. if you have 36 & 30 horns you base the quarters off the 36" horn at: the base, 9", 18" & 27". This is something to take into consideration, if the one horn is broomed off far enough to miss the last quarter you don't get that measurement.
Here is a link to a B&C score sheet for sheep. If you want to know how to take correct measurements look at the second page and it will give all the info you need.
http://www.boone-crockett.org/pdf/sheepsc.pdf
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,409
Zeke,
I thought you knew everything! At least that is what you have been telling me all these years!! LOL
I think a tape often cheapens hunting and cheats us out of a great trophy. I know Zeke believes this, but several decades of hunting have taught me that we generally put way too much stock in "what does he score". If you like the way he looks, put the hammer down and be real happy. No one... and especially not a tape can take away the joy of harvesting a nice animal...regardless of how many inches of horn he has. IMHO
I thought you knew everything! At least that is what you have been telling me all these years!! LOL
I think a tape often cheapens hunting and cheats us out of a great trophy. I know Zeke believes this, but several decades of hunting have taught me that we generally put way too much stock in "what does he score". If you like the way he looks, put the hammer down and be real happy. No one... and especially not a tape can take away the joy of harvesting a nice animal...regardless of how many inches of horn he has. IMHO
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,603
Littlebighorn;
Now I really do know everything! LOL. At least that's what I'll keep telling you!
It's a wasted day when I can't learn something from others.
I am a firm believer that the "tape" has ruined more hunts than it has enriched! Some of the time it's nice to know, just for comparison sake, what am animal scores. It should not decide for us if we had a good hunt!
Keep up the good work!
Zeke
Now I really do know everything! LOL. At least that's what I'll keep telling you!
It's a wasted day when I can't learn something from others.
I am a firm believer that the "tape" has ruined more hunts than it has enriched! Some of the time it's nice to know, just for comparison sake, what am animal scores. It should not decide for us if we had a good hunt!
Keep up the good work!
Zeke
blacktailer
Active Member
- Messages
- 125
"Also if you notice the ram on the right is missing a lot of horn on the right side. That will plumit the score pretty hard"
Just a sidenote: Missing a chunk of horn will only affect the score if one of the 1/4 mass measurements falls on the point of the missing horn material.
Just a sidenote: Missing a chunk of horn will only affect the score if one of the 1/4 mass measurements falls on the point of the missing horn material.
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NV4Life
Guest
Blacktailer
Thanks for pointing that out, I forgot to mention that.
For those of you who want to know:
I've added a couple lines to the pic on the aprox location of the 1/4 mass measurements. Now bare with me these aren't precise and its hard to get a really good idea of length just by looking at a head on photo. As you can see the D3 measurement is on the cusp of the chip and the D4 measurement will defiantly fall on the chip. Disclaimer: These are in no means exactly where those measurements will be taken...I don't take any responsibility if they are not exactly where the 1/4's would be measured. This is just for reference
.
Thanks for pointing that out, I forgot to mention that.
For those of you who want to know:
I've added a couple lines to the pic on the aprox location of the 1/4 mass measurements. Now bare with me these aren't precise and its hard to get a really good idea of length just by looking at a head on photo. As you can see the D3 measurement is on the cusp of the chip and the D4 measurement will defiantly fall on the chip. Disclaimer: These are in no means exactly where those measurements will be taken...I don't take any responsibility if they are not exactly where the 1/4's would be measured. This is just for reference
.
