"Big Game Management"

[tailchasers]

Is there such a thing found in any western state rather than money management? If there is I'd like to know as I'd be interested in giving them some of my hard earned cash by applying for a hunt.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."

 

[elkassassin]

You wanna Play Utah's Games?










[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[tailchasers]

Only if I can have your fat wallet as it seems to be a royalty game there.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."

 

[DW]

Come to colorado it's only $610 for an elk and u can fish too!

 

[elks96]

>Come to colorado it's only $610
>for an elk and u
>can fish too!

Read his post again! Which state is truly running their system for management of wildlife and not to max. Profits. Colorado is not one of those states considering the land owner welfare etc..

Hell we have major issues with our deer herd and still they give out tons of doe tags...

 

[Blank]

I have several good friends in IDFG and I like Idaho's present management program. The biologists really do try to manage per unit objectives. Where it gets convoluted is the disparity between what is proposed to management, versus what is presented to the public, and versus what actually gets to the Comission and Legislature.

Everyone wants the deer numbers of the 60's and 70's, without taking into consideration the change in hunan population and use of 4WD's and four wheelers. There's a new balance in there somewhere-we just have to find it.

 

[WapitiBob]

I happily give my NR money to WY, and right behind them, AZ.

 

[Tristate]

There is not one single western state that is running its wildlife program sustainably. Not all of them are about max profit but none of them are about health and sustainability.

 

[tailchasers]

Kind of a short list I know. Just wondering if someone has more insight into game management in other states than what I have. I'm at the point where if my money can be spent better in another state more purpsefully than those states which are blatantly just after the cash then I would be more apt to pursue those states as compared to others.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."

 

[mulecreek]

A question for those of you that think state G&F agencies are trying to max "profits", I am curious where you think this profit is going? Do you think that the director gets to keep the profit? Do you think that the employees of the G&F divide up the profit at the end of the year? Do you think that they get a profit sharing bonus?

Anyone that thinks state G&F agencies make a profit doesn't have a basic understanding of how the G&F agencies are funded. They are trying to generate revenue. Yes, they try their best to maximize that revenue. Revenue is not even close to the same as profit or loss. The revenue they generate is then used to pay for the expenses they incur while trying to manage game and fish populations. They usually have a few funding sources, one of which is license fees. Look at Wyoming as an example. Wyo G&F had to cut programs because they did not generate enough revenue or get sufficient funding to pay for these programs. If they made a profit then that would mean they had money left over after expenses had been paid. If you want to complain about how they are managing game and fish then that is a fine argument to have but to think they are trying to generate a profit that will somehow be a benefit to them is foolish.

 

[BuzzH]

mulecreek, some great comments there.

In particular to the WYGF, if they were only concerned with revenue (or "profit" as the uninformed would say), why have they cut deer and pronghorn tags the last 3-4 years?

This year alone, there were 12,000 less pronghorn tags issued than last year. That is in response to declines in pronghorns caused by a wide variety of issues. The biologists are doing what needs to be done, and they are getting support from the public on this as well.

I believe that Wyoming has some of the most pro-active management of the Western States.

 

[tailchasers]

Examples; increase landowner vouchers another 5% where the 5% is taken from the general pool of tags which will be sold at a higher rate; back to back winter kills with little to no tag reductions in several hard hit units; continue to offer does tags and in some instances increase doe tags in hard hit winter kill units; offer BS tags in units where and when animals rarely frequent at least at the tag numbers offered for the specified unit; offer Private Land Owner tags, Land owner vouchers, and Over the Counter tags in units with little if any public lands; continue to conduct study after study after study with limited boots on the ground benefit such as habitat improvements, spring restoration, or predator management; since the program is Colorado Park and Wildlife the state continues to pilfer moneys into unsustainable areas such as certain fisheries, park management, and non game species taking away resources from more sustainable areas; forming agreements with federal agencies which reduce the sustainable recreational activities within the state.

Just to name a few.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."

 

[Stonefly]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-14 AT 05:49AM (MST)[p]Here in Utah the DWR is set up, in a way, that its to socialistic to really help out the big game in very effective ways. They spend way to much of the money generated from Big Game tags on Non Game programs, Small Game ( mostly Upland Game), raptorian and Bird watching programs.... ect.. I have never been able to find an exact amount, How many cents from a dollar, that actually goes back into Big Game and Big Game habitat. The most common answer I get is, We are responsible for ALL Game Animals, not just Big Game. My reply is That is almost the same answer Obummer give when questioned about Welfare. Take the species that generate the most funds and spread it around to other programs that are of interest only to those who will generate little or no revenue to their target species. They just "lobby" i.e. whine a lot for more. Then you have money grab programs. That draw in more money for NO added benefit. Like the "mentoring' Program. the DWR will now get money from NON HUNTERS to apply for a tag that only 1 person will use. All at the expense of the "pool" of hunters who have applied for years and years. Then you have the ( for lack of a better term)"Business" lobbyists groups, That whine to get more and more Hunting laws to benefit their agenda's. And receive what they want by lobbying with funds, stolen from Utah hunters and Utah's Big Game . If you would like to see the model for how it all works just look to what is going on in Washington right now.. its almost the same, only the Utah DWR hides it a little better.

 

[eelgrass]

It's good to be involved, but at some point you have to just take what it gives you and get out there and enjoy. The world gets more complex every day and that's doubly true of G&F Departments. If I can manage to do it here in California, you can too. I've already converted my $50 fishing license into several hundred dollars worth of quality fish.(retail prices)

If you don't want to pick your own State, you would be good to pick Wyoming, if for no other reason, they at least welcome us. Play by their rules so it remains that way. Hunting is a great privilege and we're free to do it so GO!

Eel

 

[wileywapati]

Where to begin.

Game managers are concerned with a couple
Things.

1 are there enough males to breed females and
Provide for a hunt.

2 is winter range capacity not being exceeded.

Weather, will never be controlled by man. We can't
Stop drought, snow or cold. Predators and their control
Through willy nilly killing has a bleak success record at best.
We ain't gonna quit driving our vehicles and game will
Certainly continue to pay that price.

So that brings us to the social issues of who, how, when and
Where hunters get to kill game. I will very respectfully disagree
With Stonefly's statement about Utah being to
Socialist of a system. In my opinion it's just the opposite.

In Utah we manage our herds for a couple of groups.
Max bonus point holders and conservation permits.
There are areas where we can certainly sell more elk
Permits, as well as deer permits. This reluctance to
Sell these permits lead to idiotic ideas like management
Hunts on our LE units. It also appeases hunters that wait 20
Years to draw a tag and don't want to see another hunter
On their hunt.

So how can a Wildlife Agency not lose their shorts by not
Selling tags? Simple. They require you to have a hunting
License before you apply for any hunts. Hell you can't even apply
For a GS deer tag without having a hunting license.
With these license sales comes the scale for Pittman
Robertson funding. So that $36.00 you pay for a combo
License is at a minimum doubled if not tripled
Or quadrupled.

As far as big game funding other species, it does but hunting
License sales are a fraction of fishing licenses.

I've said it forever, dump the entitlement point
System for a straight luck of the draw system and
Reduce conservation permits to 1 per species per
Each of Utah's five regions. The DWR will be the
Only seller of these permits.

Peace.




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012

 

[Stonefly]

Wiley, I agree with alot of what you are saying. I have a question about the Pittman Robertson statement in your post. I ask this question for no other reason than I would like to know what you meant by it. (I am not being a smart a$$.. more of a dumb a$$ I guess lol) From what I learned of the Pittman Robertson act, as a Hunter education instructor, This is a Tax that is placed on a lot of hunting and shooting items, I was told that the tax from handguns and archery was specifically used for Hunter Education programs. As the state of Utah used NO State money to fund its Hunter Education programs. And as all the other States and most countries will accept Utah's "blue card" for Hunting in there state. It is THE ONLY program from the DWR I have thought to be a success. Are you referring to how pittman funds are distributed to the State? I have never been sure of how it works, but thought , The State must inflate its number somehow to increase the money by mabey counting not just each hunting license but each tag, permit,application ect... Can you give me any insight on this. As far as the Utah DWR not being set up as "socialist" I stand by my statement. But for those who GASP in shock when reading it said .. maybe I should have said the Utah DWR is "Robin Hood" like. Steals from the high generators (BIG GAME) and gives to the,, um poor (bird watchers) Funny how when Robin hood is used instead of socialism its so much easier for some to swallow.

 

[wileywapati]

Stone, PR funds are doled out according to several things,
License sales being one of them.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012

 

[elkfromabove]

>Stone, PR funds are doled out
>according to several things,
>License sales being one of them.
>
>
>
>
>"The future is large scale auction
>tags.
>The majority of the tags should
>go up
>for auction anually. It MIGHT even
>be
>good to allow second sales of
>auction
>tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
>
>and then re-selling them to the
>public."
>TRISTATE 8/17/2012

Yes, the permits are also part of the formula as is the state human population. And those funds are not just handed over to the state automatically, they are project specific and have to be applied for with a project plan and a matching state amount (I think it's 25% state, 75% Pittman-Robertson, but I don't remember for sure.) And, FWIW, there is also a mirror program for sportfishing, called the Dingall-Peterson Act that taxes fishing equipment and boat fuel and counts fishing licenses separate from the hunting licenses. (Combos count for both.)

 

[DW]

>>Come to colorado it's only $610
>>for an elk and u
>>can fish too!
>
>Read his post again! Which state
>is truly running their system
>for management of wildlife and
>not to max. Profits. Colorado
>is not one of those
>states considering the land owner
>welfare etc..
>
>Hell we have major issues with
>our deer herd and still
>they give out tons of
>doe tags...


I was bein sarcastic!

 

[Castnshoot]

"I've said it forever, dump the entitlement point
System for a straight luck of the draw system and
Reduce conservation permits to 1 per species per
Each of Utah's five regions. The DWR will be the
Only seller of these permits."

Ditto"""""""