big game forever

D

desertdeer

Guest
hey i just completed a poll for big game forever. they are fighting to de-list wolves permenantly and rerturn the management rights to individual states. please take a second to sign their petition and complete the poll. they send the info directly to your senators and state officials. they dont spam you or contact you in any way other than an occasional email when they create a new poll or have a news update. biggameforever.org just copy and paste
 
Yeah BGF and the poll is a big conspiracy to pit hunters against hunters and keep us fighting amongst ourselves. Oh wait that's what we've been doing for 10 yrs without BGF as the enviro?s laugh all the way to the proverbial bank. If you don't agree with delisting or want to see Idaho and Montana shaft the rest of the country (or at least the other 8 states affected) fill out the poll as such. That's what its about.
 
this is their most recent poll. the last one i took for them took about twenty minutes to complete and asked more questions than any other wolf poll i have seen. they are a good group who represents hunters the way i want. i dont want our representatives thinking we are a small group of rednecks who just want another animal to shoot. we cant fight alone. we need an orginization to stand behind.
so sign the petition and let them know what you think
 
The poll asks a simple question what hunters think about the future efforts for wolf delisting.

The guy who wrote the poll has a degree in Political Science, worked in Washington DC for a US Senator, then went to Harvard Law School with a bunch of the anti hunter lobbyists to learn how these guys think and what they do. After graduating from Harvard Law, worked sucessfully in the business world for 8 years in the Mergers and Acquistion and Patent Law areas, and afer doing a business deal with Randy and Connie Brooks, avid hunters and owners of Barnes Bullets, Randy said, this kid is incredibly brilliant and capable.

They then wrote a $100,000 check to hire Ryan away to start Big Game Forever - he took a huge cut in pay from his law firm, because he is an avid hunter and cares about the future of hunting.

Big Game Forever has been a driving force to seek Congressional Action to solve the wolf problem for all states.

So, what is a joke about that.

The joke is wolves are destroying our game herds in the West, and upper midwest, and compared to teh millions of hunters who want tags every year, there are a relative handful fighting the anti-hunters. Why has this been allowed to happen ? and Why are not more sportsmen willing to get in and fight to solve the wolf problem ?

The bigger joke is the Animal Rights folks who have more than 160 attorneys working to destroy hunting, and we have sportsmen calling the few hunters with the brains and the passion to solve the problem a joke.

Don
 
The joke, Don, is BGF/SFW are riding the same money train as the animal activists. If not, then why wouldn't SFW/BGF support any and all wolf legislation?

Theres thousands of hunters working to get wolves delisted. The animal activists aren't running because of the SFW/BGF backed legislation, their running because of legislation that SFW/BGF are trying to kill.

So your siding with them. That's the joke!


I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
Go BGF!
Thanks Don for the update.

The little people will always speak ill of the great deeds others do. Too damn bad.

I took the poll and I'm glad someone will step up.

Zeke
 
deerlove

thanks for the expo support, the Expo is a big platform for a lot of Western STates wildlfie conservation and hunting and fishing.

thanks to each and everyone who particiaptes and our partners the MDF.

The poll on BGF speaks volumes, thousands of sportsmen have responded. www.biggameforever.org mid way down the page.

Deerlove, thanks for drawing attention to this issue, one of the most important ones to solve in our hunting world.
 
The BIG problem Don is NONE of the money I donated went to conservation or even anti wolf legislation?
 
Keep up the good fight Don, Ryan, BGF, SFW, MDF and everyone else trying to save hunting as we know it. Your efforts are greatly appriciated.
 
Several Thousand sportsmen responded to this poll, within hours.
about 84% said work to delist wolves in all the states. 12% said to take a Western States and Upper Mid West states, and less than 4% voted to take a lesser solution.

thousands vote, some still try to blame a few. Doesn't sell

BGF will continue with growning legions of hunters daily to solve the wolf issue for all states and all sportsmen.

There was a very productive conference call today wiht all the hunting group leaders and Congressional leaders.

this next week will be really interesting to see what happens in the house and senate showdown over money.; AFter this week, we will have multiple options ready to move forward.

If MT and ID get a wolf delisting, good.

A great start for the rest of the states.

don
 
Don:

So are you now speaking for several thousand sportsmen/sportswomen, NRA, SCI, RMEF, MDF? Could not pass the slow pitch over the center of the plate.

You said:

"If MT and ID get a wolf delisting, good.

A great start for the rest of the states."

I will take you at your work that it is a great start for the rest of the states. Given that, why did BGF and SFW try to stop that from happening by trying to kill the Simpson amendment?
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-01-11 AT 05:47PM (MST)[p]I wouldnt be expecting any straight answers from DKPEAY...

The hard questions are just...well, too hard to answer.

I'll give you an example of how it works with BGF/SFW and not answering the tough questions.

Hey Don, why did you speak for other groups when you were told not to?

Where is the transparency you promised at the big meeting a year ago?

Why havent you "opened up the books"?

Why did you and BGF/SFW run static on the tester/simpson language?

......now let the crickets sing.
 
Here is the petition.
----------------------------------------------------------------

We call on Congress to:
1. immediately and permanently delist wolves nationwide by passing HR 509 and S 249;
2. place a moratorium on further wolf reintroductions

We call on the States to:
1. immediately reduce wolf numbers to agreed upon levels in reintroduction areas and
2. manage for no increases in wolf populations in non-reintroduction states to the address the alarming rate of disappearance of our big game populations
----------------------------------------------------------------

If you agree with it, sign it. If you don't agree with it don't sign it.

Here is the poll.
----------------------------------------------------------------

There is a lot of pressure to accept compromise ?delisting? concepts right now. Big Game Forever want to know... How you feel about wolf delisting proposals?
Removals only for livestock kills.

Public wolf hunts in Montana and Idaho under federal restrictions is good enough.

It's time to return full STATE Management authority to the Northern Rockies.

It's time to return full STATE Management authority to Western and Midwestern States.

Fight the hard fight, Return STATE Management Authority to all states.
----------------------------------------------------------------

If you have an opinion, fill it out. If you don't, don't fill it out.

----------------------------------------------------------------

There is nothing on there that asks if you love Don or BGF. There is nothing on there that asks for your first born child.

If you love wolves and you want to see them spread from shore to shore, then be sure and point out everything bad you can find, and do everyting you can to derail the effort.

I don't live in wolf country and my hunting days are almost over, so I really don't know why I even care.

Hell, it's your future. Do whatever you want.

Eel
 
Looks like the same information the wolf preservationists got, has sunk into Dk Peay's brain. The Simpson/Tester bill is going through. So after trying to kill it, and failing, it's PR time. Now we're happy for Montana, and Idaho?

I hope that's true, and we can learn from some of our mistakes. I won't however hold my breath.


I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
I'm sure it's just a conference call. Rehberg, McCain, Hatch.



I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
I always say "If you start the fight you should finish it" you can't just pop on here and give out a speech and then cut and run, Just answer the questions. The hit and run tactic will do more harm then good, Don you have put your foot in the door now the time to move all the way in. You have a hand in this poker game so push all in or fold.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
DP,

You know damn well this poll is a joke. Even within your party. Written by a Harvard graduate who has learned how anti-hunters think?...whatever. Sporstman don't need a harvard graduate to create a poll. This poll was written based on how the SFW and BGF crowd thinks and seems intended to stay within that crowd.

"Public wolf hunts in Montana and Idaho under federal restrictions is good enough". This is a pathetic attempt to belittle any ID and MT success.

Just answer Buzz's questions...quit waiting on your "Harvard graduate" to type your response.
 
utah 400

Senator Risch of Idaho had a four state delisting - i can email you a copy of it - that would have included all of ID, MT, WY and UT, with much lower numbers of wolves required than the Simpson and TEster bill. We wanted a couple of changes to teh Risch Bill, put a little more teeth in it.

The Sportsmen of AZ were dramatically opposed to a four state bill, they, as you can imagine, wanted Arizona covered as well. The lobbist for Arizona's largest sportsmen coalition went pretty much ballistic over the two state bill.


Rishc's folks handed us a copy of that draft bill on FEb. 16, and told us they had Democratic Support for the bill.

then CSF leaves the meetingn and proposes a two state bill, which still leaves way to much power in the hands of the feds.

So, the precise answer is BGF never tried to kill the Simpson and TEster Bill. BGF asked the national hunting groups to withdraw support of a two state bill, and support the Risch four state bill, and someone leaked that PROPOSED press release and caused the little furror.

It will be really intersting to see what happens this week. Big article in teh Washington post today about this issue.

1200 colledge professors signed a letter opposinng the Simpson and Tester Bill. The 10 animal rights groups who agreed to not continue the law suit against Malloy are also saying they will oppose the Tester and Simpson bill.

BGF is a completely seperate corporation from SFW, different Federal tax id, different officers, different tax status.

BGF will continute to work for naitonal delisting for all states and all sportsmen.

BGF is not opposed to Simpson and Tester bill. Simply BGF said, why take a slice, when with a little more work could of had a half a loaf.

i will provide some informaiton about the facts on this issue, it is important to hunters.

i am not going to respond to the personal attacks.s

bottom line, BGF with 60 co-sponsors in Congress forced this issue out of the courts, where the current law favors the animal right groups 100 to 1, and now into congress, where the law can be written to get wolf management into the hands of the states and out of the feds.

Congress is now willing to Act on this issue, the final form, and how many battles will be interesting.

BGF is picking up huge momentum accross the country, sportsmen who want to see this issue resolved are joinning in droves, daily.

don

don
 
i dont know what he's done for hunting in utah but let me tell you what i've seen sfw do for our state. i went from being able to buy a tag over the counter every year that was good for all three weapons and either sex pre sfw. since they became involved it has gone from that to first come first serve and have to pick a weapon choice. then to a draw. then to 3 and 5 day hunting seasons. now no more statewide archery and having to draw an archery tag. now this option 2 bullship. all on sfw's watch. and this is with thousands of less hunters and in their own words 90 to 100 thousand more deer! and i dont even want to get started on the expo tags and that fiasco. none of this can be up for debate either. its actually happened. they'll be the first to blame the dwr or whoever else they can all the while taking credit for all the good stuff. screw sfw!!! we need them gone from this state a.s.a.p. the only reason they're even semi relevant now is from the money the expo tags generate. if we can get those done away with, sfw will follow right behind them and that will be the best day in utah wildlife in the last 20 years.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-02-11 AT 03:06PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-02-11 AT 02:56?PM (MST)

dkpeay stated - ""So, the precise answer is BGF never tried to kill the Simpson and TEster."

Ryan Benson, when Simpson-Tester was put in the Congressional Budget Resolution sent this email, which was then forwarded to many involved in the wolf issue.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Robert Fanning
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: "house of wolf cards is imploding quickly"

Bob,

Unfortunately this is Tester and Baucus's language that leaves most of the country squarely in the enviros cross hairs. Salazar convinced Simpson from Idaho to break ranks. Probably leaves the door open to relisting in idaho and montana as well. Why are we such a nation of ambulance chasers sometimes, when our elected officials are afraid of obvious solutions to stop the hemoraging once and for all? We all need to call Simpson today and tell him he is falling for politics of divide and conquer.
Ryan
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hmmmmm. BGF ".....never tried to kill Simpson and Tester......"

Just sayin'.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-02-11 AT 03:07PM (MST)[p]dkpeay stated - ""So, the precise answer is BGF never tried to kill the Simpson and TEster."

Reallu.

Not too long ago, many people received this forwarded email from Robert Fanning, which he implies originated from Ryan Benson of BGF. Looks a lot like the email in the previous post.

Read it below.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

From: Robert Fanning [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 10:53 AM
To: recipient list blocked
Subject: BETRAYAL !!! Yesterday's development in wolf delisting

Wolf language in CR is wrong approach

Yesterday?s development in wolf delisting:

Some of you may of heard that wolf delisting language was included in the House C.R. to keep the government funded. Unfortunately, the language in the C.R. is not the good development it appears to be. See Rehberg press release below.

Unfortunately the language that is included is the administration?s language that is being pushed by Tester and Baucus. The language leaves most of the country squarely in the cross hairs of unmanaged wolves?. It leaves the door open to relisting in Idaho and Montana. Does nothing to stop the wave of spreading destruction anywhere else. Doesn?t delist most wolf states. Does nothing to restore state management. Doesn?t end the endless cycle of wasteful litigation. Keeps the spigot of EAJA funding for enviro litigants alive diverting millions of dollars from our children?s and grandchildren?s future into lawyers and environmental endowment funds. For all these reasons, the C.R. Approach could never be ?The American Big Game and Livestock Protection Act? as H.R. 509 and S. 249 are so appropriately named.

Dan Ashe convinced Simpson from Idaho to break ranks with the 48 Senators and Congressmen that are working on the right solution. 2 Senators recognize the need for a fix, but are pushing a watered down non-solution that has no support. Why are we such a nation of ambulance chasers sometimes? Why are some officials afraid of obvious solutions to stop the hemorrhaging once and for all? This is a $100 Million a year problem that is only getting worse, bigger, deeper and more widespread.

Last year a very similar approach was used by the anti-wolf management folks. They make it appear to be a compromise, but ultimately they divide the ranks and then kill the watered down solution as well. The folks who are pushing this want no wolf management, not even under the watered down scenario.

We all need to call Simpson today and tell him he is falling for politics of divide and conquer. Tell him you do not support the CR that the ONLY solution is H.R. 509.

DC office 202-225-5531
Boise office 208-334-1953
Email: simpson.house.gov

Ryan Benson, {Doctor of Juris Prudence. , Harvard University}

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Not sure if that was from Mr. Benson or not. Given the confusion that always happens whenever BGF/SFW is involved, who knows?

For those who did not want to read the entire email, this last paragraph, re-quoted below seems different than what dkpeay stated.

"We all need to call Simpson today and tell him he is falling for politics of divide and conquer. Tell him you do not support the CR that the ONLY solution is H.R. 509."


So, when dkpeay stated, "...the precise answer is BGF never tried to kill the Simpson and TEster Bill" should we believe that?

Just sayin'.
 
dkpeay stated - "BGF asked the national hunting groups to withdraw support of a two state bill, and support the Risch four state bill, and someone leaked that PROPOSED press release and caused the little furror."

Those national hunting groups seem to have a different version of this "little furror."

See the press release below. Seems like a little more than a "LEAK" when all 535 Congress members get a press release where a small group, new to DC politics decides to misrepresent the position of some influential and longstanding hunter advocates.

NRA usually doesn't make such bold statements when it is merely a "little furror."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

?NRA, SCI, and CSF Disavow Misleading Press Release

Today the National Rifle Association, Safari Club International and the Congressional Sportsmen?s Foundation publicly disavowed a misleading press release distributed on Friday, March 11th to congressional offices and other outlets. The press release blatantly misrepresents the position of these organizations regarding legislation to delist gray wolves under the Endangered Species Act.

The draft release was circulated by an individual representing Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife and Big Game Forever. The individual representing these two groups was immediately advised to remove the aforementioned organizations named in the release. Unfortunately, he did not, and the release was transmitted without correcting the inaccurate information.

The release in question claimed that the NRA, SCI and CSF along with the other organizations listed below are opposed to language relating to the delisting of gray wolves in spending legislation currently pending before the U.S. Congress. In fact, these organizations support that language, as well as every other measure that has been introduced in the U.S. House and Senate to date addressing this important issue.

Congressional offices and members of the media should exercise caution in accepting as fact, or repeating, any claims made by Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Big Game Forever or any person claiming to represent them. Due to the blatant misrepresentation contained in the press release circulated by these two groups, any claims they make in the future should be thoroughly investigated and independently confirmed.


NRA Federal Affairs
Jeff Freeman
Senior Federal Lobbyist?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am a life member of the NRA, and when they give advice like the quote below, the last sentence in the release, I usually follow it.

"Due to the blatant misrepresentation contained in the press release circulated by these two groups, any claims they make in the future should be thoroughly investigated and independently confirmed."

Seems like good advice, based on what has been posted on this thread.

Just sayin'.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-02-11 AT 04:28PM (MST)[p]I have been an ocassional lurker of MM for quite some time and am very intrigued by what I am seeing on not only the wolf front, but also the political shenanigans in our own state that are coming to light.

My job keeps me fairly connected to the goings on in Utah and I must say, things seem to be shaking up quite a bit. I don't have much if an opinion one way or another. Just an observation.

Regards

GC
 
Hey Don,

I see you're dancing around the truth again...funny stuff.

I particularly like this quote of yours, Don said, "someone leaked that PROPOSED press release"

You call that a leak??? The last time there was a leak like that one, Noah built himself a boat.

I cant wait to see the spin you put on BigFins facts.
 
This is too rich. Another great wolf thread. Grab a big ol bucket of popcorn and a comfy chair and let's listen to the crickets, er, responses from DP...
 
But this thread is different, as facts are compiled and evidence is growing. If this doesn't alarm anyone to the point of asking who is in this fight for the good of all or the good of themselves they really just don't care about the politics behind special interest groups.
 
I,for one,have a great deal of faith in the knowledge of BigFin. He has been in the ESA wars. This wolf issue is very complex and there is alot of serious and current activity on the subject. A settlement proposal is sitting on Judge Molloy's desk waiting for a decision. Despite division among the original eco-elite plaintiffs in the lawsuit, it is my opinion that Molloy must be trying to fashion something other than a summary rejection of that settlement. That could have been done from the bench or earlier last week. Despite his tenured position as a Federal District Judge, he is feeling the heat. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that he wants to leave the bench with his legacy in Montana being the undying hatred of the majority of Montana's citizens. Wyoming is actively negotiating resolution of the wolf issue with Secretary Salazar of the Department of Interior. Something may shake loose soon that throws Wyoming back into the mix with Idaho and Montana. After the federal government decided not to appeal Judge Alan Johnson's Wyoming decision, I don't believe that Secretary Salazar is negotiating from a position of strength on the predator zone issue. I find it odd that Salazar is so directly involved in the negotiations. This could indicate that the self serving bureaucrats from the USFWS may have been pushed aside to avoid any attempt to scuttle settlement. You have the "home run" approach known as HR509 and S249 out there with the support of BGF and many other groups. You have the Testor/Simpson/Baucus legislation that may partially resolve the wolf issue for Idaho and Montana. The SSS crowd may be quietly doing what they said they would do as legal wolf killings are starting to be reported. Additional reporting may show more as the snow melts in the Rockies. With all the current focus in the House on cost cutting, why not just defund the USFWS and lay off its employees. The pressure is definitely on the eco-elites. They overplayed their hand with the last Molloy decision and didn't anticipate the strong backlash. Until recently, these elitists perceived most hunters and sportsman to be a disorganized group of morons. They are scared to death of the precedent that would be set by legislative delisting through HR509 and S249. It would quickly kill both their fund raising and anti-hunter agenda.
I am all for hitting the wolf issue from every angle. My biggest concern is that sportsman from Idaho and Montana will back off the pressure if they get some concessions through a judicial settlement or passage of the Simpson/Testor/Baucus legislation. I am also concerned about all the bickering and personal attacks that I see on the issue. I gotta believe the eco-elites love seeing the divisions form. My other major concern is my total distrust of Senator Max Baucus. His ties to Rodger Schlickeisen (CEO and President) of the Defenders of Wildlife are obvious. My only real disagreement with Big Fin, on this whole wolf mess, is his faith in Senator Testor. I do not share that faith. I may be wrong, but I see Testor as a puppet for Baucus. However, if he should screw up the wolf issue, he would be a one term wonder. The next few weeks should be real interesting. Whatever the outcome, no one should back down on pressuring the federal government to delist the wolf everywhere and turn the management over to the states. By 2012, the House, Senate and Presidency may well be controlled by the Republican Party. Maybe some partial victory will take place now with a home run hit down the road. Just remember, in a year or two, the grizzly bear will be on the ESA delisting menu in the Rockies.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-02-11 AT 09:27PM (MST)[p]Mightyhunter - Another great post. I appreciate your comments, but please don't mistake my big mouth for anything related to wisdom :)

I can assure you that if we get Simpson-Tester passed, those of us in MT are going to keep our foot on the throttle. There will still be much work to do as it relates to gaining state management of wolves in other places.

There are pieces that S.249 is trying to accomplish that can eventually be passed, and will help the problems we face. But, that bill as an amendment to the ESA, and how it currently is being promoted, along with a hostile Congress and White House, is not going to get out of the Senate crapper, let alone Barbara Boxer's Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

The Simpson-Tester bill has the plaintiffs scared as hell, and the fact that it will represent the first time Congress has done anything to mess with a species covered by the ESA really has them scared.

The precedent set by Simpson-Tester is what will make the possible solutions of S.249 easier to eventually get passed. The argument used by the wolf nuts to uninformed Congress Members goes something like this - "There have been 38 Congressional Sessions since the ESA, comprised of members much more knowledgeable than you with regards to endangered species, and the Congress has never touched anything under the purview of the ESA."

Well, guess what? They have now, if this passes.

The beat on the street in the wolf lover world is not that they have lost the wolf issue with Simpson-Tester language. They know they have lost that one. They are more scared of what this spells for their powerful money machine called the ESA. That is what really scares them.

They have used that, along with the Equal Access To Justice Act to get filthy rich with wolves, Grizzly Bears, you name it. They do not want to see that snowball start down the hill.

I can promise you that once it starts off the ledge with Simpson-Tester, the guys I know in Montana will be pushing that snowball as hard as we can.

Your point of Grizzlies in our future battles is dead on. In a different post, I told you of my involvement with the Grizzly Bear plans. This wolf stuff is just a pre-game warm up for what the Grizz fight will be.

These plaintiff groups are shoring up their defenses for that Grizz battle. That is why they do not want wolves, which they know are fully recovered, to result in any precedent setting events that weaken the ESA and how they plan to use it for Grizz.

Anything we can do in this wolf discussion that helps shake what these wolf nuts think is a bomb-proof foundation, is positive for the future discussion of Grizzlies, and for the wolf issue in other states.

Simpson-Tester, and other progress we might make, are a big step. Not by just kicking these groups in the teeth on wolves, but for Grizz and other species where they use ESA as their profit center.

As far as Tester, we do disagree on him. He has proven to be a pretty steady hand. None in DC are perfect, but he has been better for hunters than most of our delegation. His first couple years, it seemed he looked to Baucus for some sign of how it is done in DC.

He is very concerned about CRP and what it means for hunting, habitat, and farmers. He is concerned about LWCF Funding and what that does for increasing hunter access in the Rockies. He sends staff to meet with rod and gun clubs, which is something I have NEVER seen, from any MT politician.

So far, it looks like hunters and gun owners can count on Tester. The NRA likes him and rates him high on gun issues. He would be considered a conservative in any other states outside MT, ID, or WY.

Anyone who lets us down on wolves, is destined for new employment, Tester, Baucus, Rehberg, or whoever. I think all MT politicians know how important the wolf issue is at this time. Even our Governor, who is termed out, is on that bandwagon, knowing it benefits whatever his next political endeavor may be.

Thanks for the interesting observations.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
The Tester bacus legislation is more of the same, and its why most of the anti wolf players in Montana and Idaho are opposed to the legislation.
The thought that Big fin thinks we have the enviro's running scared with the Tester legislation is laughable. At this point the this legislation is the best case scenerio for them. It allows years more of litigation, and still lets them push for reintroduction of the Canadian wolf in 8 other states that aren't currently affected, and lets them claim they compromised with sportsmen and states.
 
Fedup, where in the Simpson bill does it say that the Canadian wolf will get reintroduced, to 8 other states? You don't have a clue about what your talking about. If it doesn't scare the wolf lovers why the last minute deal?

I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
+1 Zeke
+1 Don P.

You'll always have our support Don, Ryan and Big Game Forever. Anyone who fights for our hunting rights and fights to get rid of the wolf plague that is sweeping the Rockies is a great friend of ours.

Instead of fighting amongst each other we need to be banning together and fighting the real threat. You'd better believe the animal rights activists are spending millions of dollars and thousands of man hours to try and protect the wolves. And to try and take away our hunting and fishing rights forever. And they're getting stronger and more dangerous every day.

The threat is out there, not on here.

Hunters Against PETA

[http://www.HuntersAgainstPETA.com]
 
4100fps,

You would have to speak about the motives of the enviromental groups as you are much closer aligned to them than I am. I would suspect that the reason they are willing to deal is they know its the best outcome they could hope for. Sportsmen and the general public are catching onto your, er their game and they've awakened a sleeping giant.
I'm aware that the Tester bill doesn't directly reintroduce wolves in 8 more states but it keeps the other states involved from blocking the reintroduction by not allowing all states to manage wolves the way they see fit. Its a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.
 
Anyone who thinks that the eco-elites are not running scared on the wolf issue, is just not paying attention. Most of them know they overplayed their hand. Sure the Testor, Simpson, Baucus in and of itself is not enough. HR 509 and S 249 may not be something that can be passed right now with the current makeup of Congress. That can change in less than two years with I believe 27 Democratic Senators and a somewhat unpopular President coming up for re-election. Perhaps a settlement between Wyoming and the Feds may leave a few things up in the air. It could take away Judge Molloy's "red herring" for relisting the wolf. Perhaps Judge Molloy will agree to a partial settlement of the last lawsuit. Finally, many of the older sportsman's groups are starting to wake up and get involved. BGF and HAP are waking up a few others. The eco-elite groups are starting to separate and fight between themselves. THe SSS crowd is involved and the eco-elites have no idea how that activity can be stopped. The elites have alienated the various State Fish&Game offices that used to enforce the laws that hindered the SSS crowd. Pressure against the eco-elites is coming from every direction in many different ways. That is what is important. No one can back down from this fight or give up because everything did not go the way they wanted it to. All of this is a good thing. BigFin and most of the others posting on this issue are right. This fight is going to get strange and ugly, but fighting between ourselves only emboldens the eco-elites. I know that delays allow the wolf to reproduce and extend their range. I am confident that the wolves won't be exterminated but they will be controlled and big game populations that have been hammered can recover. All of this teaches us one valuable lesson. That lesson is you have to stay aware, politicaly active and pay attention to what the federal government and the eco-elites are up to. They can't be trusted. Sportsman were unaware and asleep at the wheel when all this wolf nonsense went down in the mid 1990s. Sure, the RMEF, SFW and MDF waited too long to get involved. It never should have happened. Now that the problem is here, we need to work together to stop it.
 
DKPeay,

You state that you won't answer any personal attacks.

Where are the personal attacks?

To me those looked like very valid questions, not personal attacks, unless of course the answers to those questions serve your personal needs?

I don't get it. I attended the meeting referred to and listened to the same promises and I am still waiting for the same answers Deerlove referred to.

You know I went to that meeting to give SFW a fair shake because of all of the negative things I had read about the organization. I listened to your side of the story and heard you make multiple promises about transparency, etc.

I left there that evening thinking to myself, let's see what happens.

Well, here we are still with no answers to the tough questions (personal attacks).

You made up my mind for me Don and I think if others simply looked at the facts their opinion may change.

Your silence speaks volumes!


As far as the Wolf issue is concerned, I too wish we could all unite as one force to fight this fight, but as long as there is money to be made on the issue that will never happen.
 
I read an interesting article that was published in the Cody Enterprise on April 6th, 2011. The article involved an update of what is going on in the "wolf" battles. Governor Matt Mead of Wyoming gave a status update of the wolf negotiations in that article. He is quoted as saying "there is maybe a three percent chance" that an agreement can be reached between the Feds and the State of Wyoming. As an attorney, I found that quote really interesting. It would appear that Wyoming is sticking to its postion on the predator zone issue and wants the USFWS and Ken Salazar of the Dept. of the Interior to know it. Legislation in its various forms still appears to be the best solution to the wolf problem. As sportsman, all we can do is continue to apply pressure in every direction to resolve the wolf problem.
 
wow. what a can of worms i opened. i think we can all agree that the issue of wolf reintroduction is the single biggest issue we should fight against. i chose to sign the petition and put my name on the list of sportsmen that bgf represents. i dont want wolves de-listed in one or two states. i want them wiped out. there is no chance in hell that a bill could pass that called for wolves to be exterminated so i decided to get behind the group that i felt was fighting hardest to control the wolf population in the west. if you guys are more educated than i am then please open my eyes to another group to join. i want wolves to be controlled in a lasting way. like i said i have signed the petition and completed a couple of surveys for bgf. they havent asked me for money and have kept me updated on what was going on. lets get the wolves under control and find another way to measure our peckers.
 
"lets get the wolves under control and find another way to measure our peckers"

Could not agree more. Our fight is not against bgf or sfw fighting against them will not get wolves de-listed. If you do not like the organizations then don't join, but I feel they are doing as much as anyone out there and will continue to get my support.
 
If you believe that and support BGF/SFW/Don Peay...tell them to quit trying to torpedo the Tester-Simpson language in the CR.

Its a two-way street.

Just sayin'...
 
Buzz Lightyear,

It is interesting, BGF critics give BGF no credit, if we have no juice, why are you trying to blame BGF for torpedoeing Simpson/Tester ? IF BGF has no juice, our positions don't matter right ?

BGF has not asked anyone to actively lobby against Simpson/Tester. To move a Two state bill when more could have been had was a bad decisoin by many, but that decision was locked into postion by HR 1 - by Simpson because of his postion as leading appropriator on Interior budget - around March 1 and the current CR is still being debated this hour, or shut the country down.

The Simpson/Tester is in the house version, but Boxer and Cardin are working to keep it OUT of the Senate version.

Animal rigthts groups and 1,200 professors at universities are activley lobbying against including Tester/Seimpson in the Senate version. NOT any sportsmen groups.

Obama has said that he will veto any CR that has any policy issues in it - meaning wolf delistinng, etc. So, the Simpons/TEster language appears to NOT be in the CR, if there is One.

Tester/Simpson bill will be in the CR or not. If it is, great. Move forward to get the rest of the states.


BGF will work until wolves are delisted in all states - where truly the states have the full authority to protect game herds and our hunting heritage.

BGF had a conference call with our DC lobbyists today, and they have had some very productive meetings with Dem. Senators in the last week to move legislation forward in teh comming weeks to fix this issue for all states.

It would seem that hunters would be pleased and willing to support a group working to keep wolves from destroying the herds

finally, per Gov. Mead's comments, yes the only sulution is to get Congress to Act, and change the ESA. a hard job, but must be done
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-11 AT 09:25PM (MST)[p]Don:

Great spin job. Why dosen't BGF name the third party that leaked their press release so everybody can figure out the truth? While we are at it, why don't you release the info promised during the SFW meeting before the extension of the expo permits? Why don't you take expo profits and use them to fight the wolf issue? Where were you when SCI and NRA had to publicly distance themselves from BGF.

Their press release stated:

"The release in question claimed that the NRA, SCI and CSF along with the other organizations listed below are opposed to language relating to the delisting of gray wolves in spending legislation currently pending before the U.S. Congress. In fact, these organizations support that language, as well as every other measure that has been introduced in the U.S. House and Senate to date addressing this important issue".

The "Joint Press Release" openly states they support "every other measure" Can BGF and SFW say that with a striaght face.

This post was about a BGF poll. That poll is sooooooooo leading it not even funny. Why not ask this question in your poll...

Should we take as much ground as possible whenever possible in batling wolves? Or is putty all our hopes on one or two bills "good enough"?

Don, one final question...Why did it take BGF from March 18 2011 until March 21, 2011 to lay the blame an an unnamed third party? Why not come out right away and claim it was a draft memo leaked without BGF permission? That should not take that long.

Don you more or less once said if you don't join BGF then you might as well join PETA. That is as clear as you can make it. To me, that said that if a I don't fall inline with you you then I am anti hunting. In response I asked you several times if I give my money and support to RMEF if I was still on the right side. I am still wainting for that answer.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-11 AT 10:06PM (MST)[p]Hey Don,

If BS was music...you'd be John Philip Sousa.

You're now making the claim that BGF/SFW didnt lobby against the tester-simpson language.

Deny this Don:

"Last year a very similar approach was used by the anti-wolf management folks. They make it appear to be a compromise, but ultimately they divide the ranks and then kill the watered down solution as well. The folks who are pushing this want no wolf management, not even under the watered down scenario.

We all need to call Simpson today and tell him he is falling for politics of divide and conquer. Tell him you do not support the CR that the ONLY solution is H.R. 509.

DC office 202-225-5531
Boise office 208-334-1953
Email: simpson.house.gov

Ryan Benson, {Doctor of Juris Prudence. , Harvard University}



Really Don?

Take a guess who this quote came from:

This article spells out why some proposed wolf-delisting bills are very good and some are very bad.

Hey Don...what groups have Harriet Hageman on their pay roll? Just curious. Sounds like a real "team player" bashing some of the best conservation organizations in the United States. Pure class...

The actions of Representative Simpson and Senators Tester and Baucus are beyond troubling, and should be cause for concern for anyone who seeks to protect our wildlife populations, our livestock producers, and our States? rights. Perhaps as significantly (and of grave concern), there are four groups that have endorsed Congressman Simpson?s efforts, and appear to be willing to sacrifice Wyoming? interests:

* National Rifle Association (NRA)
* Safari Club International (SCI)
* Congressional Sportsmen Foundation (CSF)
* Boone and Crockett

By supporting only limited delisting in just a few of the affected States, these four so-called sportsmen groups have essentially sold out everyone else that has been affected by this issue. While these groups also support all of the wolf delisting bills, including some very good legislation (discussed below), their actions in supporting HR 1 (with Congressman Simpson?s amendment) has allowed the Representatives and Senators to ?race for the bottom? in order to take the weakest stand possible on the issue.


Yep, nothing but full on support of tester-simpson in those quotes.

Keep up the good work Don...you're a real champ who works tirelessly to "unite" hunters.

What a joke.
 
Judge Molloy has just ruled against a settlement proposal from ten of the eco-elite groups in the original wolf lawsuit that relisted the wolves and stopped the hunting of them in Idaho and Montana in 2010. As an attorney, my only question was why he waited over two weeks to do this. His reasoning for his decision was simple enough and could have been summed up in a bench ruling without issuing another 20+ plus page decision. It would appear that if anything is to be done about the wolf, it will have to be accomplished through the legislative process. This decision by Molloy, may be just the impetus needed to push the legislative delisting forward. Meanwhile, the SSS crowd will take this latest Molloy decision as another excuse to move on with their agenda.
 
evidently your not following the news very closely. The Wolf legislation attached to the CR is through.





I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
4100 fps,
Actually, I do follow the news closely, but it may be difficult to keep up with someone claiming to move at 4,100 fps. Is it your contention that the one week continuing resolution passed at the last minute late Friday contained the Testor, Baucus, Simpson rider? If so, I would love to know your source for that information so that I can review it for myself. It is my understanding, that the wolf rider will actually be in the final 2011 budget to be voted on next week. All the eco-elite groups are running around with last minute attempts to derail that rider. Why would they bother if what you say is true and the issue is resolved?
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-11 AT 06:27PM (MST)[p]They better get to running around real quick like.

The 2011 budget will likley be signed by Wednesday or Thursday. Not much time to derail much of anything...although I'm sure BGF/SFW/DKP are likely working over-time trying.
 
It's not a done deal yet, there's lots of crying, finger pointing, screaming, feet kicking, head banging, and hair pulling to do. I think this is almost ready for a fork.



I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 

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