BHA, just sad what it is becoming

hossblur

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
11,286
The following was me taking a shot at BHA with another call to action. This one regarding "development' of camp grounds in national parks. I pointed out development is development whether campgrounds or wind farms, and that BHA lost its cred supporting the later.


This is the exchange on FB.

-------------------------

Where else is BHA calling for public land development? Can you name one place? I can't. I looked.

But ACTUALLY look at what the money supposedly going to Wildlife is. Even Worse, look at who has the discretion to enforce and control if and where it goes. 3 groups in the entire country pushed. BHA, TRCP, TU. A deal this "great" for wildlife and only 3 groups know it? Lands sister Whitney is the senior water policy advisor, DU didn't push it, wonder why?

On this one I believe personal politics of Land was the driver. In favoring "renewables" we create enemies with others. The climate change fight is an endless black hole. There are more oil and gas and miners in Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Nevada than "renewables" workers.

We need their votes and their help to fight off the Mike Lee's of the world. We don't need to alienate them so Land can PROVE his WOKENESS in DC.
-------------------------

Seems being called "woked" hit to close to home.
This was Lands response.

-------------------------
WOKENESS? Is renewable energy going to happen? Is it in our best interest to try to create policies that make it happen in the least impact to fish and wildlife habitat? Is it in our best interest to get some scratch to put back into conservation? Have you ever supported the land and water conservation fund? That got us scratch but no check of where it happened. Yeah we referenced TRCP and TU as supportive. Who else would you like? We are trying to get the best for something that is already moving. You just throwing stones or so you have a solution? Your assumptions are interesting. Interested in your answers from above questions...seriously.

-------------------------

So. There it is. A group that sold itself as being revolutionary. Sold bringing together folks from all sorts of pastimes and backgrounds to fight to keep our land, now just looks to profit.

I still believe in BHA mission statement. I think we need allies outside the box to help fight off the privatization. But, BHA, or at least Land Tawney, wants to get along and go along for "some scratch"



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>The following was me taking a
>shot at BHA with another
>call to action. This
>one regarding "development' of camp
>grounds in national parks.
>I pointed out development is
>development whether campgrounds or wind
>farms, and that BHA lost
>its cred supporting the later.
>
>
>
>This is the exchange on FB.
>
>
>-------------------------
>
>Where else is BHA calling for
>public land development? Can
>you name one place?
>I can't. I looked.
>
>
>But ACTUALLY look at what the
>money supposedly going to Wildlife
>is. Even Worse, look at
>who has the discretion to
>enforce and control if and
>where it goes. 3
>groups in the entire country
>pushed. BHA, TRCP, TU.
> A deal this "great"
>for wildlife and only 3
>groups know it? Lands
>sister Whitney is the senior
>water policy advisor, DU didn't
>push it, wonder why?
>
>On this one I believe personal
>politics of Land was the
>driver. In favoring "renewables"
>we create enemies with others.
> The climate change
>fight is an endless black
>hole. There are more
>oil and gas and miners
>in Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho,
>Nevada than "renewables" workers.
>
>We need their votes and their
>help to fight off the
>Mike Lee's of the world.
> We don't need to
>alienate them so Land can
>PROVE his WOKENESS in DC.
>
>-------------------------
>
>Seems being called "woked" hit to
>close to home.
>This was Lands response.
>
>-------------------------
>WOKENESS? Is renewable energy going to
>happen? Is it in our
>best interest to try to
>create policies that make it
>happen in the least impact
>to fish and wildlife habitat?
>Is it in our best
>interest to get some scratch
>to put back into conservation?
>Have you ever supported the
>land and water conservation fund?
>That got us scratch but
>no check of where it
>happened. Yeah we referenced
>TRCP and TU as supportive.
> Who else would you
>like? We are trying to
>get the best for something
>that is already moving.
>You just throwing stones or
>so you have a solution?
>Your assumptions are interesting. Interested
>in your answers from above
>questions...seriously.
>
>-------------------------
>
>So. There it is.
>A group that sold itself
>as being revolutionary. Sold
>bringing together folks from all
>sorts of pastimes and backgrounds
>to fight to keep our
>land, now just looks to
>profit.
>
>I still believe in BHA mission
>statement. I think we
>need allies outside the box
>to help fight off the
>privatization. But, BHA, or
>at least Land Tawney, wants
>to get along and go
>along for "some scratch"
>
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

HAHA. I and another guy brought up a similar complaint over the samething/ We got blocked from commenting. Not sure if we are on a time out or gone for good.

I asked the same thing, how can the be anti development but then support a massive increase in alternative energy production at the same time?

They gave the same baseline BS reply. It is going to happen either way so this way we have a say...

However we can have a say in all development. A say in oil and gas (which the group is admittedly against), a say in logging, a say in recreational use, etc. The group has lost all my support and the support of many I knew because of this wishy-washy stance.

Can you share with me where they were against camp ground development in a national park?
 
It was the Utah BHA page.

Sad thing is the guy who posted the article is a good guy. The local guys are good guys. It seems like there is a disconnect from local to national.

It was intetesting though that calling Land "woke" he jumped on. And responded back And forth several times.

His answer was the usual. "You have no solution", "your just throwing rocks",

Then he called me John Muir, which was interesting coming from a name dropper like Land.

I fired back that I fancied Jim Posewitz and his approach to not selling out for "some scratch" for renewable. He drops Jim's name in every interview, hopefully he got my point.

But in the end it's yet another example of the SWAMP.

How many well intentioned people go to DC either in politics or groups, and come back as a wishy wash marshmallow that always seems worried about "scratch"?

I felt like I was talking to Don Peay.

I decided long ago to support 2 groups. 1 for critters, one for land.

RMEF gets my critter money. I'm looking for a land group.

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
I have had some disagreements with you but my hats off too you.
Hoss you are a guy that stands for what you believe in.
 
Sucks. Years ago I jumped behind a group that was going to save the mule deer and give a voice to sportsmen. Thought I had found THE ORG finally after prop 5.

Not sure if money corrupted $FW, or if THE DON was just a great liar. Either way, they definitely ain't what they portrayed themselves.

Now BHA. All that yapping about "public land in public hands" I guess ends if there's a little coin, or a "in" with the climate crowd.

I can't imagine how pissed the miners and oil guys who signed on in deference to their own livelihoods because public is that important only to see Land hang them out to get in good with his climate crowd.

In the end it just sucks.

And it does nothing but make guys like us skeptics and non trusting. Which hurts the resource we love, public land or the animals on it.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>I can't imagine how pissed the
>miners and oil guys who
>signed on in deference to
>their own livelihoods because public
>is that important only to
>see Land hang them out
>to get in good with
>his climate crowd.

I can.
 
I usually don't comment on these threads.

But I can promise you that any miner or oil/gas guy that pays attention is pissed. I supported BHA and cannot believe they ?path? they have embarked on.

But with that said, there were people here that have been calling it, and they were correct. This is as big or bigger then the DON and his corruption I believe (used to support him too).

I am a Utah native and a miner. Fool me once shame on you......
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-19 AT 07:00PM (MST)[p]Sorry you got duped Hoss. I've probably been harder on you and them than anybody else here. I'm with you in that their mission statement is something I can get behind, but its been clear for awhile that they aren't who they pretend to be. They posted a cute story about being for any politician who stands for public lands. I just gave em the laughin emoji. They're nothing more than an arm of the democrat party. Hope you've killed a few this fall, good luck the rest of the season.

Grizz will be along shortly to tell us I changed your point of view. Set him straight for me wouldya?

#livelikezac
 
But Hoss?

I Thought You liked BHA?








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Weird, same thing I ran into....a couple years ago and called them out. Look at that group and all of the "heros" attached....Using the wildlife to make a living. Claiming to be the Average Joe and living a life off of chumps that believe it.
 
Thing is I don't feel I got duped. 99 % of the guys involved with it believe in the mantra. I still do.

But for years I've blasted guys in $fw for seeing what THE DON was doing and keeping their mouths shut.

I'm holding myself to the same standard.

I still like the concept of grabbing non traditional groups to help do the heavy lifting. I even still like letting Yvon burn cash on causes we share.

My bet, Land about crapped when the fallout over this bill hit. I've seen more explanations and Q&A on this one bill, than any.

He seems determined to follow in Wayne LaPierres footsteps.

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19 AT 00:51AM (MST)[p]BHA has made some errors lately that resulted in me notifying the Utah Chapter that I wouldn't be serving another term on their Board. This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the guys in the Utah Chapter, as they are hard hunting guys/gals that have more collective love for our sport than any other group of people I've been around. With that said, I don't feel it's appropriate to pile on, but I will say this...

After seeing how BHA runs from the top, and having personal conversations with National Leadership I've reached the following conclusions...

1. BHA is not some secret plan to infiltrate hunting by anti's. I've attended Leadership meetings, sat though training, spoke with sponsors, been to the National Rendezvous, hosted a University Symposium and more. The guys/gals I've come across have been more serious hunters than any other group I've been with (SFW, RMEF, Expo, SCI, et al). Frankly, the average BHA guy is young, fit, serious, and hunt hard... they'd put the average MMer to shame. It's basically a group of hardcore backcountry hunters, just as the name states.

2. The National Leadership is not corrupt, they're just unsophisticated. I've had the pleasure to meet some extremely impressive people in my day, the Leadership of BHA is not that. They're passionate, and maybe misguided, but they're not swindlers. I can't say this about the leadership of some other groups, though their members are largely dedicated, committed, and honest.

3. BHA is growing faster than they can control. I've seen their growth numbers and they're staggering. But it's causing growing pains. You'll often see a businessman recognize that the business he started is now larger than his own abilities and hire professionals to run it... that needs to happen here.

4. I'd recommend anybody who loves hunting attend a National BHA Rendezvous, the classes are excellent, the guys are great to shoot the breeze with, the sponsors are brands we love to support, the food is excellent, and there is plenty of beer if you're thirsty.

5. BHA needs to stick to their Mission Statement and avoid being a "hunting fraternity" that is focused on hanging out with other hunters. Their Pint Nights are basically a great way to meet other hunters and share stories but they need to focus on the greater threats to public land hunting rather than just an excuse to get together and hang out. Our country has founded by guys hanging out in pubs and drinking ale while talking about their passions, but it takes actual action to get something done.

6. I support BHA's concept of enlarging the hunting tent and bringing nontraditional new members. We will be outvoted if we continue to ostracize and exile ourselves and must be willing to look past differences to find common areas to work together. I reject the tinfoil hat crowd that bought into the easily-debunked "green decoy" crap; as BHA's poor decision on renewables doesn't come close to proving some deep conspiracy by environmentalists. And if it is a conspiracy, it's hugely unsuccessful because BHA doesn't yet carry nearly the clout to affect change... and thus never would've tipped their hand. Refer to my previous posts, the guys who made the decision screwed up and now have been forced to answer for it. If BHA was really a secret environmentalist org than all those hunter/members wouldn't be demanding answers from the leadership. That tinfoil hat just doesn't hold water.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THEY'VE OUTGROWN THEMSELVES AND NEED NEW LEADERSHIP! This has happened with virtually every company, organization, political party, etc...

Now it needs to happen with BHA.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19
>AT 00:51?AM (MST)
>
>BHA has made some errors lately
>that resulted in me notifying
>the Utah Chapter that I
>wouldn't be serving another term
>on their Board. This has
>ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with
>the guys in the Utah
>Chapter, as they are hard
>hunting guys/gals that have more
>collective love for our sport
>than any other group of
>people I've been around. With
>that said, I don't feel
>it's appropriate to pile on,
>but I will say this...
>
>
>After seeing how BHA runs from
>the top, and having personal
>conversations with National Leadership I've
>reached the following conclusions...
>
>1. BHA is not some secret
>plan to infiltrate hunting by
>anti's. I've attended Leadership meetings,
>sat though training, spoke with
>sponsors, been to the National
>Rendezvous, hosted a University Symposium
>and more. The guys/gals I've
>come across have been more
>serious hunters than any other
>group I've been with (SFW,
>RMEF, Expo, SCI, et al).
>Frankly, the average BHA guy
>is young, fit, serious, and
>hunt hard... they'd put the
>average MMer to shame. It's
>basically a group of hardcore
>backcountry hunters, just as the
>name states.
>
>2. The National Leadership is not
>corrupt, they're just unsophisticated. I've
>had the pleasure to meet
>some extremely impressive people in
>my day, the Leadership of
>BHA is not that. They're
>passionate, and maybe misguided, but
>they're not swindlers. I can't
>say this about the leadership
>of some other groups, though
>their members are largely dedicated,
>committed, and honest.
>
>3. BHA is growing faster than
>they can control. I've seen
>their growth numbers and they're
>staggering. But it's causing growing
>pains. You'll often see a
>businessman recognize that the business
>he started is now larger
>than his own abilities and
>hire professionals to run it...
>that needs to happen here.
>
>
>4. I'd recommend anybody who loves
>hunting attend a National BHA
>Rendezvous, the classes are excellent,
>the guys are great to
>shoot the breeze with, the
>sponsors are brands we love
>to support, the food is
>excellent, and there is plenty
>of beer if you're thirsty.
>
>
>5. BHA needs to stick to
>their Mission Statement and avoid
>being a "hunting fraternity" that
>is focused on hanging out
>with other hunters. Their Pint
>Nights are basically a great
>way to meet other hunters
>and share stories but they
>need to focus on the
>greater threats to public land
>hunting rather than just an
>excuse to get together and
>hang out. Our country has
>founded by guys hanging out
>in pubs and drinking ale
>while talking about their passions,
>but it takes actual action
>to get something done.
>
>6. I support BHA's concept of
>enlarging the hunting tent and
>bringing nontraditional new members. We
>will be outvoted if we
>continue to ostracize and exile
>ourselves and must be willing
>to look past differences to
>find common areas to work
>together. I reject the tinfoil
>hat crowd that bought into
>the easily-debunked "green decoy" crap;
>as BHA's poor decision on
>renewables doesn't come close to
>proving some deep conspiracy by
>environmentalists. And if it is
>a conspiracy, it's hugely unsuccessful
>because BHA doesn't yet carry
>nearly the clout to affect
>change... and thus never would've
>tipped their hand. Refer to
>my previous posts, the guys
>who made the decision screwed
>up and now have been
>forced to answer for it.
>If BHA was really a
>secret environmentalist org than all
>those hunter/members wouldn't be demanding
>answers from the leadership. That
>tinfoil hat just doesn't hold
>water.
>
>THE BOTTOM LINE IS THEY'VE OUTGROWN
>THEMSELVES AND NEED NEW LEADERSHIP!
>This has happened with virtually
>every company, organization, political party,
>etc...
>
>Now it needs to happen with
>BHA.

I can imagine a strong SFW supporter writing basically this exact same post, but with the ?we did get new leadership? instead of ?we need new leadership.? Funny how perspective guides our beliefs about something.

I mostly believe everything you said about rank and file members and what they want, but again, see SFW. And questioning the motives of those with questionable motives is not a tinfoil hat conspiracy. I know that's easy to say to make yourself feel better after defending these clowns so adamantly. But, questioning people with questionable motives is important to do.
 
grizzly who is BHA leadership states:

The guys/gals I've come across have been more serious hunters than any other group I've been with (SFW, RMEF, Expo, SCI, et al). Frankly, the average BHA guy is young, fit, serious, and hunt hard... they'd put the average MMer to shame.

Then later grizzly states:

I support BHA's concept of
>enlarging the hunting tent and
>bringing nontraditional new members.

So he's saying better than the sportsmen and women that have sat on committees and fought the fight for years. Pushing for not only open land but for the actual wildlife we pursue. But because they are young, fit and serious hard hunters they put all of those people to shame. Really? What has BHA done for our wildlife? How many dollars have they put into any wildlife save it be through channels built and maintained but these other groups they are putting to shame.

Then grizzly comments:

I support BHA's concept of
>enlarging the hunting tent and
>bringing nontraditional new members.

Ok so put down those that have given money, time and many years of their lives to preserve our hunting heritage and then turn around and support those that have traditionally fought against those people.

That pathetic post sums up the BHA and its attitude.

Im not posting because I am pro SFW or pro SCI or RMEF I am posting because BHA is an organization that does not long term show a healthy direction for our hunting heritage. A boutique organization built on the greatness of their own fumes.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19 AT 09:58AM (MST)[p]>I can imagine a strong SFW
>supporter writing basically this exact
>same post, but with the
>?we did get new leadership?
>instead of ?we need new
>leadership.? Funny how perspective guides
>our beliefs about something.
>
>I mostly believe everything you said
>about rank and file members
>and what they want, but
>again, see SFW. And questioning
>the motives of those with
>questionable motives is not a
>tinfoil hat conspiracy. I know
>that's easy to say to
>make yourself feel better after
>defending these clowns so adamantly.
>But, questioning people with questionable
>motives is important to do.
>

This isn't some deep-thinking Yoda-post of yours, SFW is one of the groups I was referring to with my final sentence...

This has happened with virtually every company, organization, political party, etc... Now it needs to happen with BHA.

The difference is the intellectual honesty required to say a group is not living up to their initial goal and need to do so, as well as calling them out publicly (and to their face) when change is needed. There is also 'standing' to criticize SFW by all utahns due to SFW getting government funds, tags, contracts, Wildlife Board placement, etc... If somebody doesn't like BHA, ignore them; SFW runs the show regardless of their corruption so everybody has a dog in the fight.

If there are SFW members ready to cancel their memberships or walk from their positions of leadership and publicly call for change... essentially, members who committed to the goal and not the group (like hoss has commendably done here) then they certainly weren't the guys on MM. Those guys just defended to death actions that were virtually indefensible, and we've got government records and audits to back it up. But you'll have to start a new thread if you want to get back into that because this isn't the place to do it.


Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19 AT 09:56AM (MST)[p]M73, that entire post I write and what you get out of it is insecurity about physical fitness?

I will 100% guarantee you, because I've been to all their national shows... The average BHA attendee puts more miles on their hunting boots in a year than those at SFW banquets, Expo, SCI, RMEF, etc... Sorry if that hurts your feelings but it's true.

And, yes, it is a younger group. That's their point... to grow the tent and recruit new people into hunting. I still support that concept.

(And get over yourself about "dollars"... it's government taxpayer welfare. Or what many would call "socialism" which may be the point of Don Peays comment below.)

Come to think about it, now would be a great time for you to call out DP for saying that!

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
grizzly,
You're the one putting other types of hunters to shame. It the language you use that shows the thought process of the group. Its been pointed out and you continue to validate it.

"get over yourself about dollars". I am talking dollars spent by the rank and file supporting groups that have worked to better wildlife. So no its not government taxpayer welfare.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19 AT 10:36AM (MST)[p]grizzly,
You talk about welfare but rely on the government for hunting? Without question privatized hunting will and should have a place. Look at many other countries, it's what keeps it alive. Look at the mismanagement by government agencies in many states. I'm not saying that it should overtake and displace public recourses but it does and will have a place.

I love that you shift focus to another group when BHA takes any heat. It's fine as again it shows that BHA doesn't really have anything to stand in it's merit.

Or does being fit and hunting hard make for better wildlife management?
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19
>>AT 00:51?AM (MST)
>>
>>BHA has made some errors lately
>>that resulted in me notifying
>>the Utah Chapter that I
>>wouldn't be serving another term
>>on their Board. This has
>>ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with
>>the guys in the Utah
>>Chapter, as they are hard
>>hunting guys/gals that have more
>>collective love for our sport
>>than any other group of
>>people I've been around. With
>>that said, I don't feel
>>it's appropriate to pile on,
>>but I will say this...
>>
>>
>>After seeing how BHA runs from
>>the top, and having personal
>>conversations with National Leadership I've
>>reached the following conclusions...
>>
>>1. BHA is not some secret
>>plan to infiltrate hunting by
>>anti's. I've attended Leadership meetings,
>>sat though training, spoke with
>>sponsors, been to the National
>>Rendezvous, hosted a University Symposium
>>and more. The guys/gals I've
>>come across have been more
>>serious hunters than any other
>>group I've been with (SFW,
>>RMEF, Expo, SCI, et al).
>>Frankly, the average BHA guy
>>is young, fit, serious, and
>>hunt hard... they'd put the
>>average MMer to shame. It's
>>basically a group of hardcore
>>backcountry hunters, just as the
>>name states.
>>
>>2. The National Leadership is not
>>corrupt, they're just unsophisticated. I've
>>had the pleasure to meet
>>some extremely impressive people in
>>my day, the Leadership of
>>BHA is not that. They're
>>passionate, and maybe misguided, but
>>they're not swindlers. I can't
>>say this about the leadership
>>of some other groups, though
>>their members are largely dedicated,
>>committed, and honest.
>>
>>3. BHA is growing faster than
>>they can control. I've seen
>>their growth numbers and they're
>>staggering. But it's causing growing
>>pains. You'll often see a
>>businessman recognize that the business
>>he started is now larger
>>than his own abilities and
>>hire professionals to run it...
>>that needs to happen here.
>>
>>
>>4. I'd recommend anybody who loves
>>hunting attend a National BHA
>>Rendezvous, the classes are excellent,
>>the guys are great to
>>shoot the breeze with, the
>>sponsors are brands we love
>>to support, the food is
>>excellent, and there is plenty
>>of beer if you're thirsty.
>>
>>
>>5. BHA needs to stick to
>>their Mission Statement and avoid
>>being a "hunting fraternity" that
>>is focused on hanging out
>>with other hunters. Their Pint
>>Nights are basically a great
>>way to meet other hunters
>>and share stories but they
>>need to focus on the
>>greater threats to public land
>>hunting rather than just an
>>excuse to get together and
>>hang out. Our country has
>>founded by guys hanging out
>>in pubs and drinking ale
>>while talking about their passions,
>>but it takes actual action
>>to get something done.
>>
>>6. I support BHA's concept of
>>enlarging the hunting tent and
>>bringing nontraditional new members. We
>>will be outvoted if we
>>continue to ostracize and exile
>>ourselves and must be willing
>>to look past differences to
>>find common areas to work
>>together. I reject the tinfoil
>>hat crowd that bought into
>>the easily-debunked "green decoy" crap;
>>as BHA's poor decision on
>>renewables doesn't come close to
>>proving some deep conspiracy by
>>environmentalists. And if it is
>>a conspiracy, it's hugely unsuccessful
>>because BHA doesn't yet carry
>>nearly the clout to affect
>>change... and thus never would've
>>tipped their hand. Refer to
>>my previous posts, the guys
>>who made the decision screwed
>>up and now have been
>>forced to answer for it.
>>If BHA was really a
>>secret environmentalist org than all
>>those hunter/members wouldn't be demanding
>>answers from the leadership. That
>>tinfoil hat just doesn't hold
>>water.
>>
>>THE BOTTOM LINE IS THEY'VE OUTGROWN
>>THEMSELVES AND NEED NEW LEADERSHIP!
>>This has happened with virtually
>>every company, organization, political party,
>>etc...
>>
>>Now it needs to happen with
>>BHA.
>
>I can imagine a strong SFW
>supporter writing basically this exact
>same post, but with the
>?we did get new leadership?
>instead of ?we need new
>leadership.? Funny how perspective guides
>our beliefs about something.
>
>I mostly believe everything you said
>about rank and file members
>and what they want, but
>again, see SFW. And questioning
>the motives of those with
>questionable motives is not a
>tinfoil hat conspiracy. I know
>that's easy to say to
>make yourself feel better after
>defending these clowns so adamantly.
>But, questioning people with questionable
>motives is important to do.
>


I agree with this.

But i will point out there was a guy in here who did split and point out the corruption in $fw.

And he was thrashed by the $fw followers.

Tony Abbott. FISHON.

DW. Here you are thrashing Grizz for months about his leadership and he hasn't been in that position since I posted months ago about leaving myself.

Beware. There are others who you assume similar about. You'd be wrong on them too.

I say so only to point out many still believe in the cause just not the leadership.

But notice. GRIZZ just publically pointed out that Land and Co need to go.

Other than Tony Abbot, where does this happen in $fw?

I've said for years the boots on the ground guys in $fw do great things, then turn around and watch THE DON and his ilk run their scam and say nothing.


I'll let other guys that I know have left, or are leaving speak for themselves. But notice that the 2 biggest mouths in here supporting BHA, have left and are publically calling for a change in leadership, and a return to their mission.

I don't believe Land was corrupted by money. I think his personal politics became too much a driver in his leadership.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19 AT 10:51AM (MST)[p]>grizzly,
>You're the one putting other types
>of hunters to shame.
>It the language you use
>that shows the thought process
>of the group. Its
>been pointed out and you
>continue to validate it.
>
> "get over yourself about dollars".
> I am talking dollars
>spent by the rank and
>file supporting groups that have
>worked to better wildlife.
>So no its not government
>taxpayer welfare.

If the money is from government contracts, tags, grants, etc... then it's welfare money (which we know is in the many of millions). The donations from the members are excellent!

You being unwilling to call out SFW/DP for their attempts to privatize wildlife perfectly proves my point to Vanilla. The SFW guys aren't calling out SFW, they're more committed to the group than the goal. And therein lies the problem with SFW and why it's the same corrupt organization today that it has been for years. Oh, how I yearn for the original SFW that we started with!

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
So what I see... BHA is a a group of young macho environmental elitist, who think that they are above all hunters because they hike harder?

What will happen to these guys as they age and knees go bad, etc. Hell the attitude elitist mentality from the very person defending the group is an indication with the underlying issue in the group.

Again where does the BHA money go to support wildlife? I again agree with their mission statement but the mentality of the leadership and the apparent superiority complex they have does not fit for the vast majority of hunters.

Remember they log more miles and are much better and superior hunters than anyone in RMEF, SCI, etc.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19
>AT 00:51?AM (MST)
>
>BHA has made some errors lately
>that resulted in me notifying
>the Utah Chapter that I
>wouldn't be serving another term
>on their Board. This has
>ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with
>the guys in the Utah
>Chapter, as they are hard
>hunting guys/gals that have more
>collective love for our sport
>than any other group of
>people I've been around. With
>that said, I don't feel
>it's appropriate to pile on,
>but I will say this...
>
>
>After seeing how BHA runs from
>the top, and having personal
>conversations with National Leadership I've
>reached the following conclusions...
>
>1. BHA is not some secret
>plan to infiltrate hunting by
>anti's. I've attended Leadership meetings,
>sat though training, spoke with
>sponsors, been to the National
>Rendezvous, hosted a University Symposium
>and more. The guys/gals I've
>come across have been more
>serious hunters than any other
>group I've been with (SFW,
>RMEF, Expo, SCI, et al).
>Frankly, the average BHA guy
>is young, fit, serious, and
>hunt hard... they'd put the
>average MMer to shame. It's
>basically a group of hardcore
>backcountry hunters, just as the
>name states.
>
>2. The National Leadership is not
>corrupt, they're just unsophisticated. I've
>had the pleasure to meet
>some extremely impressive people in
>my day, the Leadership of
>BHA is not that. They're
>passionate, and maybe misguided, but
>they're not swindlers. I can't
>say this about the leadership
>of some other groups, though
>their members are largely dedicated,
>committed, and honest.
>
>3. BHA is growing faster than
>they can control. I've seen
>their growth numbers and they're
>staggering. But it's causing growing
>pains. You'll often see a
>businessman recognize that the business
>he started is now larger
>than his own abilities and
>hire professionals to run it...
>that needs to happen here.
>
>
>4. I'd recommend anybody who loves
>hunting attend a National BHA
>Rendezvous, the classes are excellent,
>the guys are great to
>shoot the breeze with, the
>sponsors are brands we love
>to support, the food is
>excellent, and there is plenty
>of beer if you're thirsty.
>
>
>5. BHA needs to stick to
>their Mission Statement and avoid
>being a "hunting fraternity" that
>is focused on hanging out
>with other hunters. Their Pint
>Nights are basically a great
>way to meet other hunters
>and share stories but they
>need to focus on the
>greater threats to public land
>hunting rather than just an
>excuse to get together and
>hang out. Our country has
>founded by guys hanging out
>in pubs and drinking ale
>while talking about their passions,
>but it takes actual action
>to get something done.
>
>6. I support BHA's concept of
>enlarging the hunting tent and
>bringing nontraditional new members. We
>will be outvoted if we
>continue to ostracize and exile
>ourselves and must be willing
>to look past differences to
>find common areas to work
>together. I reject the tinfoil
>hat crowd that bought into
>the easily-debunked "green decoy" crap;
>as BHA's poor decision on
>renewables doesn't come close to
>proving some deep conspiracy by
>environmentalists. And if it is
>a conspiracy, it's hugely unsuccessful
>because BHA doesn't yet carry
>nearly the clout to affect
>change... and thus never would've
>tipped their hand. Refer to
>my previous posts, the guys
>who made the decision screwed
>up and now have been
>forced to answer for it.
>If BHA was really a
>secret environmentalist org than all
>those hunter/members wouldn't be demanding
>answers from the leadership. That
>tinfoil hat just doesn't hold
>water.
>
>THE BOTTOM LINE IS THEY'VE OUTGROWN
>THEMSELVES AND NEED NEW LEADERSHIP!
>This has happened with virtually
>every company, organization, political party,
>etc...
>
>Now it needs to happen with
>BHA.


A bigger condescending pile of bullchit I've never seen. You can go back to the greendecoy defense all you want, so far in this thread you're the only one to bring it up. The problem is right in your post by those on the outside who've read it. That and the constant denial of simply being an arm of the democratic party. When you find yourself in a hole the first thing you should do is put down the shovel!

#livelikezac
 
I'm 46.
Randy Newberg is mid 50's
Rinella is roughly my age.
Calahan is the same.

That "hardcore" attitude is true, but it's often aimed at critics such as the "green decoy" bunch to point out they actually do it, as opposed to sit in an office in DC.

To be fair, you can't criticize the hard core aspect, then say all they do is drink beer. The two are opposites.

I don't think they are exclusive to BHA. Thats part of the Instagram generation. I lifted my truck, these guys pound supplements. Both were to show off.

My irritation gets exposed in this thread.

Nearly every guy commenting, hunts, camps, fishes, public land. It's under assault. Yet we all, along with bikers, hikers, kayakers, etc have been burned so much we snipe each other rather than those who are assaulting the land we all love.

The mussion of BHA was to unite around stopping the assault. Now, because of leadership(Land Tawney particularly) is adding to the sideshow.

And while that goes on,


CHIP, CHIP, CHIP at what we love.

That's what pizzes me off

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19
>>AT 00:51?AM (MST)
>>
>>BHA has made some errors lately
>>that resulted in me notifying
>>the Utah Chapter that I
>>wouldn't be serving another term
>>on their Board. This has
>>ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with
>>the guys in the Utah
>>Chapter, as they are hard
>>hunting guys/gals that have more
>>collective love for our sport
>>than any other group of
>>people I've been around. With
>>that said, I don't feel
>>it's appropriate to pile on,
>>but I will say this...
>>
>>
>>After seeing how BHA runs from
>>the top, and having personal
>>conversations with National Leadership I've
>>reached the following conclusions...
>>
>>1. BHA is not some secret
>>plan to infiltrate hunting by
>>anti's. I've attended Leadership meetings,
>>sat though training, spoke with
>>sponsors, been to the National
>>Rendezvous, hosted a University Symposium
>>and more. The guys/gals I've
>>come across have been more
>>serious hunters than any other
>>group I've been with (SFW,
>>RMEF, Expo, SCI, et al).
>>Frankly, the average BHA guy
>>is young, fit, serious, and
>>hunt hard... they'd put the
>>average MMer to shame. It's
>>basically a group of hardcore
>>backcountry hunters, just as the
>>name states.
>>
>>2. The National Leadership is not
>>corrupt, they're just unsophisticated. I've
>>had the pleasure to meet
>>some extremely impressive people in
>>my day, the Leadership of
>>BHA is not that. They're
>>passionate, and maybe misguided, but
>>they're not swindlers. I can't
>>say this about the leadership
>>of some other groups, though
>>their members are largely dedicated,
>>committed, and honest.
>>
>>3. BHA is growing faster than
>>they can control. I've seen
>>their growth numbers and they're
>>staggering. But it's causing growing
>>pains. You'll often see a
>>businessman recognize that the business
>>he started is now larger
>>than his own abilities and
>>hire professionals to run it...
>>that needs to happen here.
>>
>>
>>4. I'd recommend anybody who loves
>>hunting attend a National BHA
>>Rendezvous, the classes are excellent,
>>the guys are great to
>>shoot the breeze with, the
>>sponsors are brands we love
>>to support, the food is
>>excellent, and there is plenty
>>of beer if you're thirsty.
>>
>>
>>5. BHA needs to stick to
>>their Mission Statement and avoid
>>being a "hunting fraternity" that
>>is focused on hanging out
>>with other hunters. Their Pint
>>Nights are basically a great
>>way to meet other hunters
>>and share stories but they
>>need to focus on the
>>greater threats to public land
>>hunting rather than just an
>>excuse to get together and
>>hang out. Our country has
>>founded by guys hanging out
>>in pubs and drinking ale
>>while talking about their passions,
>>but it takes actual action
>>to get something done.
>>
>>6. I support BHA's concept of
>>enlarging the hunting tent and
>>bringing nontraditional new members. We
>>will be outvoted if we
>>continue to ostracize and exile
>>ourselves and must be willing
>>to look past differences to
>>find common areas to work
>>together. I reject the tinfoil
>>hat crowd that bought into
>>the easily-debunked "green decoy" crap;
>>as BHA's poor decision on
>>renewables doesn't come close to
>>proving some deep conspiracy by
>>environmentalists. And if it is
>>a conspiracy, it's hugely unsuccessful
>>because BHA doesn't yet carry
>>nearly the clout to affect
>>change... and thus never would've
>>tipped their hand. Refer to
>>my previous posts, the guys
>>who made the decision screwed
>>up and now have been
>>forced to answer for it.
>>If BHA was really a
>>secret environmentalist org than all
>>those hunter/members wouldn't be demanding
>>answers from the leadership. That
>>tinfoil hat just doesn't hold
>>water.
>>
>>THE BOTTOM LINE IS THEY'VE OUTGROWN
>>THEMSELVES AND NEED NEW LEADERSHIP!
>>This has happened with virtually
>>every company, organization, political party,
>>etc...
>>
>>Now it needs to happen with
>>BHA.
>
>
>A bigger condescending pile of bullchit
>I've never seen. You can
>go back to the greendecoy
>defense all you want, so
>far in this thread you're
>the only one to bring
>it up. The problem is
>right in your post by
>those on the outside who've
>read it. That and the
>constant denial of simply being
>an arm of the democratic
>party. When you find yourself
>in a hole the first
>thing you should do is
>put down the shovel!
>
>#livelikezac


And just like that DW writes of 40% of the country, and therefore all the hunters in them.

What the he'll does D vs R have to do with land? The very reason I'm on Tawney is because he leads a group that preaches the preservation of public is the goal and to do so we need to focus on that.

Then he lets his personal politics get in the way.


DW. Here's a news flash. Democrats hunt. They fish. They own guns.

I've read as you blasted Grizz on BHA for months. I knew all the while he had removed himself, he's just quieter than i am. You've been wrong for months. Incorrect for months. Your "Republican" bias is as stupid as the bias you accuse others having.

Dont forget. Mitt Romney is a Republican. How's that working out? Trump was a lifelong Democrat, how's that going?

Last. WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH PRESERVING PUBLIC LAND?


Land Tawney a dem, pushed a bill to develop public land in exchange "for scratch" that A REPUBLICAN interior secretary has discretion on.

They are equal opportunity offenders.

Ya, I know. Some dude 20 years ago supported banning bear hunting. He's a lib. Libs are idiots.

Mitt Romney just joined the "climate caucus", guess since he's a good R, now climate change is real?

Moronic.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19
>>>AT 00:51?AM (MST)
>>>
>>>BHA has made some errors lately
>>>that resulted in me notifying
>>>the Utah Chapter that I
>>>wouldn't be serving another term
>>>on their Board. This has
>>>ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with
>>>the guys in the Utah
>>>Chapter, as they are hard
>>>hunting guys/gals that have more
>>>collective love for our sport
>>>than any other group of
>>>people I've been around. With
>>>that said, I don't feel
>>>it's appropriate to pile on,
>>>but I will say this...
>>>
>>>
>>>After seeing how BHA runs from
>>>the top, and having personal
>>>conversations with National Leadership I've
>>>reached the following conclusions...
>>>
>>>1. BHA is not some secret
>>>plan to infiltrate hunting by
>>>anti's. I've attended Leadership meetings,
>>>sat though training, spoke with
>>>sponsors, been to the National
>>>Rendezvous, hosted a University Symposium
>>>and more. The guys/gals I've
>>>come across have been more
>>>serious hunters than any other
>>>group I've been with (SFW,
>>>RMEF, Expo, SCI, et al).
>>>Frankly, the average BHA guy
>>>is young, fit, serious, and
>>>hunt hard... they'd put the
>>>average MMer to shame. It's
>>>basically a group of hardcore
>>>backcountry hunters, just as the
>>>name states.
>>>
>>>2. The National Leadership is not
>>>corrupt, they're just unsophisticated. I've
>>>had the pleasure to meet
>>>some extremely impressive people in
>>>my day, the Leadership of
>>>BHA is not that. They're
>>>passionate, and maybe misguided, but
>>>they're not swindlers. I can't
>>>say this about the leadership
>>>of some other groups, though
>>>their members are largely dedicated,
>>>committed, and honest.
>>>
>>>3. BHA is growing faster than
>>>they can control. I've seen
>>>their growth numbers and they're
>>>staggering. But it's causing growing
>>>pains. You'll often see a
>>>businessman recognize that the business
>>>he started is now larger
>>>than his own abilities and
>>>hire professionals to run it...
>>>that needs to happen here.
>>>
>>>
>>>4. I'd recommend anybody who loves
>>>hunting attend a National BHA
>>>Rendezvous, the classes are excellent,
>>>the guys are great to
>>>shoot the breeze with, the
>>>sponsors are brands we love
>>>to support, the food is
>>>excellent, and there is plenty
>>>of beer if you're thirsty.
>>>
>>>
>>>5. BHA needs to stick to
>>>their Mission Statement and avoid
>>>being a "hunting fraternity" that
>>>is focused on hanging out
>>>with other hunters. Their Pint
>>>Nights are basically a great
>>>way to meet other hunters
>>>and share stories but they
>>>need to focus on the
>>>greater threats to public land
>>>hunting rather than just an
>>>excuse to get together and
>>>hang out. Our country has
>>>founded by guys hanging out
>>>in pubs and drinking ale
>>>while talking about their passions,
>>>but it takes actual action
>>>to get something done.
>>>
>>>6. I support BHA's concept of
>>>enlarging the hunting tent and
>>>bringing nontraditional new members. We
>>>will be outvoted if we
>>>continue to ostracize and exile
>>>ourselves and must be willing
>>>to look past differences to
>>>find common areas to work
>>>together. I reject the tinfoil
>>>hat crowd that bought into
>>>the easily-debunked "green decoy" crap;
>>>as BHA's poor decision on
>>>renewables doesn't come close to
>>>proving some deep conspiracy by
>>>environmentalists. And if it is
>>>a conspiracy, it's hugely unsuccessful
>>>because BHA doesn't yet carry
>>>nearly the clout to affect
>>>change... and thus never would've
>>>tipped their hand. Refer to
>>>my previous posts, the guys
>>>who made the decision screwed
>>>up and now have been
>>>forced to answer for it.
>>>If BHA was really a
>>>secret environmentalist org than all
>>>those hunter/members wouldn't be demanding
>>>answers from the leadership. That
>>>tinfoil hat just doesn't hold
>>>water.
>>>
>>>THE BOTTOM LINE IS THEY'VE OUTGROWN
>>>THEMSELVES AND NEED NEW LEADERSHIP!
>>>This has happened with virtually
>>>every company, organization, political party,
>>>etc...
>>>
>>>Now it needs to happen with
>>>BHA.
>>
>>
>>A bigger condescending pile of bullchit
>>I've never seen. You can
>>go back to the greendecoy
>>defense all you want, so
>>far in this thread you're
>>the only one to bring
>>it up. The problem is
>>right in your post by
>>those on the outside who've
>>read it. That and the
>>constant denial of simply being
>>an arm of the democratic
>>party. When you find yourself
>>in a hole the first
>>thing you should do is
>>put down the shovel!
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>
>And just like that DW writes
>of 40% of the country,
>and therefore all the hunters
>in them.
>

I know we run in different circles. The only D hunters I've come across were at a pint night at one of my waterin holes.



>What the he'll does D vs
>R have to do with
>land? The very reason
>I'm on Tawney is because
>he leads a group that
>preaches the preservation of public
>is the goal and to
>do so we need to
>focus on that.
>
>Then he lets his personal politics
>get in the way.
>
>
>DW. Here's a news flash.
> Democrats hunt. They
>fish. They own guns.
>
>
>I've read as you blasted Grizz
>on BHA for months.
>I knew all the while
>he had removed himself, he's
>just quieter than i am.
> You've been wrong for
>months. Incorrect for months.

Wrong about what? Who gives a chit what spot you hold? So he's not on the board, BFD.


> Your "Republican" bias is
>as stupid as the bias
>you accuse others having.
>
>Dont forget. Mitt Romney is
>a Republican. How's that
>working out? Trump was
>a lifelong Democrat, how's that
>going?
>

Mitts R stands for rino. You and flounder seem to be the only 2 that don't see that. Trump came to his senses and #walkedaway. Our debt is my only complaint over the past couple years.


>Last. WHAT THE HELL DOES
>THAT HAVE TO DO WITH
>PRESERVING PUBLIC LAND?
>
>
>Land Tawney a dem, pushed a
>bill to develop public land
>in exchange "for scratch" that
>A REPUBLICAN interior secretary has
>discretion on.
>
>They are equal opportunity offenders.
>
>Ya, I know. Some dude
>20 years ago supported banning
>bear hunting. He's a
>lib. Libs are idiots.
>
>
>Mitt Romney just joined the "climate
>caucus", guess since he's a
>good R, now climate change
>is real?
>
>Moronic.
>

Agree, your rant is moronic, he's a RINO!


>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.


And since grizz mentioned greendecoy, doesn't the fact that they despise any extraction on public land yet lick themselves silly when somebody wants to turn public lands into wind farms and solar fields epitomize the greendecoy title?


#livelikezac
 
My whole problem with BHA is I have yet to hear anything good that they have did. They have great words but nothing put on the ground. Say what you want about the SFW, RMEF, MDF they have good PR people that promote the good about what is being done on the ground, BHA is terrible at PR atleast for the average hunter in the mountain states perspective. When you have guys like grizz constantly running down other organizations and then he makes claims at how superior BHA hunters are because they hunt the way he hunts. When grizz constantly compares legal means of hunting that some other hunters enjoy practicing to unethical it is not good PR from a organization outspoken member/chapter representative.
Hoss now you do not want to talk about politics in the discussion but it was ok for you the last six months too claim every Republican as public land haters and ALL REPUBLICANS care about is filling there coffers with cash by taking control of ALL PUBLIC LANDS AND SELLING IT TO THERE ULTRA RICH FRIENDS.
My advice when you get involved with another organization forget about SFW there success or failure has nothing to do with your success or failure.
Fishon is not on here running down SFW he is out there promoting positive things about his hunting expo the Big Show, getting hunters excited about supporting him.
 
>>>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19
>>>>AT 00:51?AM (MST)
>>>>
>>>>BHA has made some errors lately
>>>>that resulted in me notifying
>>>>the Utah Chapter that I
>>>>wouldn't be serving another term
>>>>on their Board. This has
>>>>ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with
>>>>the guys in the Utah
>>>>Chapter, as they are hard
>>>>hunting guys/gals that have more
>>>>collective love for our sport
>>>>than any other group of
>>>>people I've been around. With
>>>>that said, I don't feel
>>>>it's appropriate to pile on,
>>>>but I will say this...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>After seeing how BHA runs from
>>>>the top, and having personal
>>>>conversations with National Leadership I've
>>>>reached the following conclusions...
>>>>
>>>>1. BHA is not some secret
>>>>plan to infiltrate hunting by
>>>>anti's. I've attended Leadership meetings,
>>>>sat though training, spoke with
>>>>sponsors, been to the National
>>>>Rendezvous, hosted a University Symposium
>>>>and more. The guys/gals I've
>>>>come across have been more
>>>>serious hunters than any other
>>>>group I've been with (SFW,
>>>>RMEF, Expo, SCI, et al).
>>>>Frankly, the average BHA guy
>>>>is young, fit, serious, and
>>>>hunt hard... they'd put the
>>>>average MMer to shame. It's
>>>>basically a group of hardcore
>>>>backcountry hunters, just as the
>>>>name states.
>>>>
>>>>2. The National Leadership is not
>>>>corrupt, they're just unsophisticated. I've
>>>>had the pleasure to meet
>>>>some extremely impressive people in
>>>>my day, the Leadership of
>>>>BHA is not that. They're
>>>>passionate, and maybe misguided, but
>>>>they're not swindlers. I can't
>>>>say this about the leadership
>>>>of some other groups, though
>>>>their members are largely dedicated,
>>>>committed, and honest.
>>>>
>>>>3. BHA is growing faster than
>>>>they can control. I've seen
>>>>their growth numbers and they're
>>>>staggering. But it's causing growing
>>>>pains. You'll often see a
>>>>businessman recognize that the business
>>>>he started is now larger
>>>>than his own abilities and
>>>>hire professionals to run it...
>>>>that needs to happen here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>4. I'd recommend anybody who loves
>>>>hunting attend a National BHA
>>>>Rendezvous, the classes are excellent,
>>>>the guys are great to
>>>>shoot the breeze with, the
>>>>sponsors are brands we love
>>>>to support, the food is
>>>>excellent, and there is plenty
>>>>of beer if you're thirsty.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>5. BHA needs to stick to
>>>>their Mission Statement and avoid
>>>>being a "hunting fraternity" that
>>>>is focused on hanging out
>>>>with other hunters. Their Pint
>>>>Nights are basically a great
>>>>way to meet other hunters
>>>>and share stories but they
>>>>need to focus on the
>>>>greater threats to public land
>>>>hunting rather than just an
>>>>excuse to get together and
>>>>hang out. Our country has
>>>>founded by guys hanging out
>>>>in pubs and drinking ale
>>>>while talking about their passions,
>>>>but it takes actual action
>>>>to get something done.
>>>>
>>>>6. I support BHA's concept of
>>>>enlarging the hunting tent and
>>>>bringing nontraditional new members. We
>>>>will be outvoted if we
>>>>continue to ostracize and exile
>>>>ourselves and must be willing
>>>>to look past differences to
>>>>find common areas to work
>>>>together. I reject the tinfoil
>>>>hat crowd that bought into
>>>>the easily-debunked "green decoy" crap;
>>>>as BHA's poor decision on
>>>>renewables doesn't come close to
>>>>proving some deep conspiracy by
>>>>environmentalists. And if it is
>>>>a conspiracy, it's hugely unsuccessful
>>>>because BHA doesn't yet carry
>>>>nearly the clout to affect
>>>>change... and thus never would've
>>>>tipped their hand. Refer to
>>>>my previous posts, the guys
>>>>who made the decision screwed
>>>>up and now have been
>>>>forced to answer for it.
>>>>If BHA was really a
>>>>secret environmentalist org than all
>>>>those hunter/members wouldn't be demanding
>>>>answers from the leadership. That
>>>>tinfoil hat just doesn't hold
>>>>water.
>>>>
>>>>THE BOTTOM LINE IS THEY'VE OUTGROWN
>>>>THEMSELVES AND NEED NEW LEADERSHIP!
>>>>This has happened with virtually
>>>>every company, organization, political party,
>>>>etc...
>>>>
>>>>Now it needs to happen with
>>>>BHA.
>>>
>>>
>>>A bigger condescending pile of bullchit
>>>I've never seen. You can
>>>go back to the greendecoy
>>>defense all you want, so
>>>far in this thread you're
>>>the only one to bring
>>>it up. The problem is
>>>right in your post by
>>>those on the outside who've
>>>read it. That and the
>>>constant denial of simply being
>>>an arm of the democratic
>>>party. When you find yourself
>>>in a hole the first
>>>thing you should do is
>>>put down the shovel!
>>>
>>>#livelikezac
>>
>>
>>And just like that DW writes
>>of 40% of the country,
>>and therefore all the hunters
>>in them.
>>
>
>I know we run in different
>circles. The only D hunters
>I've come across were at
>a pint night at one
>of my waterin holes.
>
>
>
>>What the he'll does D vs
>>R have to do with
>>land? The very reason
>>I'm on Tawney is because
>>he leads a group that
>>preaches the preservation of public
>>is the goal and to
>>do so we need to
>>focus on that.
>>
>>Then he lets his personal politics
>>get in the way.
>>
>>
>>DW. Here's a news flash.
>> Democrats hunt. They
>>fish. They own guns.
>>
>>
>>I've read as you blasted Grizz
>>on BHA for months.
>>I knew all the while
>>he had removed himself, he's
>>just quieter than i am.
>> You've been wrong for
>>months. Incorrect for months.
>
>Wrong about what? Who gives a
>chit what spot you hold?
>So he's not on the
>board, BFD.
>
>
>> Your "Republican" bias is
>>as stupid as the bias
>>you accuse others having.
>>
>>Dont forget. Mitt Romney is
>>a Republican. How's that
>>working out? Trump was
>>a lifelong Democrat, how's that
>>going?
>>
>
>Mitts R stands for rino. You
>and flounder seem to be
>the only 2 that don't
>see that. Trump came to
>his senses and #walkedaway. Our
>debt is my only complaint
>over the past couple years.
>
>
>
>>Last. WHAT THE HELL DOES
>>THAT HAVE TO DO WITH
>>PRESERVING PUBLIC LAND?
>>
>>
>>Land Tawney a dem, pushed a
>>bill to develop public land
>>in exchange "for scratch" that
>>A REPUBLICAN interior secretary has
>>discretion on.
>>
>>They are equal opportunity offenders.
>>
>>Ya, I know. Some dude
>>20 years ago supported banning
>>bear hunting. He's a
>>lib. Libs are idiots.
>>
>>
>>Mitt Romney just joined the "climate
>>caucus", guess since he's a
>>good R, now climate change
>>is real?
>>
>>Moronic.
>>
>
>Agree, your rant is moronic, he's
>a RINO!
>
>
>>
>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>
>
>And since grizz mentioned greendecoy, doesn't
>the fact that they despise
>any extraction on public land
>yet lick themselves silly when
>somebody wants to turn public
>lands into wind farms and
>solar fields epitomize the greendecoy
>title?
>
>
>#livelikezac


It feeds the perception. Absolutely! Thus my issue. Thus the reason you don't drag 50k members into a rabbit hole.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>My whole problem with BHA is
>I have yet to hear
>anything good that they have
>did. They have great words
>but nothing put on the
>ground. Say what you want
>about the SFW, RMEF, MDF
>they have good PR people
>that promote the good about
>what is being done on
>the ground, BHA is terrible
>at PR atleast for the
>average hunter in the mountain
>states perspective. When you have
>guys like grizz constantly running
>down other organizations and then
>he makes claims at how
>superior BHA hunters are because
>they hunt the way he
>hunts. When grizz constantly compares
>legal means of hunting that
>some other hunters enjoy practicing
>to unethical it is not
>good PR from a organization
>outspoken member/chapter representative.
>Hoss now you do not want
>to talk about politics in
>the discussion but it was
>ok for you the last
>six months too claim every
>Republican as public land haters
>and ALL REPUBLICANS care about
>is filling there coffers with
>cash by taking control of
>ALL PUBLIC LANDS AND SELLING
>IT TO THERE ULTRA RICH
>FRIENDS.
>My advice when you get involved
>with another organization forget about
>SFW there success or failure
>has nothing to do with
>your success or failure.
>Fishon is not on here running
>down SFW he is out
>there promoting positive things about
>his hunting expo the Big
>Show, getting hunters excited about
>supporting him.


Yup. I did. But only because dems don't have a plank in their platform to sell it off.

In other words, the dems haven't found a way to profit from transfer, or they would be all over it.

Mike Lee is the "leader", he's a R. Pretty simple.


As to $fw. They are a paid contractor by the state of Utah. No different than Parsons or Clyde. They get paid to do work.

Other then MDF no other group is similar.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hoss I always owned Fords my family always owned Fords and then I had some friends who told me nothing but bad stuff about Fords, never did they really tell me anything about GMC or Chevrolet just bad things about Fords so I bought a GMC like they had that was 10 years ago I just bought a new Ford at least a Ford had something good about them.
 
>Hoss I always owned Fords my
>family always owned Fords and
>then I had some friends
>who told me nothing but
>bad stuff about Fords, never
>did they really tell me
>anything about GMC or Chevrolet
>just bad things about Fords
>so I bought a GMC
>like they had that was
>10 years ago I just
>bought a new Ford at
>least a Ford had something
>good about them.


As small as they are I doubt they have near the money of the others. They also got no conservation tags.

I know there was landlocked ground in new Mexico they opened. Few others.

That newness is why I hope the clap back to get them back on track will work.

Be honest. If you knew then what $fw would become wouldn't you have tried to change that direction why you could. Thats my hope with BHA.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Is this a good time to remind you how many times the two of you have told us no one was coming for our guns? Have you listened to every dem presidential candidate?
Denial ain't just a river in Africa.


#livelikezac
 
Hoss I meant what I said earlier on in this thread I am not trying to disrespect you.
I am not a member of SFW because I chose not to be. I have no problems with them getting 200+ conservation tags, I have no problem with Don or Byron or who ever else gets paid a million dollars from SFW coffers my problem with the SFW is the lack of transparency they should open there books after Don said they would.
I do go to the Western Hunting Expo because again I chose too I fell them permits are the peoples of Utah and other states so I should have a right to receive one as much as anyone else and it is free to donate your five dollars to the draw you do not have too go into the Expo.
I choose to go into the Expo because it is a good time too see all the hunting and outdoor products.
I have no problem with whatever stance someone wants to take as long as they are upfront about it and if they are upfront about their stance then I CAN MAKE A CHOICE IF I WANT TO SUPPORT THEM.
I have said to many friends I could set down and brake bread with Bernie Sanders not because I agree with him but because he is honest and upfront on his positions however foolish they are. If I saw Hillary walking without a coat on the side of the road 30 miles from the next town and it was in the middle of a blizzard I would not even stop too give her a ride ( I know pretty unchristian of me but then there has only been one perfect man on earth )
We only need too see what happened on the political thread with founder he took a big risk with making his stance on President Trump but with founder making that stance allowed me too make a choice and I obviously choose too continue too support this site it does not mean I support his beliefs but I have no problems with his beliefs. My choose.
Like i posted earlier you do not see fishion on this site running SFW and MDF down and he probably has the ammo to do damage, no he is promoting his vision and agenda, that is kind of admirable.
Sorry a little long and maybe off subject but I am tired of hearing on every post lately the name calling and how stupid someone is because they have a different opinion.
Starting with me, we all need too get over are self.
 
>Is this a good time to
>remind you how many times
>the two of you have
>told us no one was
>coming for our guns? Have
>you listened to every dem
>presidential candidate?
>Denial ain't just a river in
>Africa.
>
>
>#livelikezac

Do I need to remind you that the only federal gun control enacted in the last two decades was an executive order seizing lawfully-owned firearms from law-abiding citizens that was unilaterally ordered and signed by your Dear Leader?

Wise Up!

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>>Is this a good time to
>>remind you how many times
>>the two of you have
>>told us no one was
>>coming for our guns? Have
>>you listened to every dem
>>presidential candidate?
>>Denial ain't just a river in
>>Africa.
>>
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>Do I need to remind you
>that the only federal gun
>control enacted in the last
>two decades was an executive
>order seizing lawfully-owned firearms from
>law-abiding citizens that was unilaterally
>ordered and signed by your
>Dear Leader?
>
>Wise Up!
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>Ask yourself if you agree with
>the following statement...
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>

He band a piece of plastic. Thats a long ways from the rhetoric coming from the current crop of dem candidates.


#livelikezac
 
>He band a piece of plastic.
>Thats a long ways from
>the rhetoric coming from the
>current crop of dem candidates.
>
>
>
>#livelikezac

I believe the Dems current campaign promise on taking our guns to the same degree I believed Trump when he said Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Or that he would even build it.
 
>He band a piece of plastic.
>Thats a long ways from
>the rhetoric coming from the
>current crop of dem candidates.
>
>
>
>#livelikezac

Trump specifically declared bump stocks a "firearm" as was necessary to make them subject to the NFA. They may be a "piece of plastic" but an AR-15 is just a "piece of metal".

The dishonesty of your slippery slope fears only applying to Dems is terrifying! You've been tricked by a lifelong Democrat and Clinton/Rahm Emanuel/Kamala Harris-supporter into letting him seize people's firearms without passing legislation or due process or compensation. Its sad what happens when people become partisan ideologues rather than independent thinkers, they open themselves up to deception. The comparative here is the very reason hoss and I left BHA... because we see things through both eyes and are willing to call out those we previously supported when it needs to be done.

If we were nothing more than sheep, we'd be forced to defend their actions just because of the letters of their names... kind of like people who claim to be a Republican supporting a Democrat running up trillion dollar deficits, enlarging the government, artificially controlling the economy, seizing guns, closing free trade, preaching isolationist policies, etc... The true RINO in the room is sitting in the White House going against everything you previously believed in while your pot of water slowly heats to a rolling boil. And you're so blinded by the letters after the name that you can't even see you're justifying gun control by calling it a "piece of plastic".

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Grizz I am not a Trumpster I did not vote for him i will openly admit to that and I still think he is not a good person but I will admit what he has done for this country at this time has been positive. He is probably the only man in this country that can handle the venomous rhetoric that the Left is throwing at anyone that opposes the transformation of this country into the far Left agenda. When the Democtatic leaders will let women lie about a Supreme Court Justice nominee to Congress and they know they were lying there is no way the left can be trusted after that. I know you will not see it the way I see it and that is fine but you really need too be careful at calling the kettle black.
GRIZZ you have such a open mind that you are willing to accept men and women for what they want to be and live the life they want without interference from the bad Christians and the Right wing crazies but you are not open to let men and women to hunt by legal means because it is not the way you hunt it is what you classify as UNETHICAL and don't give me that crap about, that is what other states classify as unethical I do not live in other states I live in Utah. You are more than welcome to try and change the law i have no problem with that but until then it is ethical. Open minded people could see that.
But please answer this question if Trump is so far left as you say then why is the Democrats so obsessed with destroying him and getting him impeached?
If they are successful in getting him impeached Mike Pence becomes President and if Trump is a Democrat in sheeps clothing according to you then Mike Pence is extreme Right wing because he difently is Right of Trump.
Back on point about guns do you honestly believe if anyone of the Democratic candidates running right now won the Presidency and had both the Senate and the House that there would not be some dramatic gun control laws?
Please grizz answer the questions honestly
 
Pile of ya buts. How long have many of us been telling you these guys ain't who they claim? A simple you guys were right would suffice. Character is revealed more often than its built. Vanilla, you ever get that apology? Guessin you didn't.


#livelikezac
 
>Pile of ya buts. How long
>have many of us been
>telling you these guys ain't
>who they claim? A simple
>you guys were right would
>suffice. Character is revealed more
>often than its built. Vanilla,
>you ever get that apology?
>Guessin you didn't.
>
>
>#livelikezac



Roughly 50k members and I go after 1 or 2. 8 million? NRA members. Are we to believe them all jackwagons like LaPierre?

BTW. I don't think Tawney is a bad guy. He just shouldn't be leading a group. Same reason I shouldn't. Too much big mouth in public, you alienate too many members.

Notdon.

I thought I got your ford story. The only sacred cow I have in this is the land. Only one side is attacking it so I attack them.

But. I'm not trying to lead what is supposed to be a non political group. We disagree, but your points I take to heart

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Only a couple attackin the sacred cow yet you seem to belive the other 100 odd million are jackwagons. Post up the full plank you fear so much.


#livelikezac
 
>Only a couple attackin the sacred
>cow yet you seem to
>belive the other 100 odd
>million are jackwagons. Post up
>the full plank you fear
>so much.
>
>
>#livelikezac


"Representative republic"



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-19 AT 08:11PM (MST)[p]>>Only a couple attackin the sacred
>>cow yet you seem to
>>belive the other 100 odd
>>million are jackwagons. Post up
>>the full plank you fear
>>so much.
>>
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>
>"Representative republic"
>
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.


lol....I wouldnt post the full plank either.

#livelikezac
 
?How long have many of us been telling you these guys ain't who they claim? A simple you guys were right would suffice. Character is revealed more often than its built. Vanilla, you ever get that apology? Guessin you didn't.? -DW

Nope, but I don't really want an apology, and definitely don't need one.

I will say, exactly what hoss has said here about the leadership of BHA letting their politics get in the way is EXACTLY what I warned about BHA from the beginning. I was criticized, attacked, told I was not honest, and a bunch of other childish crap. After time and events have played out, I was right. So for me, that is good enough.

Hoss, I hope you're successful in changing the course. I really sincerely do. BHA is a group I'd love to get behind. But, and this is a big ?but,? I never will while they are aligning with deep pocketed enemies of things I feel are very important. As I've said from the beginning about this group- those with the money will talk eventually. Then what will the rest of you (or us) do?

Seems like that day has arrived. And for those that looked at it objectively, it's not much of a surprise.
 
>?How long have many of us
>been telling you these guys
>ain't who they claim? A
>simple you guys were right
>would suffice. Character is revealed
>more often than its built.
>Vanilla, you ever get that
>apology? Guessin you didn't.? -DW
>
>
>Nope, but I don't really want
>an apology, and definitely don't
>need one.
>
>I will say, exactly what hoss
>has said here about the
>leadership of BHA letting their
>politics get in the way
>is EXACTLY what I warned
>about BHA from the beginning.
>I was criticized, attacked, told
>I was not honest, and
>a bunch of other childish
>crap. After time and events
>have played out, I was
>right. So for me, that
>is good enough.
>
>Hoss, I hope you're successful in
>changing the course. I
>really sincerely do. BHA is
>a group I'd love to
>get behind. But, and this
>is a big ?but,? I
>never will while they are
>aligning with deep pocketed enemies
>of things I feel are
>very important. As I've said
>from the beginning about this
>group- those with the money
>will talk eventually. Then what
>will the rest of you
>(or us) do?
>
>Seems like that day has arrived.
>And for those that looked
>at it objectively, it's not
>much of a surprise.


I say nearly every time I hit $fw, that there is a disconnect from a small handful of guys at the top and their members.

But it's easy to say "the money will talk".

I don't believe every Republican is Mike Lee. I don't believe every dem is Adam Schiff.

In every group there are folks who seek power/leadership because they want power or money or fame.

As you and DW were smashing BHA they were a very small very new group that was experiencing growing pains and newness. It's also fair to point out that Berman and their "green decoy" attack on such a small and insignificant group at the time showed that there was legitimacy to what they were attempting to do. As long as the powers that be can keep us fragmented, there is room for them to maneuver.


BHA isn't so new anymore. They aren't so tiny.

There comes a time when you have to advance or evolve. Tawney is great at being a cheerleader. He's pizz poor at leadership. Time for new leadership. Pretty simple.

Ryan Callahan calls it "trail diplomacy". The leader of a diverse group like that has to practice it as their style. Land is like me, or DW. He doesn't check his mouth.

At prop 5 time. Had $fw stood up to Peay and stayed on the course they set out on, they would have been a national group, and probably in the realm of RMEF.

You see similar forks in the road in business and sports all the time.






From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-08-19 AT 08:58AM (MST)[p]Notdonhunting,

There is a lot of wisdom in your many post on this thread.

Hillary should be in jail. We will find out more truths in the near future. (I might put her in the trunk in the snow storm LOL)

There is good and bad in most groups. I don't know a prefect one.
Some have a record of getting more things done for wildlife and hunting than others.

I would agree with about 75% of the views of Grizz and Hoss.
We can still try to be friendly and respectful of other peoples opinions. I'd be glad to sit down, talk hunting, and have a burger with either.

I agree there is TWO very clear changes in direction for this country.

Trump and following the constitution, appointing judges that will defend our constitution, protecting our second amendment, protecting our borders, people and laws, protecting unborn babies, have choice and free market healthcare.

All democratic candidates have said the opposite. Socialism is the way to go. Open borders, free government healthcare, free college, more environmental regulations (THE GREEN NEW DEAL), take away our guns, change the constitution it's out dated. It should be the Mother right to kill her unborn baby just before birth, etc.

We are living in an interesting and important time to make decisions.
 
Hunting50 you are right about the Supreme Court Justices. The next 20 plus years of Justice Kavanaugh and Justice Gorsuch are worth 4 years of Trump.
 
>Hunting50 you are right about the
>Supreme Court Justices. The next
>20 plus years of Justice
>Kavanaugh and Justice Gorsuch are
>worth 4 years of Trump.
>


Should get 2 more over the next 5yrs. Horrible news if you hate the constitution and believe in the NWO. I'm all smiles!

#livelikezac
 
>Should get 2 more over the
>next 5yrs. Horrible news if
>you hate the constitution and
>believe in the NWO. I'm
>all smiles!
>
>#livelikezac

No sir, you referencing the New World Order conspiracy leaves me in all smiles!

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>>Should get 2 more over the
>>next 5yrs. Horrible news if
>>you hate the constitution and
>>believe in the NWO. I'm
>>all smiles!
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>No sir, you referencing the New
>World Order conspiracy leaves me
>in all smiles!
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>Ask yourself if you agree with
>the following statement...
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>


Guess I just assumed anybody that bought into BHA probably bought into NWO as well.

#livelikezac
 
?I will 100% guarantee you, because I've been to all their national shows... The average BHA attendee puts more miles on their hunting boots in a year than those at SFW banquets, Expo, SCI, RMEF, etc... Sorry if that hurts your feelings but it's true.?


That comment right there pretty much sums up grizzly, my d!ck is bigger than yours...
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-12-19 AT 05:19PM (MST)[p]>
>?I will 100% guarantee you, because
>I've been to all their
>national shows... The average BHA
>attendee puts more miles on
>their hunting boots in a
>year than those at SFW
>banquets, Expo, SCI, RMEF, etc...
>Sorry if that hurts your
>feelings but it's true.?
>
>
>That comment right there pretty much
>sums up grizzly, my d!ck
>is bigger than yours...

Absolutely NOT! The point is that those who claim BHA is a secret enviro group of anti-hunters are ignorant, talking out of their ass, and are throwing around Fake News with no actual facts backing it up.

But it's good to get some confirmation on your insecurities.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Yet they bow to green energy and support wind farms and solar fields on public land, for as hoss says, "some scratch". They abstain fom the fight to have a grizzly hunt, they are currently abstaining from the fight against wolf introduction in Colorado all under the guise of a one issue mission statement, until green energy tells them to ignore their mission statement. Put down the shovel.


#livelikezac
 
?But it's good to get some confirmation on your insecurities.?

Lmfao... don't flatter yourself more than you always do...
 
>Yet they bow to green energy
>and support wind farms and
>solar fields on public land,
>for as hoss says, "some
>scratch". They abstain fom the
>fight to have a grizzly
>hunt, they are currently abstaining
>from the fight against wolf
>introduction in Colorado all under
>the guise of a one
>issue mission statement, until
>green energy tells them to
>ignore their mission statement. Put
>down the shovel.
>
>
>#livelikezac

Outside the state of Wyoming, exactly who has fought for grizzly hunting? The state of Montana passed. So did Idaho. Guess all the green decoys in those states should be called out to?





From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 

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