Bet this becomes a flame.....

I

IDBoneCollector

Active Member
Messages
286
This is taken word for word from a letter i recieved from the F&G in responce to my previous post (Love it or Hate it)

"At the the direction of the Idaho Fish and Game, We will be prpposing a bill during the comming legislative session to allow the Department to auction off 5 deer tags, 5 elk tags, 5 pronghorn tags, 2 moose tags, and 1 bighorn sheep tag. 40% of the proceeds of the auction would go to Access Yes! program and 60% would be used to improve habitat and big game management."

I figured that some of you might want to know about this before it becomes law. If your For it or Against it, i really dont care but here is your cance to get ahold of your elected officals and voice your opinion either way,
 
that would slap an old whore while she is down. We are already over using a hand full of units in this state. Why not put another nail in the coffin. Ron
 
Wow,,,,,,,, F&G is listening. I have mixed emotions about this. If the money is used correctly, I think it could be a good thing. The bad part is that Idaho is going to start taking part in making Trophy Game in the west a rich mans game. It's already heading in that direction, or is there. So are the tags going to be like super tags, any hunt anywhere, or certain units (seasons). Access yes is a good thing. I went to one of the access points and there was way to many people, but it gives people a place to hunt. I think it's great that F&G is trying to keep the hunters happy, it's our state and our big herds.

No offense to anyone from Utah on this forum,,,,,BUT I personally do not want Idaho to head in the same direction as Utah, with regards to their game herds. I'm one of the hunters that want to hunt every year. I'm in good enough shape that I can put the work in to find good bulls and bucks each year. The deer and elk are in the units to be hunted, people cannot expect to sit on a road a find a sixpoint bull or 4 point buck in a general season unit.

Just my opinion if F&G is really reading our posts.

My personal keys to success in Idaho

1- get in shape,, its a new year,,, lose some weight, be able to get to that next ridge....carry pack frame, (bone the animal out)
2- hunt the same area for 3-5 years,, I know alot of guys that jump from unit to unit without success, in most cases the deer and elk are around you, just have to learn the patterns
3-We should all feel lucky to live in Idaho, it's a great state with great game herds,,,, take advantage of it.

Sorry IDBoneCollector, I stole your thread, it's painfull to see so many hunters struggling.

I didn't mean to go on to much of a rampage,,,,,
 
i am totally against whoring out our game to the uber rich ! as for the access yes properties i think they are all right. i would like to see them concentrate more on opening up the " land locked " blm land and inforcing illegaly posted property.

and i am glad you are young virile and in good shape. i am middle aged fat and happy i might add. i hunt as hard as i can and am seeing fewer and fewer animals where i have had success for decades. yes there are honey holes and i still have mine for sure. but the whole " boning " out the deer and elk REALLY chaps me. when i was young and still now ! just did it last fall, quarter all elk and bring out ALL THE MEAT !!! i ran into to guys last fall at arrowrock 4 young me two of which had packs with raghorn racks and supposadly " all the meat ". sorry you cant bone out two elk and get all the meat out in two backpacks. also i asked what about evidence of sex ? they cut the hornes off the head. they said they didn't need it. thats b.s. ! read the rulebook. you very well may bring it all out and god bless you. but now the f&g isn't even making people bring out neck or rib meat. my opinion if you want to climb mt. everest and sneer at all us fat boys for not climbing up there at least bring the WHOLE animal out.......
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-11 AT 08:22AM (MST)[p]Beavis14 your right guys must bone the whole animal out. I'm not try to promote wasting meat. The neck meat makes great burger.
Anyways,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it's great to find people that are as passionate about big game as I am.

p.s. i'm not young
 
Just go read the posts about Utah! I lived there from 1999- 2005. I got a deer every year. But now they are auctioning off Gov tags galore and the CWMU's are selling tags like crazy to the rich and treating the "lucky haha" public CWMU draw hunters like trash.
No way do we allow the DWR to do this. Habitat will not get improved. Mark my words on this. The rich want it all to themselves.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-11 AT 10:14AM (MST)[p]I agree DeerMadness. The auctions only promote hunting to the rich. The average hunter does not stand a chance. I understand the need for more revenue for the F&G, if they used it apporpriately. Auctioning tags should NOT be allowed in Idaho. If they want to bring in more revenue increase the non-resident licenses, tags, and fees. The Super Tag drawings are already close enough to the auction style concept. I think F&G should leave it at that! Why allow for more hunting in the most sought after units where herd size and trophy sizes are diminishing. Not to say that Idaho doesn't have trophy deer and elk, but why allow more tags? It seems to negate conservation efforts to me.

Keep it the way it is. Herd management is lacking in many respects throughout Idaho and I believe catering to the rich out-of-staters is not going to help our herds. I believe F&G does a pretty good job overall with fish and big game management; however, auctioning tags off won't help build the herds or habitat. Access Yes seems to be a good program, but the Super Tag drawings were set up for the purpose of running that program. We don't need to auction off limited tags for that purpose. If herd numbers were really strong throughout the state it might make a little more sense to do something like this. But until then let's work with what we have to imporve habitat and herd numbers.

Just my two cents.....for what it's worth....


MuleyCrazed
Idaho
 
MuleyCrazed,

Yes the Super Tag is enough. Maybe a conservation small fee to help out but no auctions or trophy pay hunts! One good thing about Idaho is that you can't apply for evry tag in the same year- such as late season deer and Mosse together. That keeps the odds lower than it would be. Idaho is fairly good for today's world.
Doe tags are not good depending on the buck-doe ratio and I think Idaho sells too many doe tags.


DeerMadness
Idaho
 
I agree 100% with MuleyCrazed:

"The Super Tag drawings are already close enough to the auction style concept. I think F&G should leave it at that!"

Think about the poor guy in 2011 who finally draws a LE Deer or Bull tag, especially with low tag quota who now has 5 extra hunters to go with the SH tag holders. At least the SH is available to anyone willing to buy a ticket, and if a guy is loaded he can donate a bunch of cash for a better opportunity.

My son Cory, at the age of 12 and 13, drew 3 Super Hunt tags. I am not kidding, 1 Deer, 1 Antelope at age 12 and 1 Elk at 13. I put in a total of 8 tickets for him. Unbelievable odds. I know of at least 5 guys who put in over $5000 worth of tickets who didn't draw one. That ain't bad and they have pulled in some pretty good cash doing it. I wouldn't mind 1 of each, but not more than that. If they don't pull in at least $25k for Antelope, $50K+ for Deer/Elk, and $100K for Trophy Species, none at all!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-11 AT 04:35PM (MST)[p]One tag going up for auction is one to many,, looks like we are heading down a slippery slope here in Idaho..
As far as using any of the money for Access yes?? Well i gotta tell ya,, I wouldn't give a pinch of Sh!t to hunt on any ground i have seen from the access yes program.
The only folks i see benefiting from access yes is the land owners.
Idaho just has way to much wonderful public land to hunt and fish on.. Throwing money away on a program like access yes is just ridiculous to say the least.
And pimping out the best tags Idaho has to offer to fund such a program as access yes is even more ridiculous..

We have been discussing access yes for a few months on another website i am a member of, we have been in contact with Sal Palazzolo
Private Lands/ Farm Bill Coordinator
Idaho Department of Fish & Game,,, hes the head honcho for this program, some eye opening stuff from sal on there he explains how the program works, and there's some members experiance's with access yes lands that might just suprise you..
Well worth the read if you ever wondered where the money from the super tags is going..

http://www.uplandidaho.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1624

http://www.uplandidaho.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1728

http://www.uplandidaho.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1825
 
Well this exactly why i posted this is to get the info out to my fellow hunters. I know how sneakey the F&G can be on pushing through new laws. Like i said i dont care if you are for this or agianst this i just thought this is some need to know info..

"And to those of you who will read this post complain or preach abou this here and not contact your legislators and tell them how you feel and if you dont you have no right to ##### when this passes or fails"
 
Many Thanks IDBoneCollector for bringing this to our attention,
I checked the F&G website and it doesn't have one damn thing about this on there..
I talked to a buddy that's pretty savvy about this kind of stuff and he has been doing some snooping, sounds like the Idaho sportsmans caucus advisery council is behind all this..
http://www.idahoscac.org/
 
Revenue cures all ails. However, I am not in favor of this in my backyard. The slope continues to get slick.....slip sliding away!
 
Runamuk, It looks like your buddy is right i did some more reading on another e-mail i got from them.

"The authority to auction big game tags is provided to the Idaho Fish and Game Commission through Idaho law on a very limited basis. As with all Idaho laws any changes require approval by the Idaho Legislature and the Governor. Currently the Commission has the authority through Idaho Code 36-408 to auction one bighorn sheep tag and ten wolf tags (valid when we had a hunting season). The Commission and Department select a nonprofit organization dedicated to wildlife conservation to conduct the actual auction of the tags. The law establishing these auction tags also directs how the Department may spend the funds generated from the sale of the tags."
 
If your rich you will agree and if your like me and love hunting and want the same opportunity at trophy bucks and bulls you'll disagree. Hunting in America is heading the same direction as in Europe, for the rich. But what else in America is different!
 
I also have mixed emotions if F&G go to an auction. It will, of course, add funds to F&G funds but it seems that hunting is ever becoming a rich man's sport. I would prefer to see a lottery type system rather than an auction of tags
 
Again it looks like the all mighty dollar will prevail again But since when has the idaho f and g be constitutional ???

I understand they need revenue to operate and maintain so many different things But have the ever been remotely audited and have to account for the stupid ass spending Watched there chopper counting deer a couple days ago?? Funny i thought a helicopter could hover? Lets get down really close and see how hard we can chase these deer And never mind the coyotes Pack a dam shotgun and put the hurt on the predators

Would this work??? The areas that are hurting on deer and elk populations.... Any one who buys the tag for that area and sits out for three years while that area is closed to hunting gets the tag on the re opener ? They still get there precious revenue and our herds aren't being depleted Plus the reopening wouldn't be overrun by people If you didn't buy the tag and sit out you don't get to hunt it?? And you wouldn't be able to hunt elsewhere in idaho putting more pressure elsewhere?
 
So is Nate Helm still a lobbyist "representative" for SFW Idaho over in boise? Just looked today @ a 2008 commission meeting and his name and input was there. I think the wolf tags came from their influence.... But I have lived in Utah... saw what has been done there..... We need to contact our reps and let them know special interest tags need to be capped where they are at!




Has anyone seen my kittie?

8020scott_ralphie.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-11 AT 08:10PM (MST)[p]Yea i think Nate is still the driver for SFW,, this whole deal seems to stink of SFW, but i didn't see their org listed on the
Idaho Sportsmen?s Caucus Advisory Council..
Heres a list of the orgs that make up the council, supposed to be 31 orgs but i only see 28 so SFW may very well be a part of it.. Sure does smell like something they would be pushing..

This is the part of Idahobonecollector's post that screams out SFW......
""The Commission and Department select a nonprofit organization dedicated to wildlife conservation to conduct the actual auction of the tags.""

Member Organizations

Ada Co. Fish & Game League
Backcountry Horsemen of Idaho
Backcountry Hunters & Anglers
Blackfoot River Bowmen
Bonner County Sportsmen
Citizens Against Poaching
Deer Hunters of Idaho
Idaho BASS Federation Nation
Idaho Conservation Officers Ass.
Idaho Falconers Association
Idaho Houndsmen Association
Idaho Poachers Club
Idaho Rifle & Pistol Associ
Idaho Safari Club International
Idaho State Bow Hunters
Idaho Steelhead & Salmon Unl
Idaho Traditional Bow Hunters
Idaho Trappers Ass.
Idaho Trout Unlimited
Idaho Wildlife Fedreration
Land Owners & Sportsmen Un
National Wild Turkey Federation
North Idaho Tree Hound Ass.
Pheasants Forever
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Snake River Cutthroats
The Idaho Bass Federation
Wild Sheep Foundation
 
I have a hard time blaming F&G for turning hunting into a rich man's sport. They have many programs aimed at keeping hunting and fishing opportunities available. Would you rather they go on the general fund or look for other sources of revenue? Auctioning premier tags that will be way out of reach for people like myself is a bitter pill. But......if you want to raise funds you don't aim for the lower income bracket.

I don't believe things will improve until they get the wolf problem under control.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-11 AT 09:41PM (MST)[p]the ONLY way i support pimping out our big game is if all the hunting has to be on private land. this wouldn't bother me as much as all of us probably wouldn't be allowed on the property anyway.i think less than 50 bucks a year is preety damned cheep for hunting and fishing licence. i would rather double or triple the cost of the liscences, than add these auction hunts or any more validations ...maybe a validation for whistlepigs........
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-11 AT 10:01PM (MST)[p]>I have a hard time blaming
>F&G for turning hunting into
>a rich man's sport.
>They have many programs aimed
>at keeping hunting and fishing
>opportunities available. Would you
>rather they go on the
>general fund or look for
>other sources of revenue?
>Auctioning premier tags that will
>be way out of reach
>for people like myself is
>a bitter pill. But......if
>you want to raise funds
>you don't aim for the
>lower income bracket.
>
>I don't believe things will improve
>until they get the wolf
>problem under control.

Have you been paying attention to whats going on in Utah???
The same kind of crap is going to follow any high dollar premium tags, to any state.
That's a high price to pay, for some ez money..
 
Pre64

LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-11 AT 09:11AM (MST)[p]No way I am going to agree with you.
First- it is becoming a rich man's sport and they want it that way.
Second- if a lottery system was $ 25.00 to put in for a very good unit or season date then tons of hunters would buy tickets. You still get a big pot.
 
RE: Pre64

3RD,, we would be over ran by big name guides and their posse's
putting a bunch of extra folks running around before,, DURING!!! and after the hunt..pretty much putting pressure on the game year round.

4th,, F&G would see all that ez money and keep handing out more-n-more tags for auction,
maybe if F&G could find a way to spend some of the funds they already have a little more wisely then they wouldn't have to sell out Idaho hunters, and the big game..
 
RE: Pre64

I've never supported any "conservation" group who auctions tags to the highest bidder.
Obviously 100% opposed to this type of thing. And you can bet your @ss gemstate will be hitting the phones to tell them how I feel...............







the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
RE: Pre64

I find it interesting that comments supporting fish and game and often dismissed. Let's see here. First, Idaho already has a lottery. In fact they have have a few. They have the general drawing, the left over drawing, and the super tag drawing. (do they have two super-tag drawings???) A good question might be "why are these tags being auctioned rather than put in a lottery??" Maybe they have milked the lottery for all its worth. Maybe somebody is pushing an agenda. Maybe both.

F&G does not want hunting and fishing to be a rich man's sport. No way, no how. They want lots of happy and successful hunters and fishermen who buy licences and tags year after year. They are not getting this.

From the agencies 2011 "Direction" document;

NonResident Hunters ? We sold noticeably fewer hunting licenses to nonresidents than the previous year. Nonresident hunters expressed a ?triple whammy? ? the wolves? effects on elk hunting, the 2009 fee increase, and the economy were main reasons they gave for not yet planning a trip to Idaho in 2010. Fish and Game has historically charged significantly higher rates for nonresidents to hunt in Idaho, and this has helped keep costs low for our residents. In good times this works well but nonresidents are more likely to defer hunting trips to Idaho in difficult economic times, and when they do, Fish and Game?s revenue stream is directly affected.



Some very good points on this thread regarding the pitfalls of auctioning tags. What has not been mentioned is that once a system like this is established it will not likely go away.

Also, if F&G goes on general fund dollars you find much fewer hunting and fishing opportunities, but in return you will get lots more wolf viewing and bird watching opportunities.

Other than more lotteries I have not read any suggestions on how to bridge the revenue gap. They could raise fees, but then we would indeed be heading towards the rich man's sport dillema. On a personal, this thread reminded me to up my membership in the RMEF. I really can't think of a better way to help ensure my kids will get to see the elk herds I've seen in this state.
 
RE: Pre64

"What has not been mentioned is that once a system like this is established it will not likely go away."

This is exactly the problem. It definitely won't get any smaller and will most likely get bigger after they get a feel for the huge amount of money that a handful of these tags would make. It always drives me nut when people don't see the big picture on this stuff, the precedent that it sets to allow game animals to be pimped out to the highest bidder isn't worth any amount of money that would be gained, IMO. The superhunts were the first step, this is the next... and unfortunatly it wasn't unexpected.

No doubt the F&G has some serious revenue issues they have to deal with. I don't claim to have the answers for them but this is the last thing I would ever want to see happen. I'm glad to see most folks here feel the same.
 
RE: Pre64

yes the revenue issue is tough. when i posted the whistle pig tag it was partly a gag and partly serious. i think there are creative ways the f &g could make more revanue rather than " pimping it ". how about remington makes a couple hundred idaho commemerative f & g shotguns or rifles and sell them for rafffle tickets. and here it comes........ i think we should either make the finch watchers, wildlife viewers pay there way or drop all that off and just concentrate on the animals and fish that we buy licences, tags ect..... the two pole permit was a great idea for more revenue. and i enjoy the hell out of it ! they could sell raffle tickits for ridealongs, let kids fish in the hatcheries i could go on and on......there are more ways than " pimpin it "
 
RE: Pre64

You simply can not justify having both Super Hunt Tags and Auction Tags.

Economically, I'm just not sure you would get that large of a return on the Auction tag anyway. People already buy landowner tags through the "access fee" loophole.

What do you think the market would bear for these tags?
 
RE: Pre64

This loophole is true. A big construction company located in Boise (will not say the name), buys tags to hunt in the Owhyee's each year from some of the big ranches. I don't know if this is totally acurate, but I think it is.
 
RE: Pre64

LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-11 AT 07:54PM (MST)[p]The loophole with landowner tags has been closed, starting in 2011 they can not designate tags out to anybody else.

matt,, the name of the const. co. is,,Top,, ain't it????
Not only do they buy tags, they seem to draw a heck of alot of tags also..
 
RE: Pre64

The landowner tag is a draw just like the regular hunters tags. I happen to get one when it draws. I hadn't heard a word about not being able to designate it to any valid hunting license number. This is total bull$hit. That's what we ought to do is piss off all the landowners. See how many will sign up for this dumb a$$ access yes crap.
I have never sold an access fee for a tag and it rotates between family members. Now your saying it has to stay with only the landowner.?
Not sure about you guys but anytime I have tried to get permission for access I find the landowner months in advance and usually have great luck.
All access doesn't have to get bought and paid for. Just don't want a million people calling the night before opener and thinking they earned a right because they know you And called????
But what gives kid f and g the right to decide who a landowner let's hunt their property. Sorry about the rant but I really think they tried to frame us a couple couple years ago. What a crock of BS I know there are people who abuse this system and that sucks but here are wonderful fish and game are throwing all landowners in the same barrel
 
RE: Pre64

And what is the difference between the fish and game and the landowners who sell access fees. The highest bidder gets the choice tags and areas to hunt
 
RE: Pre64

Well it seems the general consensus is these tags are a bad idea and the majority do not want the program started. Also most folks seem to agree that F&G has a big revenue problem (mostly due to Non-Residents not buying as many licenses and tags as in the past) and a few have come up with some ways to raise a little $$ for the dept.
But I have a solution that would raise revenue with out having to give out any more tags and also could lower the dependence on our Non-Res licenses and OTC tags for revenue. I would also be cautiously optimistic that F&G would actually start managing some of the struggling units (OTC and Controlled) instead of "pimping" them out with unlimited/too high a quota of tags, because it would bring in so much revenue.
Of course I am talking about a Non-Resident point system. Most other western states have one and F&G already has been mulling around this idea for years, even starting the process last year but stoping it after the public comment period due to what I belive is some unwarrented/flawed concerns from some folks.
I could go on and on about why I think the concerns are overblown and why I think it is the ONLY viable solution to an obvious problem.
But I will say this, the wolves are not going away anytime soon, and alot of units with little to no wolves are also struggling, urban sprawl and other factors are reducing our winter grounds and there is little money to improve what we have left, there is little $$ for road projects that reduce wildlife vs. vechicle collisions, and to make matters worse IDFG can not/will not manage alot of the units tag #'s when the surveys show it is warranted due to lowering wildlife #s because it is the main revenue stream. Most Non-residents used to apply for controlled hunts and if not drawn use the license they already had to buy an OTC tag. But with the decline in the OTC units and the rising non-res license cost alot have decided its not worth it with nothing to show (A Point) for the $155 + app fees if not drawn. The only way to get the Non-resident $$ to start flowing back in is with either drastically better hunting or giving them something to show for their license fees. The status quo can not continue and until someone can show me a better way for everyone involved I still think this is the best solution.
 
RE: Pre64

Rather than focusing on raising revenue, why not cut spending? And no that would not mean cutting our game wardens - that is just the emotional threat that gets thrown out first. Kind of like the school district saying they would fire the crossing guards first if they did not get their supplemental levy.
 
RE: Pre64

>LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-11
>AT 07:54?PM (MST)
>
>The loophole with landowner tags has
>been closed, starting in 2011
>they can not designate tags
>out to anybody else.
>
>matt,, the name of the const.
>co. is,,Top,, ain't it????
>Not only do they buy tags,
>they seem to draw a
>heck of alot of tags
>also..



This is excellent news. Where did you here about it? Those tags should not be transferable and thats that.

I'll take it a step further and say If a landowner is not allowing access, he should be taken out of the pool altogether.






the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
RE: Pre64

LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-11 AT 07:20AM (MST)[p]excellent point bc. we all have to tighten our belt why not f & g ? they can take furlows just like others. but you are right they will threaten the end of the world if there are budget restraints. i buy a non resident " extra ' deer tag every year. it seems a bargain to get to go deer hunting an aditional time each year. there are several ways to get more revenue. i am apposed to the non-resident point system as i feel they shouldn't get a advantage over me getting a good tag.

as for the landowner tags. i have heared the same thing regarding the landowner/ good old boy network for the cow hunt in 39. as for the landowner rights. i feel they should get zero depridation money and zero feed support for feeding wintering wildlife if they do not allow the general public to hunt. i personaly don't even ask to hunt on private property waste of time. the old "few bad apples ruin it for everybody" is b.s., maybe in some cases but i think more times than not $$$$ is the issue. i tried getting access on several ranches in fairfield to get to " landlocked " blm lands. tresspass fees ranged from 100 $ to 500 $. while there livestock grazed freely on OUR land.......the landowner tags should be used for immediate family or ripped up and trashed. they own the land but not the WILDLIFE !
 
RE: Pre64

>i am apposed to the non-resident
>point system as i feel
>they shouldn't get a advantage
>over me getting a good
>tag.
>
That is exactly the flawed/misunderstood thinking I was talking about.
Non-residents would not have any advantage over residents with a point system. They are limited to up to %10 of the controlled hunt tags now and it would not change with a point system.
 
RE: Pre64

Like i said I have never taken a single penny for damages by deer elk etc to fences hay etc Never taken a single penny for access fees and i still feel its crap to not be able to designate this tag to who earns a priviledge of hunting on private property
There have been several people and kids who killed their first deer elk turkey pheasant bobcat lion and the list goes on
on my property I am and will not just open the gate to let anyone go tramping around and shootin stuff up just because

Yeah those few bad apples ruined it for that But if someone wants to earn a PRIVILEDGE not a right just because free range animals live on this piece of real estate then they need to show up long before the opener

Some of my greatest friends and hunting buddys to this day are people who stopped by and wanted to know more about hunting this area
And as for the Free grazing That is crap too My family has never missed a single payment for our GRAZING RIGHTS thats right RIGHT not priviledge and it aint free

I know there are loopholes in most sytems and they get abused but really don't put me in the same boat as the landowners who abused the system and i won't put you in the boat as the so called sportsman hunters who abused the whole thing

Personally i think that if you tie the hands of the landowners where most of the wildlife reside year round you will see lots and lots more orange paint on posts and this sucks
 
RE: Pre64

I like the non-resident point system idea Moosey. But, I also believe the wolf problem is being understated. In an effort to sell non-resident tags I think wolf populations might be underestimated and elk populations overestimated. Tangible evidence is the decrease of tag sales. In any case, I'm not prepared to accept the current situation and I believe state management is possible. If nothing else, a wolf tag is an incentive for non-residents to buy licenses.

From RMEF;

"Other factors such as weather, declining habitat quality, other predators and hunter harvest also influence elk populations. These must be considered with the impacts of wolves, but currently wolves are the leading cause of elk population loss in central Idaho. Elk numbers in zones impacted most by wolves will continue to decline and/or remain below management objectives until IDFG can reduce wolf numbers and maintain low wolf numbers until elk numbers can rebound. The reality is wolves are a recent and additional source of mortality that was nonexistent prior to 1995. Losses will vary by zone, but they will definitely impact how the state manages big game populations.

IDFG has had to reduce elk hunting opportunities because of wolf impacts on elk numbers. Cow elk hunts in the Lolo zone have been virtually nonexistent for the last 10 years and dramatically curtailed in the Sawtooth zone in the last few years. As a conservative measure, IDFG managers are considering reducing opportunities in other zones with similar outlooks. Further management steps may need to be taken in these zones and beyond because of the impacts wolves are having on calves. This could result in reduction of opportunities to hunt bulls as well."

You wanna sell tags you gotta have healthy elk herds.



BTW, charging non-hunters fees is an idea espoused by anti-hunters in order to gain a greater voice in wildlife management.
 
RE: Pre64

i apologize if you feel i was making a blanket statement to you. i wasn't ,and i appologize you are doing everything as it should be. i still feel strongly that yes the property is yours but the game animals aren't. you may feed them in hard times and god bless you.however they still aren't your animals. i don't think one should be able to dictate who gets the tags. they should be for you and your family period. no one whether they mend your fences , shine your shoes, or whatever earns the all so precious privelage to hunt your or any landowners property should have one up on anyone else. my opinion and you are certainly more than free to have yours that is what makes this country great.

as for the missunderstanding on the preferance points for non-residents. i am sorry but it isn't fair. they will sooner or later get drawn a tag that i may put in for 20 years and never get ! and if non residents are complaning about poor hunting and tag increases you really think they are going to shell out big money for this ? i like the idea if residents have the point system as well as the non residents. i still believe the resident hunting liscences are way too cheap. come on a tank of gas for our trucks is 80 bucks. i think we could all pony up another 50 for our liscence. sorry if i ruffled any feathers it was not my intent.
 
RE: Pre64

I agree with you Beavis about raising our fees (resident). I know there are a lot of people who are having a hard time making ends meet right now but I feel that as responsible residents of and stewards of Idaho we could pony up a few more bucks to help out our herds. I don't completely agree that Fish and Game is managing our herds into oblivion by over harvest. We as hunters have become so much more efficient with everything (rangefinders ,bows that shoot 320fps, scentblocking clothes and everything else). I am by far not a richer but would be willing to pay more for tags and licenses if it would help out our herds. Fish and Game need to meet us half way and do their part by cutting spending. They do not need backhoes,excavators or dumptrucks they are not an excavation company. They also don't need 3/4 ton extracab trucks that get 11 mpg.How many f and g trucks have you seen actually pulling a trailer?
 
RE: Pre64

I agree with customweld. F&G should cut spending, get rid of the excess. I would be willing to pay more for out tags. I think a nonresident point system would be good. Most guys don't want to pay the out of state fee's because they don't get A POINT. It would not affect the resident drawings at all. F&G will not close hunting units, they will let guys shot 2-points. Alot of people in Idaho are happy with a forked-horn. It's just how it is and F&G knows this. Here's a good question for somebody. Why in the H#LL does F&G have a controlled hunt for bears in 32 and 22. There so many damn bears in these units. Bears eat lots of elk and deer calves. This one I don't understand.
 
RE: Pre64

Hey Beavis i apologize also I didn't mean to single you out Was just sayin I never claimed to own any wildlife on my property Lots of landowners still have that mentality But i still feel i should have the say in who i would let hunt it And a neighbor, friend, someone helping fix the fences torn out by deer and elk or fence off stack yards, relative, or someone needing the meat or wanting to take a son or grandson type thing out for the first hunt would always be more welcome than someone who spots a buck over the fence and somehow feels they should have a right to go in after it cause its public wildlife And the bad apples who cut fences and have the mentality that its ok cause its public game just on the wrong side of the fence ruin it for lots of others Same as landowners who justify selling trespass fees to compensate for losses caused by wildlife ruin it for others
I have always felt that this is Gods land and His animals and they were here first and will be after im long gone. I was just lucky enough to be dropped off right in the middle of His heaven on earth and hopefully will leave it as good as possible so the next generation can enjoy
 
RE: Pre64

As for u guys who think raising our rates will make for better hunting remember now... Not that long ago we had a pretty damn big hike and i really think the hunting has gotton worse. Who is willing to pay more for a worse product?? If any of you are i will sell you my truck it was about 38,000 new i will let it go now for 53,000 sound good.......?
 
RE: Pre64

How much was that "pretty damn big hike". I honestly don't remember, but I'm thinking it was maybe $5 added to the cost of most big game tags. I would bet you and I both spend more taking the wife/girlfriend out on a friday night(maybe 2 friday nights) than we spend on licenses and tags for a whole year. I'm not even close to rich, but to me hunting tags have always been undervalued. I do get your point about not getting a return on investment, but if it were the alternative to whoring out tags to the high bidder I would gladly pay more...
 
RE: Pre64

i think we all agree on some level that the f&g should reduce spending, reduce hunting pressure in certain areas, try and come up with a fair way to increse revenue. i agree with the get more bang for your buck statement for sure. as well i agree with the bear tags for 32 and 22. i never see bears anywhere in the state but every time i go to those areas i ALWAYS see bears.and i don't understand the need for f &g to drive the 3/4 tons either. get them a geo tracker ! just kidding. i agree that times are tough what do you fellows think about raising the draw fee ?
 
RE: Pre64

All I am saying is when times get tough you have to maybe cut back some. Everyone else is so why shouldnt they? I didnt want to post my opinion about the auctuon proposal but I am 100% against it also the reason why is how the money is to be spent.
 
RE: Pre64

I'd be willing to pay more(If it's determined that it will help and the funds are used wisely). IMO, The opportunity we have here in Idaho is worth more than what we currently pay........






the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
RE: Pre64

I lived in Washington and Utah. Our license and tags are cheaper. I would be willing to pay an increase in my tags for the right to prevent auctions and to help the wildlife.
 
RE: Pre64

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

What i am saying, is WE HAVE had pay hikes in the past with nothing to show for it........ What would make another one any different?

I dont think no amount of money will ever help the game. untill we get to do something about them worthless wolves again.. Its a blood bath as we speak up on the winter range where i usually shed hunt..
 
RE: Pre64

From the same document;

"The Commission presented a bold, cost-saving budget proposal for FY2011 that included consolidating several temporary positions into full-time ones and included a return to full-funding of our business-smart vehicle fleet program. In a time of economic scrutiny, both the governor and the Legislature supported our proposed budget, including 39 new, full-time equivalent positions, which eliminated 53 temporary positions for a net savings of over $200,000 per year."

Its not like tightening the belt is a new idea. They also reduced big game aerial surveys to something like every three years. Wish they had not cut that one. Can we trade "access yes" for winter game aerial surveys???
 
RE: Pre64

#1 PROBLEM predators,,,,,,,,,,,Wolves, cougars, bears and coyotes. I think before anything happens Idaho needs to get a grasp on this problem. I think the Gov't needs to help with some of this predator control. Or let the hunters use other means othre than hunting to thin some out. Cougars are hard kill, bears are pretty easy to get and coyotes just never seem to thin out. Wolves, well everybody knows the problem.
 
RE: Pre64

One way F&G can get revenue is to charge landowners for every deer and elk they do not keep off their property if they do not allow some kind of free access for hunting. Not saying to allow everyone to hunt but have a drawing where the landowner has control of hunt times. Landowners want landowner tags because of damage but then just have family and friends use them. Are they really concerned about damage?? Again it all comes down to money. Those who can afford vast amounts of land control the deer and elk we pay for.
 
RE: Pre64

Did you read post #40 ? I wasn't going to even respond to this but here goes :) F and G charge landowners who won't allow people of their picking to tramp around on their property??? You really think that would work? Or is even constitutional? Or else they should high fence it ??
I don't care about the damage to my fences or crops cause i fix em and keep farming so to say its all about the money????
And to assume that someone has vast amounts of land can afford it ? Maybe thats why landowners try to make a living off "their" land. Maybe the should just sell it to the highest bidding developers and see if more no trespassing signs pop up. And btw even those who own land "WE" all pay for the deer and the elk And probably more so the landowners that provide for them above and beyond a license and tag fee.
 

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