Az game and fish have deciced to make units 13a, 12a, 3abc, 7, and unit 1 a draw next season. I am sure that more units will be added next year. The good old days are gone forever in Az. They are also cutting the number of early archery elk tags way down and putting them in November hunts! They want to lower the buck to doe, bull to cow ratio as well. So much for Az being in the tops for western big game. What a shame.
az archery draw
- Thread starter azoutback
- Start date
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utaz
Guest
That sucks.
Let me get this right, will the 12 a archery have its own draw after the muzzy and rifle draw? or will we have to decide on either the archery, rifle or muzzy in the first draw?
Utaz
Let me get this right, will the 12 a archery have its own draw after the muzzy and rifle draw? or will we have to decide on either the archery, rifle or muzzy in the first draw?
Utaz
So true. I just received a call from DFG in Phoenix and discussed the same issue. That's it for the Kaibab as far as OTC tags are concerned. I grew up in Phoenix and now this will be a part of history. We are all going to say, "Remember the good old days". I'm sure this makes the Anti's stoked. Just another step in the direction of slowing things down. One thing that I have not witnessed was the reversing of decisions when thing returned to normal as they say!
Once changed or closed that's it!
Guess AZ doesn't need the income from Non-Res. Small business or Fish and Game!
Once changed or closed that's it!
Guess AZ doesn't need the income from Non-Res. Small business or Fish and Game!
Make no mistake about it it's not directed at Nonresidents only it's directed at everyone that doesn't rifle hunt. We have a progun hunting commission that has elected to take away opportunity from a weapon with an overall less than 6% success rate and cap that off (in units that exceed their newly established harvest objective) and give more opportunity to a weapon with a 27-38% success rate. Now here's the golden part how many guys are going to give up their bonus points and go to the draw to archery hunt for deer? That's right very few! So now we actually are reducing hunting opportunity to all in favor of putting fewer people in the field with more effective weapons.
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utaz
Guest
Is there anyone from the Arizona Game and Fish department on this MM site that can voice the concerns of the hunters. I'm a resident and I want my kids to have opprotunities to hunt and my oldest is 7? It looks like we may be down to only a couple 1,000 permists in 7 years when my oldest can hunt. I thought we were trying to get our kids to love the outdoors and here we are limiting the permits of areas in which you may have a chance of seeing a monster, but at the end of the day most likely won't even get a shot off. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make much sense.
Utaz
Utaz
fin little
Active Member
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- 763
Proposed tag numbers for 2008( according to bowsite posters who attended the saturday meeting)
12A 1850 permits
13A 120
13B 120
7 500
3A/3C 150
3B 75
Up to 10% for nonresidents
The bright side is it will be more of a quality hunt with fewer hunters on the mountain. I think if your an Az resident and a bowhunter it will be a fairly easy draw for the Kaibab. Its going to be a tough draw for us out of state hunters. The down side , people will flood the remaining OTC units which will result in the whole state going to a draw in the near future.
12A 1850 permits
13A 120
13B 120
7 500
3A/3C 150
3B 75
Up to 10% for nonresidents
The bright side is it will be more of a quality hunt with fewer hunters on the mountain. I think if your an Az resident and a bowhunter it will be a fairly easy draw for the Kaibab. Its going to be a tough draw for us out of state hunters. The down side , people will flood the remaining OTC units which will result in the whole state going to a draw in the near future.
Fin are you aware that they only have 1035 rifle permits on two different hunts up there. 1850 archery hunters at the same time isn't going to make it a quality experience for the most part.I've hunted it many times when it was and there's a huge difference between then and now!
fin little
Active Member
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- 763
Boskee, just trying to look at the bright side. I live 30 minutes from the mountain and I hunted it alot back in the 80,s and it was a blast. It wasnt because of less hunters. There were plenty. There were just alot more deer. 1850 tags will cut the hunters in half with 90% being residents. I dont think its that bad for you guys . I hunted it last year and never bumped into another hunter while out hunting an area closed to vehicle access. I didnt even have to hike very far. I'm not happy with the loss of the opportunity to go buy a tag and hunt the mountain 30 miles away. I'm really not happy since I live just over the border and may not even get the tag every 5 years. The really bad part is it will effect the whole state including a unit south of the canyon I enjoy hunting. I agree it sucks. I'm really going to enjoy it this year.
Fin, we lost a lot of opportunity for the guy that doesn't get drawn to hunt with this one, residents and nonresidents alike. To bad there are those that put their self promoting agenda's ahead of what's really good for the sportsman and the animals we hunt. I'm disappointed with our commission and the direction the department is taking. It appears that we may need some new blood with some new ideas and a better sense of direction. If we spent more time managing game, controlling predators and balancing hunting opportunity we would be in much better shape.
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AZWALKER
Guest
No good for non-residents, thats for sure. Sorry guys and I really mean it.
As for the deer it actually may very good.
Only the hardcore guys will put in for an archery tag 1st or 2nd choice. Less Average Joes means less spikes killed. The average age class of bucks will go up. 5 years and you've got a good chance of killing a good mature buck. The rifle hunters will still shoot dinks but they do that now. They ought to add point restrictions as well. Then you'd really have some good units.
Donnie
As for the deer it actually may very good.
Only the hardcore guys will put in for an archery tag 1st or 2nd choice. Less Average Joes means less spikes killed. The average age class of bucks will go up. 5 years and you've got a good chance of killing a good mature buck. The rifle hunters will still shoot dinks but they do that now. They ought to add point restrictions as well. Then you'd really have some good units.
Donnie
F
FAB
Guest
If this does go into effect does anyone know if you will lose all your points by drawing an archery permit in the prescribed units, or do they plan on having a separate point system for archery? I'd hate to burn deer points on an archery hunt.
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AZWALKER
Guest
Depends if you're a resident or non and it also depends no how many points you have.
It looks like 7 units will go to a draw and 7 more will lose the Dec portion of the late hunt. But, as the recomended structure states, it will still leave Janruary available to archers, at this point anyway.
The units everyone cares about are 12a and 13a. 13a doesn't currently have an archery hunt so thats an add. 12a will go to a draw. 1850 tags with a 10% cap leaving 185 to non-residents. Non-residents are gonna take the worst hit. I would venture to guess that at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the guys hunting the archery hunt in 12a are non-residents, so yeah... its gonna hurt.
Donnie
It looks like 7 units will go to a draw and 7 more will lose the Dec portion of the late hunt. But, as the recomended structure states, it will still leave Janruary available to archers, at this point anyway.
The units everyone cares about are 12a and 13a. 13a doesn't currently have an archery hunt so thats an add. 12a will go to a draw. 1850 tags with a 10% cap leaving 185 to non-residents. Non-residents are gonna take the worst hit. I would venture to guess that at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the guys hunting the archery hunt in 12a are non-residents, so yeah... its gonna hurt.
Donnie
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Snapshot
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-07 AT 09:40PM (MST)[p] Can someone explain the reasoning of lowering male/female ratios of huntable populations. How does this create more opportunity with less animals and more hunters in the field. I have read that the higher the ratios the better sustainability of a mature buck/bull population. This whole situation makes no sense to me.
I can understand putting quotas on the highly popular units if the overall harvest objective is more than set limits.
Having the opportunity to hunt 2 seasons here in AZ has always been what I call "maximum opportunity" to be able to hunt deer with a bow during the rut, if a guy decides to pass on harvesting a deer during the rifle hunt.
If this situation helps the overall quality/quantity of our herds, I am all for it, I feel maybe we get a little spoiled with the opportunity to hunt two seasons, however, looking at the overall harvest statistics doesn't indicate a dramatic effect on long term populations?
I can understand putting quotas on the highly popular units if the overall harvest objective is more than set limits.
Having the opportunity to hunt 2 seasons here in AZ has always been what I call "maximum opportunity" to be able to hunt deer with a bow during the rut, if a guy decides to pass on harvesting a deer during the rifle hunt.
If this situation helps the overall quality/quantity of our herds, I am all for it, I feel maybe we get a little spoiled with the opportunity to hunt two seasons, however, looking at the overall harvest statistics doesn't indicate a dramatic effect on long term populations?
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AZWALKER
Guest
I'm not sure I understand it either. I try to be optimistic but it still doesn't add up.
I think its basically that in their eyes if only 20% of the hunters are archers then they don't deserve more than 20% of the harvest. Not really much biology involved.
Now, do I think it could help those units deer herds? Yes I do, but was their decision a wildlife management based decision. Nope!
The problem is that they are going by returned survey cards. Only 38% of the hunters that were sent cards returned them. Its so hard to get acurate numbers from over-the-counter tag holders that it would seem impossible to make a good decision based on those numbers.
I don't know!
Donnie
I think its basically that in their eyes if only 20% of the hunters are archers then they don't deserve more than 20% of the harvest. Not really much biology involved.
Now, do I think it could help those units deer herds? Yes I do, but was their decision a wildlife management based decision. Nope!
The problem is that they are going by returned survey cards. Only 38% of the hunters that were sent cards returned them. Its so hard to get acurate numbers from over-the-counter tag holders that it would seem impossible to make a good decision based on those numbers.
I don't know!
Donnie
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muleyman23
Guest
Say good by to Archery shops in AZ. The only ones that will survive this will be Cabelas, Bass Pro, and Sportsmans.
AZBuckSnort
Very Active Member
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13A has always been open to archery hunting for mule deer during the OTC hunt; it's 13B (the valhalla portion of "The Strip") that will now have up to 120 archery deer permits. Think of it, those bucks have never been hunted at that time of year by anyone but one of the Commission Tag holders. Sitting a water source would likely produce an unsuspecting whopper of a buck.
