Auto industry bail-out
- Thread starter B_F_E
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D
DallanC
Guest
Against it in general... but, it comes down to cost analysis I guess.
How much will the bailout cost vs the cost of an estimated 3 million people being put out of work (its more than just GM, think about Delphi that makes GM parts with its million employees, people at dealerships, heck it will probably even trickle down to checker auto LOL). How much will it cost in unemployement for that many people? plus the hit to the economy?
Either way its going to hurt and cost alot. Auto cannot survive with the costs associated with pensions, union issues, insurance etc etc. I say this when comparing them to the japenese auto makers that don't have such expenses.
-DallanC
How much will the bailout cost vs the cost of an estimated 3 million people being put out of work (its more than just GM, think about Delphi that makes GM parts with its million employees, people at dealerships, heck it will probably even trickle down to checker auto LOL). How much will it cost in unemployement for that many people? plus the hit to the economy?
Either way its going to hurt and cost alot. Auto cannot survive with the costs associated with pensions, union issues, insurance etc etc. I say this when comparing them to the japenese auto makers that don't have such expenses.
-DallanC
R
RACKMASTER
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-08 AT 12:21PM (MST)[p]HELL NO!
Where will it end? if we do the big oil will somday ask for a bail out because trhe retooled Auto Ind now make more cars and trucks that get better fuel econ and they are losing money!
Teach all the laid off workers to pull teeth, draw blood,take blood pressure and put them to work in a national heath care sys (12 buck an hour!)! or redo our roads (16 bbucks an hours)..rebuild Orleans!Union screwed the auto ind up let them find work for there men and woman who made $48hr!
rm
Where will it end? if we do the big oil will somday ask for a bail out because trhe retooled Auto Ind now make more cars and trucks that get better fuel econ and they are losing money!
Teach all the laid off workers to pull teeth, draw blood,take blood pressure and put them to work in a national heath care sys (12 buck an hour!)! or redo our roads (16 bbucks an hours)..rebuild Orleans!Union screwed the auto ind up let them find work for there men and woman who made $48hr!
rm
woodruffhunter
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,720
The Auto Industry, no doubt will plead their case saying: due to the economy, we are unable to make/sustain a profit.
No doubt the economy will have some influence. However, I fail to see the logic of throwing money at the problem. There is more to it than just the "economy".
Mis-management, and a poorly ran operation is what I believe. I say let them file for bankruptcy.
Do you really believe that throwing money at them will cause them to change their management practices???
So NO, don't give them the money.
No doubt the economy will have some influence. However, I fail to see the logic of throwing money at the problem. There is more to it than just the "economy".
Mis-management, and a poorly ran operation is what I believe. I say let them file for bankruptcy.
Do you really believe that throwing money at them will cause them to change their management practices???
So NO, don't give them the money.
H
Huck58
Guest
NOPE! Clean out the CEO"S and lower prices!
E
elkantler75
Guest
give it a real vote. let the public decide and not the senate!! they should all be thrown to the lions!
B
bobcatbess
Guest
NEW PICK-UPS THAT SELL FOR 35-50K AND THEY ARE BROKE???
I DON'T GET IT???
SOMEBODY HAS STOCK PILED SOME MONEY SOMEWHERE???
IF FORD DON'T STRAIGHTEN THEIR "POWERJOKE" UP THEY'LL BE IN THE HOLE SO FAR NOBODY WOULD CARE TO BAIL THEM OUT!!!
THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
I DON'T GET IT???
SOMEBODY HAS STOCK PILED SOME MONEY SOMEWHERE???
IF FORD DON'T STRAIGHTEN THEIR "POWERJOKE" UP THEY'LL BE IN THE HOLE SO FAR NOBODY WOULD CARE TO BAIL THEM OUT!!!
THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
M
Moondog
Guest
Nope. Let them file Chap.11 and reorganize. That means all new deals for labor and mgmt. so they can fix it themselves assuming they want to stay in business.
If the unions fail to negotiate then shut er down and then see how many jobs are available at those wages and benefits. Same for the biggies and their sweet deals.
Nobody wants to give up what they now have but the harsh reality is that they better figure a way to compete because a 100% of nothing still ain't much.
If the unions fail to negotiate then shut er down and then see how many jobs are available at those wages and benefits. Same for the biggies and their sweet deals.
Nobody wants to give up what they now have but the harsh reality is that they better figure a way to compete because a 100% of nothing still ain't much.
B
BowHuntWithaRifle
Guest
Perhaps if the 'Big 3' made a better product they wouldn't be in this mess. They have all been sinking ships due to lack of managment and good product over the years. Gimme a Jap rice burner any day. I don't have any comfort in driving a Ford or a Dodge, hell, even a Chevy. Owned them all... hated them all. Put more money into repairs than anyone should ever have to. Got 125K on my 02 Yoda and running like new. If the 'Big 3' can hand that kind of reliability on every truck.. maybe I would by one again. Until then... 'Filler up with rice'.
R
RACKMASTER
Guest
UNION SAID THEY WON'T GIVE ANYTHING UP YESTERDAY!
GM wages +benefits= 80hours in USA
Toyota wages = benefits 38hours in USA!
RM
GM wages +benefits= 80hours in USA
Toyota wages = benefits 38hours in USA!
RM
>UNION SAID THEY WON'T GIVE ANYTHING
>UP YESTERDAY!
>GM wages +benefits= 80hours in USA
>
>Toyota wages = benefits 38hours in
>USA!
>RM
Yeah, UWA $78 an hour all together.
Toyota $42 an hour altogether.
I wish I made $42 an hour.
They need to fail and redo they're business model, get out from under the union contracts, sell off the trash, clean house and get new ceo's, etc.
Case in point on the business model. Ford builds a Fiesta that they sell in Europe, new vehicle, that has a 4 cylinder diesel and gets 65 mpg. The Ranger they sell in South America, 4 cylinder diesel gets 45 mpg. Now from what I understand is they won't sell them here because they have to have diesel mechanics or train they're existing techs to do both. Those techs will demand more money and of course now you have an entirely new parts lineup. They're geared and set up to build and service gas engines, not diesel. To service and build diesel would require a little expansion or retooling of gas plants. They just don't want to do it. So basically, they don't want to be competitive.
my .02
>UP YESTERDAY!
>GM wages +benefits= 80hours in USA
>
>Toyota wages = benefits 38hours in
>USA!
>RM
Yeah, UWA $78 an hour all together.
Toyota $42 an hour altogether.
I wish I made $42 an hour.
They need to fail and redo they're business model, get out from under the union contracts, sell off the trash, clean house and get new ceo's, etc.
Case in point on the business model. Ford builds a Fiesta that they sell in Europe, new vehicle, that has a 4 cylinder diesel and gets 65 mpg. The Ranger they sell in South America, 4 cylinder diesel gets 45 mpg. Now from what I understand is they won't sell them here because they have to have diesel mechanics or train they're existing techs to do both. Those techs will demand more money and of course now you have an entirely new parts lineup. They're geared and set up to build and service gas engines, not diesel. To service and build diesel would require a little expansion or retooling of gas plants. They just don't want to do it. So basically, they don't want to be competitive.
my .02
Union contracts and poor management that led to those contracts have the Big 3 in this mess. Not to mention management can't seem to see past the end of the week. If they couldn't see the pending gas price surge we recently had then I'm not sure what shareholders are getting in return for those multi-million dollar salaries.
I read yesterday that Asian car mfg's are going to build more cars in North America this year than Ford and Chrysler. If they can build fuel efficient reliable cars in North America and make a profit why can't the big 3?
I read yesterday that Asian car mfg's are going to build more cars in North America this year than Ford and Chrysler. If they can build fuel efficient reliable cars in North America and make a profit why can't the big 3?
P
Pappabull
Guest
I need a bail out.
eelgrass
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 31,712
Obama and the Dems are beholdin' to the big unions so.......
I'm almost positive they will get a bail out and a big chunk of that money will be used to fund the union benefits of past and present workers. If they use tax money to do that, I will never again buy a car from the big 3. I'll ride a bicycle first!
I heard an interview yesterday of a former auto union worker. He worked for 25 years and retired at age 55. He is now 86 years old and has drawn retirement pension for more years than he worked there.
Eel
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep THE CHANGE.
I'm almost positive they will get a bail out and a big chunk of that money will be used to fund the union benefits of past and present workers. If they use tax money to do that, I will never again buy a car from the big 3. I'll ride a bicycle first!
I heard an interview yesterday of a former auto union worker. He worked for 25 years and retired at age 55. He is now 86 years old and has drawn retirement pension for more years than he worked there.
Eel
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep THE CHANGE.
R
RACKMASTER
Guest
it cracks me up.....I see thing weird!
it's like giving herion to a junky who want's to quit
using and you dangle the ballon in front of him and say ....but 1st I need to have you write how you plan to use it you know slam it left arm, right ankle, smoke , snort!
the whole time the hype is Jones'n!
today at work starting 12/1 I take a 20 percent pay cut owner said!
rm
it's like giving herion to a junky who want's to quit
using and you dangle the ballon in front of him and say ....but 1st I need to have you write how you plan to use it you know slam it left arm, right ankle, smoke , snort!
the whole time the hype is Jones'n!
today at work starting 12/1 I take a 20 percent pay cut owner said!
rm
B
bobcatbess
Guest
SO JACKMASTA???
YOU GONNA HELP BAIL THEM OUT I SEE!!!
THINK THEY'LL GIVE YOU A NEW TRUCK FOR HELPING???
THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
YOU GONNA HELP BAIL THEM OUT I SEE!!!
THINK THEY'LL GIVE YOU A NEW TRUCK FOR HELPING???
THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,423
Bessy said-
"IF FORD DON'T STRAIGHTEN THEIR "POWERJOKE" UP THEY'LL BE IN THE HOLE SO FAR NOBODY WOULD CARE TO BAIL THEM OUT!!!"
PUNK SAYS-
Well, we can sure see how good the Cummins and Durapad did for Chrystler and GM, they are in deeper chit and Ford is!
(i know you still love me ;-))
"IF FORD DON'T STRAIGHTEN THEIR "POWERJOKE" UP THEY'LL BE IN THE HOLE SO FAR NOBODY WOULD CARE TO BAIL THEM OUT!!!"
PUNK SAYS-
Well, we can sure see how good the Cummins and Durapad did for Chrystler and GM, they are in deeper chit and Ford is!
(i know you still love me ;-))
B
bobcatbess
Guest
LOL PUNK!!!
JUST THINK!!!
IF GAS KEEPS COMING DOWN YOU'LL BE ABLE TO KEEP THE V-10 AROUND!!!
IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID TO MS PUNK AFTER YOU MENTIONED WHAT YOU WANT FOR CHRISTMAS???
THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
JUST THINK!!!
IF GAS KEEPS COMING DOWN YOU'LL BE ABLE TO KEEP THE V-10 AROUND!!!
IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID TO MS PUNK AFTER YOU MENTIONED WHAT YOU WANT FOR CHRISTMAS???
THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
eelgrass
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 31,712
"today at work starting 12/1 I take a 20 percent pay cut owner said!
rm"
Jeeze RACK, sorry to hear that! I think a lot of us will have to sacrifice before this is over.
BOBCAT and slam, I think maybe the next V-10 will only have 4 cylinders? With a payload equal to one bale of hay?
Eel
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep THE CHANGE.
rm"
Jeeze RACK, sorry to hear that! I think a lot of us will have to sacrifice before this is over.
BOBCAT and slam, I think maybe the next V-10 will only have 4 cylinders? With a payload equal to one bale of hay?
Eel
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep THE CHANGE.
R
RACKMASTER
Guest
just think Brian when I get your age I will have at lease a few LE points to go get real Monsters on another plant!!!
unless the cost of rocket fuel quad triples!
Then BOBCATBESS will be whining about the silencer kits on the new Cabela's Jet Packs!
just think 88 years old and shooting laser rifle(no recoil), jet packs and computers and Internet surfing will be done with mental telepathy!(sorry bess no more CAPS issues)...
the only drawback will be that one of triplek kids will be the presadent!
rackmaster
unless the cost of rocket fuel quad triples!
Then BOBCATBESS will be whining about the silencer kits on the new Cabela's Jet Packs!
just think 88 years old and shooting laser rifle(no recoil), jet packs and computers and Internet surfing will be done with mental telepathy!(sorry bess no more CAPS issues)...
the only drawback will be that one of triplek kids will be the presadent!
rackmaster
RELH
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 17,534
LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-08 AT 10:03PM (MST)[p]I have to somewhat agree with Kingfish, where does it stop!!! GM was advised years ago to develope vehicles that would use less gas. They failed to listen and like the others continued to build gas guzzers because they were selling them like hotcakes.
Now comes the high gas-diesel problem and they can not give them away and do not have less gas using cars to take up the slack sales on the guzzers.
But Congress will look at the votes in those states and do a bailout after a pretense of making restrictions that will not amount to a hill of beans just like they did with the morgage companies and banks.
The auto workers union need to step up to the plate also and bear some of the cuts, but you can bet your bottom dollar that Congress will never ask them to do this for fear of losing their support. I remember back in the early 70,s when the plumbers union in New York took a good pay cut so they could work more months out of the year and make more money for the year by working on the new skyscrapers that were being built with non union plumbers.
RELH
Now comes the high gas-diesel problem and they can not give them away and do not have less gas using cars to take up the slack sales on the guzzers.
But Congress will look at the votes in those states and do a bailout after a pretense of making restrictions that will not amount to a hill of beans just like they did with the morgage companies and banks.
The auto workers union need to step up to the plate also and bear some of the cuts, but you can bet your bottom dollar that Congress will never ask them to do this for fear of losing their support. I remember back in the early 70,s when the plumbers union in New York took a good pay cut so they could work more months out of the year and make more money for the year by working on the new skyscrapers that were being built with non union plumbers.
RELH
M
manny15
Guest
well Dodge n Ford are still sellin 'em @ a 50% discount here in Oregon, just makes yah womder on the profit margin......
H
Huck58
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-08 AT 09:31AM (MST)[p]Let 'em sink! GM is advertising the "Red Tag" event, some are discounted $5k or $6k, and you know what, they are still making a profit at the reduced prices, lower them more or bigger rebates! I read once back in the late 90's, GM's "average" profit margine was $6000.
Yeah time to file and reorganize!
Yeah time to file and reorganize!
H
Huck58
Guest
>>UNION SAID THEY WON'T GIVE ANYTHING
>>UP YESTERDAY!
>>GM wages +benefits= 80hours in USA
>>
>>Toyota wages = benefits 38hours in
>>USA!
>>RM
>
>
>Yeah, UWA $78 an hour all
>together.
>
>Toyota $42 an hour altogether.
>
>I wish I made $42 an
>hour.
>
>They need to fail and redo
>they're business model, get out
>from under the union contracts,
>sell off the trash, clean
>house and get new ceo's,
>etc.
>
>Case in point on the business
>model. Ford builds a Fiesta
>that they sell in Europe,
>new vehicle, that has a
>4 cylinder diesel and gets
>65 mpg. The Ranger they
>sell in South America, 4
>cylinder diesel gets 45 mpg.
>Now from what I understand
>is they won't sell them
>here because they have to
>have diesel mechanics or train
>they're existing techs to do
>both. Those techs will demand
>more money and of course
>now you have an entirely
>new parts lineup. They're geared
>and set up to build
>and service gas engines, not
>diesel. To service and build
>diesel would require a little
>expansion or retooling of gas
>plants. They just don't want
>to do it. So basically,
>they don't want to be
>competitive.
>
>my .02
I would buy a 4x4 ranger diesel if it got 40mpg!
Those wages include all expenses, health care, retirement, paid holidays and vacation. That figure is better than double, their dollar per hour wage. I am billed out at a break even rate, $105 per hour. But I don't put 1/3 of that in my pocket.
>>UP YESTERDAY!
>>GM wages +benefits= 80hours in USA
>>
>>Toyota wages = benefits 38hours in
>>USA!
>>RM
>
>
>Yeah, UWA $78 an hour all
>together.
>
>Toyota $42 an hour altogether.
>
>I wish I made $42 an
>hour.
>
>They need to fail and redo
>they're business model, get out
>from under the union contracts,
>sell off the trash, clean
>house and get new ceo's,
>etc.
>
>Case in point on the business
>model. Ford builds a Fiesta
>that they sell in Europe,
>new vehicle, that has a
>4 cylinder diesel and gets
>65 mpg. The Ranger they
>sell in South America, 4
>cylinder diesel gets 45 mpg.
>Now from what I understand
>is they won't sell them
>here because they have to
>have diesel mechanics or train
>they're existing techs to do
>both. Those techs will demand
>more money and of course
>now you have an entirely
>new parts lineup. They're geared
>and set up to build
>and service gas engines, not
>diesel. To service and build
>diesel would require a little
>expansion or retooling of gas
>plants. They just don't want
>to do it. So basically,
>they don't want to be
>competitive.
>
>my .02
I would buy a 4x4 ranger diesel if it got 40mpg!
Those wages include all expenses, health care, retirement, paid holidays and vacation. That figure is better than double, their dollar per hour wage. I am billed out at a break even rate, $105 per hour. But I don't put 1/3 of that in my pocket.
F
Frontier
Guest
RE: Who said they weren't smart ?
Last I heard Ford won't be taking the bailout, if they don't I may become a Ford man.
eelgrass hit it, the Dem's owe the union. The UAW donated a billion dollars all toll in the last elections, do you think they are going to let the unions go under, no way!
It's hard for the big 3 to build the kind of vehicles we want when they have the wages and entitlement obligations that they currently have thanks to the UAW, that's why I'm in favor of chapter 11. The Dem's want you to think that if they take chapter 11 it would mean a disaster econimonically, hogwash. The airlines did and look at them, they are as healthy as ever and operated just fine under chapter eleven.
Last I heard Ford won't be taking the bailout, if they don't I may become a Ford man.
eelgrass hit it, the Dem's owe the union. The UAW donated a billion dollars all toll in the last elections, do you think they are going to let the unions go under, no way!
It's hard for the big 3 to build the kind of vehicles we want when they have the wages and entitlement obligations that they currently have thanks to the UAW, that's why I'm in favor of chapter 11. The Dem's want you to think that if they take chapter 11 it would mean a disaster econimonically, hogwash. The airlines did and look at them, they are as healthy as ever and operated just fine under chapter eleven.
M
manny15
Guest
RE: Who said they weren't smart ?
> Last
>I heard Ford won't be
>taking the bailout, if they
>don't I may become a
>Ford man.
>
> eelgrass
>hit it, the Dem's owe
>the union. The UAW donated
>a billion dollars all toll
>in the last elections, do
>you think they are going
>to let the unions go
>under, no way!
>
> It's
>hard for the big 3
>to build the kind of
>vehicles we want when they
>have the wages and entitlement
>obligations that they currently have
>thanks to the UAW, that's
>why I'm in favor of
>chapter 11. The Dem's want
>you to think that if
>they take chapter 11 it
>would mean a disaster econimonically,
>hogwash. The airlines did and
>look at them, they are
>as healthy as ever and
>operated just fine under chapter
>eleven.
Ford is holding off for now, but want to use it in the future as an open line of credit, heard from Mr. Ford Jr.
> Last
>I heard Ford won't be
>taking the bailout, if they
>don't I may become a
>Ford man.
>
> eelgrass
>hit it, the Dem's owe
>the union. The UAW donated
>a billion dollars all toll
>in the last elections, do
>you think they are going
>to let the unions go
>under, no way!
>
> It's
>hard for the big 3
>to build the kind of
>vehicles we want when they
>have the wages and entitlement
>obligations that they currently have
>thanks to the UAW, that's
>why I'm in favor of
>chapter 11. The Dem's want
>you to think that if
>they take chapter 11 it
>would mean a disaster econimonically,
>hogwash. The airlines did and
>look at them, they are
>as healthy as ever and
>operated just fine under chapter
>eleven.
Ford is holding off for now, but want to use it in the future as an open line of credit, heard from Mr. Ford Jr.
D
desertdeer
Guest
RE: Who said they weren't smart ?
I used to work in a ford dealership as a diesel tech. I made 21.50 an hour the labor rate charged to the customer was 98 dollars an hour. The labor rate for warranty work was about the same charged to ford.. The dealership pays ford for the vehicles they sell long before they sell them to a customer. They then sell them to a consumer and collect a rebate from ford for each vehicle sold. This cuts into fords profits. So all I'm saying is even though you see the dealership making money that doesn't make its way back to ford. With the money they pay to make the vehicles and then pay to the dealership for warranty repairs I can see why they lose money on each vehicle they sell. The fact is profit margins are higher for the foreign automakers they build cars cheaper and charge their dealerships more for them. They are in demand enough that they don't have to offer huge rebates to customers to buy them. And they still sell. Stories like the one above about getting retirement and benifits for longer than they contributed is why American automakers are in the trouble they are. So remember the employees working now are basically paying for those who came before them. How can they not pay the retirement and benifits for their workers. Its a losing battle that the foreigners haven't had to face yet. There is no doubt the big three are mismanaged but that's not the only problem here.
I used to work in a ford dealership as a diesel tech. I made 21.50 an hour the labor rate charged to the customer was 98 dollars an hour. The labor rate for warranty work was about the same charged to ford.. The dealership pays ford for the vehicles they sell long before they sell them to a customer. They then sell them to a consumer and collect a rebate from ford for each vehicle sold. This cuts into fords profits. So all I'm saying is even though you see the dealership making money that doesn't make its way back to ford. With the money they pay to make the vehicles and then pay to the dealership for warranty repairs I can see why they lose money on each vehicle they sell. The fact is profit margins are higher for the foreign automakers they build cars cheaper and charge their dealerships more for them. They are in demand enough that they don't have to offer huge rebates to customers to buy them. And they still sell. Stories like the one above about getting retirement and benifits for longer than they contributed is why American automakers are in the trouble they are. So remember the employees working now are basically paying for those who came before them. How can they not pay the retirement and benifits for their workers. Its a losing battle that the foreigners haven't had to face yet. There is no doubt the big three are mismanaged but that's not the only problem here.
eelgrass
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 31,712
The Senate voted the bail out down, but Bush did an end around and will use TARP money to keep them alive until he leaves office. Then he will fade off into the sunset, and let Obama deal with it.
Bush acted more like a dictator than a president.
Eel
President Obama and Congress should leave gun rights alone. It's above their pay grade.
Bush acted more like a dictator than a president.
Eel
President Obama and Congress should leave gun rights alone. It's above their pay grade.
C
CATRACK
Guest
RE: Who said they weren't smart ?
>Nope!!!Build a better product or go
>out of business. Toyota, Nissan,
>and Honda proved it can
>be done...
Kingfish, I'm with you, I love my DODGE pickups but if your
company(s) is in this much trouble this soon,probably
is not run right to start with.
I own a small company and feel the pinch but they
have not called me for any bailout yet!!
CATRACK
>Nope!!!Build a better product or go
>out of business. Toyota, Nissan,
>and Honda proved it can
>be done...
Kingfish, I'm with you, I love my DODGE pickups but if your
company(s) is in this much trouble this soon,probably
is not run right to start with.
I own a small company and feel the pinch but they
have not called me for any bailout yet!!
CATRACK
