ANYBODY KNOW HIM???

[elkassassin]

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30431791&ni...ophy-elk-poaching&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory







[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[DeerMadness]

So the Father wasn't part of the deal also?

 

[elkassassin]

Nope!

I Guess not!








[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[eelgrass]

Sounds like the 'ol father/son party hunting thing. Can't do that now days. Tough lesson.

Eel

 

[ZIGGER]

...so what is news here??.......utards are always on here talking about applying every eligible family member.... ....poor old granny's have no doubt killed alot of utah bulls....

 

[TOPGUN]

The Father shoud have been brought up on charges and given the same jail sentence and loss of licenses for allowing his tag to be used illegally!

 

[elkassassin]

I didn't ask if anybody NEW Him!

I said KNEW?

Yup!

Mention you put a Few People in on your Own Charge Card & You're an Immediate #####!

No Granny's though!

Remember the 93 old Granny that got a Mt Timp Goat a few years back?












[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[BOBCATBOSS]

AND TO THINK HE JUST WANTED HIS LOOK AT ME
MOMENT.

WE SEE YA NOW PLICK!!!



THE ONLY BOBCAT.

 

[shotgun1]

I'm with Zigger. What's news here? Just Utards being Utards.

 

[elkassassin]

>I'm with Zigger. What's news here?
>Just Utards being Utards.

You Boys need to be Nice!

Just because Party 'Hunting/Filling Granny's Tag First' was Pioneered here in TARDville doesn't make up for the Number of Mules Hauled back to KALI on the Front Bumpers!












[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[2_Point]

The idiots in Utah just made party hunting legal.
Teach them from a young age to shoot animals on family tags.

 

[llamapacker]

And party hunting WAS legal in Utah for a number of years. Not all that long ago, either. And now it is again legal for youth.

And this guy is now a convicted poacher.

I don't agree with the party hunting mentality and practice, in this and many other parts of the country (including some places where it is still legal), but I still don't generally associate "poaching" with party hunting. And I don't think the general public makes any distinction, if they are even paying attention. Certainly not the newspaper. Just another way to smear hunting to the general public.
Bill

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-14 AT 07:10AM (MST)[p]Might one of you explain this party hunting " now legal for youth" deal in Utah when this guy gets busted for using a family tag. Now it sounds like as long as you're a certain age it's fine and if you're older you're a violator. What the he** gives out there?!

 

[elkun]

what gives is more money for the dwr.more of utahs big time management!!!

 

[TOPGUN]

>what gives is more money
>for the dwr.more of utahs
>big time management!!!


***That may well be, but what is the actual deal now about youth being able to party hunt? Can someone please explain the facts of this youth deal and how it works?

 

[grizzly]

>>what gives is more money
>>for the dwr.more of utahs
>>big time management!!!
>
>
>***That may well be, but what
>is the actual deal now
>about youth being able to
>party hunt? Can someone
>please explain the facts of
>this youth deal and how
>it works?

A parent or grandparent can now transfer their tag to a minor as long as they are in a "mentor" position while hunting. Basically Junior can shoot grandpa's deer as long as grandpa is in the truck or wheeler with him.

The point the above post was making was that this incident only was illegal because of the age of the shooter.

For the record, I fought against this law. It only was enacted so people would apply parents/grandparents who never intend to hunt just so future/unborn grandkids can get tags. Terrible money-grubbing idea.

Grizzly

 

[stanley]

Party hunting? How is this anything like party hunting?

The way I read it is that the guy didn't have a permit to hunt, but killed a bull anyway. He then used his dad's tag. Poaching, plane and simple IMO.

I thought party hunting was more like; Several guys (or two) have tags for the same area and everyone keeps shooting/killing critters until enough critters have been killed to use-up all of the tags.

Maybe splitting hairs, but since this dosn't sound like 'party hunting' to me.

S.

 

[Downrange]

Just wait until you see what it does to all our odds lots more aunts, uncles, cousins applying and youth shooting their deer.

 

[BrowningRage]

I have to agree with edwardsc. I think the number of adults applying for tags will increase on the basis that they will let a youth in their family shoot the animal. There will some lucky youths out there that will get to hunt some premium hunts in the state before they are an adult, and then they will have to wait out the point creeps for the rest of their lives, never to hunt an LE unit again...

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[NVBighorn]

Damm yoofs anyway


I'm with Stanley here. Poacher not party hunting.


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]

 

[TOPGUN]

>Damm yoofs anyway
>
>
>I'm with Stanley here. Poacher not
>party hunting.
>
>
>[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I
>just stir it.[/font]


Sounds like some say it's just a technicality if the guy used his Dad's tag and got busted and is now called a poacher, but if he was younger his Dad could have let him do it legally under this youth mentoring BS! If a person doesn't draw the tag under their own name, IMHO they should not be shooting an animal! Therefore, I'm against that youth tag transferral program for reasons stated by the other members, but also feel the guy knew the existing law and should have been nailed like he was because it was a definite violation. It sure doesn't make much sense to me that just because of your age you can or can't use a tag somebody else got in their name.

 

[elkassassin]

People really Got PISSED when they found out I got Hit on my Credit Card this year & I never drew a Tag!

All I can say is:

Great Granny is Going Huntin this year!}>}>}>








[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[llamapacker]

There is a long tradition of elk hunting in Utah being a family affair. Not saying it is right, and will actually say it is wrong, but that doesn't change the tradition.
LE Bull elk tags are hard to get, and basically a once in a lifetime tag (maybe, maybe twice) in Utah. When anybody in the family draws a tag, everybody goes hunting with them. Some call it posse hunting. Very, very common to see 10 or more (even 20+) people out scouting, riding ATV's, using radios, etc., to contact the lucky tag holder to come shoot the best bull found. Strange to me, and not my cup of tea, but exceedingly common in Utah, where large extended families are common.

For adults, only the tag holder in the family can actually pull the trigger, legally. Don't think this is the first time that another member of the hunting party actually took the shot, however, and uncle, aunt, granny, brother, cousin, father, whomever tagged the animal, however. This practice is illegal, and called poaching by the DWR. In most all cases, there is only one tag in the family on a given year, and only one bull is shot. Still is is illegal if an adult other than the tag holder pulls the trigger, even if everybody is standing around together.

It is legal, however, for a youth to use the adults tag and become the one who pulls the trigger- completely legally. He then puts dad's, uncles, etc., tag on the critter and this is entirely legal. The tag holder does have to be present as a "mentor".

This is a terrible law, and should not have been enacted. In the story mentioned, the son who shot the bull was NOT a youth, so therefore could not legally fill his Dad's tag. If he was younger, it would have been legal. No doubt he knew it was illegal, and has been punished. It just seems like it muddies the water when youth can do this legally, but if you are one day too old it is suddenly poaching.

My vote is to eliminate this practice all together. And illegal or not, it still seems far different than the guy who poaches an elk outside the season (or two, or three), or in an area where there is no tag. Just an interesting way to confuse the situation and make it a mess for public perception.
Bill

 

[huntin50]

Party hunting used to be a common practice. I don't think it's very common for the most part, but does happen.

I disagree with lamapacker. THe Junior mentor is a good program. It has worked well in ID for years. Yes there are some that may abuse it. We need to get young kids involved and exciting about hunting and fishing for our sport to survive, or we will be more of a minority that we already are.

One example I have a 15 year old that likes to fish and hunt. I drew a brear tag after 10 years of applying. I have shot two bears in the past, not too exciting about having another rug. My 15 years old was thrilled when I said we could buy a mentor license so that either he or I could kill a bear, we could hant together and have a good time.

We will see how the program works out.

 

[grizzly]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-14 AT 01:39PM (MST)[p]huntin50, I knew Idaho had reduced price "mentor" tags for youth on general OTC tags (when both grandma and junior each by a tag, just the youth one is at a reduced price)... but I wasn't aware that kids could shoot a sheep or other draw species on grandma's tag, so only one tag is needed. Is that the case?

(PS. I tried to look it up on my own, but the website is crashed since they just posted deer results.)

I would also argue that since Idaho doesn't have a point system, it isn't really a straight comparison, but that is besides the point.

Grizzly

:edited for clarity

 

[huntin50]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-14 AT 03:11PM (MST)[p]Grizzly,

You are correct. ID has a junior mentor program, and a parent can't give their tag to a child. The ID mentor program was intended to recruit hunters, to help the DWR survive. If I hunt in ID it cost 300-450 for non res deer or elk tags but a junior mentor would cost about 30-50 dollars. This is a way to get kids involved. Reseaech tells us if kids don't get started early enough in the sport, they likely wont.

AZ has a junior mentor program, where a parent can transfer a tag to their kid.

I like UT law. Both can hunt. One animal possibly killed. Get kids involved. IMO

TO have a son in his 40's he should know and follow the law. I don't know all the facts.

 

[llamapacker]

If we were talking low demand, general season tags I might be OK with a mentor program. That isn't the case. The best analogy is a sheep or moose tag in Idaho. Idaho does NOT have a mentor program for these tags. You don't need a moose tag to recruit kids, nor a LE elk tag in Idaho or Utah.
Kids are perfectly fine shooting does, small bucks, raghorns, etc. Let's not forget that for a kid, it truly is about the hunt, and not the horns. It is "horn greed" that leads to the problems like in this story. Junior shoots a big bull for Pop, even if he is 40+ years old. He wouldn't have done it if it was a cow or raghorn.

I have hunted with my boys in Idaho using their mentor program. I bought my NR tag, and paid for additional reduced price tags for them. We all hunted together in a relatively short, general season unit, and while we had some good success, everybody had their own tag, and the liklihood of all of us filling those tags in a short hunt was low. Yes, I "sacrificed" my hunt to help get them involved. (In reality, it wasn't a sacrifice, and I enjoyed these hunts immensely.) Not even a close comparison to the Utah program that lets every aunt, uncle and grandparent apply for the most coveted tags, just to get junior a bragging size LE bull. The kid will likely be no happier than if he shot a spike, and in fact this type of tag may set his expectations too high for the future. How many are going to give up after shooting the biggest bull they will ever see, knowing that public land general season hunting is all they have in their future? (Unless of course Aunt Edna can draw the same tag next year, and they get to keep doing trophy hunts until they are too old.) And what about the kid who comes from a small family, and doesn't have 26 relatives applying for an LE tag for him each year. How is he supposed to feel?
You have to look past the feel good motives to understand what is wrong with this program. If this program was limited to antlerless tags or undersubscribed hunts it wouldn't be nearly as controversial.
Bill

 

[buckhorn]

I agree with llamapacker on this one. High potential for abuse.
Also agree that the Junior hunts could tend to backfire.
My son killed a good Buck on the Arizona junior tag in 12a east. Also two other great junior hunts in Nevada, all by the age of 14.
Now he doesn't want to hunt general seasons because the junior hunts he had spoiled him.

 

[TOPGUN]

>I agree with llamapacker on this
>one. High potential for abuse.
>
>Also agree that the Junior hunts
>could tend to backfire.
> My son killed a good
>Buck on the Arizona junior
>tag in 12a east. Also
>two other great junior hunts
>in Nevada, all by the
>age of 14.
> Now he doesn't want to
>hunt general seasons because the
>junior hunts he had spoiled
>him.



This is very symptomatic of our society nowadays! Give little Johnny and Suzey Q anything their little heart desires with no effort put out to get what they want or just to get them out of their parent's hair. It's no wonder we have all the problems we have when so many grow up in an environment that the world owes them a living!

 

[huntin50]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-14 AT 12:41PM (MST)[p]llama,

I agree with some of your comments. Yes there can be some abuse. I would have the mentor program not involve grandparents. The liklehood of a grandma having enough points to draw a great LE deer or elk tag, or OIL tag is low since they started the mentor program. The non hunting grandma would still need to buy a license and points every year, with a slim chance of drawing a great tag.

If I draw a LE elk in UT, I like the idea of hunting for a 360 plus bull and if that doesn't work let my 15 or 16 year old shoot a 330 type bull. He has already shot 4 bucks, 2 lopes, and an elk. I have shot enough 330 class bulls. He is so far behind in points he may not draw for a long time. Just my thoughts.

 

[2_Point]

Add 2 grandmas and 2 grandpas from our family to the odds.

Yes, let's have the kids shoot those puny 330 bulls. Heaven help the future of hunting and what they are being taught.