any auto workers out there ?

M

manny15

Guest
just heard how much those line workers make, $28.oo an hour, sheeze, now you know why your big trucks cost so much, toyota pays $18.00 n thats a fair pay, there not needing a bail out! Hmmm...

take a pay cut there boys.......
 
Wonder what a good journeyman carpenter, plumber or mechanic makes in those same geographic areas.
 
not exactly sure of your point there, but a line worker is not exactly a skilled worker such as a carpenter or mechanic who actually use there brains n skills......
 
Don't pick on the line worker!!! If you want to change things start with the top not the bottom!!!! Not one of those guys making $28 bucks an hour are flying company jets...I understand your point but it's directed at the wrong people...
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-08 AT 10:23AM (MST)[p]I have a layman mentality, my mind can only grasp so much, since I'm a simple man I put my focus there, but in reality its a chain reaction...we're all linked....

over paid is over paid as I stated Toyota pays $18.00 PH....
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-08 AT 11:14AM (MST)[p]Manny, my point is, among other things, that you don't know the cost of living in those areas, you don't know the prevailing wages for all jobs in those areas, you don't know the skill level required in the assembly of an automobile. You only know that compared to some standard you have in your mind, perhaps tied to your own occupation, skill level, and geographoc area, these people are over paid. You don't know the whole story. Neither do I. I do agree with Kingfish though. Having worked in a manufacturing business of large corporate magnitude, the real fat to be cut is at the top, not the bottom.
 
Not defending or against the auto workers, but remember that a large sum of that wage goes to the UAW. I know so folks who work for GM and I believe close to 25% goes to the union. They are the real crooks. The big 3 are failing as a result of the economy, and the union. They still build a great product, but nobody can afford. They need to stop negotiating with the UAW and bring in some scabs until the union dissolves. Then hire the workers back at the appropriate wage. The workers would probably end up taking home more.

Everybody wins
 
So us taxpayers should pay the over inflated salaries,
when Toyota, pays substantially less & produces a better product... WTF
 
Unions are a joke. I would be very interested to see how many of our resident union supporters are cruisin' around in a foreign car because it is a better value. I'm always amazed at how there exist a huge number of supporters of extorted union wages who are unwilling to buy a vehicle from the big three. While I am absolutely no supporter of unions as they exist today I have always supported the big three when making a vehicle purchase. I always make an overt effort to buy domestic products to the extent that it is possible.

Unions are absolutely a big part of the reason domestic car makers have struggled to compete. As far as upper administration vs. line workers, well, you cannot have one without the other and unless concessions are made on ALL LEVELS you are going to have: 1. A bankrupt company. 2. A company that is not bankrupt only because a government entity poured excessive amounts of cash into them.
 
The problem with the big three as far as labor is concerned is being able to complete with Toyota, Honda and the other companies operating in the south. The big three have a cost of around $72 per hour for benefits, salary, and retirement. The other auto makers are paying around $40 per hour. It's kind of hard to compete with those numbers. Yes, the big wigs are being paid too much for what they have accomplished, but... there are only a few big wigs in each company. There are hundreds of thousands of auto workers, something has to give or they won't have jobs anymore. I know it will be tough for them and the unions to swallow, but I don't see any other way to make it work....they have to get in line with the other auto manufactures wage scales.
 
I am not saying we should foot the bill for inflated salaries. The unions are taking all the money not the workers. I am saying the big 3 need to force out the unions and then their labor rates would be in line. Push out the UAW and they wouldn't be cash strapped.

Something to consider as you talk about us taxpayers bailing them out. Unemployment is forecasted to climb to over 9.5%, if the big 3 were to fail, the fallout would hit all local communities. The dealerships, vendors, mechanics, financial services, and anyone with retirment investments.

The few tax dollars it would cost to bail them out will be far fewer than you will lose if we don't.

It sucks but it's true. the ramifications are far reaching. It's easy to say you'll be fine, but what about your neighbors, or your nieces and nephews. It will impact everyone in some way.
 
I am not a supporter of unions as they exist today either. Or foreign made cars either for that matter. In fact when I look around my ranch I see four Chevys, two Fords and a Dodge. I do think the unions are a big part of the problem and probably get a big junk of that 28 bucks. I don't however, believe for one miniute that the line workers are going to see a dime of any bail out money. And I doubt seriously it will directly put people back to work. Only increased demand for cars can do that and only a brighter economic outlook will make that happen. That bail out money is going to go to pay off debt and get their EBIT numbers up so people in the stock market will have confidence and buy shares and the share price and earnings will go up and the CEOs will get their bonuses because they performed on their promises. And, and ,and... same old same old.

Notice I say "outlook" because so much (not all) of today's problems are purely based on outlook. Like the other day when they announced the recession had been actually going on since last December. Stock market took a big tumble. Why? Nothing had changed. The recession had been going on since last December the previous five up days too.
 
It's hard to sympathize when there are so many of us that have been laid off or lost good jobs when companies collapsed. Nobody was there to dust us off or bail us out.

It sux and I do feel for the workers and there families but it is what it is, deal with it.
 
the workers are just doing what they have been told ,,,, everything else comes from the brass be it company brass or union brass,,,,, these guys get bailed out the brass will get a raise and some of the workers will get laid off not the brass,,,,

hey manny, i bet if you were a auto worker you would be singing a differant canary tune,,,, talk about brotherly love geeze
 
BB,

I have to agree with you. I was notified this week that I am being laid off at Washington Mutual. I came from Providian and our revenue has held strong. I am loosing my job because we were bought out by a failing company, and then bought by a power monger. I guess I look at it from the other side though. I know how this affects me, and don't want to see another 100K people go through it. Especially when many of them don't have other skills. At least I have some market value. They will struggle to ever find another meaningful job.

The reality is this, we are on the brink of financial meltdown. It sucks, but our tax dollars are going to be used to correct that. We have to keep those jobs at home. Put a 100K line workers out of a job, and watch the crime rate.
 
I dont blame those guys for taking the money. I would in their position as well.

However, Capitalism needs to be reintroduced to the American Auto industry. Changes need to be made from top to bottom.

Pretty interesting that Toyota can make a product that is 3X better and built in our country.

Every year, the big 3 sell sizzle and not the steak. Hard to believe that anyone is still stupid enough to believe their marketing and buy their junk. They tell you how it is better quality "like a rock" and all their other zingers and the suckers go for it.
 
+1 NMPaul. In my opinion, we either bail everybody out, or nobody out. No playing favorites. If you bail everybody out, then lets just get this over with and surrender to socialism/communism now. I personally don't think that's acceptable.

Quit making these folks exempt from their own bad decisions.

Yes, it may hurt some of us in the short run. But if we keep bailing everyone out that makes bad decisions, those making the decisions will never have any incentive to change their bad behavior, and it will end up hurting all of us even more in the long run.
 
These are uncertain times. As the owner of a small plumbing contracting business, i can speak some of the plight of a construction guy. We get paid for what we know a well as how hard we work or what we can get done. I'm lucky to have a strong background in several trades as well as a license for plumbing, still, there is very little work.

Some have beem "off" for a year, some for months, my phone hasn't rang for a week. There are no beni's in construction. Top hand might get $35/hr while the entry guy might start for $10. You work for what you're worth, you get paid, no promises for next week let alone next year. If work is slow as it is now, many/most get sent home. As a business owner, the bills keep coming, there's no unemployment, no golden handshake, no nothing. These are very uncertain times!!

Joey
 
Just saw on TV where the Auto makers payed 50 million to lobbies in the 1st 9 months.
They need to go broke just like everybody else. Pick up the pieces that make money and go on from there. Just like everybody else.

It's not the 28/hr. It's the other 28/hr for medical, dental, vision, vacation, personal days, and retirement.
 
Actually cars and trucks are all built a whole lot better now than they used to be. I can remember when a car had 100K miles it was shot. Trannys were good for about 60K and you needed a complete brake job after about 20K. Now, my Toyota truck doesn't even need spark plugs until 100K! That's one of the problems, we don't need to buy a new car every three years any more. The market is flooded, especially with a cash/credit poor population.

A lot of people are going to suffer in the times ahead, not just the auto workers.

I'm worried.

Eel

President Obama and Congress should leave gun rights alone. It's above their pay grade.
 
As you should be Eel!

Jeezus Manny! I'd rather pay some hard working union line dude $28.00 per hour than a bible thumper .25 for a lesson on how crappy my life is. Move on dude, god doesn't give a crap about you.

RUS
 
bible thumper...now thats funny!
see the News Clips on those line chimps? (gawd al'mighty)
they move very slow and have glazed looks on their faces...
I say close half the plants and dealers and teach them to pull teeth, pave a road, pick up cig butt's-trucker bombs along the freeway or rebuild Orleans!
rm
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-08 AT 09:05PM (MST)[p]Congratulations YAKMASTER! Have you actually worked for a living?? I have! 27 years in a union. Actually made my company money. All I can say is good job UAW workers ... it sure as hell ain't their fault GM, FORD and CRYSTLER are going down the toilet. What do you do that benefits your fellow man YAKBOY?

RUS
 
I to have been union ..I.A.M buddy 10 years in as a machinist..

17 years ago! all them shop are no longer in biz! We will see what 10 years is worth in another 15! I always thought it was companies that were screwing the unions and unions who screwed us! crap rolls
down hill! now unions are not going to bend enough to help and its now the down fall of the UAW and uncle sugar won't bail them out with out the unions flexing long term!
times are going to be real tough for OJ.... hope he drop's the soap in the general population shower during skin head shaving night!
and that's the feeling UAW members are going to experience very soon!
rm
 
Okay so ??? Say that the government gives the 25 Billion dollar loan out and the auto industry can't pay it back do the tax payers take another hit in the shorts?? And pay their debt off I mean who else besides the government can bail an amount like that out? Isn't this just suppose to get the auto industry by until march 30th?? Even if the auto industry does get the money don't you guys think it is a little "wishfull thinking to think that things are going to get better from here on out? I mean look around things are going down hill econmically!! I know that this opinion has been stated already but I think too that there has been alot of smaller industrys that have fell face first and did not get any help I do feel dearly sorry for these people but I just don't think that they should be bailed out. To many bleeding hearts anymore!! Tough it out and learn from the mistakes that were made.
 
>As you should be Eel!
>
>Jeezus Manny! I'd rather pay some
>hard working union line dude
>$28.00 per hour than a
>bible thumper .25 for a
>lesson on how crappy my
>life is. Move on dude,
>god doesn't give a crap
>about you.
>
>RUS


What, R U insain! do you mean move on from MM.com ?.....you freak!
 
?What, R U insain! do you mean move on from MM.com ?.....you freak!?

Heck no Manny, this place wouldn't be any fun at all without you. I'm just trying to get a rise out of you and RACKMASTER.

Trade unions have been responsible for setting the standard for fair wage treatment, healthcare, worker safety on and on and on. Granted, periodically they get a little out of line but overall they have improved working conditions for all workers not just union members.

The big 3 auto companies have been struggling for several years now. Not because of the UAW but because of gross mismanagement of the companies. Now because of this weird economy the world is crashing down on them. I think you'll see the UAW make major concessions to help prop up these companies but what is really needed is they should restructure to make themselves more competitive in the world market. These government bailouts are only going to stop the bleeding for a short time. Sooner or later the auto, banking and other industries are going to have to figure out what's really wrong with their companies.

By the way, I think the trade unions are on their way out. Workers no longer think in terms of what is best for my fellow workers and the company. Everyone is just in it for themselves. I fear the worst is yet to come.

RUS-the freak
 
Greetings all, i am a long time lurker and rarely post

And I probably have a better perspective than most on the situation

I live in NE Indiana and our economy is dependent on the big three. I have been a manager in a UAW facility for 12 years and the last 10 years I have been an executive in a business where 80% of our work comes from the big three..

And yes i'm way concerned right now if i will have a job in six months.. It's ugly back here and not a lot of hope even with the bail outs...

Management and Labor in the Big Three are absolutely ridiculous and both bear the blame for the debacle...

Labor is greedy, lazy and self centered. Management is greedy, lazy and self centered.. Period

You go into an assembly or fab shop of Ford, GM and Chrysler and you will be disgusted by the lack of common sense..

Folks play cards and sleep for hours during their shift.. Happens every day and will happen on Monday. I've seen it for years and this is a fact..

Management watches and does nothing because of the "contract"

Management agreed to the contract and the same crap goes on with them.. Overloaded head count and very little real work being done..

They squeeze their efficiency and operating margins (in the past anyway :)) out of their suppliers.. Read the companies i've worked for.. Each year we have to figure out how to give back 3-5%. We've done this until we've outsourced and cut everyone else to the bone and the business is at risk..

The wages could be handled if there was efficiency and production and if all the legacy costs had been fully funded as they should have been in the fat years..

Management bears that responsibility, they paid in the minimums knowing full well it would come back to haunt them..

They are planning 100% to pass these legacy costs on to the PB & GC and restructure..

But they've pocketed a lot of cash and made themselves wealthy already..

The union has demanded sub pay: this means that if an employee is laid off they recieve 95% of their pay indefinitely.. I know folks who have literally been laid off for 5-7 years out of the last 20 and have loved it... Management was dumb enough to agree

again knowing full well this would come back to haunt them

well these chickens have come home to roost and us tax payers are going to pay the bill...

Congress will bail these Ba%^ards out and they will restructure and pass all the costs onto us...

And they will go back to getting rich.

I have to lean toward labors side even though they have a lot of guilt in this situation also

But I think they simply took advantage of what was there and who wouldn't...

If the big three would go under this country would end up in a major depression and who knows maybe social unrest and anarchy..

You all are insulated to a large degree in the west, but if you draw bracket from the PA, OH border to St Louis the effect in that region would be ungodly..

They are too big to fail and everyone knows it and there will be fortunes made on this bail out... When it is announced watch the ford and GM stock.. It's already moved up from the lows simply on the fact that these companies will have to be bailed out...

sorry for the long winded diatribe....

LH
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-08 AT 10:09AM (MST)[p]

OldRookie, sounds like thier due for a shake up anyays, back in the 80's i was in the painters union made $24.00hr now their making $30 sumtin.

I always been hyper, and getting the job done quickly was the result, one day i had the jobsite boss tell to slow down your making some of the guys look bad....

the union took $75 cents an hour outta my check for who knows what, then another 50 cents an hour for vaction pay....
 

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