Annual Monroe Bull Elk Count This Morning

[2lumpy]

Just returned from my annual bull elk count. I’ve been driving the exact same route for over 25 years. I keep the route the same every year, the week prior to the 4th of July. I started doing it back in the 1990s….. when I counted 104 bulls (most were branch antlered or larger. I began going just because it was fun to see so many mature elk on a single trip around the Big Lake/Deep Lake area, above my home.

For the first 6 or 7 years, the count was high every year, from a high of 104 and varied with lows in the high 80s. As time pasted the number began declining and eventually came down to where it running in the high 30s to the mid 50s. About 10 years ago it began dropping again and three years ago there were about 25. Two years ago there were only 5, last year it jumped back to 22. I was hoping things might be turning around again but alas, it was not to be this year.

I was at the cattle guard above Big Lake this morning and had to wait 10 minutes for enough light to proceed on the route. There were no elk of any kind in the Big Lake basin, none at Christensen Springs, none in Porter’s Pasture, none in Water Flat, none in Long Valley, none in Henries Hollow, none at Annebelle Reservoir and finally, none at Deep Lake. No bulls, no cows/calves and no yearlings.

3 buck deer and 21 does.

Kinda left me feeling a little melancholy.

Forage is at least great or maybe the best I ever seen…. across the entire north end of the mountain. Water standing in ever pot hole and in every hollow.

Never encountered a single vehicle the entire trip, it was 41 degrees and a bright blue sky this morning.

On ward and up ward gentlemen, and lady. Wishing everybody very happy 4th of July.

 

[WannaB]

That is rough. My buddy has a place in Koosharem and in the past we would routinely make drives up the mountain during the rut, but it isn't hardly worth the drive anymore. The unit has gone down hill ever since the pressure the Spider Bull/Internet has brought. Very Sad!

 

[elkantlers]

Nobody at the DWR ever said we actually need elk or deer to sell tags.

 

[heartshot]

That is tough. Thanks for sharing the info from your drive.

 

[elkhunter81]

Just returned from my annual bull elk count. I’ve been driving the exact same route for over 25 years. I keep the route the same every year, the week prior to the 4th of July. I started doing it back in the 1990s….. when I counted 104 bulls (most were branch antlered or larger. I began going just because it was fun to see so many mature elk on a single trip around the Big Lake/Deep Lake area, above my home.

For the first 6 or 7 years, the count was high every year, from a high of 104 and varied with lows in the high 80s. As time pasted the number began declining and eventually came down to where it running in the high 30s to the mid 50s. About 10 years ago it began dropping again and three years ago there were about 25. Two years ago there were only 5, last year it jumped back to 22. I was hoping things might be turning around again but alas, it was not to be this year.

I was at the cattle guard above Big Lake this morning and had to wait 10 minutes for enough light to proceed on the route. There were no elk of any kind in the Big Lake basin, none at Christensen Springs, none in Porter’s Pasture, none in Water Flat, none in Long Valley, none in Henries Hollow, none at Annebelle Reservoir and finally, none at Deep Lake. No bulls, no cows/calves and no yearlings.

3 buck deer and 21 does.

Kinda left me feeling a little melancholy.

Forage is at least great or maybe the best I ever seen…. across the entire north end of the mountain. Water standing in ever pot hole and in every hollow.

Never encountered a single vehicle the entire trip, it was 41 degrees and a bright blue sky this morning.

On ward and up ward gentlemen, and lady. Wishing everybody very happy 4th of July.

So what do you think is the problem too many cow tags? Did they kill all of the elk last year? Bull tags have been reduced and still haven't made it back to 2010 numbers. interesting to see what has happened with the herd. also as a selfish side note everyone please share this post with all of your friends and family next year could be my year for a Monroe tag

 

[Battlewagon]

Strange summary of elk status on north portion of Monroe Mtn. I was scouting a unit that is an open bull area this past weekend. In one loop drive, similar in distance of your loop, I saw one branch antlered bull, four spikes, and about 40 cows. However, I only saw one calf with the few nursery herds.

 

[llamapacker]

The habitat "improvement", err destruction, on the Monroe has had a big impact on the elk. Removing essentially all of the conifers has displaced the elk from the southern portion of the unit at a minimum. Sure, the aspens are doing great, but aspens alone are not the best habitat for elk.
Bill

 

[Battlewagon]

Forest management on Monroe seems conflicted. They cut all the aspen down on one side, and all the evergreens on the other.

 

[woodturner]

Your annual count is a terrific observation.
I believe this is just a small sample of what has happened everywhere in the west. Both with Elk populations and deer populations.
Good job.

 

[2lumpy]

So what do you think is the problem too many cow tags? Did they kill all of the elk last year? Bull tags have been reduced and still haven't made it back to 2010 numbers. interesting to see what has happened with the herd. also as a selfish side note everyone please share this post with all of your friends and family next year could be my year for a Monroe tag

Hope the little white marble drops on your number next year elkhunter81.

I will only share the things I know first hand that have changed on the Monroe since those large numbers of bulls where counted……. and their cow elk were on the Monroe. Which one of those changes or which combination of changes has influenced the numbers, anyone’s guess. I suppose.

Let me add a footnote here, I spoke with a gentleman from Richfield after I posted this report this morning. About 15 years ago he was the Chairman of the Wildlife Board here in Utah, so he’s extremely well connected to a lot of local hunters that share current information with him because they believe he is credible and he knows a lot about our area wildlife. He told me he’s had more than one person tell him they are having difficulty finding elk on the south end of the unit this year as well. That area would be above Otter Creek and around to Marysville).

So…… what’s changed.

The elk began showing up on the Monroe in the late 1970, early 1980’s. By the late 80s and early 90 the numbers of elk were increasing fairly well. After the F&G began its Spike Only program they managed the Monroe for a harvest average of 7-8 years on their Limited Entry Bull hunts. (This was done primarily by limiting the number of tags sold, AND by not issuing any spike tags.

The population continued to increase and fawn vs cow ratios increased, the numbers grew.

Antlerless elk hunts started being sold.

A mountain ranch was subdivided and 40/50 cabins have been built on the north end of the unit and more have been built on the top and south central part of the unit.

I can’t remember which came first but some time in the 2000s the F&G increased the number of Limited Bull Elk tags, to bring the average harvest down to 5-6 years.

A wild fire burnt a large acreage off the north west face of the unit. Natural Aspen reforestation has been clearly visible.

F&G began to sell spike elk tags for the Monroe, for all weapons.

Any weapon hunts for spike elk were again removed for a few years (3 or 4).

F&G began selling Any Weapon spike elk tags again.

In or about 2015 the U.S. Forest Service, started a spruce/beatle kill pine control burning project that will eventually reforest some 89,000 acres, in the last 6-7 years many thousand acres have been burned and some plots now have 8 foot tall aspens growing prolifically. Some plots are high fences to keep elk and livestock out until the aspen can become established, some plots are not fenced.

Burn plots have been spread out across the unit to keep elk from congregating on any one aspen regrowth area, to prevent over grazing the tender young aspen trees.

Prior to this project starting the F&G, began issuing extra tags to reduced the elk population on the unit. At one time there where approximately 1,500 head, I’ve heard there are under 900 head now, but I haven’t attempted to verify either of those numbers.

Road access has always been rougher than adjacent units and they still are.

We’ve had extreme drought years and extreme wet years. More dry than wet years.

Public pressure has increased due to 4 wheeler/side by side traffic….. way way more pressure from recreational users. Livestock operators and their AUM have stayed pretty much the same with a few days per year lost on a few of the bad drought years.

There are likely a few other changes that I’ve over looked but those are a fairly close list.

Plenty of reasons for changes in the elk population and clearly, it’s showed.

I don’t even want to talk about the mule deer, I’m sure you understand way.

 

[2lumpy]

Regarding the aspen project.

Nothing is growing under the dense spruce and pine forest. No grass, that is for sure. Elk don’t live on aspens but they do eat the tender young shouts that first year. Eating the aspen sprout in the first and second year will kill that tree forever after a burn or a mechanical disturbance to the mature aspen’s roots, which is which triggers reforestation (so they say). That’s why they try to keep livestock and wildlife off until they are 4 or 5 years old.

It’s true elk don’t eat aspens. as their primary food source, but of course they do eat grass and grass will grow thick and healthy under aspen trees, it’s the grass the Forest Service and livestock operators are after when they remove the pine and spruce along with old decident aspens that are no longer putting out new young aspens.

In time there will be millions more pounds of grass on the Monroe, like there was 75 to 100 years ago, prior to the spruce/pine encroachment . It’s going to happen on all of Utah plateau top mountains eventually.

If you are more concerned about mule deer than elk, like I was for 50 years, I’m not necessarily excited to see more grass and not more effort to regrow browse species.

I’m just telling folks what I’ve seen in years past and what I’m seeing now.

 

[elkhunter81]

Hope the little white marble drops on your number next year elkhunter81.

I will only share the things I know first hand that have changed on the Monroe since those large numbers of bulls where counted……. and their cow elk were on the Monroe. Which one of those changes or which combination of changes has influenced the numbers, anyone’s guess. I suppose.

Let me add a footnote here, I spoke with a gentleman from Richfield after I posted this report this morning. About 15 years ago he was the Chairman of the Wildlife Board here in Utah, so he’s extremely well connected to a lot of local hunters that share current information with him because they believe he is credible and he knows a lot about our area wildlife. He told me he’s had more than one person tell him they are having difficulty finding elk on the south end of the unit this year as well. That area would be above Otter Creek and around to Marysville).

So…… what’s changed.

The elk began showing up on the Monroe in the late 1970, early 1980’s. By the late 80s and early 90 the numbers of elk were increasing fairly well. After the F&G began its Spike Only program they managed the Monroe for a harvest average of 7-8 years on their Limited Entry Bull hunts. (This was done primarily by limiting the number of tags sold, AND by not issuing any spike tags.

The population continued to increase and fawn vs cow ratios increased, the numbers grew.

Antlerless elk hunts started being sold.

A mountain ranch was subdivided and 40/50 cabins have been built on the north end of the unit and more have been built on the top and south central part of the unit.

I can’t remember which came first but some time in the 2000s the F&G increased the number of Limited Bull Elk tags, to bring the average harvest down to 5-6 years.

A wild fire burnt a large acreage off the north west face of the unit. Natural Aspen reforestation has been clearly visible.

F&G began to sell spike elk tags for the Monroe, for all weapons.

Any weapon hunts for spike elk were again removed for a few years (3 or 4).

F&G began selling Any Weapon spike elk tags again.

In or about 2015 the U.S. Forest Service, started a spruce/beatle kill pine control burning project that will eventually reforest some 89,000 acres, in the last 6-7 years many thousand acres have been burned and some plots now have 8 foot tall aspens growing prolifically. Some plots are high fences to keep elk and livestock out until the aspen can become established, some plots are not fenced.

Burn plots have been spread out across the unit to keep elk from congregating on any one aspen regrowth area, to prevent over grazing the tender young aspen trees.

Prior to this project starting the F&G, began issuing extra tags to reduced the elk population on the unit. At one time there where approximately 1,500 head, I’ve heard there are under 900 head now, but I haven’t attempted to verify either of those numbers.

Road access has always been rougher than adjacent units and they still are.

We’ve had extreme drought years and extreme wet years. More dry than wet years.

Public pressure has increased due to 4 wheeler/side by side traffic….. way way more pressure from recreational users. Livestock operators and their AUM have stayed pretty much the same with a few days per year lost on a few of the bad drought years.

There are likely a few other changes that I’ve over looked but those are a fairly close list.

Plenty of reasons for changes in the elk population and clearly, it’s showed.

I don’t even want to talk about the mule deer, I’m sure you understand way.

Thanks for the information. I know this sounds werid but it was refreshing to hear that it's something other than hunters.

 

[6chukar]

If this is true and the population is down I couldn’t imagine what it would look like back in the day. I was called 2 weeks before the season last year and the only successful nonresident for the muzzy hunt had turned his tag in and I was the alternate. I’ve never seen bulls like I did there passing on several 330 type bulls every day. I bet we saw 20-30 bulls a day on average. It was definitely one of the best units I’ve ever been in for elk and we found bulls north middle and south.

 

[cantkillathing]

If this is true and the population is down I couldn’t imagine what it would look like back in the day. I was called 2 weeks before the season last year and the only successful nonresident for the muzzy hunt had turned his tag in and I was the alternate. I’ve never seen bulls like I did there passing on several 330 type bulls every day. I bet we saw 20-30 bulls a day on average. It was definitely one of the best units I’ve ever been in for elk and we found bulls north middle and south.

Well lets see the results of this hunt.

 

[heartshot]

I believe there also was a big coyote removal project on half the mountain some years back.

 

[2lumpy]

I believe there also was a big coyote removal project on half the mountain some years back.

Actual, they did the removal for a number of years on the north end, followed by the same number of years on the south end……. during the fawn survival study. It was focused on mule deer. They killed more on the north end, claimed they couldn’t coax the coyotes out of the trees to kill them from the air, on the south end.

 

[6chukar]

Well lets see the results of this hunt.

That mountain is awesome! I’d love to go back there soon.

 

[elkhunter81]

Great bull

 

[FairweatherHTR]

That is a great looking bull. I have a late season tag for the Monroe this year and can't sleep at night.

 

[elkhunter81]

That is a great looking bull. I have a late season tag for the Monroe this year and can't sleep at night.

Lucky, it shod be a good year to have a tag there

 

[PleaseDear]

At least you are still getting out and about D C, 25 year tradition.



Thanks for sharing,



Robb

 

[hawkbill]

I have not hunted there but been reading about the great success throughout the years. Reading Lumpys post makes me feel lucky that I’ve been able to hunt and see the the western states. Will Utah see the days of giant Bulls again or is opportunity and to many tags,drought, human encroachment taking over.

 

[2lumpy]

I have not hunted there but been reading about the great success throughout the years. Reading Lumpys post makes me feel lucky that I’ve been able to hunt and see the the western states. Will Utah see the days of giant Bulls again or is opportunity and to many tags,drought, human encroachment taking over.

My personal opinion is, the habitat and the natural environment has improved since elk were returned to Utah in the early 1900. So the potential for large herds and giant bulls remains intact. The social economic environment at the present time will not allow it however. At sometime in the future, if the social economic environment turns back to wanting large populations of elk and large antlered bull elk, then yes, you will see it happen again.

By social economic environment, in this case, I’m referring to hunter’s demand for more opportunity, livestock demand for less elk, public demand for more apex predators ie: cougars, bears and gray wolves, pressure from government for more private land and less public land, etc. etc.

Elk have proven to be a much more resilient big game animal than our mule deer and can with stand greater natural environmental pressures as well as social economic pressure, or so it seems. The gray wolf, which Utah hasn’t faced yet, may be its greatest natural environment threat. Of course livestock issues are huge on the social economic side are huge as well.

To your specific question……… it’s possible but I can’t see it happening under any current conditions.

I know it’s a disheartening and an unpopular concept but giant bull hunting will increase on private lands and likely continue to decline on public land as we move forward from here. Not what I want, in any shape or form but, just as I see it from my view of the situation.