Anatha' GOP'er bites the. . . .

T

TFinalshot

Guest
Oh man, what's up with the GOP another ani-gay politician and now he quits because he himself is gay - Curtis, from Washington State I just saw on the news resigned due to his gayness. . .

http://www.katu.com/news/10924216.html

Curtis

"Today I submitted my letter of resignation to Governor Gregoire effective immediately. While I believe we've done some good and helped a lot of people during the time I served in the Legislature, events that have recently come to light have hurt a lot of people. I sincerely apologize for any pain my actions may have caused. This has been damaging to my family, and I don't want to subject them to any additional pain that might result from carrying out this matter under the scrutiny that comes with holding public office."

Soon after, Washington state House Republican Leader Richard DeBolt issued this statement:

"I am very disappointed by the news reports of the conduct by Rep. Curtis last week in Spokane. After discussing this matter with House Republican leaders, he has submitted his resignation, which we feel is best for everyone involved. The troubling details continue to emerge, however, it has become clear that he can no longer effectively represent the constituents who elected him. We pray that Richard and his family have the strength and support they need to meet the personal challenges they face."

Additional details emerged Wednesday about the alleged extortion attempt involving Curtis, a Republican who is married.

A recently released Spokane police report says the incident began at an erotic boutique there.

Police say the suspect, Cody Castagna, told them he saw Curtis "exiting the bathroom wearing long red women's stockings and a black sequined lingerie top."

Sounds kinda like the guy the republicans support from NYC. . . .
 
its amazing freckin politicions. Their all sick. Dems and the Gop. All they want is to screw over good Americans to help their own bank acc.
 
I'll sure be glad when the Dems finally take over for good. I'm tired of all this immorality!:)

Eel
 
>I'll sure be glad when the
>Dems finally take over for
>good. I'm tired of all
>this immorality!:)
>
>Eel


Amen again.


Ransom
 
>its amazing freckin politicions. Their all
>sick. Dems and the Gop.
>All they want is to
>screw over good Americans to
>help their own bank acc.
>


That post is the most truthful I have seen. You got my vote if you want to run for president.
 
Yet another example of the Republican policing there own and not making excuses for the sick bastage. If he were a Dem the Dems would have railied around the sick bastage and began there spin and lies.



?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-07 AT 06:32AM (MST)[p]yea but he's not a dem. . . but what would even be better is if gays in political office, particularly republican offices, could be gay and NOT push for ani-gay policies. If a person is gay, it should not disqualify him or her from holding elected office. If he were open about it, he would not now have to resign. He's NOT quiting because he's gay, he's quiting because he's a liar and got caught. . . if dishonesty is the bar for getting fired, than the entire bunch of them should likely be kicked out of office!
 
T,

Just curious why you get so much happiness out of a situtation like this? Doesn't seem like you.

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-07 AT 09:44AM (MST)[p]it does not make me happy at all, it makes me frustrated. I hate to see anyone humiliated like this.

He's a liar of the first order. It also is horrible that the GOP, the family values club who points out that the dems lack a morel fiber, seem to have a lot of problems with liars, cheats, gays who say they are not gay but to make matters worse, they push polices that are counter to their own spirit while telling us how to act.

Very strange. . .

I wish it would humble some people. . . .
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-07 AT 11:42AM (MST)[p]I think whenever you have human being involved in anything your will have problems with liars and cheats regardless of which party they hail from.

As for being gay, isn't he sent to represent his district? If his district didn't support giving gays the same class distintion as being black when it comes to civil rights should he have voted the way his constituents want rather then for what is best for himself?

Who has told you how to live your life? Have you had to change the way you choose to live as a result of one thing the GOP has passed?

Nemont
 
Sounds to me he was a liar from the begining of his term. He tried to vote how he felt his constituents would want him to. In doing so he was misrepresenting his own personal morals. The Bible says that your sin will find you out and this just proves the Bible as far as I am concerned.

As far as trying to imply that the GOP is hypocritical because one of it's members was living a double life, that is a stretch. The Houses of Congress are full of sinful people on both sides of the aisle. One side chooses to embrace the homosexual lifestyle, while the other side does not. The actions of individuals within the respective parties should not condemn or condone the parties themselves, any more than slob hunters who fling arrows and shoot at outrageous distances should condemn all hunters.

But nice try! :)
Its fair chase, or its foul!
 
Just who gets to rule if it's a sinful lifestyle or not ? the issue here is the hypocricy, not the fact he's gay.

Doesn't the fact republicans being the superior beings they are turn up gay all the time give you the impression maybe being gay isn't a choice? did he just flip on the TV and see Brad Pitt and say I want me some of that, I think I'll change my lifestyle? until you accept they are who they are republican fanny bandits will keep popping up like they have been, he's not the first and he won't be the last.

It would be more fair to say one side chooses to condemn the fact someone is gay, the other does not.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-07 AT 12:36PM (MST)[p]
What bill passed by the GOP has outlawed being gay? What law passed by the GOP has impacted gays? Opinions and party platforms regarding homosexuality is allowed under our constitution.

I don't have to approve of the way gays want everyone to agree with their lifestyle choices. As long as I don't persecute gays or stop them from enjoying the same rights as guaranteed by the Constitution.

So show me how any harm has come to gays. There are gays in every Movie and TV show. I haven't seen protesters in front of every theatre.

Using gays as an issue is as much of a red herring as deficit spending is.

Again some laws passed or court decisions by the GOP reducing gay rights, please provide some proof.

Nemont
 
come on nemont, even you cant deny the FACTS that the GOP is anti gay and it tries, at EVERY chance it has to point out and even segragate gays. . . What then do you call a proposed amendment to the constitudion with support of the GOP, banning gays from being married?

Are you now going to say these are two seperate issues?

If one is gay, so be it, but today, being gay is, if youre a repbublican, BAD - to deny that also is naive.

If one man wants to be gay but be against gays, so be it, that's a personal choice, but why are they ALL GOP'ers that fall into that category? What democrat has ever been ANTI gay and later found out to BE gay?

Nemont, i certainly can not cite for you all the laws that have been debated wherein gay was at issue or even a part of the debate, not can you name for me all the one's that have not. That said, it is well known fact that the GOP is anti gay. . .

Anyone care to dessagree?
 
T,

You said that the GOP is passing laws against gays. I looked through alot, although not all, of the bills passed and signed into law and cannot find one.

By labeling the GOP anit gay the other side gets to label the the Dems anti family. The dems support gay marriage (some are of the opinion that marriage is between a man and a woman), abortion on demand at any age W/O even parental notification. I could go on and on.

The truth is that since GWB has been in office gays have increased not only their visibilty but also their power. Not one law has been passed to reduce their rights, eliminate them from public view or infringe on their constitutional freedoms.

I guess I haven't read where proposing an amendment, which did not happen is the same as segregation. So you are saying if we don't all believe in the gay lifestyle we are bad Americans and should just shut up and have not opinion? Sounds an alot like the behavior that the GWB haters accuse neocons of.

As long as I defend a gay persons right to his or her constitutional rights I don't have to support their lifestyle. I can say I believe being gay is a choice and not be a bigot. Differing opinions and beliefs are still allowed in this country even if they disagree with yours.

I have never said the GOP isn't anti gay however I also don't believe that there is anything wrong with opposing the gay lifestyle. It is anybodies right to have a differing view and opinion and even take those views and opinions to the political arena.

Are you really afraid gays won't get their rights in this country? Have you seen the court system? They seem to be pretty heavily in favor of the Constititutional rights of all Americans.

If the GOP was really as anti gay as you say why didn't they pass an all anti gay agenda when they controlled both chambers and the White House?

Nemont
 
Dude, in answer to post 13,

The standard of what is sinful rests solely with God.

Its fair chase, or its foul!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-07 AT 02:28PM (MST)[p]nemont, i dont know what to say to you i'm surprised that you would take that position. I dont "support" gays, but I do disslike people trying to act as though gays should have less of a right to all of the aspects of being a us citizen that I have. I dont think they should get a special place on the hill, but I also dont think gays should be singled out and discriminated against because of their sexual orentation. . . .

also you said:

"You [tfinalshot] said that the GOP is passing laws against gays."

Youre a straight shooter nemont and I have the utmost respect for you, but please cite where I made that statement. . .
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-07 AT 02:45PM (MST)[p]
"come on nemont, even you cant deny the FACTS that the GOP is anti gay and it tries, at EVERY chance it has to point out and even segragate gays. . . What then do you call a proposed amendment to the constitudion with support of the GOP, banning gays from being married?"

I thought You implied that this Constitutional Amendment passed, it did not. If not so be it.

What part of my previous post do you think is not serious?

I am not anti gay, but I do think it is a slippery slope when you get into opinions and political rhetoric and start using those as facts.

I just think that if the GOP was as anti gay as the other side likes to protray they would have made sure that when they were in the majority they would have outlawed as much as possible. The use of the gay issue is a political red herring used to paint one side as completely intolerant and the other as accepting.

It would be like saying the dems are no more accepting of anyone who has a deep abiding faith in God as the reps are of some who is gay. Well, I happen to know alot of Democrats who are Christians.

Yet many would consider the Democrats Anti Christian for their stance of many social issue. Are Christian Democrats who vote against their own beliefs hyprocrites then?
Nemont
 
By not supporting special rights bills for gays, republicans are labeled "anti gay". Gays have all the rights you and I have. "gay marriage" is a "special" right. Not only can gays not marry the same sex, niether can heterosexuals. The "right" to marry doesn't give anyone the "right" to marry someone you love or your perfect match or anything of the sort. It gives each and every one of us the right to marry someone of the opposite sex....that's all. Gay marriage isn't even a phrase that makes sense.

JB
 
JB hit it right on the head, 'gay-marriage' makes no sense, and it would be a "special" right. A gay/staight man today has the EXACT same right, they can BOTH marry a person of the opposite sex. To 'allow' and recognize "gay marriage" would be endorsing that lifestyle, the government has no business endorsing a certain lifestyle. To accuse conservatives of being 'anti-gay' is akin to accusing someone of being a racist, very serious allegations, and should not be tossed about so easily.

PRO
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-07 AT 03:53PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-07 AT 03:39 PM (MST)

The GOP is anti gay. . ., find one person that's a member of the GOP (you cant use GOP and conservative interchangebly, since they really now could be very different - GW is a spitting example) that supports two men or two women married, and raising kids and i'll eat my words. . . I'm not sure about conservatives as d13r points out. . .

Tell me, if a woman and a woman fall in love and spend 20 years as partners, raise three kids and one of the women parents dies, does the partner get any of her benefits, like SS or how about the retirement? You call that fair?

But more that that why do the new republicans even want to limit gays from being married? What the issue for YOU d13, what if two men marry, is that going to hurt your relationship?

What about a man and a woman getting married that dont love each other and dont want to have kids, dont have sex, and does not even live together, heck, they never get a divorse - what should happen to them?

It seems to me that this issue really is all about what people do inside there home, and therefore, in order to be a republican, you MUST stay out of people's homes, that's the golden principal of being republican and to tread on that is to NOT support republican principals. . .
 
Idabuck, Muslims live by Islamic law, we don't live by Christian law.

So now that we've determined nobody has the authority to deem gays sinful or illegal what do we do about it?

My solution is to accept them for who they are because just like skin color they didn't have a choice in the matter. I do not however believe they deserve any special rights, if they were treated as decent human beings they probably wouldn't even need to ask for them .

My good friend's son is queer as a 3 dollar bill. he's been different since he was little, he made no " lifestyle" chioce in the matter. his situation has been hell on himself and his christian family and I've gone out of my way to support and accept him, seeing as I'm a heathen it's easy for me to do. he's moved away now but this kid is a true gay cowboy, funny I'll admit but the real men around here treat him as anyone else. how many of you who are so intolerant of gays even know one? or are you secure enough in you manhood to allow yourself to? this is obviously no " lifestyle choice" to anyone who knows one of these unfortunate people.
 
Dude,
You may have determined that nobody has the authority to deem gays sinful, but I'm not going there. You would have to dismiss a lot of scripture to come to that conclusion. I don't care what law you choose to live under there is only one law that matters when we stand before God. If you choose to ignore God's law in favor of man's, more power to ya. But you have been warned. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't hate anyone. I have gay friends that I care very deeply about. There is only one rule book, and we all have to live by the same set of rules. That doesn't make me homophobic, or insecure in my manhood.

Its fair chase, or its foul!
 
I don't know what the scripture is but I've already dismissed it.

What about those gay freinds you care about, are they damned because of the way they were born? does that bother you? it would bother me a lot.

The law of the land is the only law we have to live by, you can take your choice of hundreds of religious books or none at all. just drive 100 mph down mainstreet tonight and see if I'm right.
 
You have made it abundantly clear that you have dismissed Scripture, that is your choice.

My homosexual friends are not damned because of the way they were born. They like you and me are damned because of their sinful nature. The only way we can be un-damned is through the purifying of Jesus Christ. It's in the book. You should at least read it before you dismiss it. Start with the Gospel of John. Its in the New Testament. If you have any questions, I would be glad to help you.

Its fair chase, or its foul!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-07 AT 07:56PM (MST)[p] Maybe damned doesn't mean what I think it does, since they're gay they're going to hell right? if so do you think that's a little harsh? if they can be forgiven then what's the big deal? can you be a mass murderer and then be forgiven before you die? if so why go to church at all and why not live like a cull your whole life? just repent at the end and you're golden.

To me you're either a good person or you're not, being gay doesn't make you bad and going to church doesn't make you good.

Another thought, if god creates all things why did he create gays? he's either all powerful or he's not, what gives? I have no doubt it's a waste of time pointing out the flaws in your religion to make you more tollerant of others but you can't answer these questions with plain talk I bet. a common heathen like me really hates no one and good church goers are taught who to hate the right people for their own benefit. the whole thing seems a little strange to me, your religion seems rather uncompassionate.

I'm not trying to rag on your beliefs but since you're the one pushing intolerance the burden falls on you to justify it.
 
Dude, I argue it is YOU and your ilk that is pushing intolerance. It is okay for you to think being gay is 'normal', but it is not okay for me to disagree, according to YOU. I am NOT anti-gay, but YOU ARE anti-religion, so who is the bigot and who is the one cramming their beliefs down whose throat? EVERY man in America has the same exact right to marry, what you and others are asking/demanding for is 'special' priviledges, not equal anything.

PRO
 
T,

I am curious why it matters if the GOP is viewed as being anti gay? If the majority in this country are pro-gay won't the GOP suffer for their position?

I think you have stated that Hillary is already all but elected and then they will have control of both chambers and the White House. Then that tax bill you posted will be a faded memory of the good old days. Charles Rangel already has the tax increase plan lined up.

So I will ask you for proof that it is the GOP who is anti gay. Why aren't the congressional dems pushing for all the reforms that you mentioned in your post about fairness? They are in control of the legislative agenda. If the gay issue is so important and a political problem for the Republicans why are the Democrats hammering them with it?

I don't get why you care if the GOP is anti gay? You aren't a Republican.

Nemont
 
You read into it that I'm anti-religion, I'm not anti-religion I'm saying religion isn't a law and shouldn't be used to set policy. the other thing I said about religion is as far as I'm concerned they're all equal, if one were superior the others would go away. religion is not for me , I have that right also. while I disagree with the bible some it's not my intention to put it down, to question is not to ridicule in my mind.

The reason religion keeps coming up is because it keeps being used to justify a case. look back at this thread and see for yourself, it wasn't me who played the bible card. if you're going to use religion as justification then expect debate, it's not used in law why should it be accepeted on MM? you have the right to disapprove of gays, you also have the right to disapprove of blacks but it's frowned on not cheered. when the day comes that people understand gays can't help who they are gay bashing will probably be looked at just as racism, until then you're right, disapprove away.
 
Short of wearing t shirts saying " death to gays " I'm not sure what else they could do to make their position clear.

I know you're not stupid, what are you getting at?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-07 AT 10:17AM (MST)[p]Dude,

If it is just the GOP that is anti gay why are the Democrats not exploiting this apparent weakness? Last I checked the Democrats control the agenda in both the House and Senate, have they introduced legislation to correct what T has pointed out he believes to be unfair?

If the Gay issue is a winner for the Dems why aren't they hammering the Reps with it? Please explain also why if the GOP hates gays so much that it didn't move to pass laws making being gay a crime or such?

The issue is not that gays have less rights it is that they want special rights.

So please explain all of this to me so I can understand what exactly the problem is with the GOP being anti gay and why the dems are so much better even though they have not done anything different since they have been in power. I guess I am dumb. If the GOP hold anti gay views and the majority of Americans do not doesn't that mean that they will lose more in the upcoming elections. So why do you even care what the GOP stands for as you are not a Republican? Why not support the candidates that echo your beliefs and not support those who do not?

For example I don't give money to the Dems because I don't believe in their party platform. I haven't given money to the Reps because they haven't earned my vote yet.

Nemont
 
I have NEVER used religion has a reason for opposing gay-marriage, I believe that is an unwise political reason to oppose it. I oppose gay-marriage for many reasons based on 'rights' and 'purposes' for allowing gay-marriage. So, lets look at a few of the reasons I object to gay-marriage.

1)EVERY gay person has the SAME rights on marriage I currently have, they are asking for additional/extra 'rights'. I see nowhere in the Constitution that addresses gay-marriage.

2)A straight couple CAN contribute MORE to society than a gay couple. A man and a woman can bring children into the world w/o outside 'help'. A gay couple CAN'T.

3)MOST gay people do NOT want to be 'married'. The ones pushing this AGENDA are people trying to destroy the family structure that has been in place for thousands of years. The left is constantly assaulting the 'traditional' family. From mothers staying home to take care of children, to abortions, to saying a father is not needed in a home altogether.

You want to reduce crime, unwanted pregnancies, poverty, drug abuse; put the 'traditional' family back as the DESIRED 'lifestyle'. Having TWO parents, one man and one woman, is the best way to do the above. That is a FACT. Having a father in the home is crucial. Study after study after study shows that having a father in the home increases ones odds of being a productive member of society as an adult. You want to lower poverty and homelessness, push the traditional family as the ideal family structure. Gay couples canNOT physically/emotionally/mentally emulate a man and a woman in raising a child. Each gender DOES have vital roles, and they are different for good reasons. A man, no matter how 'gay' can NOT provide the same emotional assests a woman can. A woman, no matter how 'gay' can NOT provide the same emotional assests a man can. These are FACTS that a "Darwin" supporter should readily recognize and agree with. You see the differences in the two sexes in all/most animals. Each sex has a ROLE in the evolution and existence of the species, yet the modern SP wants to diminish and/or eliminate the importance of the male HUMAN. That IS the primary motive behind gay-marriage.

Accusing those of us who oppose gay-marriage as anti-gay, or gay-haters, shows how weak YOUR stance is. When you have to resort to such tactics instead of discussing the real issues, you have showed your hand, and you have no face cards, no straight, no flush, no three of a kind.

PRO
 
What are you talking about? most states don't allow gay marriage so how do they have the same rights as us? I'm a little on the fence on that issue myself but they DON'T have the same rights.

Who says we need more people? if gays don't have kids that's just fine.

I agree with you that a family structure with a father and stay at home mother are best for kids, but what a streeeeeeeetch to blame the failure of the American family on gays.

I've only met a few gays and they're the least threatening people I can think of, I'm sure there are some radicals but they're a minority. all most of them ask for is to be left alone and not to be discriminated against, if they want special rights I'm against that . they aren't scary and they aren't the end of life as we know it, try to come up with a valid reason they're anymore of a threat than anyone else and I'll accept it, the crap you have so far is ludicris.
 
> What are you talking about?
>most states don't allow gay
>marriage so how do they
>have the same rights as
>us? I'm a little on
>the fence on that issue
>myself but they DON'T have
>the same rights.
>
> Who says we need more
>people? if gays don't have
>kids that's just fine.
>
> I agree with you that
>a family structure with a
>father and stay at home
>mother are best for kids,
>but what a streeeeeeeetch to
>blame the failure of the
>American family on gays.
>
> I've only met a few
>gays and they're the least
>threatening people I can think
>of, I'm sure there are
>some radicals but they're a
>minority. all most of them
>ask for is to be
>left alone and not to
>be discriminated against, if they
>want special rights I'm against
>that . they aren't scary
>and they aren't the end
>of life as we know
>it, try to come up
>with a valid reason they're
>anymore of a threat than
>anyone else and I'll accept
>it, the crap you have
>so far is ludicris.

Dude

I know your smarter than this. They do have the same rights as us. We get to marry ONE PERSON OF THE OPPOSITE SEX. They have that right also, they just choose something different that's not allowed.

Ransom
 
Who's to say it's not allowed? isn't that a form of sex discrimination?

I'm not saying it isn't a little creepy but why should I have a say in who can enter a binding relationship with who? maybe some would say my wife shouldn't have been allowed to mary a half breed, come to think of it that wouldn't be all bad.
 
Marriage has been between a man and women since the beginning of this country.

dude wrote: "I agree with you that a family structure with a father and stay at home mother are best for kids, but what a streeeeeeeetch to blame the failure of the American family on gays."

I made no such assertion! NEVER. My point is that having a father AND amother in the same home gives a child the BEST chance to be successful and productive in life. Being gay has little to do with that, it is when gays try and raise kids and say it is no different than a man and woman raising a child. If gay marriages become 'normal', fewer familes will have a father and mother in the home, this is NOT good for society. Asking the government 'endorse' gay-marriage would mean having the government say that a gay family is as 'valuable' to society as a straight family, and that simlpy is NOT the case.

Don't bring race into this, that has NOTHING to do with this subject. And, the world/America is NOWHERE near being 'over-populated', just a lame excuse to justify the killing of unborn HUMANS.

PRO
 
The world IS overpopulated, very much so. that's my opinion, but see I'll say it's an opinion you'll counter with your opinion labeled as a fact, just like the reasons gays are a threat.

Just how many gay coulples will raise kids? can you say for sure they'll all be Charlie Mansons? I doubt the numbers of kids raised by gays tearing the country apart will be the downfall of anything.

Since when has marriage stopped or permitted anything anyway? you don't think everyone waits until the honeymoon do you? you know you can have kids out of wedlock? all they want is the legal rights that go with a union, fair enough it doesn't hurt anyone to give them that. with or without gay marriage they're not going away so this argument is mute.


This is hopeless, I have to go load a hay truck. later
 
> Who's to say it's not
>allowed? isn't that a form
>of sex discrimination?
>
> I'm not saying it isn't
>a little creepy but why
>should I have a say
>in who can enter a
>binding relationship with who? maybe
>some would say my wife
>shouldn't have been allowed to
>mary a half breed, come
>to think of it that
>wouldn't be all bad.

Dude

Your all over the map today. We need some type of score cards to keep up.


Ransom
 
Dude, there is no way you are really that out there. You are intentionally missing my point, what a shock! I never said the 'ills' of society is in anyway the gays fault, I said it is the fault of those pushing the erosion of the family, gay or straight is irrelevant.

I am saying the AGENDA of those pushing this crap, notice I am NOT saying ANYTHING about gays because they are NOT the ones pushing it, is to destroy the traditional family. This is done by marginalizing the father/mother roles. Funny how libs are saying marriage is 'outdated' yet they want gays to get 'special/extra' rights and be allowed to marry each other. WTF? The easist/best way to implement socialism is to tear the family structure down, making more people dependant on the goverment. The 'women's lib' movement, the 'gay-rights' movement, Affirmitive Action, universal healthcare, anti-private school movements, are ALL aimed at giving the government more control over our day to day lives, which is SOCIALISM. They are smart enough to know this can't be done overnight and in one swift move. Polls have been taken, and every one I have seen shows MOST gay people do NOT want/desire/support gay marriage. It is a small minority of gays and financial backing from socialist groups like MoveOn.org and other leftist groups and the 'mainstream media' which is just a mouthpiece for these idiots.

PRO
 
Pro

Good points. Yep Dude is missing it on purpose. He knows it frustrates us when he does that.
A person only has to go back and check the data on % of people in wedlock, babies born in wedlock and crime from now back say 50 years. When a greater percentage of people were married there was far less babies born out of wedlock and far less crime. This would show it is everybody's best interest to have strong and traditional marriages.

Ransom
 
Just got off the phone with Bill Clinton. He said this is just a big misunderstanding because no sex was involved.


Ransom
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-07 AT 03:44PM (MST)[p] When more peeople were married less children were born out of wedlock? . the higher thermometer goes the hotter it gets too.

I see what you're saying about the anti family conspiracy, I just don't buy it. half the people you accuse of this are too stupid to be that deviant, what's in for anybody to destroy family values anyway? what would be the motive? I don't buy the socialism theory, there's more money to be made as it is and our system doesn't lend itself to socialism. times change and people change, try as hard as you want it will never be 1880 again.
 
You are saying George Soros and his ilk are "stupid"? Hmmmm, maybe there is hope for you after all.

You say you "don't buy the socialism theory, there's more money to be made", let me ask you a quick question, what is the purpose of money? Is it not to acquire things/power/control? If it is, wouldn't being in charge of a socialistic country be BETTER than wealthy? Do you think Castro and his buddy Chavez need a pile of money? They have complete control over 'their' countries and the lives of 'their' people. If you deny that America is a lot closer to socialism today than 40 years ago, you need a civics lesson worse than I previously thought. There are way more 'entittlement' programs and control ceded to the government than back BEFORE the hippie movement. The peaceniks were/are in two groups IMO, one is the ones desiring to gain control and turn America into Utopia, and the followers who are duped into believing appeasment and PC views are the way to get there while giving up their freedoms and indivualism.

PRO
 
I think you're pretty paranoid but lets assume for a second you're onto something. what do you say we do about it? how do we remove the rights from those we feel are wrong and grant power to those we think are right without giving up our rights in the process? it's not going to happen at the ballot box so what covert plan will take control without destroying that which you wish to save? majority rules and you're outnumbered, that's a dilly of a pickle.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-07 AT 10:45PM (MST)[p]The majority of Americans do NOT support gay-marriage.

You asked : "how do we remove the rights from those we feel are wrong and grant power to those we think are right without giving up our rights in the process?"

What 'rights' are you talking about removing? Now who is being parinoid. I have NEVER talked about taking anyones rights away, neither has the Republican party nor ANY of the canidates for President in the Republican party.


PRO
 
The republicans kick him out of office.

How did the democrats act when Clinton was found to be immoral? If this happened to a democrat they would attack anyone that said anything as "homophobic" and the idiot would get to finish his term.

"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-07 AT 10:55PM (MST)[p] Congress voted to condemn Moveon's ad, what more would you have them do? unlike Freddy they aren't breaking any laws of hurting anyone so what's the recourse? should the republicans denounce Rush Limbagh for his extreme political stand? same thing.

I said you can't stop your dooms day socialist takeover at the ballot box so you never answered how you were going to get around that. or do you think the republicans will rise again before it's too late? it's your story tell me how it ends.

I'm outnumbered? that's your best one yet. don't leave MM or Rush.com, you won't like what you find out there.
 
I don't listen to Rush, so no worries there. If republicans woould run on conservative values and princibles they would win most elections nationwide.

When I said you are outnumbered on the gay-marriage issue. How many states allow gay-marriage at the ballot box? ONE!! The only way the socialists can get this implemented is to bypass the will of the MAJORITY and use activist judges to FORCE this on us.

Hillbill, prell girl, and barak winfrey get their talking points from MoveOn.org, NONE of the Republicans get their talking points from "uncle Freddy", NONE! You ask what more could thelibs do, how about stop putting the so-called 'far-left loons' in the in the suites at the National Conventions for starters. Stop being funded by these groups for another.

PRO
 
Ok, if you ment I was outnumbered on the gay marriage issue you're right there sort of. I'm one of the 56% who thinks some kind of civil union should be offered to them. only 37% think gay marriage should be legal, a civil union is a fair compromise in my opinion.

I can't say I'm an expert on Moveon.org but what have they done so terrible that the dems should denounce them? the Petreaus ad was over the top and that was condemned, but they had every right to run it.

Unless all the conservative groups are going to be cast out also this is a non issue. moveon is a partisan group, they aren't there to please you or support republicans.

As we saw last November hardline conservatives are unelectable so there goes your chances of taking control back. times have changed and people always change, moderate conservatives will remain electable and they're my preference so I'm glad. Giuliani is the only republican who stands a chance in the general election, be thankful a hardliner isn't going to win the primary or Hillary wouldn't even need show up to win . even the republicans have had enough, Rudy proves that.
 
What "hardline conservatives" lost last year? The problem with most "modern" republicans is they are NOT conservative. If they were Reagan/Ginrich type republicnas and ran on core conservative positions they would win. They for whatever reason have turned into democrats, and democrats have become socialists.

PRO
 
Well to win they better get more socialist then. if Ginrich could win why did he back out of even trying for the nomination? it isn't like he didn't want it, he may be a hardliner but he's not that stupid.
 
Newt backed out because of McCain/Fiengold. He started a think-tank where they come up conservative policy options and what not. He stated he believes he can do more good for America with that group, and under the above mentioned campaign laws, he would have to disassociate with his own think-tank. It had NOTHING to do with his odds of winning. I say the only way a Republican will win next fall against Hilliary Soros is by running as a conservative, not a moderate!

PRO
 
The fact that most republicans said they wouldn't vote for Newt probably had something to do with his odds of winning.

The latest poll shows 48% of Americans want a dem president and 33% would prefer a republican in '08. the undecideds are your only chance, what do you bet the majority of them would be turned off by a hardline conservative? give the people what they want or get out of the way old man.
 
Whats the likely voter poll show? Polls are fickle to say the least. As of now 52% support some type of military action against Iran. How long would that hold up?


Ransom
 
I am NOT concerned by polls at this point. The election is a year away, and if the Republican that comes out of the pack points out all the MANY flaws Hillbill has the polls will change.

Once it is pointed out in debates how liberal Hillbill is, how weak she is on defense, her illegal immigrant stance(whatever it is at the moment), how much all her 'entitlement' programs will cost the average taxpayer, her lack of direction on dealing with Iran, and NUMEROUS other issues, she will have a hard time getting the votes. If Rudy gets the nod for the Republicans, I predict he will beat her by 6 points or MORE! He WILL hammer her on these issues. The New York illegal immigration debacle that she supports WILL bite her in the behind, watch and see. 78% of New Yorkers disagree with her on just this one issue. Her 'likeablity' is horrible. As she herself said, "We can't afford all the programs she wants to instill", all on the tax payers back.

PRO
 
PRO

You must not have understood the point I was trying to make. I don't care about the polls either. They change like the wind does.
Dude forgets at least one basic fact, if the percentage of Americans are say 48% Dem. and 38% are Rep. and all the voters actually showed up and voted there would never be a Republican elected to the highest office in the land. Thank the Lord that many of the Dems are lazy!


Ransom
 
A lot of dems are lazy, but Bush has fired them up as we saw last fall. some of them voted while they were in town to cash their welfare checks, before they wouldn't have spent the energy but Bush knows how to motivate folks.

Rudy will be the republican contender short of big surprise between now and next spring. Rudy is less popular in NY than Hillary is. what makes you think he has less to hide than Hillary? wouldn't you say after 20 years most people already know more than the want to about her? and she's still #1 in the polls.

Rudy has a history of cross dressing, living with gays, multiple marriages one of which was to his cousin, shady business dealings, he's hated by the NYPD and the NY fire dept and I could go on. but this is not his biggest problem, I could overlook most of this and maybe vote for him. it's the split in the hardliners like you who'll doom him even if the moderates accept him. he's to liberal for the far right on abortion and gays and such so they're going for a 3rd party candidate they say. it'll be Ross Perot all over again and another Clinton will reap the fruit. after Hillary is in the whitehouse for a while moderation may seem like a good idea to you if it gets her out. in '08 a hardline dem can win, a hardline republican can not.
 
Dude


"multiple marriages one of which was to his cousin" Whats up with that? Cousins don't marry in Oregon?


Ransom
 
Dude, your entire last post was horseapples. With the situation in Iraq getting BETTER, whether you will admit it or not, the situation with Iran, illegal immigration, hilliarycare, and all the 'new' social programs she comes up with, she will look like a true Marxist. I'll make a bet with you after the primaries if you feel so confident, what do you say? Talk is cheap.

To beat Hillbill, one does not need to dig for skeletons, she can/will be defeated by her policies, IF the Republican canidate runs on a conservative line!

PRO
 
Don't waste your breath, Pro, dude already welched his $100 bet that Thompson wouldn't get in the race. Talk IS cheap and that's all he's got.

JB
 
>Don't waste your breath, Pro, dude
>already welched his $100 bet
>that Thompson wouldn't get in
>the race. Talk IS cheap
>and that's all he's got.
>
>
>JB

JB

Being part Welsh I would prefer you use the term Oreganed in lieu of Welshed. Thanks


Ransom
 
>Isn't Welsh just a pudgy Shetland
>pony? Just wondering.:7
>
>PRO

PRO

You know a Welsh is taller and sleeker that a Shetland, give me a break. LOL

On another note how long will Dude be in love with Hillary? I hope they break up soon.


Ransom
 
>>Isn't Welsh just a pudgy Shetland
>>pony? Just wondering.:7
>>
>>PRO
>
>PRO
>
>You know a Welsh is taller
>and sleeker that a Shetland,
>give me a break. LOL
>
>
>On another note how long will
>Dude be in love with
>Hillary? I hope they break
>up soon.
>
>
>Ransom

I heard they are 'cousins'.:*

PRO
 
If it isn't AQHA, I don't bother with it. Welsh/Shetland/Arab/Paint, they are all future dogfood as far as I am concerned! HA HA

PRO
 
>>>Isn't Welsh just a pudgy Shetland
>>>pony? Just wondering.:7
>>>
>>>PRO
>>
>>PRO
>>
>>You know a Welsh is taller
>>and sleeker that a Shetland,
>>give me a break. LOL
>>
>>
>>On another note how long will
>>Dude be in love with
>>Hillary? I hope they break
>>up soon.
>>
>>
>>Ransom
>
>I heard they are 'cousins'.:*
>
>PRO


PRO

Explains mucho.


Ransom
 
I never bet he wouldn't enter the race, I bet he wouldn't win the primary if he entered. he's flopped even worse than I figured he would so I'm feeling pretty good about it too.

Pro, Iraq is going to help the republicans? man I gotta watch more FOX I guess. Turkey on the brink of attacking Iraq that doesn't look like progress to me, the American Gen in charge of that section of Iraq says he plans to do " absolutly nothing " about it because he doesn't have the troops or orders to . Bush said with the troop surge all of Iraq would be under control of the Iraqi government by November. guess what, it's November and less than half of Iraq is under Iraqi control, and that's the good half. I'll agree it's getting a little better in Baghdad but how many less bodies and bombing a month constitutes success? if you're counting on Iraq to put a republican in the whitehouse get real. you're a good sport, thanks for playing.
 
D13er I don't like being called a welsher, anyone who knows me knows my word is as good as a contract.

I'll let you off as being mistaken on that bet about Thompson entering the race, if you want to insist I'll call you a liar.

I understand this is all stupid internet arguing that means nothing, but even here some things tick me off.
 
Fair enough, since I was a little bit wrong and thought it was a bet the primary I'll let you out of paying me the $500 you're going to lose in the general. that's just the kind of guy I am.

If the election were held today Hillary, Obama and Edwards would all pound him hard the latest polls say. he's flopped flatter than a truck pressed pheasant, even I overestimated him.
 
Cherrypickingdude, I said, "With the situation in Iraq getting BETTER, whether you will admit it or not, the situation with Iran, illegal immigration, hilliarycare, and all the 'new' social programs she comes up with, she will look like a true Marxist."

How out of that do you get the Republicans are going to win next November based on Iraq ONLY? I wonder when you and other defeatists will finally admit the Surge has/is working and MAJOR progress in taking place in Iraq. How close to the top of the cup does the water have to be before you stop looking at it as half-empty?

Hilliary has made a HUGE blunder with her stance on the New York illegal license issue. 78% of New Yorkers, not exactly known as 'moderates' and conservatives, disagree with her. What do you think the percentage is Nationally? She can now kiss New Mexico Texas, and Arizona bye-bye to carry in the general election.

Once people realize how much 'free-health care' will COST, she will lose support there as well. Do you really think MOST Americans want a tax hike, as MAJOR tax hike? Because under Clinton, say adious to more of your paycheck.

PRO
 
> D13er I don't like being
>called a welsher, anyone who
>knows me knows my word
>is as good as a
>contract.
>
> I'll let you off as
>being mistaken on that bet
>about Thompson entering the race,
>if you want to insist
>I'll call you a liar.
>
>
> I understand this is all
>stupid internet arguing that means
>nothing, but even here
>some things tick me off.
>


Will all of you please stop using Welsh or any variation of, as a derogatory word.


Ransom

472d43d73a77bf81.jpg
 
Pro it's not hard to find the flaws in all of your logic if that's what you get off on.

Iran is a situation getting worse under republican leadership today, that's a selling point? even if we wanted to we couldn't do anything because our military is streched beyond it's means with a war in Iraq even the ignorant now know was a mistake, another selling point?

Illegal imigration? yeah Bush has made everyone happy with that one, republicans will ride high there.

Health care, Hillary has a proposal, she didn't get it done before and if people don't want it she won't get it done now. something has to be done, I'm not saying she has the best idea but it's a starting point. What does Rudy have?

Taxes, it doesn't matter who gets elected taxes will go up. it's called paying your bills, Bush has run the debt up 53% and has over a year to go. republican fiscal responsibility and working to prevent taxes from going is a MAJOR selling point now is it?
 
I edited my post but recanted. WOW! I said it and I feel better for at least a day for doing so.

F the Democrats Clinton will never be president no matter how much the press wants you to believe. Half the US is women and they can't stand her. The real threat is Osama Hussein Bama. I can't believe how many women I have talked to that say he is cute, he talks like a president and so on. They don't even know what he stands for OMG!

Yes Iraq looks like it is getting better but its not. What the hell is Turkey up to. We can't win there civil war they have too. It's sad to say but the ones we want to win may not win. Who really cares anyway they all hate us. I say let them kill themselves.

Iran has been sending its own troops over there to drag this thing out. Pure act of war!! They want to break our economy financially that's also how you win wars. We simply can't afford to stay over there anymore. Unless we get the stupid democrats to unleash our military to do what they are trained to do and that's kill and destroy. Our military is not police officers!

As for social programs I hate them. If you want to see where this country is heading if the democrats? get their way, look at our liberal friends over in England they have tons of buildings with people living in them that have never worked a day in their life. I don't want to pay out of my pocket to help these losers out. I work too hard for my money to do this. As for healthcare just look at their teeth looks like a winner of a program to me. Hunting ya right! I have only met one person over there in three years that likes hunting and he was an 85 years old guide who runs a grouse hunting club. Guess how much it cost to hunt 12 birds 1200 pounds that equates to $2400 dollars for one day and 12 birds WTF!

The facts
We can't afford these social programs.
We need to fix our borders period.
We need to save our own money so we can retire some day.
The only thing I want my government to do is protect me from the other haters in this world. So our military needs to be strong.
Global warming is BS! How come Mars temperatures are rising also? Haven?t ever seen a picture of a car up there!

Any way I hate politics cant do anything but get mad when ever I talk about it. So it's best to just stay out. I am still a gun toten ultra conservative right wing republican hick. Some would label me as out there.
 
>I edited my post but recanted.
>WOW! I said it and
>I feel better for at
>least a day for doing
>so.
>
>F the Democrats Clinton will never
>be president no matter how
>much the press wants you
>to believe. Half the US
>is women and they can't
>stand her. The real threat
>is Osama Hussein Bama. I
>can't believe how many women
>I have talked to that
>say he is cute, he
>talks like a president and
>so on. They don't even
>know what he stands for
>OMG!
>
>Yes Iraq looks like it is
>getting better but its not.
>What the hell is Turkey
>up to. We can't win
>there civil war they have
>too. It's sad to say
>but the ones we want
>to win may not win.
>Who really cares anyway they
>all hate us. I say
>let them kill themselves.
>
>Iran has been sending its own
>troops over there to drag
>this thing out. Pure act
>of war!! They want to
>break our economy financially that's
>also how you win wars.
>We simply can't afford to
>stay over there anymore. Unless
>we get the stupid democrats
>to unleash our military to
>do what they are trained
>to do and that's kill
>and destroy. Our military is
>not police officers!
>
>As for social programs I hate
>them. If you want to
>see where this country is
>heading if the democrats? get
>their way, look at our
>liberal friends over in England
>they have tons of buildings
>with people living in them
>that have never worked a
>day in their life. I
>don't want to pay out
>of my pocket to help
>these losers out. I work
>too hard for my money
>to do this. As for
>healthcare just look at their
>teeth looks like a winner
>of a program to me.
>Hunting ya right! I have
>only met one person over
>there in three years that
>likes hunting and he was
>an 85 years old guide
>who runs a grouse hunting
>club. Guess how much it
>cost to hunt 12 birds
>1200 pounds that equates to
>$2400 dollars for one day
>and 12 birds WTF!
>
>The facts
>We can't afford these social programs.
>
>We need to fix our borders
>period.
>We need to save our own
>money so we can retire
>some day.
>The only thing I want my
>government to do is protect
>me from the other haters
>in this world. So our
>military needs to be strong.
>
>Global warming is BS! How come
>Mars temperatures are rising also?
>Haven?t ever seen a picture
>of a car up there!
>
>
>Any way I hate politics cant
>do anything but get mad
>when ever I talk about
>it. So it's best to
>just stay out. I am
>still a gun toten ultra
>conservative right wing republican hick.
>Some would label me as
>out there.


As much as I'd like to, I can't find anything in what you said to argue with.

JB
 
swbuckmaster

We actually agree on many points, well just about all. I too get frustrated about politics, I can't stand the vast number of politicians. Self serving blowhards. Problems are usually never solved because of their own self interests. Lets nuke the Middle East and get it over. And then clean out the House and Senate.



Ransom

472e0db77a8e993d.jpg
 
Scott, I agree with you on everything but Iraq. We are making progress there, even with Turkey getting involved, which you can thanks the dems for making worse.

PRO
 
Things in Baghdad are getting slightly better, the national finance minister was wacked on the street today so hold those vacation plans for a bit.

Outside Baghdad things are not much if any better, in the Kurd region it's the worst it's been and Turkey has had enough. troop levels are being forced down because the military has no choice and most expect things will get worse as they go.


Are you watching Pakistan? it's a mess and it's what we hoped Iraq would become someday, wow isn't it great. Iraq may become a side show, Pakistan has nukes and lots of Al Qaida.
 
I must be crazy! All I want to hear is our troops scream la la la la la la la la la screw alla la after the midle east is turned to glass!
 
>Any way I hate politics cant
>do anything but get mad
>when ever I talk about
>it. So it's best to
>just stay out. I am
>still a gun toten ultra
>conservative right wing republican hick.
>Some would label me as
>out there.

swbuckmaster,and now you can add turtle hunter to that impressive list.

Dude and Tfinal can sit at my campfire anytime! Preferably together on the opposite side of the fire from me. LOL!

Eel
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-14-07 AT 01:47AM (MST)[p]It is written in a book of Wisdom... " It is better to walk by and tug on the ears of a strange dog than to meddle in a quarrel that is not your own."


This being said, I will defer to any, who would have interest, as to why my beliefs, and those of some of the people I know cannot be shoe horned into the term " RELIGION ".
I warn those who would accept, that I shall in no way use the logic of my own faculties, but will rely on the Wisdom of the BOOK which I have quoted. I do not judge, because I was not appointed a judge, I will ask you why you feel the way you do... I ask that you support it with any book of your choice. Please, Chapter and verse.. As I will endeavor to do the same so that you may verify, that which I have said, and read it for yourselves.
I realize that I may be stirring a hornets' nest here, but I will again refer to this same Book of Wisdom twice more in this letter.

"the Finer's pot for silver, the crucible for GOLD, but He judges the hearts of men."

{He loved the world,(read as all mankind)so much, that He sacrificed His only begotten Son, and whosoever believes in Him, (who he sent, and appointed as judge) shall not perish, but have Everlasting Life.} paraphrased from the Book.

It is out of supernatural love, that we are in a relationship, and not a religion.

I am about to take a new job, which will leave me little time to answer promptly, any who might respond and really wish to know more. For that I apologize, and ask you in advance, for patience. I mean to say that I will be away from steady access to a computer and time to respond might be a long time in coming, but better late than never.
I will relay to you 1) WHY, I am a schmuck and ill-deserving of a special reward.
2) WHY the man , whom I believe to be who he says he is, is worth listening to, and getting to know him better; is more valuable than winning the Lottery.
3) Why none of the problems that we are facing now, as a country, are really a result of the actions or inactions, of any political party. Or can be placed at the foot of one man, or his family of men.
4) Why none of the problems of this world, are solvable by men. I can tell you where and when man became worldy. And not dependant upon His Creator... < This last subject requires us to come to agreement on the previous three statements.
5) Where mankind is headed... What is to become of those that choose a different path. Why?
6) Why is He so concerned with us? For what purposes were we born? < { Granted, a little beyond what I can tell you, but I do know who can !!! }
I think this may be a good time to give you my email address, after all, this forum , might not be the best place to do this and I am not trying to get anyone in trouble, or do anything against the rules that I still do agree with, and will still abide by.
7) Sorry, I did not think of this one 'til just now...
WHY, I care WHAT YOU THINK, and why I refer to the Wisdom of someone else and NOT my own...
And it is late here on the East coast... So rather than go back and re- edit my previous message ^, and then try to make it all flow, I will have to ask you to forgive me, because I am going to paraphrase that same Book again for a 3RD and 4TH TIME.
(3) { Salvation is a free gift, it cannot be bought.. It cannot be earned... lest any man should boast. }
(4) " Pride goes before a fall. "

Most humbly submitted,
Scott
[email protected]
 
There can be no law written or denied, of any man, woman, or child, that goes against LOVE, or denies someone love... True love.
-S
 

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